Motor doping thread

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Feb 24, 2014
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sniper said:
Cannondale again.
Not sure which rider it is.

Rear wheel not very suspicious this time, imo.
But look at the front wheel. Difficult to get in focus, but it seems to be accelerating slightly after the crash.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L74PA-rkcjE

JV, dedicated his life to antidoping. I'm starting to understand how that should be read.
Not convincing IMO, if there was a motor on the front hub when that guy picks it up and places it against the barrier I would expect it to try and turn.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Why would you expect that?

Rumor has it that they're switched off/on by pushing a very simple wireless bluetooth button, which at TT's can be controlled from the follow car.
Maybe the mechanic has it in his hands when he jumps out of the car to fetch the bike.

Why does the mechanic even run to the bike first? Honest question, maybe it's normal to run to the bike first and only then attend to the rider, I don't know.

In any case, front wheel touches the ground when the mechanic picks it up, so if the mechanic has just switched off the motor, of course the wheel is going to stop spinning.

But fair enough, I'm not convinced either.
Hesjedal 2013 was more compelling.
 
Feb 24, 2014
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sniper said:
Why would you expect that? Do you know how these hub motors work?
Honest question.

Rumor has it that they're switched off/on by pushing a very simple wireless bluetooth button, which at TT's can be controlled from the follow car.
Maybe the mechanic has it in his hands when he jumps out of the car to fetch the bike.

Why does the mechanic even run to the bike first? Again, honest question.

In any case, front wheel touches the ground when the mechanic picks it up, so if the mechanic has just switched off the motor, of course the wheel is going to stop spinning.

But fair enough, I'm not convinced either.
Hesjedal 2013 was more compelling.
Not sure if that was a mechanic that went to pickup the bike???

Why would the car have control of the motor, surely the rider would know when they want the boost, also a motor on the frost hub may cause issues when cornering at speed and in the wet.

Have read somewhere (pure speculation) about a motor kicking in at a certain HR, so when the rider is under pressure the boost kicks in.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Maybe you just saw a prime example of the type of issues it can cause.

Also, as Benotti said the other day, maybe they don't want the rider to know he's riding with a motor.

Sad fact is we don't really know what tech they are working with.

All we have here is a wheel which is spinning fast post-crash (not impossible without motor, but curious nonetheless) and a mechanic who is weirdly running to the bike before he gets to the rider.

It could be nothing, but your arguments against it don't cut it.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Have read somewhere (pure speculation) about a motor kicking in at a certain HR, so when the rider is under pressure the boost kicks in.
Yes, this is very likely to have been used at some point by certain riders. Froome 2013 being the most obvious case in point.
But it's highly unlikely to be the only system out there. More like one of many.
 
Feb 24, 2014
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sniper said:
Maybe you just saw a prime example of the type of issues it can cause.

Also, as Benotti said the other day, maybe they don't want the rider to know he's riding with a motor.

Sad fact is we don't really know what tech they are working with.

All we have here is a wheel which is spinning fast post-crash (not impossible without motor, but curious nonetheless) and a mechanic who is weirdly running to the bike before he gets to the rider.

It could be nothing, but your arguments against it don't cut it.
If you are using that video as some form of proof of motor doping then you are burning the matches of your credibility. Better get something more substantive.

PS I believe that there is some form of motor doping but that does not look suspicious.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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"some sort of proof".
Is this a case of - Poster gets owned - Poster starts putting words in other poster's mouth?
I hope not.

Credibility is not a relevant category here. If you find me uncredible, I can live with that.
It has zero bearing on what we see or don't see in that clip.
 
There is nothing suspicious in that clip. The bike and wheels behave exactly as one would expect. The wheels stop moving at the exact instant they touch the ground. Ridiculous.

sniper said:
Why does the mechanic even run to the bike first? Honest question, maybe it's normal to run to the bike first and only then attend to the rider, I don't know
You should watch a few bike races at some point.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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red_flanders said:
There is nothing suspicious in that clip. The bike and wheels behave exactly as one would expect. The wheels stop moving at the exact instant they touch the ground. Ridiculous.
Fair enough.
You should watch a few bike races at some point.
You still think that what your watching is bike racing? I noticed before that when it's a touchy subject for you, you tend to get personal. Oh well.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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ebandit said:
...of course the bike was moved ..pronto!

how long 'til the next rider passes...........

Mark L
hadn't thought of that. cheers. :)

And poor Hesjedal. Remains unchallenged nr 1 on the suspicion index of dodgy spinning wheels.
 
Re: Re:

sniper said:
red_flanders said:
There is nothing suspicious in that clip. The bike and wheels behave exactly as one would expect. The wheels stop moving at the exact instant they touch the ground. Ridiculous.
Fair enough.
You should watch a few bike races at some point.
You still think that what your watching is bike racing? I noticed before that when it's a touchy subject for you, you tend to get personal. Oh well.
Not sure why you think this topic is touchy for me, or why such speculation wouldn't be also "personal". Fairly ironic, no? I notice upthread you claim to have "owned" another poster. Not personal? Certainly self-aggrandizing and inaccurate.

I simply was amazed that you didn't know that the mechanics invariably go for the bike, not the rider, for obvious reasons. Seems to indicate you don't watch a lot of racing. I'd speculate that your analysis might be more rooted in reality if you had some history of racing or watching it closely. Maybe not. Regardless, posting this video in the context of motor-doping is absurd.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Red, you're using the word "to claim" in cases where it doesn't apply. ;-)
Same for the word "proof" as used by deeno on previous page.
If we use these words inflationary(ly?), they loose meaning. (think of Sky/UCI using the word "independent" inflationarily, too.)

As for one poster owning another, I think ebandit just owned me.
And I hope you agree there's no need to get all touchy about it.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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red_flanders said:
sniper said:
@deeno: wrt the potential issues a motor can cause such as oversteering, not just in corners but also on the straight, watch this vid from ca. 0:50 onwards and let me know what you think:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPt9tsnzXLc
Do you see the object in the road he's trying to avoid?
Hm...Good spot.
There's something white on the road just before he goes down, not sure if it's an object, or something written on the road. I still think it looks a bit weird, the fact that his rear wheel gets underneath him, but admittedly that white thing might have been the primary cause. Difficult to tell.

I remember seeing a similar crash of a rider during a TTT, but don't remember which team and race it was.
The guy fell on the straight, and afterwards told journalists that he had no idea what caused it.
Anybody know what I'm referring to?
 
Re: Re:

sniper said:
red_flanders said:
sniper said:
@deeno: wrt the potential issues a motor can cause such as oversteering, not just in corners but also on the straight, watch this vid from ca. 0:50 onwards and let me know what you think:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPt9tsnzXLc
Do you see the object in the road he's trying to avoid?
Hm...Good spot.
There's something white on the road just before he goes down, not sure if it's an object, or something written on the road. I still think it looks a bit weird, the fact that his rear wheel gets underneath him, but admittedly that white thing might have been the primary cause. Difficult to tell.


White object appears, he swerves and crashes. Not difficult to tell at all.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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thanks, nicely done.
I'm not convinced though, that swerving can explain the type of crash we're seeing.
Why is his rear wheel getting underneath him?
Swerving around an object, then falling, looks differently, I think.
To be honest, even in slowmo, I don't see him making any kind of 'swerving' motion or movement.

But fair enough, if there's an object on the road right in his line, it may have (co-)caused the crash.
 
Re: Re:

red_flanders said:
sniper said:
red_flanders said:
sniper said:
@deeno: wrt the potential issues a motor can cause such as oversteering, not just in corners but also on the straight, watch this vid from ca. 0:50 onwards and let me know what you think:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPt9tsnzXLc
Do you see the object in the road he's trying to avoid?
Hm...Good spot.
There's something white on the road just before he goes down, not sure if it's an object, or something written on the road. I still think it looks a bit weird, the fact that his rear wheel gets underneath him, but admittedly that white thing might have been the primary cause. Difficult to tell.


White object appears, he swerves and crashes. Not difficult to tell at all.
Also possible that he had front fork or wheel failure, notice that the front wheel flies off immediately. There much not to like about Menchov but I'm not yet ready to add motorization to that list...
 
Jan 30, 2016
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The Landis bike change from 1:18:24
https://youtu.be/KprgGpONdik?t=1h18m24s

Phill Ligett thinks its pre planned.

Just after this from around 1:20 Robby Ventura (ex us postal rider and coach of Landis) is being asked some questions. Ligget critical as allways asks about the bike change.

"It looked like there was possibly something wrong with the way he threw it down but but maybe it was just a set light a lighter set of wheels or maybe ehh something lighter"

I wonder why he is stuttering.
Then when Phil suggests he changed because he needs different gears and might change his bike back again Robby replies that its possible.


Floyd was using a Cyclops powertap rear hub pre and post bike change.
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/sponsors/graber/graber04/photos/powertap/?id=powertap
A motor would have fitted in that hub similar to this 2007 bike:
http://evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1111
The Schwinn e-bikes all minimize their electric nature. Lithium polymer batteries are hidden in pseudo gas tanks or tucked in small, flat packages under a rear rack. The hub motor on the front wheel is unobtrusive. The designers even hid the electric wiring in the fork tubes in their effort to keep their products looking like normal bikes.
 
Jan 30, 2016
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I remember seeing a similar crash of a rider during a TTT, but don't remember which team and race it was.
The guy fell on the straight, and afterwards told journalists that he had no idea what caused it.
Anybody know what I'm referring to?
Zabriski 2005 tour ttt perhaps?
I can't explain the crash. It looks like god pushed me over. My wheels didn't touch another rider's
 

Irondan

Administrator
Moderator
Re: Re:

red_flanders said:
sniper said:
@deeno: wrt the potential issues a motor can cause such as oversteering, not just in corners but also on the straight, watch this vid from ca. 0:50 onwards and let me know what you think:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPt9tsnzXLc
Do you see the object in the road he's trying to avoid?
Not to mention that TT bikes are notoriously difficult to handle.

I don't trust Denis Menchov for anything, and he probably would have used a motor were it available to him but in this case, the rough tarmac combined with an object in the road and a terrible handling bike are what most likely caused Menchov to go down this time.
 
Jan 6, 2017
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Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

No chance. One it's technologically a bit a bit mad, something small enough to fit in a bike and not be detected, but generate enough power to sustain a 197 km bike ride. Most Electric cars can't do that, and definitely not in 06.

Wrong tree
 
Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

Vayerism said:
No chance. One it's technologically a bit a bit mad, something small enough to fit in a bike and not be detected, but generate enough power to sustain a 197 km bike ride. Most Electric cars can't do that, and definitely not in 06.
Correct

But he changed bikes.
 
Feb 21, 2017
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Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

Vayerism said:
No chance. One it's technologically a bit a bit mad, something small enough to fit in a bike and not be detected, but generate enough power to sustain a 197 km bike ride. Most Electric cars can't do that, and definitely not in 06.

Wrong tree
I think the going theory is that a motor (due to lack of battery efficiency) is only used in spurts or certain situations as opposed to over the course of an entire race.
 

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