Motor doping thread

[adamfo]

Re: Re:

I've no idea what they are using in the tablets or it's accuracy. Do you ?

The x-ray images we've seen are pretty detailed and the Italian video of the IR images on the move look clear too. Hub and seat tube heat signatures.

Well, it's not going to be anywhere as good as purpose-built Gauss meter. http://www.magsys.de/index.php/en/products-and-services/hand-gaussmeter

If the front derailleur has a solenoid with a magnet having B = 0.1 T at 1 cm, then you would need better than 500 uT resolution to register the magnet at 5 cm. To discriminate between that magnet and a motor in close proximity, you'd need an accuracy and resolution of ~1 uT. <--- All back of the envelope calculations, so only good to an order of magnitude. This part is doable with an iPad. Now discriminating between two dipoles that are only a couple centimeters from one another? ehhhh. I don't think so. Now you need a sensor array to measure the direction of the flux density and not just the magnitude.

Think of it this way. You can use a wet finger to check if the wind is blowing. The wet finger method doesn't work so well if you want to tell if there's one fan, or two fans blowing. You need something like a weather vane to show which way the wind is blowing and then try to use that to discriminate between one fan or two.

So yeah. Either every bike with e-shifting gives a false positive or the iPads don't work. Either way, they can't tell whether a bike with e-shifting has a motor unless they use a different method.

John Swanson

You take the wheels out for the hub and rim check :idea:

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

It took a long time for UCI to introduce motor testing. It was a long time since the accusations were bandied about, RAI presented a bike during the Giro a few years ago and it is only this year that UCI have 'made a show'

Last years testing at the tour was pretty robust. Taking the bottom bracket out and using the human eyeball mk1.
In out of reach places an endoscope was used. The leaders bikes were taken apart numerous times much to the chagrin of the mechanics who had to but the bits back together again.
It's a non-story being pushed by those with an interest in selling such technology, by those trying to keep up their media profile like LeMonde and those in the conspiracy/moon hoax nutters camp

Then why does the UCI use an iPad that either doesn't work or gives a false positive for *every* bike with electronic shifting?

John Swanson

I've no idea what they are using in the tablets or it's accuracy. Do you ?

The x-ray images we've seen are pretty detailed and the Italian video of the IR images on the move look clear too. Hub and seat tube heat signatures.

No idea, yet you claim the testing is pretty robust!

 

[adamfo]

Re: Re:

It took a long time for UCI to introduce motor testing. It was a long time since the accusations were bandied about, RAI presented a bike during the Giro a few years ago and it is only this year that UCI have 'made a show'

Last years testing at the tour was pretty robust. Taking the bottom bracket out and using the human eyeball mk1.
In out of reach places an endoscope was used. The leaders bikes were taken apart numerous times much to the chagrin of the mechanics who had to but the bits back together again.
It's a non-story being pushed by those with an interest in selling such technology, by those trying to keep up their media profile like LeMonde and those in the conspiracy/moon hoax nutters camp

Then why does the UCI use an iPad that either doesn't work or gives a false positive for *every* bike with electronic shifting?

John Swanson

I've no idea what they are using in the tablets or it's accuracy. Do you ?

The x-ray images we've seen are pretty detailed and the Italian video of the IR images on the move look clear too. Hub and seat tube heat signatures.

No idea, yet you claim the testing is pretty robust!

Again you don't read posts properly, or deliberately misunderstand, I said .... "Last years testing at the tour was pretty robust"

 

[King Of Molehill]

Re: Re:

On the next sentences, well the first Stade 2 program was a farce

They made Brian aware of their specific suspiscions and he did nothing.

Does your tinfoil hat get hot? Why on earth would the UCI want to condone or cover-up motorised-cheat cycling? What's in it for Cookson? Catching motorised bike-cheats is trivially easy. There's nowhere to hide. The motors (even wheel mounted ones) are dead easy to detect (even without Lemond's "large arches"). They're going well above what is required in my view. The number of tests is more than adequate. I have no idea how you can still be convinced that the fix is in; that there is some huge conspiracy. There just isn't. Not everyone is lying to you.....

Thanks to Verbruggen and the UCI's behaviour over the past two decades there is enough to justify wild speculation, theories, doubt and mistrust by anyone who have followed the sport closely for that length of time.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/mar/09/lance-armstrong-uci-colluded-circ-report-cycling

In a perverted way, it's become more entertaining to speculate about the insanity that is professional cycling than watching the racing itself (see TDF 2016).

If you believe that H. Verbruggen and Lance Armstrong were in cahoots, at any time, in order to help further the business of cycling, which in my opinion is what happened, then I can't question anyone who might believe the same thing is happening now between Cookson, Brailsford and the rise of British cycling. It's completely plausible and worth questioning given the history of the sport and UCI.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Re:

I've no idea what they are using in the tablets or it's accuracy. Do you ?

The x-ray images we've seen are pretty detailed and the Italian video of the IR images on the move look clear too. Hub and seat tube heat signatures.

Well, it's not going to be anywhere as good as purpose-built Gauss meter. http://www.magsys.de/index.php/en/products-and-services/hand-gaussmeter

If the front derailleur has a solenoid with a magnet having B = 0.1 T at 1 cm, then you would need better than 500 uT resolution to register the magnet at 5 cm. To discriminate between that magnet and a motor in close proximity, you'd need an accuracy and resolution of ~1 uT. <--- All back of the envelope calculations, so only good to an order of magnitude. This part is doable with an iPad. Now discriminating between two dipoles that are only a couple centimeters from one another? ehhhh. I don't think so. Now you need a sensor array to measure the direction of the flux density and not just the magnitude.

Think of it this way. You can use a wet finger to check if the wind is blowing. The wet finger method doesn't work so well if you want to tell if there's one fan, or two fans blowing. You need something like a weather vane to show which way the wind is blowing and then try to use that to discriminate between one fan or two.

So yeah. Either every bike with e-shifting gives a false positive or the iPads don't work. Either way, they can't tell whether a bike with e-shifting has a motor unless they use a different method.

John Swanson

You take the wheels out for the hub and rim check :idea:

Well all good then. No way you could fool the iPad then... Did you give this more than 10 seconds of thought?

John Swanson

 

[jmdirt]

I don't trust the UCI any more than I trust the cheaters, but a lot of assumptions are being made here to "prove" rampant moto fraud (ie: how do you know what the iPad app is detecting?). Libertine makes some good points.

With doping you can limit those 'in the know' (even though everyone 'knows'), with moto fraud there are a lot of people involved and it seems like somebody would have slipped and spilled the beans by now.

"the UCI would cover it up because Pros need to be faster than everyone else...Pros need to both amaze the lay public and the enthusiastic amateur...however they need to keep the wages up of the club and so the peloton is treated differently (insider/outsider)....be it PEDs or motors there is an intrinsic incentive for the UCI to keep pros faster and stronger..........otherwise they are just guys who do a lot of miles"

:lol: TFH! If that makes you feel better, rock on!

 

[winkybiker]

Re: Re:

On the next sentences, well the first Stade 2 program was a farce

They made Brian aware of their specific suspiscions and he did nothing.

Does your tinfoil hat get hot? Why on earth would the UCI want to condone or cover-up motorised-cheat cycling? What's in it for Cookson? Catching motorised bike-cheats is trivially easy. There's nowhere to hide. The motors (even wheel mounted ones) are dead easy to detect (even without Lemond's "large arches"). They're going well above what is required in my view. The number of tests is more than adequate. I have no idea how you can still be convinced that the fix is in; that there is some huge conspiracy. There just isn't. Not everyone is lying to you.....

Thanks to Verbruggen and the UCI's behaviour over the past two decades there is enough to justify wild speculation, theories, doubt and mistrust by anyone who have followed the sport closely for that length of time.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/mar/09/lance-armstrong-uci-colluded-circ-report-cycling

In a perverted way, it's become more entertaining to speculate about the insanity that is professional cycling than watching the racing itself (see TDF 2016).

If you believe that H. Verbruggen and Lance Armstrong were in cahoots, at any time, in order to help further the business of cycling, which in my opinion is what happened, then I can't question anyone who might believe the same thing is happening now between Cookson, Brailsford and the rise of British cycling. It's completely plausible and worth questioning given the history of the sport and UCI.

Think of the size of the conspiracy you're proposing. It just isn't happening.

 

[winkybiker]

Re: Re:

I've no idea what they are using in the tablets or it's accuracy. Do you ?

The x-ray images we've seen are pretty detailed and the Italian video of the IR images on the move look clear too. Hub and seat tube heat signatures.

Well, it's not going to be anywhere as good as purpose-built Gauss meter. http://www.magsys.de/index.php/en/products-and-services/hand-gaussmeter

If the front derailleur has a solenoid with a magnet having B = 0.1 T at 1 cm, then you would need better than 500 uT resolution to register the magnet at 5 cm. To discriminate between that magnet and a motor in close proximity, you'd need an accuracy and resolution of ~1 uT. <--- All back of the envelope calculations, so only good to an order of magnitude. This part is doable with an iPad. Now discriminating between two dipoles that are only a couple centimeters from one another? ehhhh. I don't think so. Now you need a sensor array to measure the direction of the flux density and not just the magnitude.

Think of it this way. You can use a wet finger to check if the wind is blowing. The wet finger method doesn't work so well if you want to tell if there's one fan, or two fans blowing. You need something like a weather vane to show which way the wind is blowing and then try to use that to discriminate between one fan or two.

So yeah. Either every bike with e-shifting gives a false positive or the iPads don't work. Either way, they can't tell whether a bike with e-shifting has a motor unless they use a different method.

John Swanson

What bollocks. The electromagnetic actuator to move a FD cage is tiny compared to a motor needed for significant propulsive power. They can also be well away from the FD actuator when testing for the long, skinny motors in the seat-tubes or down-tubes. They can be within mm of the magnets in the motors and cm from the FD. The inverse-square law works for them here.

You're alleging a significant conspiracy where a failure in the testing of the iPad devices was covered up. I just don't buy it.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Bollocks, indeed. The force needed to move the front derailleur cage is quite large. Look at the first generation of actuators. They're huge. The magnets involved with the linear actuators are quite powerful. On the order of 1 Tesla (0.5 to 5 Tesla), I'm sure. And how far away from the seat tube is the FD? Right. About a centimeter. And, on axis, for a dipole where r >> A, the field falls off as 1/r^3 and not 1/r^2. For complex geometries, and close proximities you better be good at calculus or willing to take precise and detailed measurements.

An iPad... Pfffffft!

John Swanson

 

[winkybiker]

Re:

Bollocks, indeed. The force needed to move the front derailleur cage is quite large. Look at the first generation of actuators. They're huge. The magnets involved with the linear actuators are quite powerful. On the order of 1 Tesla (0.5 to 5 Tesla), I'm sure. And how far away from the seat tube is the FD? Right. About a centimeter. And, on axis, for a dipole where r >> A, the field falls off as 1/r^3 and not 1/r^2. For complex geometries, and close proximities you better be good at calculus or willing to take precise and detailed measurements.

An iPad... Pfffffft!

John Swanson

The iPad primarily serves as a display. The motors themselves are 10cm -20cm long, with every bit of that length needed to get the torque they need (given the small diameter). Detecting the very strong permanent magnets in these motors, in locations well away from FDs, is trivially easy with a coil and something to respond to the induced current (iPad).

But this is perhaps all speculation. What I just can't get is just how many corrupt and silent people (without one single whistleblower), with little incentive, are being suggested with these allegations of motor-cheating and a UCI cover-up. I mean...seriously?

 

[Tienus]

The first time someone saw or heard about the special UCI scanning device was on the morning of the race where Femke got caught. It looks like the device was only introduced to explain how they caught her.
Cooksen has been defending later that the Ipad was the best device and would catch all cheaters. There was even a demonstration for the press in May. The strange thing is that since ASO decided to use thermal cameras the UCI decided (I think it was the UCI) that the device was not enough and introduced the X-ray machine.

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Re:

Bollocks, indeed. The force needed to move the front derailleur cage is quite large. Look at the first generation of actuators. They're huge. The magnets involved with the linear actuators are quite powerful. On the order of 1 Tesla (0.5 to 5 Tesla), I'm sure. And how far away from the seat tube is the FD? Right. About a centimeter. And, on axis, for a dipole where r >> A, the field falls off as 1/r^3 and not 1/r^2. For complex geometries, and close proximities you better be good at calculus or willing to take precise and detailed measurements.

An iPad... Pfffffft!

John Swanson

The iPad primarily serves as a display. The motors themselves are 10cm -20cm long, with every bit of that length needed to get the torque they need (given the small diameter). Detecting the very strong permanent magnets in these motors, in locations well away from FDs, is trivially easy with a coil and something to respond to the induced current (iPad).

But this is perhaps all speculation. What I just can't get is just how many corrupt and silent people (without one single whistleblower), with little incentive, are being suggested with these allegations of motor-cheating and a UCI cover-up. I mean...seriously?

This was one one the points I made, but not even someone as serious as a whistle blower, just someone who had a few too many ales excitedly telling a group in a pub how cool the little motors are.

 

[buckle]

Re: Re:

Bollocks, indeed. The force needed to move the front derailleur cage is quite large. Look at the first generation of actuators. They're huge. The magnets involved with the linear actuators are quite powerful. On the order of 1 Tesla (0.5 to 5 Tesla), I'm sure. And how far away from the seat tube is the FD? Right. About a centimeter. And, on axis, for a dipole where r >> A, the field falls off as 1/r^3 and not 1/r^2. For complex geometries, and close proximities you better be good at calculus or willing to take precise and detailed measurements.

An iPad... Pfffffft!

John Swanson

The iPad primarily serves as a display. The motors themselves are 10cm -20cm long, with every bit of that length needed to get the torque they need (given the small diameter). Detecting the very strong permanent magnets in these motors, in locations well away from FDs, is trivially easy with a coil and something to respond to the induced current (iPad).

But this is perhaps all speculation. What I just can't get is just how many corrupt and silent people (without one single whistleblower), with little incentive, are being suggested with these allegations of motor-cheating and a UCI cover-up. I mean...seriously?

Ross Tucker has addressed this whistleblower theory and the apparent ease with which blowers are meant to whistle. It simply does not happen.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Re:

Bollocks, indeed. The force needed to move the front derailleur cage is quite large. Look at the first generation of actuators. They're huge. The magnets involved with the linear actuators are quite powerful. On the order of 1 Tesla (0.5 to 5 Tesla), I'm sure. And how far away from the seat tube is the FD? Right. About a centimeter. And, on axis, for a dipole where r >> A, the field falls off as 1/r^3 and not 1/r^2. For complex geometries, and close proximities you better be good at calculus or willing to take precise and detailed measurements.

An iPad... Pfffffft!

John Swanson

The iPad primarily serves as a display. The motors themselves are 10cm -20cm long, with every bit of that length needed to get the torque they need (given the small diameter). Detecting the very strong permanent magnets in these motors, in locations well away from FDs, is trivially easy with a coil and something to respond to the induced current (iPad).

But this is perhaps all speculation. What I just can't get is just how many corrupt and silent people (without one single whistleblower), with little incentive, are being suggested with these allegations of motor-cheating and a UCI cover-up. I mean...seriously?

It doesn't even take a conspiracy. You just give all these "inspectors" (UCI commissaires?) an iPad with a dongle hanging off it. You know they work like crap and go nuts whenever they're near an electric front derailleur. Perfect. Just tell the guys using the iPad that this is normal, doesn't indicate a motor, and to move along to the next bike.

And just so you know, the motors *can* have really strong rare earth magnets like the linear actuator, but field strength is only important in a motor if you want high static torque. If you design a motor for high rpm then you're probably going to size the magnets to get lowest winding impedance, i.e., highest efficiency at rated speed. It's entirely possible that the field strength from a front derailleur is higher than from a motor when not in use.

Demonstration? Take a toy motor and try sticking it to your fridge. The small pager motors I have (really high rpm) won't stick at all. That suggests a field of a few milli Tesla. Detectable, but not super powerful.

Another experiment: with your bike on a stand, try shifting from small to big ring by pushing the derailleur with your hand. It takes a very large force. To create that kind of static force, the actuator or solenoid in the derailleur has to have a very powerful magnet. Something on the order of 1 Tesla. I have no way to check, but I bet you could get a coin to stick to a electronic front derailleur housing.

Anyways, the iPad detection method is an obvious sham.

John Swanson

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

Bollocks, indeed. The force needed to move the front derailleur cage is quite large. Look at the first generation of actuators. They're huge. The magnets involved with the linear actuators are quite powerful. On the order of 1 Tesla (0.5 to 5 Tesla), I'm sure. And how far away from the seat tube is the FD? Right. About a centimeter. And, on axis, for a dipole where r >> A, the field falls off as 1/r^3 and not 1/r^2. For complex geometries, and close proximities you better be good at calculus or willing to take precise and detailed measurements.

An iPad... Pfffffft!

John Swanson

The iPad primarily serves as a display. The motors themselves are 10cm -20cm long, with every bit of that length needed to get the torque they need (given the small diameter). Detecting the very strong permanent magnets in these motors, in locations well away from FDs, is trivially easy with a coil and something to respond to the induced current (iPad).

But this is perhaps all speculation. What I just can't get is just how many corrupt and silent people (without one single whistleblower), with little incentive, are being suggested with these allegations of motor-cheating and a UCI cover-up. I mean...seriously?

The Stepanovas say hi.

 

[adamfo]

The girl who got caught had a Vivax motor fitted.

http://www.qbbikes.com/en/kit-electrico-bicicleta-vivax-assist/electric-bicycle-kit-vivax-assist-40.html

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

On the next sentences, well the first Stade 2 program was a farce

They made Brian aware of their specific suspiscions and he did nothing.

Does your tinfoil hat get hot? Why on earth would the UCI want to condone or cover-up motorised-cheat cycling? What's in it for Cookson? Catching motorised bike-cheats is trivially easy. There's nowhere to hide. The motors (even wheel mounted ones) are dead easy to detect (even without Lemond's "large arches"). They're going well above what is required in my view. The number of tests is more than adequate. I have no idea how you can still be convinced that the fix is in; that there is some huge conspiracy. There just isn't. Not everyone is lying to you.....

Thanks to Verbruggen and the UCI's behaviour over the past two decades there is enough to justify wild speculation, theories, doubt and mistrust by anyone who have followed the sport closely for that length of time.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/mar/09/lance-armstrong-uci-colluded-circ-report-cycling

In a perverted way, it's become more entertaining to speculate about the insanity that is professional cycling than watching the racing itself (see TDF 2016).

If you believe that H. Verbruggen and Lance Armstrong were in cahoots, at any time, in order to help further the business of cycling, which in my opinion is what happened, then I can't question anyone who might believe the same thing is happening now between Cookson, Brailsford and the rise of British cycling. It's completely plausible and worth questioning given the history of the sport and UCI.

Think of the size of the conspiracy you're proposing. It just isn't happening.

The only one proposing a conspiracy is you, ironically.
All these people, Stade2, Lemond, Circ, Cassani, and many many more conspiring to.make it look like motors are being used in the peloton and to paint UCI in such a negative daylight.
That's one big ffing conspiracy ur proposing here.

 

[doperhopper]

Re: Re:

Bollocks, indeed. The force needed to move the front derailleur cage is quite large. Look at the first generation of actuators. They're huge. The magnets involved with the linear actuators are quite powerful. On the order of 1 Tesla (0.5 to 5 Tesla), I'm sure. And how far away from the seat tube is the FD? Right. About a centimeter. And, on axis, for a dipole where r >> A, the field falls off as 1/r^3 and not 1/r^2. For complex geometries, and close proximities you better be good at calculus or willing to take precise and detailed measurements.

An iPad... Pfffffft!

John Swanson

The iPad primarily serves as a display. The motors themselves are 10cm -20cm long, with every bit of that length needed to get the torque they need (given the small diameter). Detecting the very strong permanent magnets in these motors, in locations well away from FDs, is trivially easy with a coil and something to respond to the induced current (iPad).

But this is perhaps all speculation. What I just can't get is just how many corrupt and silent people (without one single whistleblower), with little incentive, are being suggested with these allegations of motor-cheating and a UCI cover-up. I mean...seriously?

It doesn't even take a conspiracy. You just give all these "inspectors" (UCI commissaires?) an iPad with a dongle hanging off it. You know they work like crap and go nuts whenever they're near an electric front derailleur. Perfect. Just tell the guys using the iPad that this is normal, doesn't indicate a motor, and to move along to the next bike.

And just so you know, the motors *can* have really strong rare earth magnets like the linear actuator, but field strength is only important in a motor if you want high static torque. If you design a motor for high rpm then you're probably going to size the magnets to get lowest winding impedance, i.e., highest efficiency at rated speed. It's entirely possible that the field strength from a front derailleur is higher than from a motor when not in use.

Demonstration? Take a toy motor and try sticking it to your fridge. The small pager motors I have (really high rpm) won't stick at all. That suggests a field of a few milli Tesla. Detectable, but not super powerful.

Another experiment: with your bike on a stand, try shifting from small to big ring by pushing the derailleur with your hand. It takes a very large force. To create that kind of static force, the actuator or solenoid in the derailleur has to have a very powerful magnet. Something on the order of 1 Tesla. I have no way to check, but I bet you could get a coin to stick to a electronic front derailleur housing.

Anyways, the iPad detection method is an obvious sham.

John Swanson

Looks like this "placebo measurement" is perfectly in line with "placebo antidoping" in the form of biopassport ("dope all year long => no anomalies" ).

Naturally stems from the general "antiscandal" attitude in cycling (instead of antidoping), so instead of dealing with causes the focus is on covering the symptoms.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Bollocks, indeed. The force needed to move the front derailleur cage is quite large. Look at the first generation of actuators. They're huge. The magnets involved with the linear actuators are quite powerful. On the order of 1 Tesla (0.5 to 5 Tesla), I'm sure. And how far away from the seat tube is the FD? Right. About a centimeter. And, on axis, for a dipole where r >> A, the field falls off as 1/r^3 and not 1/r^2. For complex geometries, and close proximities you better be good at calculus or willing to take precise and detailed measurements.

An iPad... Pfffffft!

John Swanson

What surprises me most with the iPad test, is how quickly they scan the bike. I just can't see that as effective in picking up an electrical signal. I'm surprised it doesn't have a dongle attached so you can point the sensor more directly at distinct parts of the bike.

 

[adamfo]

This video must cause cognitive dissonance in the hatter ranks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN7HjwZI-k0

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re:

This video must cause cognitive dissonance in the hatter ranks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN7HjwZI-k0

Not at all. Ryder's wheel makes contact three separate times and the bike slides until it's at rest before the acceleration begins. The bike also continues to accelerate. In contrast the demonstration involves carefully placing the bike on the ground. The acceleration slows down as the wheel loses energy as you'd expect and the bike reaches a stable rotational speed and starts to slow down.

One wheel looks like additional energy is being added and one doesn't. Hub motor? Maybe.

Cognitive dissonance? No, thank you.

John Swanson

 

[adamfo]

Re: Re:

This video must cause cognitive dissonance in the hatter ranks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN7HjwZI-k0

Not at all. Ryder's wheel makes contact three separate times and the bike slides until it's at rest before the acceleration begins. The bike also continues to accelerate. In contrast the demonstration involves carefully placing the bike on the ground. The acceleration slows down as the wheel loses energy as you'd expect and the bike reaches a stable rotational speed and starts to slow down.

One wheel looks like additional energy is being added and one doesn't. Hub motor? Maybe.

Cognitive dissonance? No, thank you.

John Swanson

The difference is the road is downhill and the bike has forward momentum. When that stops the wheel slows until the friction coefficient is such that it starts to grip the road surface.
The clip is also in slow motion. Speed it up in the likes of the VLC player and all looks normal.

 

[adamfo]

Another incident that had the tin foil hatters antenna to loose control. The explanation this time is rather mundane....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPYPJqv_Tgk

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Re:

This video must cause cognitive dissonance in the hatter ranks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN7HjwZI-k0

Not at all. Ryder's wheel makes contact three separate times and the bike slides until it's at rest before the acceleration begins. The bike also continues to accelerate. In contrast the demonstration involves carefully placing the bike on the ground. The acceleration slows down as the wheel loses energy as you'd expect and the bike reaches a stable rotational speed and starts to slow down.

One wheel looks like additional energy is being added and one doesn't. Hub motor? Maybe.

Cognitive dissonance? No, thank you.

John Swanson

The difference is the road is downhill and the bike has forward momentum. When that stops the wheel slows until the friction coefficient is such that it starts to grip the road surface.
The clip is also in slow motion. Speed it up in the likes of the VLC player and all looks normal.

Both bike and rider (Ryder) have come to a stop - there is no forward momentum. They are not sliding. Compare the demonstration to Ryder's bike. Don't just eyeball it. Time the accelerations, rotational velocities and decelerations. You'll see that the two are not alike in any way.

If you make some estimations based on the video and then do the math it really looks like Ryder's wheel is being driven whereas the demonstration is clearly not. One is plausible and the other is not. Even though they look similar.

John Swanson

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

these by all accounts are still being used

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/may/02/fake-bomb-detector-conman-jailed