- Mar 13, 2013
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No other manufacture is on a TV show claiming riders are using their products, so not sure who else you can focus on other than the man that says he invented all this back in Armstrong's days?
Essentially you're saying Varjas is happy for his magic wheels and technology to be filmed live racing all over Europe for hundreds of hours and broadcast all around the globe to millions of people to witness working, yet he is not wanting to show exactly the same thing on TV himself to a TV documentary claiming they are also used in those races because the technology hasn't yet trickled down to consumers yet? WTF Dude?
Essentially you're saying Varjas is happy for his magic wheels and technology to be filmed live racing all over Europe for hundreds of hours and broadcast all around the globe to millions of people to witness working, yet he is not wanting to show exactly the same thing on TV himself to a TV documentary claiming they are also used in those races because the technology hasn't yet trickled down to consumers yet? WTF Dude?
Re: Re:
No he's not. There are several other public comments made by others as referred to earlier which you continue to ignore. Perhaps you will begin to attack their personal credentials also instead of focussing on what they have actually said. And stop coming up with useless analogies, which bear no relevance.
The continual absolute certainty that you appear to hold that motor's do not exist are making me believe that you have some vested interest in this area. Do you?
Parker said:
No he's not. There are several other public comments made by others as referred to earlier which you continue to ignore. Perhaps you will begin to attack their personal credentials also instead of focussing on what they have actually said. And stop coming up with useless analogies, which bear no relevance.
The continual absolute certainty that you appear to hold that motor's do not exist are making me believe that you have some vested interest in this area. Do you?
Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught
new orbea ebike out with a pretty stealthy looking hub motor...
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/orbea-gain-e-bikes-dont-look-like-e-bikes-50761/
new orbea ebike out with a pretty stealthy looking hub motor...
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/orbea-gain-e-bikes-dont-look-like-e-bikes-50761/
Re: Re:
I'm not attacking Lappartient. He can do as he pleases. If he wants to spend big money on big machines - fine. My point is, and always has been, is that he's only made a big fuss about it since running for election. He's had four years to do something and hasn't, which suggests to be me he doesn't believe it's a real problem and it's just an electioneering gambit. If he gets elected (more likely 2021 than 2017) I bet he does sod all about it.ontheroad said:
- May 26, 2010
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Re:
If you are looking to Varjas as the sole source for motors and remember he has been touting this story for a while without being sued, he has cred. If he had no cred, then he would not be getting the limelight and this story would have died with the laughter of the sport. Again i repeat, no one will listen to Varjas unless he can back it up and they also can back up what he is saying from other independent sources. Just because those sources are still anonymous is not important.
My guess is Varjas no longer supplies pro teams and is setting himself up to sell to others and using the publicity to drum up business. If Varjas was dealing with pro teams he would not be on TV.
samhocking said:
If you are looking to Varjas as the sole source for motors and remember he has been touting this story for a while without being sued, he has cred. If he had no cred, then he would not be getting the limelight and this story would have died with the laughter of the sport. Again i repeat, no one will listen to Varjas unless he can back it up and they also can back up what he is saying from other independent sources. Just because those sources are still anonymous is not important.
My guess is Varjas no longer supplies pro teams and is setting himself up to sell to others and using the publicity to drum up business. If Varjas was dealing with pro teams he would not be on TV.
- May 26, 2010
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“No one knows exactly how widespread this problem is, but it is very serious. The words of ASO director Christian Prudhomme are important. He said that greater efforts must be made to tackle this problem.”
“Our information is that this is a very real possibility. We don’t have any firm evidence but we are absolutely aware that these products are out there and that it is a possibility,” Brian Cookson told CyclingTips in an exclusive interview conducted on Thursday.
These people think this is serious and a real possibility, but you guys don't.
Remember a pro cyclist was caught using a motor. Most CXers race road during the CX off season.
A grandfondo rider was caught and claimed he bought the bike of a pro.
Parker said:
“No one knows exactly how widespread this problem is, but it is very serious. The words of ASO director Christian Prudhomme are important. He said that greater efforts must be made to tackle this problem.”
“Our information is that this is a very real possibility. We don’t have any firm evidence but we are absolutely aware that these products are out there and that it is a possibility,” Brian Cookson told CyclingTips in an exclusive interview conducted on Thursday.
These people think this is serious and a real possibility, but you guys don't.
Remember a pro cyclist was caught using a motor. Most CXers race road during the CX off season.
A grandfondo rider was caught and claimed he bought the bike of a pro.
- May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/other-sports/team-gbs-brilliant-but-broken-bikes-mean-riders-will-be-on-old-frames-at-world-championships-a3504616.html
http://road.cc/content/news/220200-team-gb-race-old-bikes-after-all-cervélo-rio-models-break
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-4366064/GB-ride-13-year-old-bikes-Track-World-Championships.html
Craigee said:
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/other-sports/team-gbs-brilliant-but-broken-bikes-mean-riders-will-be-on-old-frames-at-world-championships-a3504616.html
http://road.cc/content/news/220200-team-gb-race-old-bikes-after-all-cervélo-rio-models-break
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-4366064/GB-ride-13-year-old-bikes-Track-World-Championships.html
Re: Re:
Weighing the bikes, dismantling the bikes do not require big money and the UCI is a cash rich organisation. If cost is a detterent against introducing the check's then maybe anti-doping should be scaled back also. Surely for the viewpoint of the governing body, the entire integrity of the sport is more important than any potential cost in any case.
It could well be electioneering, but you haven't pointed out what part of his actual proposals you disagree with.
Parker said:
Weighing the bikes, dismantling the bikes do not require big money and the UCI is a cash rich organisation. If cost is a detterent against introducing the check's then maybe anti-doping should be scaled back also. Surely for the viewpoint of the governing body, the entire integrity of the sport is more important than any potential cost in any case.
It could well be electioneering, but you haven't pointed out what part of his actual proposals you disagree with.
- May 26, 2010
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A common part of the grupetto is holding onto cars. That Sky showed French riders doing it led to me that thought.
I have seen all teams riders hanging onto cars at Giro stages. Nothing new. Sky choosing to release a video of it is well timed.
https://twitter.com/Digger_forum/status/905437356123197440
Oh look a sky rider showing the same promise as Froome!!!!!
Parker said:
A common part of the grupetto is holding onto cars. That Sky showed French riders doing it led to me that thought.
I have seen all teams riders hanging onto cars at Giro stages. Nothing new. Sky choosing to release a video of it is well timed.
https://twitter.com/Digger_forum/status/905437356123197440
Oh look a sky rider showing the same promise as Froome!!!!!
Re: Re:
Here's one for now. Former 3 time tour winner Greg Lemond:
''Cycling weight is everything. Your body, your bike. If your bike weighs a kilo more, you would never race on it.''
In the 2015 Tour de France, bikes in the peloton were weighed before one of the time trial stages. French authorities told us the British Team Sky was the only team with bikes heavier than the rest—each bike weighed about 800 grams more. A spokesman for Team Sky said that during a time trial stage bikes might be heavier to allow for better aerodynamic performance. He said the team has never used mechanical assistance and that the bikes were checked and cleared by the sports governing body.
A heavy bike doesn’t prove anything on its own but to Greg LeMond the weight difference should have set off alarm bells. In this case, sources told us, the sport’s governing body would not allow French investigators to remove the Team Sky wheels and weigh them separately to determine if the wheels were enhanced. LeMond said not enough is being done by the International Cycling Union to prevent cheating with motors.
''This is curable. This is fixable. I don’t trust it until they figure out how to take the motor out. I won’t trust any victories of the Tour de France.''
If Lemond doesn't trust any victories of the tour then that's good enough for me. I'm not going to believe some anonymous armchair fan on an internet forum with a vested interest and an affiliation to team sky over a man with his finger on the pulse who has spoken to people on the inside including the police.
Parker said:
Here's one for now. Former 3 time tour winner Greg Lemond:
''Cycling weight is everything. Your body, your bike. If your bike weighs a kilo more, you would never race on it.''
In the 2015 Tour de France, bikes in the peloton were weighed before one of the time trial stages. French authorities told us the British Team Sky was the only team with bikes heavier than the rest—each bike weighed about 800 grams more. A spokesman for Team Sky said that during a time trial stage bikes might be heavier to allow for better aerodynamic performance. He said the team has never used mechanical assistance and that the bikes were checked and cleared by the sports governing body.
A heavy bike doesn’t prove anything on its own but to Greg LeMond the weight difference should have set off alarm bells. In this case, sources told us, the sport’s governing body would not allow French investigators to remove the Team Sky wheels and weigh them separately to determine if the wheels were enhanced. LeMond said not enough is being done by the International Cycling Union to prevent cheating with motors.
''This is curable. This is fixable. I don’t trust it until they figure out how to take the motor out. I won’t trust any victories of the Tour de France.''
If Lemond doesn't trust any victories of the tour then that's good enough for me. I'm not going to believe some anonymous armchair fan on an internet forum with a vested interest and an affiliation to team sky over a man with his finger on the pulse who has spoken to people on the inside including the police.
Re: Re:
Take a look at the video again. Varjas didn't want to show off the bubble-wrapped pro, labelled version, as used by one of the teams, but the Fraunhofer team did clearly show an x-ray of a hub motor that was placed at the freehub body. I'm sure you could imagine modifying a cassette and freehub body to contain the motor as shown. Electronics and battery would be in the frame. The claimed 40 Watts for 30 minutes is only two or three of these: http://www.molicel.com/hq/download/DM/DM_INR18650A-V3-80078.pdf The connections to the motor would be via ring contacts (or similar) at the dropout and axle.
I'm sure a room full of mechanical engineers could come up with plenty of design solutions of how to couple the motor or how to place it in a custom freehub body and casette module. I've already shown with off the shelf part specs that it's possible to get the required power out of a stepper motor with a similar volume. And yes, you would use a stepper motor because that way you don't need any gear reductions. Steppers have the highest torque at the lowest (i.e., normal bicycle wheel) rpm.
In other words, there's no skewer problem.
John Swanson
jmdirt said:
Take a look at the video again. Varjas didn't want to show off the bubble-wrapped pro, labelled version, as used by one of the teams, but the Fraunhofer team did clearly show an x-ray of a hub motor that was placed at the freehub body. I'm sure you could imagine modifying a cassette and freehub body to contain the motor as shown. Electronics and battery would be in the frame. The claimed 40 Watts for 30 minutes is only two or three of these: http://www.molicel.com/hq/download/DM/DM_INR18650A-V3-80078.pdf The connections to the motor would be via ring contacts (or similar) at the dropout and axle.
I'm sure a room full of mechanical engineers could come up with plenty of design solutions of how to couple the motor or how to place it in a custom freehub body and casette module. I've already shown with off the shelf part specs that it's possible to get the required power out of a stepper motor with a similar volume. And yes, you would use a stepper motor because that way you don't need any gear reductions. Steppers have the highest torque at the lowest (i.e., normal bicycle wheel) rpm.
In other words, there's no skewer problem.
John Swanson
Re: Re:
- It's obvious when they're in use, so when you see one rocking up on a race moto, shut off your motor
- They can only detect heat, so the motor must be in use to have any chance of detection
- There's an issue of protocol. If you see a weird heat signature, how do proceed? Stop the rider, confiscate their bike and ruin their race? What if you're wrong... Oops!
- Let's say you flag a rider for further inspection after the race. They still have puh-lenty of opportunity to switch bikes and get rid of the motorized version.
- How do you set a threshold of "too much heat"? Is it five degrees? Six degrees? 12 degrees?
And so on. However, it does have a deterrent affect much like seeing a police officer holding what looks to be a radar gun. It would also be hugely valuable to use not for enforcement, but intelligence gathering. You could try to discreetly follow the Tour with heat guns and try to get an idea of how many are in use.
John Swanson
Thermal cameras have many drawbacks:Parker said:
- It's obvious when they're in use, so when you see one rocking up on a race moto, shut off your motor
- They can only detect heat, so the motor must be in use to have any chance of detection
- There's an issue of protocol. If you see a weird heat signature, how do proceed? Stop the rider, confiscate their bike and ruin their race? What if you're wrong... Oops!
- Let's say you flag a rider for further inspection after the race. They still have puh-lenty of opportunity to switch bikes and get rid of the motorized version.
- How do you set a threshold of "too much heat"? Is it five degrees? Six degrees? 12 degrees?
And so on. However, it does have a deterrent affect much like seeing a police officer holding what looks to be a radar gun. It would also be hugely valuable to use not for enforcement, but intelligence gathering. You could try to discreetly follow the Tour with heat guns and try to get an idea of how many are in use.
John Swanson
- Jul 15, 2016
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Re: Re:
For example:
Dumoulin 9.03kg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP17D0Cndd8
Froome 8.52kg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc3zV4fTRGM
Castroviejo 8.29kg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRUGxMj-iko
So Dumoulin's is 800g heavier than Castroviejo's. Maybe Dumoulin is the one with the motor
Pop along to the GCN channel YouTube. They do videos about pro bikes which often includes weighing them. All the TT bikes are overweight.ontheroad said:
For example:
Dumoulin 9.03kg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP17D0Cndd8
Froome 8.52kg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc3zV4fTRGM
Castroviejo 8.29kg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRUGxMj-iko
So Dumoulin's is 800g heavier than Castroviejo's. Maybe Dumoulin is the one with the motor
- Jul 15, 2016
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Re: Re:
There's always the option of accepting that motors are part of bike racing and enjoying the sport for what it is. If you don't have a problem with that, that's AOK.
Parker said:
There's always the option of accepting that motors are part of bike racing and enjoying the sport for what it is. If you don't have a problem with that, that's AOK.
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