Movistar

[Ferminal]

When did Unzue stop doping though?

Probably the same time as Weltz, Zabel, O'Grady, Julich, CVV, Zabriskie, Danielson, Leipheimer.

 

[sittingbison]

Probably the same time as Weltz, Zabel, O'Grady, Julich, CVV, Zabriskie, Danielson, Leipheimer.

Not so Fermi.

Julich CVV Dave Z, Tommy D and Bottle all stopped in 2006

Stuey only inhaled ONCE before the 1998 TdF

Apparently Eric has never stopped even though he is retired

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

When did Unzue stop doping though?

early 2000 surly. probably even earlier. theree hasn't been team doping in banesto perhaps sicne late 90s. but you are welcome to blow me away with evidence pointing otherwise...

 

[hrotha]

early 2000 surly. probably even earlier. theree hasn't been team doping in banesto perhaps sicne late 90s. but you are welcome to blow me away with evidence pointing otherwise...

Yes, which is why they sent Mancebo to Fuentes.

Outsourcing the dope =/= team having nothing to do with the dope

 

[happychappy]

I like Movistar, they make me chuckle.

 

[Benotti69]

early 2000 surly. probably even earlier. theree hasn't been team doping in banesto perhaps sicne late 90s. but you are welcome to blow me away with evidence pointing otherwise...

I suppose Valverde's twin was doing the doping

 

[hrotha]

I suppose Valverde's twin was doing the doping

Valverde's bags were from his Kelme years though.

 

[gustienordic]

I thought they continued to Banesto, he joined in 2004, so continued at Banesto I am betting.

 

[del1962]

I thought they continued to Banesto, he joined in 2004, so continued at Banesto I am betting.

Valverde rode for what is no Movistar in 2005, prior to Fuentes.

 

[hrotha]

I thought they continued to Banesto, he joined in 2004, so continued at Banesto I am betting.

He probably continued working with Fuentes, but if I'm not mistaken all the evidence we actually have on Valverde & Fuentes pertains to his Kelme days.

 

[gustienordic]

He probably continued working with Fuentes, but if I'm not mistaken all the evidence we actually have on Valverde & Fuentes pertains to his Kelme days.

Ahha, I forgot about that, it makes more sense now.

 

[Benotti69]

Moot point.

Valverde never held his hands up to say sorry for doping. Movistar Unzue hired a doper.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Moot point.

Valverde never held his hands up to say sorry for doping. Movistar Unzue hired a doper.

The WT team with the most previously banned riders on its books this year is Garmin (Danielson, Dekker, Millar, Rasmussen, Vande Velde, Zabriskie).

Movistar can't be too far behind though (Costa*, Valverde, Ventoso, Visconti). Worth noting that 1 of those 4 was not banned for doping but for using a banned doctor (not that that doesn't imply the former of course) and another saw the ban overturned as they were innocent, at least of the charge being leveled at them. Worth noting Plaza's history too, of course. I'm sure some nasty people who like to convict without evidence will point to Cobo too.

Maybe we're seeing the start of a step-up in terms of programs, I don't know, but it's been acknowledged for a while that Abarcá are more a 'don't ask don't tell' team, fairly conservative in terms of how much they involve themselves with what the riders are doing. They seem to have a couple of hands in several scandals rather than one big team-wide scandal. Mancebo and Valverde were named in Puerto (plus they signed Plaza and Zaballa), Moreno and Luísle with Losa, and so on, but if we don't count Costa's overturned supplements positive, the last time one of Unzué's guys returned an AAF was 2006 with Marco Fertonani, believe it or not!

 

[roundabout]

Garmin has 3 who admitted by themselves.

Movistar?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Garmin has 3 who admitted by themselves.

Movistar?

That leaves 3, which matches up with the 3 Movistar banned riders excluding Costa

Anyway, the point of that was not to suggest Movistar are clean, as that would be an extremely silly position to take in view of the risk. It was more to indicate that "hiring a known doper" is not the be all and end all of clean team/dirty team, as Garmin may or may not be the 100% all singing/dancing clean team that JV says, but they come with a better reputation than many WT teams regardless, yet have more banned riders than all of the others.

 

[roundabout]

Dekker is more likely to be clean than Valverde though on before and after basis.

Edit: although with 3 minutes of thinking, that's a bit of a silly argument

 

[JimmyFingers]

That leaves 3, which matches up with the 3 Movistar banned riders excluding Costa

Anyway, the point of that was not to suggest Movistar are clean, as that would be an extremely silly position to take in view of the risk. It was more to indicate that "hiring a known doper" is not the be all and end all of clean team/dirty team, as Garmin may or may not be the 100% all singing/dancing clean team that JV says, but they come with a better reputation than many WT teams regardless, yet have more banned riders than all of the others.

Come on, you are showing your prejudice here Libertine, affording benefit of the doubt to one team (which I applaud btw) awhile denying it to another on similar criteria.

 

[the sceptic]

guess that means Cobo had a tailwind in 2011

 

[roundabout]

Maybe. It still reflects okay on Movistar that he is so poor there.

What doesn't reflect well is why they signed him for a second time. And for 2 years no less!!

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Maybe. It still reflects okay on Movistar that he is so poor there.

What doesn't reflect well is why they signed him for a second time. And for 2 years no less!!

dunno, the current anti doping regime is a bit more complex than just the policy of a team imo.

 

[del1962]

The thing that sticks out with Movistar though is that their leader on the road is an unrepentant doper, so this obviously causes people to be suspicious of them as a team.

 

[ToreBear]

The thing that sticks out with Movistar though is that their leader on the road is an unrepentant doper, so this obviously causes people to be suspicious of them as a team.

Catholics repent to their priests, not to their local newspaper or shadow writer.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

The thing that sticks out with Movistar though is that their leader on the road is an unrepentant doper, so this obviously causes people to be suspicious of them as a team.

Please spare me for the doped up clowns who sends out $10 press releases expressing their regrets along with "I did it all by myself" stuff.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Oh well, that's Valverde forgiven then.

 

[hrotha]

Moot point.

Valverde never held his hands up to say sorry for doping. Movistar Unzue hired a doper.

"Moot point"? FFS, I wasn't making a point that Movistar is clean or that Valverde didn't dope with them - just read my posts in this very thread. I was just clarifying a particular bit of cycling history.