Motor doping thread

[CTQ]

@TeflonDub the profile of the TTT here http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=149949&c=6&stat_id=217

 

[TeflonDub]

Re:

@TeflonDub the profile of the TTT here http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=149949&c=6&stat_id=217

Last 2k uphill. I don't Nico Roche was a big fan of the decision to carry extra weight over the last stretch that day. But I remember that TTT so well, EVERY time they cut to Sky, Froome was on the front. Every time. He nearly had to go back and tow Roche across the line.

 

[DamianoMachiavelli]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

You all do realize that a long time knock against Pinarello has been the frames are heavy and builds often come in above the UCI limit? I guess not.

 

[StryderHells]

How many different team bikes did they weigh? I know Pinarello's aren't the lightest bikes in the peloton so thought I'd look into the tech from that TT, I noticed that Sky were using fully integrated 3D printed cockpits which would add extra weight compared to what other teams were using but then I looked into frame and fork weights, I was surprised to see that the new Boldie Sky were using came in a couple of hundred grams lighter than the Look Monoblade Cofidis were using, same goes for MTN's Cervelo P5s and were roughly the same as Quickstep's Specialized Shiv s Works. So I am curious what other teams bikes weighed and do think it's odd that the Boldie was so heavy when looking at frame and fork weights of some other bikes.

 

[avanti]

Varjas said his motors use "military grade metal"; just about every metal has a military specification so his statement is just hype.

My question is does the motorization add friction when the battery is dead or not being used?

In general I thought the program will work against cycling rather than provide valuable contributions.

 

[TeflonDub]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

You all do realize that a long time knock against Pinarello has been the frames are heavy and builds often come in above the UCI limit? I guess not.

Yes. Which is why Team Sky explained the 800g difference over competitors is a well-documented characteristic of the bikes supplied by Pinarello. Oh, wait...

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

You all do realize that a long time knock against Pinarello has been the frames are heavy and builds often come in above the UCI limit? I guess not.

TT bikes used in that 2015 stage 9 TTT
Frame and Fork weights
Pinarello Boldie Frame 1100g Fork 360g
BMC TM01 Frame 1330g Fork 580g
Look Monoblade Frame 1100 Fork 350g (made a mistake in my original post and the look isn't heavier than the Boldie)
Cervelo P5s Frame 1300g Fork 450g

The Pinarello frame and fork comes in lighter than the stage winning BMC TM01

Edit: these stats are a mix of claimed weights from the companies and reviewers, they may vary by a couple of grams but the one thing that's for sure is that the Pinarello isn't overly heavy.

 

[DamianoMachiavelli]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

You all do realize that a long time knock against Pinarello has been the frames are heavy and builds often come in above the UCI limit? I guess not.

TT bikes used in that 2015 stage 9 TTT
Frame and Fork weights
Pinarello Boldie Frame 1100g Fork 360g
BMC TM01 Frame 1330g Fork 580g
Look Monoblade Frame 1100 Fork 350g (made a mistake in my original post and the look isn't heavier than the Boldie)
Cervelo P5s Frame 1300g Fork 450g

The Pinarello frame and fork comes in lighter than the stage winning BMC TM01

I am talking road frames. Pinarello has listed bogus weights for its frames, and real builds come out considerably heavier than expected. I don't know about 2015 frames.

Trying to prove motor use because of ITT bike weights is asinine. This is dumber than idjits trying to prove dope use by average TdF speeds.

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

You all do realize that a long time knock against Pinarello has been the frames are heavy and builds often come in above the UCI limit? I guess not.

TT bikes used in that 2015 stage 9 TTT
Frame and Fork weights
Pinarello Boldie Frame 1100g Fork 360g
BMC TM01 Frame 1330g Fork 580g
Look Monoblade Frame 1100 Fork 350g (made a mistake in my original post and the look isn't heavier than the Boldie)
Cervelo P5s Frame 1300g Fork 450g

The Pinarello frame and fork comes in lighter than the stage winning BMC TM01

I am talking road frames. Pinarello has listed bogus weights for its frames, and real builds come out considerably heavier than expected. I don't know about 2015 frames.

Trying to prove motor use because of ITT bike weights is asinine. This is dumber than idjits trying to prove dope use by average TdF speeds.

I'm not saying that this is proof of moto fraud but more saying that the Pinarello if heavier than say the BMC it shouldn't be 800 grams heavier, I have my doubts with the 60 minutes report as it gives no other bikes weight details so it's hard to go through the overall spec's from that TT to get a rough estimate of what the bikes should weigh.

 

[MarkvW]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

What is the reason given for why these magical wheels could not be demonstrated before the camera? Or were they?

 

[Craigee]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

You all do realize that a long time knock against Pinarello has been the frames are heavy and builds often come in above the UCI limit? I guess not.

So what happened to the marginal gains? Seems like a handicap instead. No wonder they never win anything. Oh hold it a minute.

 

[DamianoMachiavelli]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

You all do realize that a long time knock against Pinarello has been the frames are heavy and builds often come in above the UCI limit? I guess not.

So what happened to the marginal gains? Seems like a handicap instead. No wonder they never win anything. Oh hold it a minute.

A bogus TUE is required for marginal gains.

Apparently the inventor giving the press an in person demo of an actual wheel motor is more difficult than getting an in focus picture of bigfoot.

 

[Night Rider]

I remember this from a month or two back.

Lance to Ger " ..................... what .......................................................................................... are you a complete rookie! ....................."


Yes

:lol:

What an absolute rubbish job by CBS.

 

[observer]

mm. my thought is i doubt that Lance (or anyone) would have been using motors back then. The actions of Ferrari seem to back it up. In my mind he is still doping riders, and has been baffled by his riders not winning based on the science of doping. His investigations seem to have uncovered these motors.

I would think that Ferrari is a purist when it comes to the science of doping. I'd say motors would damage his revenue stream through doping, so would actually be happy to see it all come down.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Nothing else than speculation, nothing substantial.

Of course Team Sky didn't motordoped for the ITT or TTT, Froome rode a bad time trial and the rest of the riders don't really matter. Why would you place a motor in Rowe and Stannard's bikes?? They also lost the TTT, not by much, but Movistar was also very close.

Do people believe this Varjas-guy?

 

[glassmoon]

so... the "documentary" was aired - any relevant in it news or just same old same old? were the names revealed or just usual bullsh*t?

 

[samhocking]

Reading between the lines of the CBS 60 mins transcript, it sounds like other teams have told Jean-Pierre Verdy (French Anti-Doping) of 12 riders with hidden motors. The French authorities CBS claims were denied taking the wheels out of Sky's TT bikes by UCI we assume is French Anti-Doing, although they call them simply French Investigators?
On the other side of the story, you also have LeMond and his wife saying they have been working secretly with the French Police and personally got Stefano to tell them that he delivered motorised bikes to Beaulieu Sur Mer and this is the evidence on these 12 riders with motors?
I didn't understand the point of CBS spending $12K on motorising a Trek replica frame and getting Hamilton to ride it, when Varjas is saying it's all in the wheels. Why demo 20 year old technology in a 20 years old frame, when you have the latest motorised wheels and hubs right there in front of you, you're claiming are being used in the peloton? I mean if we're watching these wheels on TV in Tour, why can't we watch these wheels on CBS 60 too? None of it hangs together whatsoever, either the story or Stefano's claims.

 

[staubsauger]

So their whole point on Armstrong literally goes down the lane when Ferrari only visited Varjas 3 years ago to learn specifically about motor doping? Nothing but a smear campaign against an anyway tarnished person. Like my earlier prognosis already stated: ***! They literally put a vinyl disk on a gramophone and said “Look it works!“

Regarding Sky it's more interesting and pretty obvious to be honest. No matter if they could prove their suspicion. The Pinarello bikes weighting more than they should while Italian manufacturers are heavily rumored to be widely involved in motor doping tells enough. Froome's Ventoux attack says everything now. That was just unreal. Not only high cadence, but a fully unrealistic super-high cadence for only a few seconds. Ferrari's hint that Froome found some 60 watts extra in his legs on the Aitana at 2015 Ruta del Sol. It's obvious. You don't really need a prove anymore. It's like Freddy Mercury's AIDS admission back 1991: Visible for everyone quite long time already.

I guess the names regarding motor doping are quite obvious anyway:
-Christian Vandevelde 2008
-Bradley Wiggins 2009 ->probably brought it over to Sky later.
-Thomas Voeckler & Pierre Rolland 2011 on their Europcar Colnago bikes. Explains Titi suddenly becoming a climber in 11&12 only fully!
-Chris Froome from 2011 onwards.
- Ryder Hesjedal of course.
-Sagan who literally got caught during Strade Bianche.
-Alexander Foliforov winning the Seiser Alm mtt out of nowhere on his Colnago
-Steven Kruijswijk & Bianchi

There are numerous other suspicious moves of course.
-Giant inventing special magnetic wheels (They could easily be the first manufacturer with motors. Actually that's how they stormed the European bike market in the zeros: E-bikes!)
-Movistar
-Contador and his sudden bike changes from 2014 onwards after he claimed Froome was on another level in 2013.

Etc pp.

I still don't buy it had much of an impact before 2008. There's no way that Emanuele Sella & Michael Rasmussen only on Cera & Dynepo would've been able to perform the best ever Pantani cover acts at the 2008 Giro & 2007 Tour if motor doping was already widespread in the top level back then!

Actually it would be poor Marcos tt performances himself in 98/99 that would raise an eyebrow if motor were already used in the nineties. But in that case Bianchi would've been the one big racing bike company in the pro ranks instead of constantly losing ground to competitors in the zeros. So it's highly unlikely that the technology got used that early.

Like I said, if one company was the pioneer it could be Giant in the zeros.

Oh Edith adds: When EPO really kicked off in the nineties it took 2-4 years until everyone with a clue (riders, managers, officials, journalists, fans) knew what was going on. No matter how strong the omerta was. You believe that motor doping would've been hidden for like 15 years? No way!

 

[samhocking]

The electromagnetic wheel technology doesn't fit in shallow climbing rims though does it. It requires deep section carbon rims to hide the electromagnets and electronics or hidden from view within the hub of a disc wheel. I'd love to know how Varjas fitted it all into Wiggins Tune or Chris King lightweight minimal hubs & 24mm Enve rims he used to use in the mountains or Froomes preferred Dura-Ace C24s lol

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

^ So I guess Nibali on Hautacam can't have been moto-doping?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eofJgcSH_24

1:55 onwards

 

[samhocking]

^^ In the frame maybe.
You simply can't build an electromagnetic motor in anything other than a deep section rim or in an enlarged hub hidden within a disc wheel, that's why they're only discussed in TT stages.

 

[pastronef]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

lets see

Typhoon is based in Monaco
Varjas delivered motors to a warehouse in Beaulieu sur Mer
when people refer to Monaco it can also include the local area.
Typhoon could have a warehouse there, with offices in Monaco for tax reasons
Typhoon sells motorized bikes to the public.

people are claiming Cycles Camellini (in Beaulieu sur Mer) are involved in motor doping.
people claim Typhoon owns Cycles Camellini. that's false. they are Typhoon dealers, but family owned shop. they sell Typhoon bikes

they claim 12 riders used the motors in 2015 Tour
Sky lost the TT to BMC with Movistar 3rd at 3 seconds
Froome was 39th in the prologue at 50 seconds from Dennis

Sky bikes where 800 grams heavier than THE OTHER BIKES
so all the other peloton TT bikes (180 of them) had the same weight.
the official weighed all the TT bikes
just Sky bikes weighed 800 grams more that the other 180 bikes.

so Sky, with heavier bikes with motors on the hub, were 1 second slower and 3 seconds faster that BMC and Movistar

 

[carolina]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

Sky bikes where 800 grams heavier than THE OTHER BIKES
so all the other peloton TT bikes (180 of them) had the same weight.
the official weighed all the TT bikes
just Sky bikes weighed 800 grams more that the other 180 bikes.

They said team sky bikes were the only ones that were significantly heavier. The other bikes weren't the same weight.

 

[vp2015]

Simple enough, find a 2015 Sky TT bike out of storage and weigh it. It's not like they destroyed the bikes, have they?

 

[pastronef]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

Sky bikes where 800 grams heavier than THE OTHER BIKES
so all the other peloton TT bikes (180 of them) had the same weight.
the official weighed all the TT bikes
just Sky bikes weighed 800 grams more that the other 180 bikes.

They said team sky bikes were the only ones that were significantly heavier. The other bikes weren't the same weight.

so Sky bikes were 800 grams heavier compared to WHICH other bikes?