Motorbikes Impacting Outcome

[jens_attacks]

Then the problem is solved!

Would actually make for some pretty awesome footage!

there were already used dozens of times. in giro d'italia in the mid 90's live also recently in tour de suisse but it was never something the audience liked i guess. you can't move it like you want.

 

[RedheadDane]

there were already used dozens of times. in giro d'italia in the mid 90's live also recently in tour de suisse but it was never something the audience liked i guess. you can't move it like you want.

As an addition to heli and motos it would be rather cool though!

 

[willbick]

Having looked at Cana attack again i dont think motos made any difference. Sagan didnt show any inclination to follow cancs wheel earlier when he could have

 

[personal]

Motorcycles and cars are part of the race. They shouldn't influence it, but sometimes it is unavoidable.
Just like footbal referees who get in the way form time to time.

It happens.

 

[ultimobici]

That was the example I was going to throw out. I understand they have to be there for the coverage, but they have got to be as neutral to the outcome of the race as possible.

You both need to review the coverage. No way did Pinotti draft the moto, unless you've figured out a way to change the laws of physics. He was several metres off the rear of the bike, so if anything was riding in disturbed air. What he did benefit from was the pacing effect of having the moto there. Although having a bike yo-yoing in front of him may not have been that beneficial either.

 

[shalgo]

Start watching at 0:59 in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDvrvi6sINU&feature=player_detailpage#t=59s

 

[shalgo]

Amstel Gold Race 1999:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raw7dFiu1Hw&feature=player_detailpage#t=42s

 

[Tigerion]

Start watching at 0:59 in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDvrvi6sINU&feature=player_detailpage#t=59s

In that case it was very clearly the riders deliberately moving to draft a moto rather than the fact the moto was in the way.
Maybe you need rules for that rather than try to take them out of the race. Although how you would enforce that I have no idea

 

[More Strides than Rides]

It is a problem without a solution. The motor bikes are not driven by the same people, and they are probably far removed along the hierarchy from people who understand and can direct their role. I've been in a race where the lead truck van kicked up dirt and dust at the leader. I've been squeezed pretty tight around a corner by a doofus race official. Except for eliminating or minimizing autos on the road, we will have to take the negatives with the positives.

 

[ElChingon]

It is a problem without a solution. The motor bikes are not driven by the same people, and they are probably far removed along the hierarchy from people who understand and can direct their role. I've been in a race where the lead truck van kicked up dirt and dust at the leader. I've been squeezed pretty tight around a corner by a doofus race official. Except for eliminating or minimizing autos on the road, we will have to take the negatives with the positives.

What? No solution... how about not riding withing 10 feet of any rider or you never ever get to drive a moto in a race ever again. Sounds like a solution to me.

 

[Tigerion]

What? No solution... how about not riding withing 10 feet of any rider or you never ever get to drive a moto in a race ever again. Sounds like a solution to me.

That actually wouldn't allow you to pass a rider and would leave motos in between a break away and peloton as they are being caught.
It also wouldn't solve the issue that shalgo posted of riders swerving 10 metres to draft

But the races survive on coverage and on the basis that there was no negative reactions to the Hoogerland/Flecha incident I can't see them doing anything to media that get too close

 

[ElChingon]

That actually wouldn't allow you to pass a rider and would leave motos in between a break away and peloton as they are being caught.
It also wouldn't solve the issue that shalgo posted of riders swerving 10 metres to draft

But the races survive on coverage and on the basis that there was no negative reactions to the Hoogerland/Flecha incident I can't see them doing anything to media that get too close

Any rider drafting a moto, DQ. Solved. Any moto caught in between at any place which might affect the race just has to stop or go so slow any rider getting close just loses their pace. During the break of 10 or so riders there's plenty of space to pull off, sure when the peloton catches the break (ala Tour flat stages) its an issue but at the same time its not as the big peloton is always a better draft than one moto slowing down.

UCI just so lame they don't even have any rules to the effect, mostly a off the seat of their pants rulings which always falls short of any thing sensible.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Any rider drafting a moto, DQ. Solved. Any moto caught in between at any place which might affect the race just has to stop or go so slow any rider getting close just loses their pace. During the break of 10 or so riders there's plenty of space to pull off, sure when the peloton catches the break (ala Tour flat stages) its an issue but at the same time its not as the big peloton is always a better draft than one moto slowing down.

UCI just so lame they don't even have any rules to the effect, mostly a off the seat of their pants rulings which always falls short of any thing sensible.

Thats like solving the issue of rowdy fans by DQing any rider that crashes because of them. Riders have no control when a bike will swing in front of them. If you want to talk about motos affecting races, you will have much more to talk about when every rider is obliged to move because of whatever is happening among the cars/motorcycles.

 

[Afrank]

Thats like solving the issue of rowdy fans by DQing any rider that crashes because of them. Riders have no control when a bike will swing in front of them. If you want to talk about motos affecting races, you will have much more to talk about when every rider is obliged to move because of whatever is happening among the cars/motorcycles.

It's fairly obvious to tell when a rider is intentionally drafting a moto and when they accidentally do so. I would say actually disqualifying the rider would be a little too harsh though, imposing a fine for intentional drafting would be better IMO.

 

[Frosty]

The motorbike afterwards seemed keen on giving backwards looking shots of Sagan and Roelandts. Not sure quite how close he was but was straight in front.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

You both need to review the coverage. No way did Pinotti draft the moto, unless you've figured out a way to change the laws of physics. He was several metres off the rear of the bike, so if anything was riding in disturbed air. What he did benefit from was the pacing effect of having the moto there. Although having a bike yo-yoing in front of him may not have been that beneficial either.

I haven't seen the coverage, nor know about how Pinotti rode but as a general comment there is definitely quite a sizeable draft benefit even at some meters from another lone rider, let alone a moto.

Air that's been disturbed by a rider or vehicle moving same direction ahead of you is easier to ride through than undisturbed air. That's the whole point of a draft.

As an example of quantifying the draft benefit, see this item:
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/pour-me-draft.html

 

[honeybtini]

HOLY CRAP!! That is exactly RIGHT!

While we were watching, that is exactly what we were saying.

Perhaps, Sagan didn't mention the motorbike, specifically because he knew it didn't/wouldn't matter in the outcome. However, this outcome not withstanding, that motorbike got IN THE WAY! It sets this jacked up precedent to allow it to happen with impunity.

Whether this race outcome would have changed or not, the neutral service (Shimano... Cancellara was riding Shimano, hmmmm) or the dude with the camera, or the officials, or whatever not pedaling with number attached, should never, EVER interfere with the race. And certainly not on THE decisive climb. I mean WTF?

So weird that everyone saw it while watching, but the commentators said NOTHING!

On the Paterberg, the motorcycle was way too close to the action. It looked almost as if the motorbike was fighting for Cancellara's wheel.

When you really start to suffer, and someone is stronger than you, you drop from their side to their wheel. This is instinctive behavior, even when there is not enough speed for an effective draft. My focus zones in on their back wheel or their brake bridge, I grit my teeth and hold on for dear life. Having that tunnel vision on their back wheel helps you survive when all seems lost.

Sagan could not have slid back onto Fabian's wheel without colliding with the motorbike. So where did he go? He went straight backwards.

It's one of the few things that really bugs me about pro racing. I am surprised that Sagan didn't mention it. Admittedly, he was almost certainly going to get dropped, and he probably didn't mention it for that reason. Yet, I can't help but wonder whether Sagan couldn't have held on if the motorbike wasn't there.

 

[max_powers]

Start watching at 0:59 in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDvrvi6sINU&feature=player_detailpage#t=59s

yep saw it, shows what FC is about: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=1177816#post1177816

 

[max_powers]

While we were watching, that is exactly what we were saying.

Perhaps, Sagan didn't mention the motorbike, specifically because he knew it didn't/wouldn't matter in the outcome. However, this outcome not withstanding, that motorbike got IN THE WAY! It sets this jacked up precedent to allow it to happen with impunity.

Whether this race outcome would have changed or not, the neutral service (Shimano... Cancellara was riding Shimano, hmmmm) or the dude with the camera, or the officials, or whatever not pedaling with number attached, should never, EVER interfere with the race. And certainly not on THE decisive climb. I mean WTF?

So weird that everyone saw it while watching, but the commentators said NOTHING!

Just watched again, Sagan clearly was blocked could not move laterally across the hill to gain pedal speed to catch up Fabian's wheel....

almost looked like the motos where itching to speed up after the slow uphill