Motor doping thread

[jyl]

The story that the rider and her father are telling, I gather, is that it was one of her former bikes, sold to a friend who she trains with, the friend brought it to the race and left it by the pits, the mechanics thought it was one of her bikes and put it with her race bikes (and prepped it for the race, in some accounts).

If this is true, the friend and the mechanic should be coming forward to corroborate. The friend should be explaining how he modified the bike and why he wasn't wondering where it had gone to, the mechanic should be saying where he found the bike and how he adjusted it to match the settings on her other bikes (everything would have been made identical, from bar tape and tires and pressures, to stem and seatpost setting and saddle setting) and why he was such a shoddy mechanic that he didn't notice the motor system, the extra 1.5 kg, the switch and battery.

Even if those bizarre circumstances are totally corroborated by everyone and no contrary evidence found, her story still leaves her guilty of motor doping, because the UCI's rule is strict liability for rider and team, for any illegal bike in or "on the margins" of the race, whether ridden in the race or not.

I would maybe take those circumstances, if proven, into consideration when determining her punishment and the team's punishment. Like maybe 1 year and SFR 50K for her. But if this turns out to be a fabrication, then the sky's the limit for her punishment. In my opinion. For the team, I'm unsure - depends on how much involvement the Belgian National Team had with its riders' equipment, mechanics, training, etc. But it has to be punished because teams and team managers have to be compelled to do everything possible to prevent, not just allow-but-deniably, motor doping.

 

[Robert21]

“That bike belongs to a friend of mine,” she said. “He trains along with us. He joined my brothers and my father. That friend joined my brother at the reconnaissance and he placed the bike against the truck but it’s identical to mine. Last year he bought it from me. My mechanics have cleaned the bike and put it in the truck. They must’ve thought that it was my bike. I don’t know how it happened.”

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/femke-van-den-driessche-denies-using-motor-at-cyclo-cross-world-championships/

These don't sound like the words of a 'poor helpless female' pushed into acting against her will by the men around her, as some on here seem to want to believe. They sound like the words of someone who knows exactly what they have been up to and is trying, as best as they can, to avoid the consequences.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught

Let's say that Cancellara, Contador, Froome, Hesjedal or any A level rider in the pro peloton actually did have a motor on their bike, but the story doesn't officially come out until a few years from now, and in the meantime, a lot of B, C, Amateurs and juniors guy busted for it. What should be done with the above mentioned riders, or anyone else for that matter? Not pointing fingers, but I am one of those that believes that where there is smoke, there has to be a fire. It's sort of like the Armstrong days, all his rivals were failing tests, being suspended, dropped from their teams, associated with suspicious teams/doctors/coaches and/or simply had their names thrown around, while Armstrong got way time and time again. There were A LOT of people who believed that Armstrong couldn't be doping. If cheating like this goes on at the lower levels, or levels that don't get much publicity, you have to wonder how much of it goes on higher up. Or perhaps I am completely clueless and have no idea what I am talking about.

 

[MarkvW]

Re: Re:

The life ban idea is awful. That's why it is absolutely perfect for the UCI.

The UCI blames everything on the riders. Teams are free to pressure the riders, without any consequence. Mechanical doping is a team sport. If the UCI comes down hard on a 19 year old girl and gently on her supportive team, then it is living down to all my expectations.

Let the filthy circus go on!

No, with life bans people will spill the beans out of anger and spite.

Snitches are useless unless other evidence backs them up. Make for good entertainment, though.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

The life ban idea is awful. That's why it is absolutely perfect for the UCI.

The UCI blames everything on the riders. Teams are free to pressure the riders, without any consequence. Mechanical doping is a team sport. If the UCI comes down hard on a 19 year old girl and gently on her supportive team, then it is living down to all my expectations.

Let the filthy circus go on!

No, with life bans people will spill the beans out of anger and spite.

Snitches are useless unless other evidence backs them up. Make for good entertainment, though.

Hamilton, Landis?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

“That bike belongs to a friend of mine,” she said. “He trains along with us. He joined my brothers and my father. That friend joined my brother at the reconnaissance and he placed the bike against the truck but it’s identical to mine. Last year he bought it from me. My mechanics have cleaned the bike and put it in the truck. They must’ve thought that it was my bike. I don’t know how it happened.”

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/femke-van-den-driessche-denies-using-motor-at-cyclo-cross-world-championships/

These don't sound like the words of a 'poor helpless female' pushed into acting against her will by the men around her, as some on here seem to want to believe. They sound like the words of someone who knows exactly what they have been up to and is trying, as best as they can, to avoid the consequences.

It sounds from the earlier quotes and interviews like she was caught unawares at first, and her dad was stalling on how they presented the story while they figured out what had happened, why it had gone wrong, and how to put their story forward.

We'll see.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

The life ban idea is awful. That's why it is absolutely perfect for the UCI.

The UCI blames everything on the riders. Teams are free to pressure the riders, without any consequence. Mechanical doping is a team sport. If the UCI comes down hard on a 19 year old girl and gently on her supportive team, then it is living down to all my expectations.

Let the filthy circus go on!

No, with life bans people will spill the beans out of anger and spite.

And no one would expect a 19-year-old to spite her father. I'm not a shrink, but based on reading her body language in the Sportza interview, she seems to be trying to separate herself from her father.
Life-long ban is way too much.
I'm not saying the two situations are the same, but I can't help but think of Genevieve Jeanson and her coach. It took years for her to come out and admit what was going on.

Geneviève Jeanson

#StockholmSyndrome

ok ok, I did not read the last para where you named GJ.

what was her coach husband called? Andre someone. some mofo

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught

Just saw the footage from the race. Wow. To my amateur eyes, that seemed egregious. Hard not to notice the way she accelerates and has no real problems keeping the pace up while everyone is rocking and rolling much more than she does. That's ridiculous and sad at the same time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv3CiyrRTMg

 

[blackcat]

Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught

Cyclists are used to dealing with the media reaction to a doping positive. An EPO positive for a 19yo female cyclocrosser would maybe get five posts on the forum. She'd return in two years' time, and she could continue to get reasonable results and be seen as a promising young rider and only those who looked into it would find the doping ban (same as with some like Ilaria Sanguinetti who broke out last year but has already had a suspension as a teenager that's been mostly forgotten) unless she started mauling the field in a particularly egregious fashion (Hanna Solovey says hi, btw). Maybe that it happened at the Worlds would make it a bigger deal, but by the time the sample had been analyzed we'd be a couple of weeks down the line, and that would be that. Not only is this the first time motorized doping has been found, but it's swift and immediate: the news is instant, because the cheating can be seen with the naked eye, and not in the Riccardo Riccò way where you could plainly see he was doped, but with the motor it can be seen literally. And because after a few years of speculation it's the first time this has been actually found, this has blown up too big for Femke to ever be able to make a return quietly. Also, the fact that it's now been shown that motorized doping is a thing, one teenager's lack of subtlety will raise the attention paid to this, people who'd been getting away with it suddenly can't because the heat is on, and so on. Just like how a lot of the people most angered by Sella talking were those who'd been using the same network as Priamo.

like I said, Spartacus should sue her and her father, cos not the spotlight falls squarely on him for 2011

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

“That bike belongs to a friend of mine,” she said. “He trains along with us. He joined my brothers and my father. That friend joined my brother at the reconnaissance and he placed the bike against the truck but it’s identical to mine. Last year he bought it from me. My mechanics have cleaned the bike and put it in the truck. They must’ve thought that it was my bike. I don’t know how it happened.”

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/femke-van-den-driessche-denies-using-motor-at-cyclo-cross-world-championships/

These don't sound like the words of a 'poor helpless female' pushed into acting against her will by the men around her, as some on here seem to want to believe. They sound like the words of someone who knows exactly what they have been up to and is trying, as best as they can, to avoid the consequences.

It sounds from the earlier quotes and interviews like she was caught unawares at first, and her dad was stalling on how they presented the story while they figured out what had happened, why it had gone wrong, and how to put their story forward.

We'll see.

hang on a sec, unless there was an automatic engagement when she hits 250 watts, and has previously been told to get to the front at the bottom of the koppenberg, then throw the hammer, HOW COULD SHE NOT HAVE BEEN IN IT UP TO HER OVARIES???

Occam's Razor says she is told to ride on the front heading onto the Koppenberg, take the spot in the gutter at the front of the group, then switch the switch to engage the motor, hammer the FTP, and go to 350watts with the motor.

That is how it happened.

(do you want my proof? I dont have it, but there is soooooo much whitenoise, even if my actual facts are incorrect, my narraritve has a higher truth to it, and no one can dispell this truth)

like the delgados said, this is Genevieve Jeanson all over again. It just aint her boyfriend/husband/coach, its her dad.

And if the dad is putting her on a motorised cross bike, he will be giving her a diet of androgens. This is a child abuse just like Marc Dutroux, even if she is of adult age. Get her out of his care. This is also like Mary Pierce's father Jim Pierce and coaching her inchoate alliterationz tennis career. "kill the b!tch"

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

The life ban idea is awful. That's why it is absolutely perfect for the UCI.

The UCI blames everything on the riders. Teams are free to pressure the riders, without any consequence. Mechanical doping is a team sport. If the UCI comes down hard on a 19 year old girl and gently on her supportive team, then it is living down to all my expectations.

Let the filthy circus go on!

No, with life bans people will spill the beans out of anger and spite.

Snitches are useless unless other evidence backs them up. Make for good entertainment, though.

snitches are smeared and thrown under the bus.

The papers of record are the gatekeepers, and will filter out any Mark Felt or Ellsberg or Snowden or Manning,
they are the exception that PROVES the rule. Not the exception to the rule.

Technology and the internet has changed things... to a degree. but, the NSA and its equivalent intelligence agencies in ROW and Beijing will probably have solved this and managed to unlock decryption with quantum computing powers in the next decades....

you get the bullet in the head if you are Anna Politkovskaya in Moscow, plata o plomo

 

[hfer07]

Re:

“That bike belongs to a friend of mine,” she said. “He trains along with us. He joined my brothers and my father. That friend joined my brother at the reconnaissance and he placed the bike against the truck but it’s identical to mine. Last year he bought it from me. My mechanics have cleaned the bike and put it in the truck. They must’ve thought that it was my bike. I don’t know how it happened.”

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/femke-van-den-driessche-denies-using-motor-at-cyclo-cross-world-championships/

That sentence there tells it all!! I mean- Pleeeaaasseee!! stop that BS and face the consequences
The whole mechanical doping to me is the new EPO era defended by a hardcore OMERTA enforced by teams & Bicycle manufacturers with the so called "customized bikes" and so called "exclusive contracts" like Pinarello and Specialized.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught

cheating is widely accepted in the peloton. It's what you sign up for when you (try to) become a pro.
Nothing's proven about Cancellara. The media can sell a Cance win as a win for clean cycling, the way they sell wins by (almost) any rider who hasn't been banned regardless of how suspicious they may be. Riders can continue to spout the clean cycling mantra and be a part of a péloton including Cancellara, regardless how disingenuous they may be. There may well have been motors in bikes for several years, but there's plausible deniability. Lefévère is on the record saying he thinks Cance used a motor. Whether he did or not remains open for debate. So Cance rides on, the issue comes up periodically but without a great deal of media attention being paid other than the same "nothing to see here, move along" that we got with Hesjedal, which similarly attracted attention for a bit then died down.

Femke has been caught with a motor in her bike. Nobody else has. Yet.

Cancellara was with Rogers as a Lefevre/Squinzi Mapei-Quickstep rider in 2002. I dont know what that means wrt professional loyalty but the aphorism about thieves is prolly more felicitous...

I think Usain Bolt is also buying from the clean cycling mantra. He holds himself out as an example to Clean Cycling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Oldermanish]

Re: Re:

That sentence there tells it all!! I mean- Pleeeaaasseee!! stop that BS and face the consequences
The whole mechanical doping to me is the new EPO era defended by a hardcore OMERTA enforced by teams & Bicycle manufacturers with the so called "customized bikes" and so called "exclusive contracts" like Pinarello and Specialized.[/quote]

First of all, it's unlikely anyone would "leave" a world-cup level bike leaning on anything, let alone mistake it for one that would look like it. Mechanics and riders know their bikes so it's hard to accept her explanation minus a confession by someone else.

As for manufacturer's being complicit: jeopardizing the value of an entire company to get a result seems like a very poor exposure/benefit ratio, even on the Tour level. You'd be paying from the Top down to cover up that level of fraud. I don't doubt some rider might try it but can't forsee a manufacturer wanting any part of it.

 

[Anaconda]

Video of father and Femke trying to explain what happened.

http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/videozone/sporten/2.25755/1.2560453

Father to me is a total disgrace. Why did he not haul in the owner of 'the' bike and put him in front of the cameras to explain instead of his daughter?! Worlds in home country, cycling mad family, maybe a rainbow jersey in the house; the possibility of a power over situation here seems all too real. Without excusing Femke, I do feel sad for her

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

@Oldermanish
You are right about manufacturers, I am sure. Only a wild conspiracy theorist would suspect that Wilier would risk their enviable reputation for a win by a young cyclo-cross rider.

 

[Oldermanish]

Re: Re:

@Oldermanish
You are right about manufacturers, I am sure. Only a wild conspiracy theorist would suspect that Wilier would risk their enviable reputation for a win by a young cyclo-cross rider.

I'll assume the worst and still suggest at manufacturer's insurance company would wreak legal havoc on them if they were traceably caught doing it. Unless the company was worth negative value, anyway. Not saying some employee of a bike company looking to make some cash wouldn't do it; that would be a logical starting point.
More likely a cash money geek dying to see what they could pull off and finding a willing/desperate rider.

 

[MarkvW]

Re: Re:

The life ban idea is awful. That's why it is absolutely perfect for the UCI.

The UCI blames everything on the riders. Teams are free to pressure the riders, without any consequence. Mechanical doping is a team sport. If the UCI comes down hard on a 19 year old girl and gently on her supportive team, then it is living down to all my expectations.

Let the filthy circus go on!

No, with life bans people will spill the beans out of anger and spite.

Snitches are useless unless other evidence backs them up. Make for good entertainment, though.

Hamilton, Landis?

Yes. Cross corroboration counts as other evidence.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

Video of father and Femke trying to explain what happened.

http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/videozone/sporten/2.25755/1.2560453

Father to me is a total disgrace. Why did he not haul in the owner of 'the' bike and put him in front of the cameras to explain instead of his daughter?! Worlds in home country, cycling mad family, maybe a rainbow jersey in the house; the possibility of a power over situation here seems all too real. Without excusing Femke, I do feel sad for her

I find this one to be the worst for that, really. She's breaking down in tears, and his body language is... not very supportive considering his daughter's hopes and dreams and potential livelihood are collapsing in a very public shame and humiliation in front of a national - and given the furore, world - audience. He almost looks bored, even annoyed when the interviewer asks her if she thinks her career is over, and she answers "yes" without a pause.

If she'd just taken EPO, none of this would be going on, and she could return a couple of years down the line and it'd be half-forgotten. Whoever was in charge of the deceit, him, her or another part of her team, it's not going to help anyone to go parading his daughter's shame around for the cameras.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Video of father and Femke trying to explain what happened.

http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/videozone/sporten/2.25755/1.2560453

Father to me is a total disgrace. Why did he not haul in the owner of 'the' bike and put him in front of the cameras to explain instead of his daughter?! Worlds in home country, cycling mad family, maybe a rainbow jersey in the house; the possibility of a power over situation here seems all too real. Without excusing Femke, I do feel sad for her

I find this one to be the worst for that, really. She's breaking down in tears, and his body language is... not very supportive considering his daughter's hopes and dreams and potential livelihood are collapsing in a very public shame and humiliation in front of a national - and given the furore, world - audience. He almost looks bored, even annoyed when the interviewer asks her if she thinks her career is over, and she answers "yes" without a pause.

If she'd just taken EPO, none of this would be going on, and she could return a couple of years down the line and it'd be half-forgotten. Whoever was in charge of the deceit, him, her or another part of her team, it's not going to help anyone to go parading his daughter's shame around for the cameras.

The father just seems so super smug. Like a mafia member. It seems like he's done this before, gone through the same routine and probably will do something similar if given the chance in the future. I only feel sorry for her that she 'may' genuinely feel sorry, probably sorry that she got caught, but it seems like a normal human reaction. At 19, she's more than old enough to realize what has transpired and the consequences, but not sure if she was capable of saying no to the pressure of cheating by her father. Another thing that would be good to know is how long this has been going on, and whether she too, like her brother, took EPO and/or other PED's. Wouldn't be shocked, to be honest.

 

[hfer07]

Re: Re:

That sentence there tells it all!! I mean- Pleeeaaasseee!! stop that BS and face the consequences
The whole mechanical doping to me is the new EPO era defended by a hardcore OMERTA enforced by teams & Bicycle manufacturers with the so called "customized bikes" and so called "exclusive contracts" like Pinarello and Specialized.

First of all, it's unlikely anyone would "leave" a world-cup level bike leaning on anything, let alone mistake it for one that would look like it. Mechanics and riders know their bikes so it's hard to accept her explanation minus a confession by someone else.

As for manufacturer's being complicit: jeopardizing the value of an entire company to get a result seems like a very poor exposure/benefit ratio, even on the Tour level. You'd be paying from the Top down to cover up that level of fraud. I don't doubt some rider might try it but can't forsee a manufacturer wanting any part of it.

firs paragraph- I agreed.
2nd paragraph- the bold part: but isn't that a complicated operation at all and manufacturers don't have to be liable for it--- The team's DC's & mechanics simply ask for a "wider bottom bracket, a wider down tube" and internal cable routing" etc to meet their needs- that's all

 

[hrotha]

At 19, she's old enough to have understood the gravity of what she was doing and to face the consequences now, but it's only natural to pity someone when you see them like this, because most of us aren't total sociopaths (you can tell because very few of us are professional cyclists).

 

[Maxiton]

I still lurk here once in awhile, but I stopped following the sport a few years ago when it hit me that this is going on - to what extent who knows, but going on - in the peloton. Doping your body so as to gain an edge on competitors is one thing. Putting a motor in the downtube is another thing altogether. If some riders are doing the latter, it means there is no competition. I stopped following the sport when I realized there was no longer any sport to follow. What we have instead is a sham, a scam, and a farce.

If the UCI wanted to, they could stop this practice dead in its tracks. Start at the top, for starters - a big name rider and team, so that everyone knows you mean business (not some minute nobody like this poor deluded girl and her scum of a father. When the UCI responds to a cheating scandal in the way they have here, by sacrificing a minor actor - and when have they ever responded any other way? - it's a sign they intend to do FA). If the UCI were serious, the sanctions for mechanical doping would already be written: lifetime bans for all concerned - mechanics, managers, riders - and permanent revocation of license.

Instead, the UCI starts (and likely ends) at the bottom and with a light sanction: six months, if I'm not mistaken. In any event, counting on the UCI to do the right thing for cycling is like putting ENRON in charge of the economy. Meanwhile, for cyclesport I look to my local races, nowhere else, because there is nowhere else to find it.

 

[Merckx index]

Re: Re:

I find this one to be the worst for that, really.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone show the signs of guilt more clearly than the father in this video. This could be a textbook example of how (poor, inexperienced) liars act when they're caught--don't make eye contact with the questioner or with your accomplice. Keep your head down, don't say anything, pretend to be thinking of something else.

At least I'll give him a little credit, though. Unlike LA at SCA (or Trump any number of times), when challenged he didn't double down, going on the offensive, insisting on his and his daughter's innocence. He could have emphasized that gave-it-to-a-friend story, expressed indignation that his daughter was being wrongly accused, gotten angry. It may be a weak story, but the fact that she didn't actually ride the bike during the race has to help a little. He could have said, we understand that she is technically guilty, she'll take her punishment, but she never rode that bike or never would, this is an outrage, it never should have happened, etc.

That's what LA would have done. The only other explanation for her father's behavior I could buy is that he knew nothing about it, his daughter confessed to him just before the interview that she did it, and he's totally disgusted with her, but isn't going to make it any worse for her at this point.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

I still lurk here once in awhile, but I stopped following the sport a few years ago when it hit me that this is going on - to what extent who knows, but going on - in the peloton. Doping your body so as to gain an edge on competitors is one thing. Putting a motor in the downtube is another thing altogether. If some riders are doing the latter, it means there is no competition. I stopped following the sport when I realized there was no longer any sport to follow. What we have instead is a sham, a scam, and a farce.

If the UCI wanted to, they could stop this practice dead in its tracks. Start at the top, for starters - a big name rider and team, so that everyone knows you mean business (not some minute nobody like this poor deluded girl and her scum of a father. When the UCI responds to a cheating scandal in the way they have here, by sacrificing a minor actor - and when have they ever responded any other way? - it's a sign they intend to do FA). If the UCI were serious, the sanctions for mechanical doping would already be written: lifetime bans for all concerned - mechanics, managers, riders - and permanent revocation of license.

Instead, the UCI starts (and likely ends) at the bottom and with a light sanction: six months, if I'm not mistaken. In any event, counting on the UCI to do the right thing for cycling is like putting ENRON in charge of the economy. Meanwhile, for cyclesport I look to my local races, nowhere else, because there is nowhere else to find it.

Welcome back! Seems like you need to lurk more often and speak your mind, you make some good points.