The whole motor doping area is littered with people talking nonsense that some of the valid points and links I think are being missed.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Lance never used a motor during his yellow jersey days, but in fact Voeckler did so in 2011 & 2012!MartinGT said:
V - still same attention wh0re.
Get the LA and motodoping into one sentence and media are all over you. He just loves it.
Get the LA and motodoping into one sentence and media are all over you. He just loves it.
Re:
I'm a little cautious about believing what I read. Unless you hear an audio recording of the interview you never quite know how the supposed quotes arose. Journalists rarely arrive without an agenda...
glassmoon said:
I'm a little cautious about believing what I read. Unless you hear an audio recording of the interview you never quite know how the supposed quotes arose. Journalists rarely arrive without an agenda...
Re: Re:
The issue isn't the watts. 150W electric motors the size of your thumb can be found for less than $10. The issue is always going to be that power in order to use it in a bike depends on its Torque multiplied by Speed and the direction of travel works against you.
ClassicomanoLuigi said:I was thinking it would have to be some kind of advanced battery, since it cannot be that the motor itself is supposed to be the size of a USB drive. But that's how the description reads, the whole motor. And in that case, we would probably have to think along the lines of combustion or radioactivity... or ... ???ScienceIsCool said:
fournir 140 watts = to provide the power. So it means the generated power, not the consumption
It was just a rhetorical question or small thought-experiment on the improbability of the Varjas device as described. If it is real, then for sure it would be worth a lot more than $2 million to all kinds of industrialists, miiltary, etc. Then the whole espionage and death-threat scenarios from the book make sense as well
Oh, look, Lance was hiding the Varjas motor in plain sight !
That's brilliant - let's not let it fall into the wrong hands
The issue isn't the watts. 150W electric motors the size of your thumb can be found for less than $10. The issue is always going to be that power in order to use it in a bike depends on its Torque multiplied by Speed and the direction of travel works against you.
Re: Re:
Those motors are perfect for quad-copter RCs where the torque profile matches the requirements. For a bike... Nope. You want high torque at low rpm, and there are a few design choices, but they aren't as small.
John Swanson
Watts are Watts - measure of work in Joules/second. For rotations, it can be expressed as torque x w, where w is radians per second and the "x" is a cross product since w is a vector. The only problem is that the motors you describe run at a Brazillion rpm and no torque. To get anything useful, you have to translate that work into a reasonable torque and rpm. That means gearing and lots of. Which will have enormous friction losses and be huge.samhocking said:
Those motors are perfect for quad-copter RCs where the torque profile matches the requirements. For a bike... Nope. You want high torque at low rpm, and there are a few design choices, but they aren't as small.
John Swanson
That was exactly my point, that you can very easily get very small very high watt motors, but without any way to get that into a bike as useable watts is impossible in the space he's claiming is possible.
My RC plane has a 1200w motor no bigger than my computer mouse and lasts 15-20 minutes, but it would be totally useless in a bike without a huge gearbox to get that torque in a useable way. It simply can't fit into a USB thumb drive or even a bikes hub or seat tube with existing technology without a huge gearbox or bigger more powerful magnets and stators. In a bike it would have to be easily 5 times bigger and heavier to gain the required low RPM torque at 150w for 15 minutes use. This is the problem with Varjas's claims. Nothing he says in theory, exist in the real world either from him or any technology manufacturer. Even aerospace don't have motors like he describes.
As far as I can tell, he took pretty standard motors that would fit in a seatube and some backstreet engineering to hook it up to the bottom bracket. Easily possible in Armstrongs time though. Worth $2million? I'd say it was $2million to stop him selling to others rather than actually worth $2million as it's not an invention of anything, simply applying what already exists off-the-shelf inside a bike frame from what i've seen of his work so far.
My RC plane has a 1200w motor no bigger than my computer mouse and lasts 15-20 minutes, but it would be totally useless in a bike without a huge gearbox to get that torque in a useable way. It simply can't fit into a USB thumb drive or even a bikes hub or seat tube with existing technology without a huge gearbox or bigger more powerful magnets and stators. In a bike it would have to be easily 5 times bigger and heavier to gain the required low RPM torque at 150w for 15 minutes use. This is the problem with Varjas's claims. Nothing he says in theory, exist in the real world either from him or any technology manufacturer. Even aerospace don't have motors like he describes.
As far as I can tell, he took pretty standard motors that would fit in a seatube and some backstreet engineering to hook it up to the bottom bracket. Easily possible in Armstrongs time though. Worth $2million? I'd say it was $2million to stop him selling to others rather than actually worth $2million as it's not an invention of anything, simply applying what already exists off-the-shelf inside a bike frame from what i've seen of his work so far.
Why do you need such high torque when the rider is pressing the peddles too?
The motor assists the peddler - doesn't replace him.
It's an add on to gain extra watts.
The motor assists the peddler - doesn't replace him.
It's an add on to gain extra watts.
Because a bike and riders legs are very low rpm machines. A small powerful motor is typically a high rpm machine. So you either have to make the motor much bigger to get usable torque or use a gearbox. Either way, the size is increasing and the limiting factor is magnet technology too.
Look at Vargas's hub motor for instance. That was about 8" in diameter like an oversize SON Dynamo hub.
Look at Vargas's hub motor for instance. That was about 8" in diameter like an oversize SON Dynamo hub.
Maybe, better to build an inside "motor" as aid in the seat tube, on the axis magnet, and coil winding as stator, so its speed rotation is directly linked to the rider and electronic let pass ectricity when winding can attract magnet.
The Bassons car chase French amateur:
https://cyclingtips.com/2018/02/french-amateur-given-five-year-suspension-hidden-motor-use/
Cyril Fontaine has been handed a five year ban from the sport.
According to Le Figaro, the 43 year old was notified of the sanction in mid-January
https://cyclingtips.com/2018/02/french-amateur-given-five-year-suspension-hidden-motor-use/
Cyril Fontaine has been handed a five year ban from the sport.
According to Le Figaro, the 43 year old was notified of the sanction in mid-January
https://www.facebook.com/likecyclingtoday/videos/1199850683483292/
It’s grainy footage but looks like a bog standard Super Six with Mavic wheels...
It’s grainy footage but looks like a bog standard Super Six with Mavic wheels...
Re: Re:
I think you underestimate just how important Strava Kudos and KOM's are to some people
ClassicomanoLuigi said:
I think you underestimate just how important Strava Kudos and KOM's are to some people
Yep. I have friends that chase Strava segments and will cheat to beat them. Just ridiculous. I don't think they can really enjoy their time on a bike.
www.twitter.com/MRasmussen1974
I am sure @lancearmstrong was on lost of things in 1999 but a motor was not one of them. High octane fuel yes - fantastic biologic engine yes -mechanical doping no Way. Just my five cents
I am sure @lancearmstrong was on lost of things in 1999 but a motor was not one of them. High octane fuel yes - fantastic biologic engine yes -mechanical doping no Way. Just my five cents
pastronef said:
Great, that is that one laid to rest then. Them pesky conspiracy theorists; they need to be told.
Tell me again how the omerta works ?
Freddythefrog said:
omertá?
so he got sent home from a Tour win, lost money, got sacked, lost his career, was blacklisted by Uci and teams, confessed his 12 year doping and accused his team, got De Rooij and other sacked, considered suicide, but he kept his secret on motors instead of crashing it all down?
Today Paris Nice day 1 - in the crash a few kms from the finish a bunch of riders went down.
The Katusha riders bike back wheel was really spinning .. took out another rider and kept on spinning ..looked very unusual ..
The Katusha riders bike back wheel was really spinning .. took out another rider and kept on spinning ..looked very unusual ..
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