Movistar

[42x16ss]

You continually choose to ignore that there is indeed a difference between a technical prologue and flat, non-technical ITT. Why is that?

Because he knows sweet f all about cycling and/or is a troll. His posting history has always been Team Sky = clean, everyone else dirty.

It's the classic British sporting mentality - they win, it's against the odds and in spite of the oppositions cheating. They lose, well, the opposition had to be cheating didn't they. The English insinuate this every time they've lost something to Australia, especially the Ashes.

 

[EnacheV]

Because he knows sweet f all about cycling and/or is a troll. His posting history has always been Team Sky = clean, everyone else dirty.

It's the classic British sporting mentality - they win, it's against the odds and in spite of the oppositions cheating. They lose, well, the opposition had to be cheating didn't they. The English insinuate this every time they've lost something to Australia, especially the Ashes.

False, False, False, False. Lol. Did you took the sceptic master class lately ?

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Because he knows sweet f all about cycling and/or is a troll. His posting history has always been Team Sky = clean, everyone else dirty.

It's the classic British sporting mentality - they win, it's against the odds and in spite of the oppositions cheating. They lose, well, the opposition had to be cheating didn't they. The English insinuate this every time they've lost something to Australia, especially the Ashes.

Sounds like an Australian inferiority complex about the British. With the exception of cricket (and possibly Rugby) most people in Britain have no interest in Australia as a sporting nation. In Australia though it seems a whole culture has been build around beating the British at anything. They continually feel the need to measure themselves against them. I assume it is a colonial thing?

Much like England thinking there is a huge rivalry with the Germans at football when in fact the Germans don't really care. Beating the Dutch (and the Italians) is a much bigger deal.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

From Puerto to his ban in 2010, Piti was a wanted man. Yet he kept putting in the results and never tested positive. His results in the Ruta del Sol are not incommensurate with the results he was putting out in that period. Whatever he was doing in that period of time was obviously working, so why not go back to it? It's not like he's suddenly started performing out of the ordinary for Valverde. He's just being Valverde and been given a route highly suited to his "win-the-sprint-at-the-top-of-the-mountain" speciality. I don't see that he's doing anything overly outrageous for a guy with his results. This isn't a new level of smackdownery, this is just the old level of smackdownery served with a nod and a wink from a guy everybody knows is shady.

He even beat Leipheimer and Evans in a longer Dauphiné timetrial in those years

 

[BYOP88]

Sounds like an Australian inferiority complex about the British. With the exception of cricket (and possibly Rugby) most people in Britain have no interest in Australia as a sporting nation. In Australia though it seems a whole culture has been build around beating the British at anything. They continually feel the need to measure themselves against them. I assume it is a colonial thing?

Much like England thinking there is a huge rivalry with the Germans at football when in fact the Germans don't really care. Beating the Dutch (and the Italians) is a much bigger deal.

Can I just ask why you refer to it as Britain/British? Just wondering because the Welsh and Scottish people I know when I've asked if they're Welsh/Scottish or British they reply with Welsh or Scottish but the English people I know reply with British. Are the English ashamed of being English and that's why they 'invented' the British thing?

 

[hektoren]

Piti is accelerating away 300 meters from the finishing line like a boss. Only thing he can do, but he is damn good at it #respect

uttered by a guy who gets his nick from another dirty doper, I'm not overly surprised, but RESPECT towards Piti? That'll be the day! Unless Piti decides to come clean, which he'll never do as a revered rider among his homies, regardless, I have nothing but scorn, disdain and an intense wish for him to be on the receiving end of forced Bee-you-double Gee-ery.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

EnacheV

I fully understand your frustration, yes their are plenty of hypoctitical trolls who moan on about Sky who are quite happy to support riders with a known doping past

I think that a Fuentes client like Valverde while unrepentant should not be racing and that his mere prescence on the team as their star detracts from the team

But I think you are reading too much into one prologue and Moreno as a rider from Andalucia could be given it that bick extra for this one race

Valverde has to be my least favorite cyclist. Even Froome and Wiggins aren't that annoying. He guy is the poster child for doping.

He's about as transparent as Europcar's magical Tour in 2011.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Can I just ask why you refer to it as Britain/British? Just wondering because the Welsh and Scottish people I know when I've asked if they're Welsh/Scottish or British they reply with Welsh or Scottish but the English people I know reply with British. Are the English ashamed of being English and that's why they 'invented' the British thing?

Because the poster who I was replying to called it the 'classic British sporting mentality'.
Most people I know who are English would probably reply English but then I can see why it is easier for (English) people to say British as

i) They are the majority
ii) Many people from overseas (esp. outside of Europe) equate British and English as the same.

Interestingly enough when I was travelling some of the (few) Americans I met preferred to claim they were Canadians as they were worried Americans were so disliked. Apparently pinning a Canadian flag to backpacks was not uncommon.

 

[BYOP88]

Because the poster who I was replying to called it the 'classic British sporting mentality'.
Most people I know who are English would probably reply English but then I can see why it is easier for (English) people to say British as

i) They are the majority
ii) Many people from overseas (esp. outside of Europe) equate British and English as the same.

Interestingly enough when I was travelling some of the (few) Americans I met preferred to claim they were Canadians as they were worried Americans were so disliked. Apparently pinning a Canadian flag to backpacks was not uncommon.

Thanks for the answer. Wasn't an attack and if it came across as one, I aplolgize.

 

[Parrulo]

At least we known for sure Valverde was born with a god given talent to win bike races (inb4 piti was doping as an 11-14 year old claims).

Honestly Valverde gets bashed all the time, but when was the last time he won a big race? 2009? and when was the last time he truly dominated a race/stage/classic? The Ventoux stage of the 09 Tour when everyone except him was thinking about the Tour?

Saying that Valverde, a guy that has never even managed to top 5 the Tour, only won one GT (in a very non dominant way) and hasn't won a major classic since 2008, is the poster child for doping and more annoying than Froome and Wiggins seems like some pretty messed up logic to me. Particularly when you take into account his junior racing record.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

valverde is definitely clean now. one only has to look at him at age 23 in kelme durin g the vuelta's to see his ridiuclous level there and how he is now.

 

[Netserk]

valverde is definitely clean now. one only has to look at him at age 23 in kelme durin g the vuelta's to see his ridiuclous level there and how he is now.

Do you even believe in what you write yourself?

 

[Escarabajo]

I believe that Valverde is talented.

I also believe that he is clean because he showers everyday.

Comparing today's results with the values when he was in Kelme could be missleading given the fact that Kelme had a widespread doping program back then.

The better approach is to check his Junior results. It does not say is clean completely but at least it will show you how talented he was.

 

[roundabout]

No point in checking junior results without the appropriate context.

 

[Benotti69]

Doesn't matter how talented a rider is, if he dopes, he is a cheat. If he dopes a little he is still a cheat. Talent is no justification for being a doper.

 

[will10]

No point in checking junior results without the appropriate context.

Exactly.

Has anyone ever been as dominant at U23 level as Thomas Dekker was? Now we know why. Context.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

No point in checking junior results without the appropriate context.

Depends how junior and u23 we're going. I believe Valverde when he was 11 years old and his string of unbeaten races as a kid began, was clean. I believe Valverde when he was 23 and he podiumed the Vuelta while riding for Kelme, was up to his eyeballs.

At some point in that progression he stopped being carried by talent alone. But where? Valverde's rise was almost continuous, but somewhere along that line doping happened. Therefore we know that Valverde was a talented guy but we don't have tabs on exactly where the limitations of his talent lie.

The problem is, people have been trying to make out like Valverde is doing something out of the ordinary, and ludicrously blatant, this week. He hasn't. One glance at his palmarès would tell you that. And his climbing performance was under the magic 6W/kg that we've been told to believe is a limit, whereas Froome's on Jebel al-Akhdar was far in excess of that. Piti has won a technical prologue, and sprinted away at the top of two climbs, one short and one medium in length. That's what Valverde does. It's kind of his thing.

The only thing that Alejandro Valverde is doing this week that suggests he is doping is having the name Alejandro Valverde, because that name is forever indelibly associated with doping. He's not doing something that Valverde wouldn't normally do, he's not outperforming expectations, he's just being Valverde, and that's enough for people to suspect him.

However, since more or less everybody would agree Valverde is doping, I don't really understand why any conversation has arisen on the subject, because it's not like Movistar have suddenly jumped up a level in megadoping from what we've seen this season; Nairo Quintana won a stage race against a mixed level field by being the best climber - big shock, he's only the 2nd best climber in the world. Malori won a mid-length ITT - not shocking, the field wasn't the strongest, and if Phinney didn't have a good day he was clearly the best TTer left in the field. Let's wait until they do something genuinely remarkably out of the ordinary for them before we leap on them. Something like having four left on the front when the bunch is down to single figures, perhaps. That isn't their calling card.

 

[hrotha]

Wasn't Valverde rather average as a U23 at first? Problem is, even if I'm not mistaken, the jump from junior to U23 is reputed to be the biggest leap during someone's career, even above that from U23 to pro.

 

[roundabout]

The story goes that his results suffered because he rode for Banesto which was based far from his home.

That's one of examples of context when judging talent.

 

[martinvickers]

Can I just ask why you refer to it as Britain/British? Just wondering because the Welsh and Scottish people I know when I've asked if they're Welsh/Scottish or British they reply with Welsh or Scottish but the English people I know reply with British. Are the English ashamed of being English and that's why they 'invented' the British thing?

Is that an alley you REALLY want to go down ;-)

Look at the little flags on the Sky suits...Froome's wearing a Union flag - Stannard, Thomas, Kennaugh...aren't.

 

[martinvickers]

Valverde has to be my least favorite cyclist. Even Froome and Wiggins aren't that annoying. He guy is the poster child for doping.

He's about as transparent as Europcar's magical Tour in 2011.

Here's the mad thing. I quite like the guy.

LOATHE his background, HATE his attitude to doping, Wished he's been banned for life years ago...but something in me warms to the guy himself. Bonkers, I know.

 

[martinvickers]

Doesn't matter how talented a rider is, if he dopes, he is a cheat. If he dopes a little he is still a cheat. Talent is no justification for being a doper.

Jesus wept, we agree! I might have to sit down....

 

[42x16ss]

Jesus wept, we agree! I might have to sit down....

If you look at most clinic posters histories, you'll find agreement. It's just that some people stand up for certain suspicious performances and riders a little more than others...

 

[happychappy]

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Quintana not even panting after crossing the line. bahahahaha. Chatting with the guy in the car. No problemo.