Movistar

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Oct 16, 2010
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JimmyFingers said:
Really enjoyed the riding of Movistar in general and Quintana in particular this season. Certainly prepared to give him the same benefit of the doubt, given his upbringing (lived at altitude right, had to climb on a daily basis from a young age?) and clear potential. Looks to be a real gent to, and a good dose of panache.
to me he looks like another guy who wouldn't hesitate to dope if the doctor told him to ("vitamins, boy"), and if his and his family's wealth depended on it.
if anything, we've learned that athletes do not see doping as a crime, but simply as a necessary part of preparation.
why would quintana be different?
Hearing him talk he doesn't strike me as a second Bassons, with all due respect.
 
Dec 18, 2009
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sniper said:
to me he looks like another guy who wouldn't hesitate to dope if the doctor told him to ("vitamins, boy"), and if his and his family's wealth depended on it.
if anything, we've learned that athletes do not see doping as a crime, but simply as a necessary part of preparation.
why would quintana be different?
Hearing him talk he doesn't strike me as a second Bassons, with all due respect.
And riding up mountains breathing with a closed mouth doesn't look right to me.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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sniper said:
to me he looks like another guy who wouldn't hesitate to dope if the doctor told him to ("vitamins, boy"), and if his and his family's wealth depended on it.
But "to you" every person who has ridden a bike is a doper.

sniper said:
if anything, we've learned that athletes do not see doping as a crime, but simply as a necessary part of preparation.
why would quintana be different?
Hearing him talk he doesn't strike me as a second Bassons, with all due respect.
Money is always a motivation and the reason that many riders do not see doping as a crime, is because in most countries it isn't.
 
Escarabajo said:
How many talents have 91 VO2 max? I don't know many. Last I knew were Hinault and Lemond. At least they published their numbers.
It's not as uncommon as you might think, it's just that very few want it published.

For example world junior ITT champion Oscar Svendsen has a VO2 max of 97,5.
 
Aug 16, 2011
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nevada said:
And riding up mountains breathing with a closed mouth doesn't look right to me.
Looking back at some pictures, you can see he does have his mouth open in the hard moments. Sure, he's not gasping for breathe and doesn't have the pain face of other cyclists. But he's most likely still breathing pretty hard I think. He's just got a stony face and is completely concentrated on the race, so doesn't look really tired while climbing at times.
 
Feb 15, 2011
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maltiv said:
It's not as uncommon as you might think, it's just that very few want it published.

For example world junior ITT champion Oscar Svendsen has a VO2 max of 97,5.
How is that possible?! I thought the upper limit was like 92-93..
 
Afrank said:
Looking back at some pictures, you can see he does have his mouth open in the hard moments. Sure, he's not gasping for breathe and doesn't have the pain face of other cyclists. But he's most likely still breathing pretty hard I think. He's just got a stony face and is completely concentrated on the race, so doesn't look really tired while climbing at times.
Stony face? Something he learnt from another Abarcá alumnus.

 
Aug 16, 2011
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Libertine Seguros said:
Stony face? Something he learnt from another Abarcá alumnus.

Yes, stony faced, as in not exhibiting anything, completely focused and concentrated on the task at hand.

By the way, sharing the riding style of being concentrated on the race and stony faced isn't very good proof of doping. If that's the point you were making, that is.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
But "to you" every person who has ridden a bike is a doper.
didn't i just say "quintana doesn't strike me as a second bassons"?
but whatever turns you on.

Money is always a motivation and the reason that many riders do not see doping as a crime, is because in most countries it isn't
good point
 
Jul 17, 2012
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sniper said:
to me he looks like another guy who wouldn't hesitate to dope if the doctor told him to ("vitamins, boy"), and if his and his family's wealth depended on it.
if anything, we've learned that athletes do not see doping as a crime, but simply as a necessary part of preparation.
why would quintana be different?
Hearing him talk he doesn't strike me as a second Bassons, with all due respect.
I wasn't claiming Basson-esque integrity, just that I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
 
Jul 15, 2013
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Ryo Hazuki said:
quintana is 100% clean to me. I have various reasons(personally) but the reason most cna buy at leats in colombia is that jhe was trained and guided by saldariaga. saldariaga is famous in colombia for refusing to dope and his stance against it. also their team manager luisa is even more verbal in this regard.
i have no idea about saldariaga or luisa personally, but trainers, doctors and backup team are always the best indication of the likelihood of whether a sportsperson is clean or not.

Ryo Hazuki said:
he's an hors category talent ever since he firts got a racingbike and started to do races at age 16.
this kind of thing also helps.
 
May 26, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
But "to you" every person who has ridden a bike is a doper.
Pedantism is slipping. Sniper recognises the riders like Bassons, Scott Mercier and others didn't dope.

But if riders dont do a 'Bassons' how are fans supposed to see the clean riders in the cess pit of pro cycling?


Dr. Maserati said:
Money is always a motivation and the reason that many riders do not see doping as a crime, is because in most countries it isn't.
Most Italian fans dont see it as a crime. But that is no excuses because when a rider arrives into the pro peloton they very quickly learn that is illegal.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
Pedantism is slipping. Sniper recognises the riders like Bassons, Scott Mercier and others didn't dope.

But if riders dont do a 'Bassons' how are fans supposed to see the clean riders in the cess pit of pro cycling?




Most Italian fans dont see it as a crime. But that is no excuses because when a rider arrives into the pro peloton they very quickly learn that is illegal.
I know you like to try and tag team, but you might want to let 'sniper' fight his own corner, because even if riders do a 'Bassons' (whatever arbitary spin that is) 'sniper' said upthread:

sniper said:
whatever you're having, gimme some of it!

recent cycling history learns that it's not wise to base your judgement of the cleanliness of cycling and of riders on what people say.
why don't you judge it by what it is?
The organizational structures, the people running the testing, the doctors, the speeds, etc.
For now that's all we have, and it doesn't look much different at present compared to the USPS era.
 
May 26, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
I know you like to try and tag team, but you might want to let 'sniper' fight his own corner, because even if riders do a 'Bassons' (whatever arbitary spin that is) 'sniper' said upthread:
It never stopped you jumping in with yer bags of pendatism :rolleyes:
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
I know you like to try and tag team, but you might want to let 'sniper' fight his own corner, because even if riders do a 'Bassons' (whatever arbitary spin that is) 'sniper' said upthread:
:confused:
you're all over the place.
what i said upthread is something completely dfifferent from what you accused me of.

fact is, you got slippery three times in two days. can't blame benotti for noticing.

how you suggested that people of nationality x cannot have a bias pro or against people of nationality y was (painfully) hilarious. wanna elaborate on that, backtrack, or prefer to ignore it? ;)

second, you suggested i accused kittel of racism, on which i made you backtrack. backtrack noted.

third, you said that i said all cyclists dope. i showed you black on white that i don't, but you're not even man enough to acknowledge that.

And to top it, i asked you if you would be so kind to get off my balls. If you had any, you'd respect my request. i'm confident you will. you said no moderators need to intervene. please don't let them make you backtrack on that too.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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sniper said:
:confused:
you're all over the place.
what i said upthread is something completely dfifferent from what you accused me of.

fact is, you got slippery three times in two days. can't blame benotti for noticing.

how you suggested that people of nationality x cannot have a bias pro or against people of nationality y was (painfully) hilarious. wanna elaborate on that, backtrack, or prefer to ignore it? ;)

second, you suggested i accused kittel of racism, on which i made you backtrack. backtrack noted.

third, you said that i said all cyclists dope. i showed you black on white that i don't, but you're not even man enough to acknowledge that.

And to top it, i asked you if you would be so kind to get off my balls. If you had any, you'd respect my request. i'm confident you will. you said no moderators need to intervene. please don't let them make you backtrack on that too.
If it pains you that much, then report it.
Hit the little report icon in the corner, its right there.
Report the offending post (or is it posts) - make sure to include why you are reporting it, to assist them.

Until then, if you write a post that requires clarification - I will seek that. Always.
If you do not want me questioning your rambling and inconsistent posts, then make a coherent consistent post.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
If it pains you that much, then report it.
Hit the little report icon in the corner, its right there.
Report the offending post (or is it posts) - make sure to include why you are reporting it, to assist them.

Until then, if you write a post that requires clarification - I will seek that. Always.
If you do not want me questioning your rambling and inconsistent posts, then make a coherent consistent post.
as i said, if you had any, you'd respect my request, like adults do, and there'd be no need for mods.
man up doc, and be a good neighbor.

to be sure, i definitely appreciate you pointing out factual errors in my posts. there have been many such errors and there will continue to be. and if you jurk off on pointing them out, be my guest.
but really no need for all the pedantic ornament in your posts, especially when it's just opinion we're talking about.
opinions can ramble all they want. they're subjective entities. come to terms with that.

the inconsistencies these days came from you. and i pointed them out. if that pains you, i apologize.
i really am a fan of most of your posts. and i do apologize for the fact that my posts don't bring you as much joy.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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sniper said:
as i said, if you had any, you'd respect my request, like adults do, and there'd be no need for mods.
man up doc, and be a good neighbor.

to be sure, i definitely appreciate you pointing out factual errors in my posts. there have been many such errors and there will continue to be. and if you jurk off on pointing them out, be my guest.
but really no need for all the pedantic ornament in your posts, especially when it's just opinion we're talking about.
opinions can ramble all they want. they're subjective entities. come to terms with that.

the inconsistencies these days came from you. and i pointed them out. if that pains you, i apologize.
i really am a fan of most of your posts. and i do apologize for the fact that my posts don't bring you as much joy.
But I don't respect your 'request'.
This is a not very subtle attempt at silencing me.

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to strip it apart
and show that the only thing that you have in this discussion is a working internet connection.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
But I don't respect your 'request'..
yeah, i've taken note of that.

not trying to silence you, by the way.
didn't i just say i like most of your posts? just that i don't see any need for all the pedantic ornament. be a gent for once.

or don't, of course. free country.
 
Escarabajo said:
Colombians dope also. Don't worry I am not naive.

At least Quintana showed his huge talent early in life and has been consistent at any time of the year, in any country, on any weather at any age.

Do Froome and Porte meet this basic criteria?
Basic criteria?! HA! And you claim not to be naive?

Yeah, because everyone is the same and everyone's career trajectory must be exactly the same as Quintana's to prove themselves clean since he is the base model for clean athletes, right?

Come on.

Let's look at it from another point of view. Quintana comes from simple conditions and is born in a poor country with (presumably) a lack of coordinated national testing where making it would be life changing. Incentive to dope? Hell yes.
 

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