- May 11, 2013
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EnacheV said:
I don't have a crystal ball but Sir shows the same level as Kyrienka and Thomas. Surely it's not what one would expect? Kittel came within six seconds of Wiggo. Going by the same logic, Dumoulin and Izaguirre are also doped. In fact everybody is doing it except poor Brad.
- Feb 20, 2010
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Alejandro Valverde is a rider whose natural level (regardless of whether doped) is very high. Throughout his whole career he has amassed points from February to September being constantly in the upper echelons of results. He's about as far from superpeaker as you can get. He's a very decent TT rider, especially over shorter distances, and he is riding for a team for whom this race is of more importance than to many of the others (first home stage race of the year). He is very strong technically, good at bike handling and cornering, and has very good acceleration.
Ion Izagirre is a dynamic rider who has been regarded as arguably the most talented young rider to come out of the Basque country in the last few years. He has a cyclocross background, and thus is very strong technically and with a very good burst of acceleration.
Why are these two being up near the top of a prologue surprising, when that prologue was full of technical corners and places where that acceleration and cornering could be effective in gaining time? If anything Javier Moreno was the most suspicious Movistar rider today.
Regarding the Sky guys who made up a huge amount of the top 10, Vasil Kiryienka isn't really renowned as a prologue rider; he becomes more competitive in longer TTs. It remains to be seen if Wiggins will ever be the rider he was in 2012, and he is also known for not being the most technically adept, losing time in cornering.
And hey, it's February. Abarcá have traditionally been more of a don't ask-don't tell team, but maybe they have stepped up to a more planned preparation. It's too many assumptions to make from 7km in February. Many of the Sky guys have different goals to Valverde (how many of them want a peak in the Ardennes? How many of the Movistar guys would want to peak in the Northern Classics like Thomas or EBH?) and will be in a different place with regard to their targeting (is Porte not targeting the Giro? If so it makes sense for him to be further behind in his preparation than an Ardennes-focused Valverde, for example).
We need a few more days of racing to tell with people like these. If these were random domestiques with no results #s 12 & 35 suddenly hitting 1st & 3rd in the prologue, maybe it could be a bigger deal, but really here we're just making a bigger deal out of it than we perhaps ought to, and that's primarily 'cos it's Valverde.
Ion Izagirre is a dynamic rider who has been regarded as arguably the most talented young rider to come out of the Basque country in the last few years. He has a cyclocross background, and thus is very strong technically and with a very good burst of acceleration.
Why are these two being up near the top of a prologue surprising, when that prologue was full of technical corners and places where that acceleration and cornering could be effective in gaining time? If anything Javier Moreno was the most suspicious Movistar rider today.
Regarding the Sky guys who made up a huge amount of the top 10, Vasil Kiryienka isn't really renowned as a prologue rider; he becomes more competitive in longer TTs. It remains to be seen if Wiggins will ever be the rider he was in 2012, and he is also known for not being the most technically adept, losing time in cornering.
And hey, it's February. Abarcá have traditionally been more of a don't ask-don't tell team, but maybe they have stepped up to a more planned preparation. It's too many assumptions to make from 7km in February. Many of the Sky guys have different goals to Valverde (how many of them want a peak in the Ardennes? How many of the Movistar guys would want to peak in the Northern Classics like Thomas or EBH?) and will be in a different place with regard to their targeting (is Porte not targeting the Giro? If so it makes sense for him to be further behind in his preparation than an Ardennes-focused Valverde, for example).
We need a few more days of racing to tell with people like these. If these were random domestiques with no results #s 12 & 35 suddenly hitting 1st & 3rd in the prologue, maybe it could be a bigger deal, but really here we're just making a bigger deal out of it than we perhaps ought to, and that's primarily 'cos it's Valverde.
Libertine Seguros said:
I agree with this, shame the Sky haters couldnt stop frothing at the mouth with every Sky performance aswell, not that the clinic isn't full of people with inherent contradictions in their thinking
- Aug 24, 2011
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Rollthedice said:
Kiry (and Porte) are both just off the very best at the ITT (Kiry god bronze in the 2012 worlds).
Thomas is as good as, and maybe even better than Wiggo at short prologues, he has tended to fade a little at longer distances, but with out the track as a distraction, that will likely fade.
So the Sky guys (Skyborgs if you will) being clustered close in the top #10 isn't surprising.
No matter I do think folks are reading too much into a one off short, technical, ITT
What's with all these "technical and heavy breaks usage" thing in today's prologue? How much breaking you can do at average 52.5km/h ?
- Apr 30, 2011
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Catwhoorg said:
Here you have a list of all Prologue results I could find of Kiry:
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=24082
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=21624
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=22293
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=22037
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=22026
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=22073
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=21159
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=19301
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=17879
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=17377
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=14029
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=13770
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=7889
Only two of those was top-10:
Vuelta a la Comunidad de Madrid 2009: 6th
Ster Elektrotoer 2008: 10th
- Jun 14, 2010
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Netserk said:
Why do you keep holding this blabbering idiot's hand? Anyone who's response to the observation that 1 team won 2 gts in 2010 is - no contador lost his tour, should be banned automatically for pure stupidity. If they can't grasp the basics of cycling on a cycling discussion, let them drown I say.
This is getting funnier and funnier. Can't believe people find explanations for the today's ridiculous Movistar display. The very same poople responsible for 1000's of filler posts in Sky threads.
And it will be a very long year with a lot of results like this. Good stuff is just coming
And it will be a very long year with a lot of results like this. Good stuff is just coming
EnacheV said:This is getting funnier and funnier. Can't believe people find explanations for the today's ridiculous Movistar display. The very same poople responsible for 1000's of filler posts in Sky threads.
And it will be a very long year with a lot of results like this. Good stuff is just coming
You can try and set your own narrative for what is happening in this thread but you'll be the only one that believes it.
EnacheV said:
You're reading too much (deliberately so I should add) into what happened today and people are pointing that out to you.
- Jul 15, 2013
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So basically your point is that a 1-3-8 for 3 Spanish riders from a Spanish team in a Spanish race begin february is utterly ridiculous and it's even more ridiculous that some people find it less ridiculous than this:
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=21643
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=21643
- Aug 16, 2011
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- 2
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EnacheV said:This is getting funnier and funnier. Can't believe people find explanations for the today's ridiculous Movistar display. The very same poople responsible for 1000's of filler posts in Sky threads.
And it will be a very long year with a lot of results like this. Good stuff is just coming
What's really funny is how off your doping radar is.
Parrulo said:That moment when winning a prologue in andaluzia is more suspicious than dominating the Tour.
I sense no bias here, none at all.
Also lol Abarca, obviously they wouldn't be taking a beating for long and do nothing about it. Costa chose a bad year to leave
Nah, Lampre are going to bring it this year too. As are OPQS and probably a lot of teams. The sky has broken and it's a new dawn for cycling
Plus, Costa is just going to be a stone-cold killer no matter where he rides
So to sum up the day , the people that teach me that Sky performances are not normal now teach me that Valverde gaining 2 sec / km in a flat TT vs Wiggins, Porte and Kyrienka is perfectly normal and a baseline performance for Valverde.
Was a very constructive day
Was a very constructive day
EnacheV said:So to sum up the day , the people that teach me that Sky performances are not normal now teach me that Valverde gaining 2 sec / km in a flat TT vs Wiggins, Porte and Kyrienka is perfectly normal and a baseline performance for Valverde.
Was a very constructive day
Valverde is/was a very good prolouge rider, so I don't see what is so weird about it. I would rate him higher than Kyrienka any day of the year, Wiggo is arguably over the top anyways, and Porte has not been that asthonising in tts as some want us to belive, plus this is, and I repeat a prolouge on 7.3 km, If it was 40km I would agree with you
+
This is hometurf for the spaniards, they are expected to be in better shape than most others.
- Jun 7, 2010
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- Jun 10, 2013
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roundabout said:
He isn't aiming for a **** small race in February, just like he wasn't last year. You see, unlike the entire Sky squad, which is nowhere to be found after July, Valverde can deliver decent results and performances all year long. Though he doesn't win that often anymore, he usually contests races.
roundabout said:
he aint aiming for it, it's just the apologist's excuse
probably he forgot to make it less obvious
- Jun 7, 2010
- 19,196
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Valverde able to somehow maintain form all year is a better reason why he is competitive now than him being Spanish and the race taking place in Spain.
Still he improved massively compared to Dubai
Still he improved massively compared to Dubai
roundabout said:
There is a difference between peaking, and to want to give the little extra for the home audience... Atleast in most other sports the people that race/play at home turf usually comes a little bit better prepared with that in mind. Nothing else...
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