Teams & Riders Nairo Quintana discussion thread

[hrotha]

Re:

Quintana is smart

That's the crux of our disagreement.

He doesn't spend energy on useless attacks

He doesn't spend it on useful attacks all that much either.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Quintana is smart

That's the crux of our disagreement.

He doesn't spend energy on useless attacks

He doesn't spend it on useful attacks all that much either.

You are referring to his TdF, I see. I made a long post about that a few pages back, I dont really go over that again, but basically I said he obviously should have been more aggressive in the last week. Especially at the La Touissuire-stage, but its also fair to to point fingers at him at Pra Loup. Other than that, I think Quintana is a smart rider, yes.

 

[KyoGrey]

Re:

Ugh, the Nairo-hate.. and people are also clever enough on this forum to give Alejandro a bit as well, something which he surely hasn't deserved based on his last couple of years.

Quintana is smart. He doesn't spend energy on useless attacks like Contador sometimes does, sometimes it even seems like he races for his fans, but strikes when the opportunity is there and he feels he can actually drop the rest. Basically what SeriousSam noted.

I also do think its important to remember Quintana was one of the most aggressive in last year's Vuelta, despite not being too good. He basically tried every time he felt well, funny how these things have forgotten. Its also funny that he just left Contador in the dust 2 weeks earlier.

I certainly don't remember that. BTW, it's not like people were born Quintana-haters. I think it is fair to say that we all cycling fans were Quintana lovers and cheering the return of the quintaessential climber back to cycling in 2010-2013.

It's Quintana's actions and racing that made me change my opinion.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Ugh, the Nairo-hate.. and people are also clever enough on this forum to give Alejandro a bit as well, something which he surely hasn't deserved based on his last couple of years.

Quintana is smart. He doesn't spend energy on useless attacks like Contador sometimes does, sometimes it even seems like he races for his fans, but strikes when the opportunity is there and he feels he can actually drop the rest. Basically what SeriousSam noted.

I also do think its important to remember Quintana was one of the most aggressive in last year's Vuelta, despite not being too good. He basically tried every time he felt well, funny how these things have forgotten. Its also funny that he just left Contador in the dust 2 weeks earlier.

I certainly don't remember that. BTW, it's not like people were born Quintana-haters. I think it is fair to say that we all cycling fans were Quintana lovers and cheering the return of the quintaessential climber back to cycling in 2010-2013.

It's Quintana's actions and racing that made me change my opinion.

Fair point. But apart from his Tour de France 2015, I fail to see what he is so heavily criticised for?

If I remember correctly, he was the first who opened on the first hill top when Chaves won. Then he got sick and struggled for a while, attacked again on the joke of a HC-climb on stage 14, attacked in the bottom of Sotres Cabrales the next day (while the rest of the favourites where jerking off) and the last day. That's more than anyone in top-10 apart from Aru in that boring Vuelta IMO.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

Ugh, the Nairo-hate.. and people are also clever enough on this forum to give Alejandro a bit as well, something which he surely hasn't deserved based on his last couple of years.

Quintana is smart. He doesn't spend energy on useless attacks like Contador sometimes does, sometimes it even seems like he races for his fans, but strikes when the opportunity is there and he feels he can actually drop the rest. Basically what SeriousSam noted.

I also do think its important to remember Quintana was one of the most aggressive in last year's Vuelta, despite not being too good. He basically tried every time he felt well, funny how these things have forgotten. Its also funny that he just left Contador in the dust 2 weeks earlier.

I certainly don't remember that. BTW, it's not like people were born Quintana-haters. I think it is fair to say that we all cycling fans were Quintana lovers and cheering the return of the quintaessential climber back to cycling in 2010-2013.

It's Quintana's actions and racing that made me change my opinion.

Fair point. But apart from his Tour de France 2015, I fail to see what he is so heavily criticised for?

If I remember correctly, he was the first who opened on the first hill top when Chaves won. Then he got sick and struggled for a while, attacked again on the joke of a HC-climb on stage 14, attacked in the bottom of Sotres Cabrales the next day (while the rest of the favourites where jerking off) and the last day. That's more than anyone in top-10 apart from Aru in that boring Vuelta IMO.

criticising for the 2015 tour is hilarious. everyone is utterly perspicacious when making conclusions in hindsight, on the road that's much more difficult. for sure, to require nairito to attack earlier than 6km far out the summit of toussuire is elementary as you already know the final outcome by now. BUT froome hadn't shown any symptom of weakness by that time and that's what many people refuse to notice.

 

[hrotha]

We're all well aware that Froome had shown no serious signs of weakness. We're also well aware that there was no way what Quintana did was ever going to work. If he had a chance at all, he would have needed to go earlier. He didn't, so we can say he didn't really give it a try - he only moved when he was confident he wasn't really taking any risks. Simple as that.

 

[KyoGrey]

Re: Re:

Ugh, the Nairo-hate.. and people are also clever enough on this forum to give Alejandro a bit as well, something which he surely hasn't deserved based on his last couple of years.

Quintana is smart. He doesn't spend energy on useless attacks like Contador sometimes does, sometimes it even seems like he races for his fans, but strikes when the opportunity is there and he feels he can actually drop the rest. Basically what SeriousSam noted.

I also do think its important to remember Quintana was one of the most aggressive in last year's Vuelta, despite not being too good. He basically tried every time he felt well, funny how these things have forgotten. Its also funny that he just left Contador in the dust 2 weeks earlier.

I certainly don't remember that. BTW, it's not like people were born Quintana-haters. I think it is fair to say that we all cycling fans were Quintana lovers and cheering the return of the quintaessential climber back to cycling in 2010-2013.

It's Quintana's actions and racing that made me change my opinion.

Fair point. But apart from his Tour de France 2015, I fail to see what he is so heavily criticised for?

If I remember correctly, he was the first who opened on the first hill top when Chaves won. Then he got sick and struggled for a while, attacked again on the joke of a HC-climb on stage 14, attacked in the bottom of Sotres Cabrales the next day (while the rest of the favourites where jerking off) and the last day. That's more than anyone in top-10 apart from Aru in that boring Vuelta IMO.

I'm not the kind of guy that is able to call from the top of the head all the races past. But just to give you an example, I remember myself watching the Giro 2014 at home, the Zoncolan stage and thinking:
"Oh at least he surely is going to attack here in last climb of the race, to show who is the strongest rider and to shut up all the crítics of the Stelvio-gate".
He never did. He rode up the hardest climb in pro cycling like a sister of charity, just poker facing opponents. Why? Why not just go for it if you are the strongest? Why not just give the best of yourself?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

quintana is a killer. he won't waste any energy to win races. nor will he do this coming tour. quintana, won that giro icecold by only having to dig deep twice (and of course during his sickness), which where the 2nd part of the mountain itt and the stage he won and took pink.

quintana wanted to do the double in 2014(giro vuelta), and knows it's key to not waste energy. if there's one rider capable of doing the double, even the giro-tour double it will be quintana.

 

[KyoGrey]

Re:

quintana is a killer. he won't waste any energy to win races. nor will he do this coming tour. quintana, won that giro icecold by only having to dig deep twice (and of course during his sickness), which where the 2nd part of the mountain itt and the stage he won and took pink.

quintana wanted to do the double in 2014(giro vuelta), and knows it's key to not waste energy. if there's one rider capable of doing the double, even the giro-tour double it will be quintana.

What is the base of your arguments to conclude that he is the only one capable of that?

Past experiences have shown us that Giro-Tour double is pretty much imposible nowadays.

While Giro-vuelta double may be doable for a bunch of GT riders.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

my base is how great he still rode last years vuelta despite his tour. I haven't seen a rider do that well in a back to back gt since probably pantani

 

[blackmamba]

Re:

Ugh, the Nairo-hate..

*

What do you expect when the guy has a climbing talent almost on par with Contador and the best but rides like Jan Ullrich

Even worse he seems to be okei with second places. Thats UGH!!

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Ugh, the Nairo-hate.. and people are also clever enough on this forum to give Alejandro a bit as well, something which he surely hasn't deserved based on his last couple of years.

Quintana is smart. He doesn't spend energy on useless attacks like Contador sometimes does, sometimes it even seems like he races for his fans, but strikes when the opportunity is there and he feels he can actually drop the rest. Basically what SeriousSam noted.

I also do think its important to remember Quintana was one of the most aggressive in last year's Vuelta, despite not being too good. He basically tried every time he felt well, funny how these things have forgotten. Its also funny that he just left Contador in the dust 2 weeks earlier.

I certainly don't remember that. BTW, it's not like people were born Quintana-haters. I think it is fair to say that we all cycling fans were Quintana lovers and cheering the return of the quintaessential climber back to cycling in 2010-2013.

It's Quintana's actions and racing that made me change my opinion.

I was a lover until Stelviogate. I'm not a hater, just no longer a fan, there is a difference.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Ugh, the Nairo-hate..

*

What do you expect when the guy has a climbing talent almost on par with Contador and the best but rides like Jan Ullrich

Even worse he seems to be okei with second places. Thats UGH!!

His climbing talent is on par with Contador's

 

[Isaak-Gabriel]

Re:

my base is how great he still rode last years vuelta despite his tour. I haven't seen a rider do that well in a back to back gt since probably pantani

Sastre 2008 ?

 

[blackmamba]

Re: Re:

Ugh, the Nairo-hate..

*

What do you expect when the guy has a climbing talent almost on par with Contador and the best but rides like Jan Ullrich

Even worse he seems to be okei with second places. Thats UGH!!

His climbing talent is on par with Contador's

Just admit it you like the guy I get that but you want him to be a tad more agressive yourself even tho he might not be here to win if that was the case TEST your legs see where your at if nothing else. But he almost never does always just follows and IF he attacks its only a defensive attack in the last KM when he knows he wont pay for it. Say what you want but hes the definition of a defensive rider no matter how you look at it and dont come with that its smart etc we all saw a nice example of how smart that was in the TDF...

All this is okei I dont like it particualy but I cant dislike a guy who rides with a different approach necessarily but whats UGH is that he seem to be ok with second places which make me not like him....

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

Ugh, the Nairo-hate..

*

What do you expect when the guy has a climbing talent almost on par with Contador and the best but rides like Jan Ullrich

Even worse he seems to be okei with second places. Thats UGH!!

His climbing talent is on par with Contador's

Just admit it you like the guy I get that but you want him to be a tad more agressive yourself even tho he might not be here to win if that was the case TEST your legs see where your at if nothing else. But he almost never does always just follows and IF he attacks its only a defensive attack in the last KM when he knows he wont pay for it. Say what you want but hes the definition of a defensive rider no matter how you look at it and dont come with that its smart etc we all saw a nice example of how smart that was in the TDF...

All this is okei I dont like it particualy but I cant dislike a guy who rides with a different approach necessarily but whats UGH is that he seem to be ok with second places which make me not like him....

and yet you do like froome right?

 

[blackmamba]

Honestly Froome's riding I like and respect very much. Aint afraid to attack even tho he dont always needs to cause of the TT ability, so I would understand it more if he wheelsuck, but he dont he even attacks and rides very offensive when hes the strongest and I respect and like that!

To sum it up he rides to win aswell and goes all in for that and dont care for second places.

 

[hrotha]

Froome is quite entertaining to watch when he's not in the lead. He's pretty aggressive.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Yes, obviously I like him, blackmamba. As much as you like Contador. If we didn't care, if we weren't subjective, if we weren't fans, we wouldn't have this debate, heck, we wouldn't even have signed in on this forum. There is a reason why there are so many passionate fans on this site.

I still think Quintana is a smart rider and I have said what needs to be said about his Tour in 2015.

 

[blackmamba]

Re:

Yes, obviously I like him, blackmamba. As much as you like Contador. If we didn't care, if we weren't subjective, if we weren't fans, we wouldn't have this debate, heck, we wouldn't even have signed in on this forum. There is a reason why there are so many passionate fans on this site.

I still think Quintana is a smart rider and I have said what needs to be said about his Tour in 2015.

Fair enough but I respectfully disagree and think Quintana would achieve more if he was more agressive.

If hes really on par with Contador climbing talent, thats why I wrote almost cause im not sure he is only beacuse he dont do it as much he do it sometimes occasionaly and I dont know if its beacuse the other times he cant do it(beacuse usually those times he seems to follow wheels quite well) or its beacuse of the defensive approach, anyway thats just my 2 cent on it!

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

how can anyone be a fan of a rider who sits on a bike like froome does. it actually makes me physically aggressive watching him ride. it's a kick in the balls to all cycling fans and cyclists

 

[blackmamba]

Re:

how can anyone be a fan of a rider who sits on a bike like froome does. it actually makes me physically aggressive watching him ride. it's a kick in the balls to all cycling fans and cyclists

I hope you didnt mistake my post with me beeing a fan of Froome cause im totally not, for me something is off about Froome.

That beeing said I very much respect and admire him beacuse of his riding, he rides to win and leaves it all on the ground! I cant help but respect that even tho im not a fan.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re: Re:

how can anyone be a fan of a rider who sits on a bike like froome does. it actually makes me physically aggressive watching him ride. it's a kick in the balls to all cycling fans and cyclists

I hope you didnt mistake my post with me beeing a fan of Froome cause im totally not, for me something is off about Froome.

That beeing said I very much respect and admire him beacuse of his riding, he rides to win and leaves it all on the ground! I cant help but respect that even tho im not a fan.

no I mean in general. I read a few posts here positively describing froome as a rider and I thought I throw this in

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

how can anyone be a fan of a rider who sits on a bike like froome does. it actually makes me physically aggressive watching him ride. it's a kick in the balls to all cycling fans and cyclists

I hope you didnt mistake my post with me beeing a fan of Froome cause im totally not, for me something is off about Froome.

That beeing said I very much respect and admire him beacuse of his riding, he rides to win and leaves it all on the ground! I cant help but respect that even tho im not a fan.

He is not even exposing himself that much to riding. That defeats your sentence. He needs to ride more. And I mean not off the back.

 

[hrotha]

Froome is an affront to everything that's pure and beautiful in this world, but one thing he ain't is conformist/conservative, which is what was being implied here.