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Motor doping thread

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Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

Beech Mtn said:
thehog said:
red_flanders said:
thehog said:
Take a look at Froome's right hand in this video compared to the other riders and his left hand.

Power assisted motor? :eek:

https://twitter.com/trudgin/status/873905662119620621

Honestly, this is the first footage I've seen that indicated something clearly suspicious. Not that I doubt there have been motors used on occasion, just haven't seen anything that made me think, "There! That rider is using one now."

That's really tough to explain otherwise. Question is how can a bike with an obvious adjustment dial like this not be a massive risk for getting caught out.

It's very odd, as it has been suggested he could be changing gears but his cadence remains relatively the same and you wouldn't change gears 37 times in 90 seconds. Another explanation was the new Garmin firmware allows you to scroll through the screens with the Di2 button, however when at threshold as Froome was you wouldn't be scrolling through 87 screens. My thought is he is using a incremental power assist, gentle increases of 2w each button press to make it look less obvious than his Ventoux sham.

If you watch the entire stage when Froome doesn't do the thing again even when Porte catches and passes him.

As I said, nothing with Froome ever adds up, he is odd in all shapes and forms.

Last 40km here; http://www.steephill.tv/players/youtube3/?title=On-Demand+Broadcast+from+Stage+8,+Last+45+Km&dashboard=criterium-du-dauphine-libere&id=EowqgqkwAog&yr=2017

The scrolling through screens notion seems plausible, particularly if Dawg's equipment isn't working properly and he can't get it to change to the display he wants to look at. He's so glued to that thing; I could see Dawg manically pressing buttons over and over if his screen wasn't right.


The head unit can show multiple values or one value at time. He was pressing for well over a minute, it's not plausible that he spent all the time trying to get to the power value. Besides, you custom set your screens before you start and leave it there, current power, avg. power, cadence and time is where you leave it. There's no need for any other values until after the ride during analysis. Additionally to all of this he makes that odd swipe and downward motion across the hood as he completes his all out effort and returns to the top bars. All very strange.
 
Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

sniper said:
And "massive risk"? Not really.
Last time I checked there's about 0.001 percent chance of getting caught with a motor.

*Edited by King Boonen: Please don't imply that riders have been caught using motors when they haven't.

Please also don't imply you have any idea what the risk of getting caught with a motor is, or that it has much to do with my post. My post said it would be hard to imagine some dial on the brake hood, as part of a motor, would be massively risky since it would be obvious to anyone looking at the bike.

I'll wager whatever motors have existed in the peloton don't have any glaringly obvious controls.
 
Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

red_flanders said:
sniper said:
And "massive risk"? Not really.
Last time I checked there's about 0.001 percent chance of getting caught with a motor.

*Edited by King Boonen: Please don't imply that riders have been caught using motors when they haven't.

Please also don't imply you have any idea what the risk of getting caught with a motor is, or that it has much to do with my post. My post said it would be hard to imagine some dial on the brake hood, as part of a motor, would be massively risky since it would be obvious to anyone looking at the bike.


I'll wager whatever motors have existed in the peloton don't have any glaringly obvious controls.

Maybe the motor engaged itself and Dawg was frantically trying to turn it off via the override button and alas he didn't really want to attack and put time into LRP :rolleyes:
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

red_flanders said:
sniper said:
And "massive risk"? Not really.
Last time I checked there's about 0.001 percent chance of getting caught with a motor.

*Edited by King Boonen: Please don't imply that riders have been caught using motors when they haven't.

Please also don't imply you have any idea what the risk of getting caught with a motor is, or that it has much to do with my post. My post said it would be hard to imagine some dial on the brake hood, as part of a motor, would be massively risky since it would be obvious to anyone looking at the bike.
The risk of getting caught is negligible. If you have evidence to the contrary, do share it.

I'll wager whatever motors have existed in the peloton don't have any glaringly obvious controls.
that's you overestimating the respect pro-riders have for the average cycling fan.

It's a bit like that 5th year university student who's blatantly peeking during the final exam.
The teacher thinks, nah, s/he can't possibly be peeking; s/he wouldn't possibl dare.
..And decides to ignore it..
Point in case: King Boonen (and basically the rest of the cycling-loving world) saying Roglic didn't get caught, hell, even censoring suggestions that he did get caught.

(@KB: what happened to simply replying to a post you disagree with? You really needed to edit that out? Oh well, never mind)
 
Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

sniper said:
red_flanders said:
sniper said:
And "massive risk"? Not really.
Last time I checked there's about 0.001 percent chance of getting caught with a motor.

*Edited by King Boonen: Please don't imply that riders have been caught using motors when they haven't.

Please also don't imply you have any idea what the risk of getting caught with a motor is, or that it has much to do with my post. My post said it would be hard to imagine some dial on the brake hood, as part of a motor, would be massively risky since it would be obvious to anyone looking at the bike.
The risk of getting caught is negligible. If you have evidence to the contrary, do share it.

I'll wager whatever motors have existed in the peloton don't have any glaringly obvious controls.
that's you overestimating the respect pro-riders have for the average cycling fan.

It's a bit like that 5th year university student who's blatantly peeking during the final exam.
The teacher thinks, nah, s/he can't possibly be peeking; s/he wouldn't possibl dare.
..And decides to ignore it..
Point in case: King Boonen (and basically the rest of the cycling-loving world) saying Roglic didn't get caught, hell, even censoring suggestions that he did get caught.

(@KB: what happened to simply replying to a post you disagree with? You really needed to edit that out? Oh well, never mind)
Sniper, it's very simple. You are absolutely free to claim that, in your view, the evidence makes it absolutely clear that Roglic was using a motor. You can even claim that you think it ridiculous that anyone disagrees.

What you cannot do is group him with Femke and claim he did get caught.

I did not censor a suggestion, I removed a claim that was false.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

King Boonen said:
sniper said:
red_flanders said:
sniper said:
And "massive risk"? Not really.
Last time I checked there's about 0.001 percent chance of getting caught with a motor.

*Edited by King Boonen: Please don't imply that riders have been caught using motors when they haven't.

Please also don't imply you have any idea what the risk of getting caught with a motor is, or that it has much to do with my post. My post said it would be hard to imagine some dial on the brake hood, as part of a motor, would be massively risky since it would be obvious to anyone looking at the bike.
The risk of getting caught is negligible. If you have evidence to the contrary, do share it.

I'll wager whatever motors have existed in the peloton don't have any glaringly obvious controls.
that's you overestimating the respect pro-riders have for the average cycling fan.

It's a bit like that 5th year university student who's blatantly peeking during the final exam.
The teacher thinks, nah, s/he can't possibly be peeking; s/he wouldn't possibl dare.
..And decides to ignore it..
Point in case: King Boonen (and basically the rest of the cycling-loving world) saying Roglic didn't get caught, hell, even censoring suggestions that he did get caught.

(@KB: what happened to simply replying to a post you disagree with? You really needed to edit that out? Oh well, never mind)
Sniper, it's very simple. You are absolutely free to claim that, in your view, the evidence makes it absolutely clear that Roglic was using a motor. You can even claim that you think it ridiculous that anyone disagrees.

What you cannot do is group him with Femke and claim he did get caught.

I did not censor a suggestion, I removed a claim that was false.
Yes I can understand that. Was reading the exchange and noticed that might not pass since this is a major Cycling News site.

I sorta hold the same opinion as sniper as in my opinion is that Roglic was using a motor.

With respect to the dawg. I also agree with irondan that it looked a bit "odd". Not sure I would go so far as to say he was scrolling pages on his computer.
 
Can we check videos of Froome riding pre Vuelta 2011? I ask that because he was practically an unknown rider up until that point and was in risk of not finding a pro contract for 2012. Thus I imagine very few will have many live recollections of his riding style.

Has he always had this ungainly riding style whereby he constantly moves his head up and down then looking at his stem? Has he always had the high cadence in the saddle style? A drastic change in riding style would lead me to believe that the use of a motor is highly likely.
 
Re:

ontheroad said:
Can we check videos of Froome riding pre Vuelta 2011? I ask that because he was practically an unknown rider up until that point and was in risk of not finding a pro contract for 2012. Thus I imagine very few will have many live recollections of his riding style.

Has he always had this ungainly riding style whereby he constantly moves his head up and down then looking at his stem? Has he always had the high cadence in the saddle style? A drastic change in riding style would lead me to believe that the use of a motor is highly likely.
Here are a couple of videos from his debut year in 2008 at the Tour de France (his first major stage race)

The infamous Ricco stage. On the attack at around 29.15, some classic stem staring at around 30.25. Earlier in the stage at around 24.20 he's struggling and riding like the standard spinning stem gazing Froome
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVebLm90Qcw

For a prolonged look - Croix de Fer, riding in sixth or seventh wheel in the GC group (start at maybe 17.45)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrAoI9U0s6Y

Apologies that neither of these show him struggling in the autobus as you would probably like, but they do show he's not changed his riding style much.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

Fair enough KB, thanks for expanding.

Great footage, Tienus. Pretty incredible, from that angle even more so.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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@ebandit, certainly some fair points.

as to those disgruntled employees.
Could Varjas be one?
But sure, if it's as widespread as me and a few others think it is, then yes, you'd probably expect at least one or two additional leaks in the course of time.
i think it's fair to say that either 'we' are wrong in claiming it is widespread, or the omerta is simply very very strong on this.
 
Feb 24, 2014
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Re:

ontheroad said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFxHD0P51-I

Ventoux 2013, the speed of Froome going around that bend in comparision to the other cyclists is mental. Can't pedal fast enough.


Ha ha, never seen that before... "Froomey" had great control to keep upright at that speed...

"she can't take anymore Dave" :lol:
 
Watching Froome ride a bike post 2011 reminds me very much of when I was a kid and my dad used to take me out on his tandem. The pedals would be driving my little legs rather than the other way round. My protests to him to stop pedaling so fast didn't tend to work and eventually I would have to concede defeat and cling on legs akimbo, trying to avoid my shins getting whacked
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Re:

@eyeballsout, nice one.

DanielSong39 said:
The interesting part is how the bike stays perfectly straight during his attack. Similar to Cancellara in the 2010 Tour of Flanders.

Sky crew must have pissed themselves laughing:

"Pete Kennaugh was laughing at the end of the stage," said Kerrison. "He said the way Chris rode that climb was exactly what we do in training every second day. Our training is much more than just doing intervals at a constant pace for a set amount of time; [some of it] is about being able to handle changes of pace – to go from, say, 350 watts to 650 watts for a few seconds to attack and get a gap on a rider who is trying to follow, then come back down to 350 watts."

Kerrison's term for this kind of interval training is spiked efforts, "where we make an effort then come back to a very high but sustainable pace. The energy systems have to have the ability to produce that power, which will produce a load of lactate in the muscle, because you are well above anaerobic threshold [the point at which the body is producing more than it can handle of the lactate which is the main limiting factor in intense efforts] – then come down to a very high level, just sub-threshold, and clean out the lactate, the effects of the attack. Pretty much all our training is based on that. The guys in the team who train that way look at [Froome's attack] and think, 'He's rehearsed that way of riding, three or four times a week for the last two years'."
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/jul/15/team-sky-chris-froome-tour-de-france
 
May 12, 2011
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Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

Irondan said:
sniper said:
thehog said:
Take a look at Froome's right hand in this video compared to the other riders and his left hand.

Power assisted motor? :eek:

https://twitter.com/trudgin/status/873905662119620621
I've seen Froome do it in other races too, and always whilst looking at his computer.

Would love to hear Jeroen Swart's explanation :lol:
I guess I would too.. @Jeroen?

I think it's a Shimano feature to control the Garmin screen.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/shimano-dura-ace-di2-levers-now-control-bike-computers/

That or some tic when he's on the limit.

It certainly isn't a motor switch. Otherwise the battery was flat.
 
May 12, 2011
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Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

red_flanders said:
sniper said:
And "massive risk"? Not really.
Last time I checked there's about 0.001 percent chance of getting caught with a motor.

*Edited by King Boonen: Please don't imply that riders have been caught using motors when they haven't.

Please also don't imply you have any idea what the risk of getting caught with a motor is, or that it has much to do with my post. My post said it would be hard to imagine some dial on the brake hood, as part of a motor, would be massively risky since it would be obvious to anyone looking at the bike.

I'll wager whatever motors have existed in the peloton don't have any glaringly obvious controls.

I love how Sniper pulls these "facts" out of thin air. He's never been one to let the truth get in his way.
 
Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

Jeroen Swart said:
Irondan said:
sniper said:
thehog said:
Take a look at Froome's right hand in this video compared to the other riders and his left hand.

Power assisted motor? :eek:

https://twitter.com/trudgin/status/873905662119620621
I've seen Froome do it in other races too, and always whilst looking at his computer.

Would love to hear Jeroen Swart's explanation :lol:
I guess I would too.. @Jeroen?

I think it's a Shimano feature to control the Garmin screen.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/shimano-dura-ace-di2-levers-now-control-bike-computers/

That or some tic when he's on the limit.

It certainly isn't a motor switch. Otherwise the battery was flat.
No doubt.. :D

I buy that, thanks for the response!
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

Jeroen Swart said:
red_flanders said:
sniper said:
And "massive risk"? Not really.
Last time I checked there's about 0.001 percent chance of getting caught with a motor.

*Edited by King Boonen: Please don't imply that riders have been caught using motors when they haven't.

Please also don't imply you have any idea what the risk of getting caught with a motor is, or that it has much to do with my post. My post said it would be hard to imagine some dial on the brake hood, as part of a motor, would be massively risky since it would be obvious to anyone looking at the bike.

I'll wager whatever motors have existed in the peloton don't have any glaringly obvious controls.

I love how Sniper pulls these "facts" out of thin air. He's never been one to let the truth get in his way.
Truth is motors are out there.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

Jeroen Swart said:
Irondan said:
sniper said:
thehog said:
Take a look at Froome's right hand in this video compared to the other riders and his left hand.

Power assisted motor? :eek:

https://twitter.com/trudgin/status/873905662119620621
I've seen Froome do it in other races too, and always whilst looking at his computer.

Would love to hear Jeroen Swart's explanation :lol:
I guess I would too.. @Jeroen?

I think it's a Shimano feature to control the Garmin screen.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/shimano-dura-ace-di2-levers-now-control-bike-computers/

That or some tic when he's on the limit.

It certainly isn't a motor switch. Otherwise the battery was flat.
His Garmin must have been stuck on a 404 screen then. I did not realize they had any control button on the side though. :rolleyes:
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Yeah thanks for the response jeroen.
As for pulling facts out of thin air, your "just lost the fat" springs to mind.
Meanwhile on twitter froomes ventoux 2013 seated 'accelleration' is the running joke of the day. Every day. Any thoughts on that? A hoax maybe?
 
Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

sniper said:
red_flanders said:
sniper said:
And "massive risk"? Not really.
Last time I checked there's about 0.001 percent chance of getting caught with a motor.

*Edited by King Boonen: Please don't imply that riders have been caught using motors when they haven't.

Please also don't imply you have any idea what the risk of getting caught with a motor is, or that it has much to do with my post. My post said it would be hard to imagine some dial on the brake hood, as part of a motor, would be massively risky since it would be obvious to anyone looking at the bike.
The risk of getting caught is negligible. If you have evidence to the contrary, do share it.

I didn't say having a motor was massively risky, if you read, you can see that I make the point about some obvious external dial. Seems fairly straightforward logic to follow if one is so inclined.

sniper said:
red_flanders said:
I'll wager whatever motors have existed in the peloton don't have any glaringly obvious controls.
that's you overestimating the respect pro-riders have for the average cycling fan.

No, it's me stating the obvious about other riders and race officials.