Teams & Riders Nairo Quintana discussion thread

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Mollema's reaction says enough. He said Froome and Porte weren't really riding away fast from the group. He was too far back to react initially but when he saw they weren't pulling away so hard, he attacked and joined.

If Quintana can't follow a Froome clearly not in ultimate form.. then that's worrying.

 

[RattaKuningas]

Re:

Mollema's reaction says enough. He said Froome and Porte weren't really riding away fast from the group. He was too far back to react initially but when he saw they weren't pulling away so hard, he attacked and joined.

If Quintana can't follow a Froome clearly not in ultimate form.. then that's worrying.

I think Quintana will be back to his best on stages with multiple mountains and much less exposed flats with crosswinds.

 

[portugal11]

He is fu#ked. Tomorrow, tt will have strong crosswinds and headwinds

 

[Ramon Koran]

Awfull so far, has been going backwards since 2013. Remember his attack on ventoux that year, or his attack in pailhers, his third week climbing in the alps? That guy would of won the tour hands down this year. But he's gone backwards since, average in the 2014 Giro not good enough last year agaist harldy the strongest Froome ever, and this year he's just been awful. Lack of motivation?, I don't know, one things for sure with the likes of the Yates, Lopez, Bardet, Chaves all improving drasticly he could become another Schelck with half the talent. If he doesn't win this year (andI don't think he will), I really can't see him winning a Tour ever.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Awfull so far, has been going backwards since 2013. Remember his attack on ventoux that year, or his attack in pailhers, his third week climbing in the alps? That guy would of won the tour hands down this year. But he's gone backwards since, average in the 2014 Giro not good enough last year agaist harldy the strongest Froome ever, and this year he's just been awful. Lack of motivation?, I don't know, one things for sure with the likes of the Yates, Lopez, Bardet, Chaves all improving drasticly he could become another Schelck with half the talent. If he doesn't win this year (andI don't think he will), I really can't see him winning a Tour ever.

He has been very good in the spring this year, as a matter of fact, he has had his best spring ever.

Lets wait and see the end result before too much stock into it. Riders are not machines, sometimes, they dont perform as we expected them too. Its perfectly fine if he finds his legs in the last week.

 

[TomekA]

I disagree, there wasn't much progress from 2013 to 2014 and from 2014 to 2015 - ok, but this year his spring was better than before, he won 2 WT races, Catalunya and Romandie. Before the Tour I really thought that he has made that last necessary step.

Something is wrong here, because not only Froome is better than him.

 

[Ramon Koran]

Yes his spring was incredible (maybe that is part of the problem), but lets not ignore his gt performances have actually been decreasing every year in GT's, I know he climbed alpe d'huez faster in 2015 than 2013 but different circumstances... He needs to take a look at himself in the mirror, ditch the passive style and grow some balls. His 26 ffs, he's been good since 20 all it takes is an injury like happened to Andy or a superpowerful rider to appear like happened to Ulrich and his career becomes a huge underachievement. I remeber in 2013 I was so impressed by him and his riding style I wonder if leadership and pressure has teken it's toll?
Any way I'm not a huge fan but I still want him to succeed, to many times super talents have underachieved leaving ourselves asking questions I don't want him to be another one.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Once again with the TT we will see the same situation as before. Quintana 2 mins down before 3rd week and most likely the same result as before. Quintana has been cracked and will need to regain strength. Unfortunately for him tomorrow is the TT. The race of truth, no hiding behind teammates or any wheel sucking.
What is inexplicable is that why he attacked. On Arcalis he wheelsucked the entire time. Yesterday his energy was sapped due to the wind which his teammates forgot to properly protect him from due to improper team selection. Today he knew that it was windy and probably a headwind/crosswind. Why does he have to attack? This is the time to completely wheelsuck like a sprinter whereas on Arcalis he should have attacked. While It was clear that the level shown on Ventoux was not the correct Quintana level, He looks mentally and physically worn out before the 3rd week. Bad decisions.

 

[SeriousSam]

The problems is watts, not balls

 

[carton]

Re:

Lets wait and see the end result before too much stock into it. Riders are not machines, sometimes, they dont perform as we expected them too. Its perfectly fine if he finds his legs in the last week.

Maybe. But again, it was utter madness to attack today. Unipublic stage, crosswinds, he wasted so much more energy than Froome or Mollema in the lead-in. Sheer, unadulterated hubris. But well, after Stage 10 last year and Stage 12 this year maybe next year he waits until stage 14 before losing 2 minutes to Froome in a blaze of ignominy.

The problems is watts, not balls

Nah, in the CyclingNews Forums, you can will yourself into growing 6 more inches.

 

[Cookster15]

Re:

Yes his spring was incredible (maybe that is part of the problem), but lets not ignore his gt performances have actually been decreasing every year in GT's, I know he climbed alpe d'huez faster in 2015 than 2013 but different circumstances... He needs to take a look at himself in the mirror, ditch the passive style and grow some balls. His 26 ffs, he's been good since 20 all it takes is an injury like happened to Andy or a superpowerful rider to appear like happened to Ulrich and his career becomes a huge underachievement. I remeber in 2013 I was so impressed by him and his riding style I wonder if leadership and pressure has teken it's toll?
Any way I'm not a huge fan but I still want him to succeed, to many times super talents have underachieved leaving ourselves asking questions I don't want him to be another one.

Yes Quintana is just 26 years old but lack of aggression isn't the issue this time. At this age you do the same preparation and you will get stronger - its called natural progression. Aggression isn't the issue there can only be a problem with his preparation. If he was better prepared he could be more aggressive. But even if Nairo was timing to peak for the 3rd week he'd be looking better than we've seen today and at Arcalis. I hope he improves for the Alpes but it doesn't look good.

 

[Enrico Gimondi]

Nairo needs to ditch the whole "living and training in altitude" life that we hear so much about and try something else because it clearly isn't working. like IndianCyclist said, he's going to lose time in the TT and be down 2-3 minutes. Then he'll climb good in the last week when its too late. Froome will watch him and let him stretch the leash a little but not get too far. And everyone will be talking about how a few moments early in the tour (which he brought on himself) cost him time, and he was excelling in the third week. It is the same story over and over again.

 

[carton]

Re:

Nairo needs to ditch the whole "living and training in altitude" life that we hear so much about and try something else because it clearly isn't working. like IndianCyclist said, he's going to lose time in the TT and be down 2-3 minutes. Then he'll climb good in the last week when its too late. Froome will watch him and let him stretch the leash a little but not get too far. And everyone will be talking about how a few moments early in the tour (which he brought on himself) cost him time, and he was excelling in the third week. It is the same story over and over again.

He needs to move to Ghent and become a classics specialist.

Once he wins Roubaix a few times and internalizes that Aggression is more important than Watts he can go back to the Tour.

 

[Ramon Koran]

Re: Re:

Yes his spring was incredible (maybe that is part of the problem), but lets not ignore his gt performances have actually been decreasing every year in GT's, I know he climbed alpe d'huez faster in 2015 than 2013 but different circumstances... He needs to take a look at himself in the mirror, ditch the passive style and grow some balls. His 26 ffs, he's been good since 20 all it takes is an injury like happened to Andy or a superpowerful rider to appear like happened to Ulrich and his career becomes a huge underachievement. I remeber in 2013 I was so impressed by him and his riding style I wonder if leadership and pressure has teken it's toll?
Any way I'm not a huge fan but I still want him to succeed, to many times super talents have underachieved leaving ourselves asking questions I don't want him to be another one.

Yes Quintana is just 26 years old but lack of aggression isn't the issue this time. At this age you do the same preparation and you will get stronger - its called natural progression. Aggression isn't the issue there can only be a problem with his preparation. If he was better prepared he could be more aggressive. But even if Nairo was timing to peak for the 3rd week he'd be looking better than we've seen today and at Arcalis. I hope he improves for the Alpes but it doesn't look good.

True champions attack even when they are not the strongest think Froome 2014 Vuelta, ALberto in 2013 Tour, 2011 Tour... I don't care if he's not the strongest agression can win bike races (ae 2012 Vuelta), much like poker it's imprtant to be agressive when you have a hand even if it's not the strongest because otherwise you won't know. Do you honestly think ALberto at 2015 Quintana level would have finished second? No way he would have found a way to win by agression... It's something that you need Nibli at the giro won by being agressive by attacking in the descents forcing error, Pantani inthe 2000 tour put Lance into crisis and almost made him lose the tour. Nairo is to content in being passive unless your a great tt'ist you don't win by being passive end of story. Yes watts are important but an agressive strategy can makke you win races you aren't the best at.

 

[Big Doopie]

there is a reason you have a few long flat stages in a GT.

they may seem boring, but GTs are supposed to test recovery, stamina, etc...

Long flat stages also take much more out little light climbers than anyone else.

when the colombians first came over in the 80s, hinault's tactic was to run them ragged over the flat stages so that they could no longer make the difference in the mountains once the peloton arrived there, because they were worn out.

that is probably what has happened to quintana.

there shouls always be those boring 200+ Km flat stages, because they are specifically part of the "accumulation of efforts" that are required of a GT rider.

They have already eliminated almost all (at least flat) TTs. GT riding has been steadily shifted to advantage the climber.

I said last year - when there was no ITT at all basically - that if quintana couldn't win that year, how the hell will he ever win?

but - honestly - that is as it should be - GTs should not be won by a pure climber. it's why the Vuelta has been ridiculous in the last few years.

and it's why the Tour is still the hardest of them all.

 

[Arnout]

Re: Re:

Yes his spring was incredible (maybe that is part of the problem), but lets not ignore his gt performances have actually been decreasing every year in GT's, I know he climbed alpe d'huez faster in 2015 than 2013 but different circumstances... He needs to take a look at himself in the mirror, ditch the passive style and grow some balls. His 26 ffs, he's been good since 20 all it takes is an injury like happened to Andy or a superpowerful rider to appear like happened to Ulrich and his career becomes a huge underachievement. I remeber in 2013 I was so impressed by him and his riding style I wonder if leadership and pressure has teken it's toll?
Any way I'm not a huge fan but I still want him to succeed, to many times super talents have underachieved leaving ourselves asking questions I don't want him to be another one.

Yes Quintana is just 26 years old but lack of aggression isn't the issue this time. At this age you do the same preparation and you will get stronger - its called natural progression. Aggression isn't the issue there can only be a problem with his preparation. If he was better prepared he could be more aggressive. But even if Nairo was timing to peak for the 3rd week he'd be looking better than we've seen today and at Arcalis. I hope he improves for the Alpes but it doesn't look good.

True champions attack even when they are not the strongest think Froome 2014 Vuelta, ALberto in 2013 Tour, 2011 Tour... I don't care if he's not the strongest agression can win bike races (ae 2012 Vuelta), much like poker it's imprtant to be agressive when you have a hand even if it's not the strongest because otherwise you won't know. Do you honestly think ALberto at 2015 Quintana level would have finished second? No way he would have found a way to win by agression... It's something that you need Nibli at the giro won by being agressive by attacking in the descents forcing error, Pantani inthe 2000 tour put Lance into crisis and almost made him lose the tour. Nairo is to content in being passive unless your a great tt'ist you don't win by being passive end of story. Yes watts are important but an agressive strategy can makke you win races you aren't the best at.

Maybe in some stages, not in __________/

 

[Valv.Piti]

there is a reason you have a few long flat stages in a GT.

they may seem boring, but GTs are supposed to test recovery, stamina, etc...

Long flat stages also take much more out little light climbers than anyone else.

when the colombians first came over in the 80s, hinault's tactic was to run them ragged over the flat stages so that they could no longer make the difference in the mountains once the peloton arrived there, because they were worn out.

that is probably what has happened to quintana.

there shouls always be those boring 200+ Km flat stages, because they are specifically part of the "accumulation of efforts" that are required of a GT rider.

They have already eliminated almost all (at least flat) TTs. GT riding has been steadily shifted to advantage the climber.

I said last year - when there was no ITT at all basically - that if quintana couldn't win that year, how the hell will he ever win?

but - honestly - that is as it should be - GTs should not be won by a pure climber. it's why the Vuelta has been ridiculous in the last few years.

and it's why the Tour is still the hardest of them all.

Good post and agree.

 

[perico]

I think you're seeing the same thing that happened to Herrera, in that to minimize his weaknesses and become a more comp,eye rider, Quintana has lost some of his dominance in the mountains.

 

[Taxus4a]

Today was a bad day for pure climbers as Quintana, after a very bad day for them, so I cant understad how he attacked once and again, when today he just had to follow wheels and miimize loses... He will have very good days for him to an accurate attack.

He shouldnt worry about people that dont understand about cycling who said he is not ofensive or he wanst last Tour. He must do the best race to try to win, no more, no matter what people say or if he likes fans, etc...

 

[Arnout]

Quintana should really think about his preparation next year - teating a bit of climbing in the Route du Sud is way different from doing a complete test on the flat, too. He clearly lacks stamina.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

I think you're seeing the same thing that happened to Herrera, in that to minimize his weaknesses and become a more comp,eye rider, Quintana has lost some of his dominance in the mountains.

I still think thats premature altho he surely has become more complete. 2 echelons days, one climb stage, attacked in a headwind.. many things against him. Stage 17.

 

[Ramon Koran]

Re:

Today was a bad day for pure climbers as Quintana, after a very bad day for them, so I cant understad how he attacked once and again, when today he just had to follow wheels and miimize loses... He will have very good days for him to an accurate attack.

He shouldnt worry about people that dont understand about cycling who said he is not ofensive or he wanst last Tour. He must do the best race to try to win, no more, no matter what people say or if he likes fans, etc...

Yes he needs to limit his loses but he also needs to be offensive in case be it to mask weakness or to find weakness it's that simple, problem is in the third week nairo isn't agressive enough that cost him laast year and will cost him in the future.

 

[Gigs_98]

Surely, two flat and windy stages and then a third windy stage with only one climb at the end isn't good for Quintana but is that an excuse to get dropped by Mollema, Yates, Aru, Rodriguez, Bardet and Meintjes? I mean most of those guys also are pure climbers so why was only Quintana affected. I really hope it only was a day off, otherwise the tour might already be decided but at I at least don't expect him to be as strong in the Alps as he was last year.

 

[hfer07]

Lately I've come to the conclusion that Quintana & Movistar together are approaching the Tour the wrong way, by relying heavily and exclusively on his climbing abilities alone while weighing all chances to succeed by striking back on the 3rd week. The sport has proved over and over again that aggressive riding in ALL terrains is what separates the true Champions from the pretenders i.e Hinault, -even Indurain - Contador, Nibali & now Froome.

Bottom line: If Quintana ever aspires to win Le Tour- he better upgrade his game

 

[Ataraxus]

there is a reason you have a few long flat stages in a GT.

they may seem boring, but GTs are supposed to test recovery, stamina, etc...

Long flat stages also take much more out little light climbers than anyone else.

when the colombians first came over in the 80s, hinault's tactic was to run them ragged over the flat stages so that they could no longer make the difference in the mountains once the peloton arrived there, because they were worn out.

that is probably what has happened to quintana.

there shouls always be those boring 200+ Km flat stages, because they are specifically part of the "accumulation of efforts" that are required of a GT rider.

They have already eliminated almost all (at least flat) TTs. GT riding has been steadily shifted to advantage the climber.

I said last year - when there was no ITT at all basically - that if quintana couldn't win that year, how the hell will he ever win?

but - honestly - that is as it should be - GTs should not be won by a pure climber. it's why the Vuelta has been ridiculous in the last few years.

and it's why the Tour is still the hardest of them all.

GTs should be won by pure climbers if they are so good as to gain in the mountains all the potential loss in the flat, winds, descents, ITTs and cobbles. And actually that's what most of us expect from Nairo.
He was 25 last year. He (supposedly) will win by increasing his power numbers as he approaches his peak age for a GT winner. I'm seriously doubtful that will happen, but that remains to be monitored in the forthcoming years.