Teams & Riders Nairo Quintana discussion thread

[dacooley]

all that nairo can do extremely well is climbing on multimountain stages over 3rd week when his supreme recovery come to the fore. he still can't descend and fears to go solo on flat in the wind. do you see the prospect of quintana making an effective long-range attack against sky with his set of skills? I don't, thus far.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

all that nairo can do extremely well is climbing on multimountain stages over 3rd week when his supreme recovery come to the fore. he still can't descend and fears to go solo on flat in the wind. do you see the prospect of quintana making an effective long-range attack against sky with his set of skills? I don't, thus far.

I don't either.

Long range attacks are done where everything is completely lost. I don't think we are there yet.

 

[Carols]

Re:

He took a tow. Pretty blatant, too.

Then again if they actually enforced the rules they'd have to kick Froome, Quintana, and Aru out of the tour.

I for one would love to see guys like Mollema, Yates, Porte, and Van Garderen fight it out for the victory but it seems that I'm in a very small minority.

Yeah the race was already neutralized otherwise both Froome and Nairo should be DQed. Aru had a couple sticky bottles but a commissar was right there so it never got toss worthy.

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

Quintana and Movistar have to strike on every climbing stage from now on, if they want to try to unseat Froome, every one!!! He needs to attack left and right throughout this remaining stages. First chance is Grand Colombier tomorrow. If they don't attack there, he's no longer riding for the first place. They need insane tempo on the first part of the climb, and then on the final steepest part Nairo must try to shake Froome, or at least all of his doms. Then again full throttle on the last climb. It would be useful if they send a strong rider in the break who could help between the climbs. Valverde could try himself but only to soften up Froome and Sky. Nairo is the key, if his attacks are powerful the damage will be done

If attacking meant that either you gain time or you finish exactly as if you hadn't attacked, then and only then would 'taking every opportunity' be the golden strategy so many here think it is.

QFT. One more go at this.

All the men who won five Tours (or more if you want to count Lance), were the greatest time trialists of their day. Anquetil never crossed a mountain pass in first place. No once. He won his first Tour in 1957. This isn't some new-fangled USPS strategy. This is how you win stage races. This is how four guys won 20 tours (I'm guessing five and 27 for most of you who can't seem to grasp this). The three most attacking mountain goats in memory, Pantani, Gaul, Herrera, have two between them. And Gaul was pretty good against the clock. Still, they only won when they caught lightning in a bottle.

Quintana can't win by attacking in flats and flattish downhills. He can only waste away his slender chances at winning. Is it boring, maybe. I find it less boring than a repeat of Ventoux and a Froome procession to Paris, but whatever floats your boat. But those are the options on the table. C'est la vie, folks. Trying to attack early over the top of a hill hold on to a slender lead in the flat will be completely suicidal for Quintana's chances. I would love to see him do it. Actually, I wouldn't, because the only way he can maintain a lead over Froome on the flat is he got a moto tow all the way to the next hill. Or if Froome got ill or crashed, which I'm not rooting for.

But yeah, let's get back to if only Nairo "changed his mentality" and attacked fifty times a stage a la Atapuma (he'd be attacking the broom wagon the last few times, I'm guessing) his hair will turn vandenbroucke blonde and he'll become a "Super Saiyan" and drop everyone.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

all that nairo can do extremely well is climbing on multimountain stages over 3rd week when his supreme recovery come to the fore. he still can't descend and fears to go solo on flat in the wind. do you see the prospect of quintana making an effective long-range attack against sky with his set of skills? I don't, thus far.

I don't either.

Long range attacks are done where everything is completely lost. I don't think we are there yet.

He needs to shake off Froome's doms already on Grand Colombier, and why not try to drop Froome in the process? If Movistar go full throttle on that climb, they will not make any damage on the last one. And they need every stage to attack, you never know when will you find weakness

 

[PremierAndrew]

Rumours going around that Quintana is ill?

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Rumours going around that Quintana is ill?

Where from?

I don't think they should try anything on stage 15. I think rest is the most important thing and the go bananas in stage 17, the best stage by far for Quintana.

 

[Sartorius]

Re: Re:

all that nairo can do extremely well is climbing on multimountain stages over 3rd week when his supreme recovery come to the fore. he still can't descend and fears to go solo on flat in the wind. do you see the prospect of quintana making an effective long-range attack against sky with his set of skills? I don't, thus far.

I don't either.

Long range attacks are done where everything is completely lost. I don't think we are there yet.

He needs to shake off Froome's doms already on Grand Colombier, and why not try to drop Froome in the process? If Movistar go full throttle on that climb, they will not make any damage on the last one. And they need every stage to attack, you never know when will you find weakness

That's not going to happened. Moviestar has maybe better climber domestiques on paper, but they don't peak for TdF. Whole Sky is peaking for TdF, not just Froome. Moviestar would destroy themself before Froome lose all his team mates. Moviestar needs to sacrifice Valverde to put Sky into any kind of trouble.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

all that nairo can do extremely well is climbing on multimountain stages over 3rd week when his supreme recovery come to the fore. he still can't descend and fears to go solo on flat in the wind. do you see the prospect of quintana making an effective long-range attack against sky with his set of skills? I don't, thus far.

I don't either.

Long range attacks are done where everything is completely lost. I don't think we are there yet.

He needs to shake off Froome's doms already on Grand Colombier, and why not try to drop Froome in the process? If Movistar go full throttle on that climb, they will not make any damage on the last one. And they need every stage to attack, you never know when will you find weakness

That's not going to happened. Moviestar has maybe better climber domestiques on paper, but they don't peak for TdF. Whole Sky is peaking for TdF, not just Froome. Moviestar would destroy themself before Froome lose all his team mates. Moviestar needs to sacrifice Valverde to put Sky into any kind of trouble.

Agree on that. But Movistar has to prepare his attack, otherwise it's going to be like on Mt.Ventoux...

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Rumours going around that Quintana is ill?

Where from?

I don't think they should try anything on stage 15. I think rest is the most important thing and the go bananas in stage 17, the best stage by far for Quintana.

BBC commentator mentioned it, not a particularly reliable source tho

 

[Valv.Piti]

The saddest thing is Moreno and Anacona really only have shown glimpses. They really need to be strong in the Alps if he want any chance, Quintana just can't attack with 4 Skyborgs at the front and slowly get wheeled in. They need to explode the peloton first, easier said than done.

 

[ILovecycling]

Its possible.Certainly there is something we dont know.

Its not possible with his base level to be dropped by the likes of Yates etc on freakin Mt Ventoux.
I simply dont understand that.

 

[filipepc]

The problem can be that Quintana might not be so strong as we thought. He couldn´t follow Froome, Mollema and Porte and he looked weak, more than last year. We have to wait to next stage, but if he continues without that clic, maybe it´s not possible. Another point is at wich point Valverde will give up of a top 5 for the victory of Nairo? I hope at least they try to make a good tour because in live IMPOSSIBLE IS NOTHING.The race change at any point... But sometimes you have to do something to that be possible.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

The saddest thing is Moreno and Anacona really only have shown glimpses. They really need to be strong in the Alps if he want any chance, Quintana just can't attack with 4 Skyborgs at the front and slowly get wheeled in. They need to explode the peloton first, easier said than done.

Nobody can blow apart Skytrain, ...except one man...

 

[Pantani Attacks]

When the spotlight is on Nairo always disappoints. He's been written off by virtually everyone now, and that's what he needs going into the last week. He hasn't the bottle to put aside all the attention and just go for it. It's why I think he'll never be a top cyclist looking back on this era. But when he's the underdog and nothing massive is expected of him he can deliver.

 

[bajbar]

Froome has a big advantage over Quintana due to the stages preceeding the mountains. He is simply the best when there are a couple of tough flat stages (with the wind). That is why he usually dominates the first MTF, and why he was so much better than Quintana on Ventoux. Quintana is a pure climber and needs a sequence of multi mountain stages, where he losses far less energy. On that kind of stages Froome loses more. That is why Froome has always looked weaker in the third week, since there is always a sequence of multi montain stages towards the end of the Tour. In my opinion this is why Froome is so dominant in the Tour. He is not actually a better climber than for example Quintana and Contador, but he is much stronger on the flat (at least stronger than Quintana). So he comes fresh to the (ideally for him) a single mountain MTF. Sky usually drill the tempo already on the flat and bottom of the climb. The pace is so high that the pure climber that prefer slower pace loses a huge load of energy already there...

 

[Sartorius]

Re: Re:

The saddest thing is Moreno and Anacona really only have shown glimpses. They really need to be strong in the Alps if he want any chance, Quintana just can't attack with 4 Skyborgs at the front and slowly get wheeled in. They need to explode the peloton first, easier said than done.

Nobody can blow apart Skytrain, ...except one man...

Who? Froome? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ukb2Zj2JZI :lol: :lol:

 

[damian13ster]

Re: Re:

The saddest thing is Moreno and Anacona really only have shown glimpses. They really need to be strong in the Alps if he want any chance, Quintana just can't attack with 4 Skyborgs at the front and slowly get wheeled in. They need to explode the peloton first, easier said than done.

Nobody can blow apart Skytrain, ...except one man...

Gerrans?

 

[dacooley]

Re:

Froome has a big advantage over Quintana due to the stages preceeding the mountains. He is simply the best when there are a couple of tough flat stages (with the wind). That is why he usually dominates the first MTF, and why he was so much better than Quintana on Ventoux. Quintana is a pure climber and needs a sequence of multi mountain stages, where he losses far less energy. On that kind of stages Froome loses more. That is why Froome has always looked weaker in the third week, since there is always a sequence of multi montain stages towards the end of the Tour. In my opinion this is why Froome is so dominant in the Tour. He is not actually a better climber than for example Quintana and Contador, but he is much stronger on the flat (at least stronger than Quintana). So he comes fresh to the (ideally for him) a single mountain MTF. Sky usually drill the tempo already on the flat and bottom of the climb. The pace is so high that the pure climber that prefer slower pace loses a huge load of energy already there...

the thing is that your definition is an integral part of being the best climber as well. How one can be proclaimed a superior climber if his edge gets visible only on consecutive multimountain stages? that doesn't make much sense.

On top of that, I wouldn't read into this single / multi mountain stages thingy way too much. 3 years ago Nairo was probably on par with Froome on Ventoux by attacking from 10 km to go and losing only 30 seconds. This time he simply cracked. That's really more about one's form here and now.

 

[AlexNYC]

Re: Re:

Quintana and Movistar have to strike on every climbing stage from now on, if they want to try to unseat Froome, every one!!! He needs to attack left and right throughout this remaining stages. First chance is Grand Colombier tomorrow. If they don't attack there, he's no longer riding for the first place. They need insane tempo on the first part of the climb, and then on the final steepest part Nairo must try to shake Froome, or at least all of his doms. Then again full throttle on the last climb. It would be useful if they send a strong rider in the break who could help between the climbs. Valverde could try himself but only to soften up Froome and Sky. Nairo is the key, if his attacks are powerful the damage will be done

If attacking meant that either you gain time or you finish exactly as if you hadn't attacked, then and only then would 'taking every opportunity' be the golden strategy so many here think it is.

QFT. One more go at this.

All the men who won five Tours (or more if you want to count Lance), were the greatest time trialists of their day. Anquetil never crossed a mountain pass in first place. No once. He won his first Tour in 1957. This isn't some new-fangled USPS strategy. This is how you win stage races. This is how four guys won 20 tours (I'm guessing five and 27 for most of you who can't seem to grasp this). The three most attacking mountain goats in memory, Pantani, Gaul, Herrera, have two between them. And Gaul was pretty good against the clock. Still, they only won when they caught lightning in a bottle.

Quintana can't win by attacking in flats and flattish downhills. He can only waste away his slender chances at winning. Is it boring, maybe. I find it less boring than a repeat of Ventoux and a Froome procession to Paris, but whatever floats your boat. But those are the options on the table. C'est la vie, folks. Trying to attack early over the top of a hill hold on to a slender lead in the flat will be completely suicidal for Quintana's chances. I would love to see him do it. Actually, I wouldn't, because the only way he can maintain a lead over Froome on the flat is he got a moto tow all the way to the next hill. Or if Froome got ill or crashed, which I'm not rooting for.

But yeah, let's get back to if only Nairo "changed his mentality" and attacked fifty times a stage a la Atapuma (he'd be attacking the broom wagon the last few times, I'm guessing) his hair will turn vandenbroucke blonde and he'll become a "Super Saiyan" and drop everyone.

How I wished I could make this a sticky...

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

The saddest thing is Moreno and Anacona really only have shown glimpses. They really need to be strong in the Alps if he want any chance, Quintana just can't attack with 4 Skyborgs at the front and slowly get wheeled in. They need to explode the peloton first, easier said than done.

Nobody can blow apart Skytrain, ...except one man...

Gerrans?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

The saddest thing is Moreno and Anacona really only have shown glimpses. They really need to be strong in the Alps if he want any chance, Quintana just can't attack with 4 Skyborgs at the front and slowly get wheeled in. They need to explode the peloton first, easier said than done.

Nobody can blow apart Skytrain, ...except one man...

Gerrans?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

And Im literally LMAO cuz of your avi

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I'm still very confident quintana can win this. froome has been very subpar and quintana very bad. perhaps sickness, if so he can still win, if it's bad form then I fear for it. in any event. froome will be in trouble the last week considering how weak he was at ventoux

it has nothing to do with the wind imo, because meintjes suffered more than anyone in the wind dropping everywhere but still outclimbing quintana at ventoux

 

[Arredondo]

Moreno has been a disaster for Movistar. He should have stayed with Katusha. He got plenty of opportunities there, and with the retirement of Purito, he would have got more chances.

But in this shape, he's pretty useluss for every WT-team tbh.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Moreno has been a disaster for Movistar. He should have stayed with Katusha. He got plenty of opportunities there, and with the retirement of Purito, he would have got more chances.

But in this shape, he's pretty useluss for every WT-team tbh.

Yeah, your last sentence debunks the first two; even if he had chances, he wouldn't have been able to do anything. His only good stage was the one in Massif Central and I guess he was decent at Ventoux.