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I don't disagree completely. We haven't seen Bernal's form, or what kind of peak Pinot/Thomas/Dumoulin/Roglic/Lopez etc could reach but Quintana's climbing was otherwordly. The other possibility is that he would have had (and still might) a Roglic type Tour, in which he comes in slightly overcooked and fades at the end.
Not sure he would win the Tour but of course he would be very competitive in this form. I am just so happy to see him rub Movistar's nose in it after their disgraceful treatment of him since 2016. Bravo Nairo.
His performance has been impressive. Still, the GTs require team depth more than ever. Jumba-Visma, Ineos....they have so many weapons.
I’m sure he wants to win the Tour more than I can imagine, but for me if he can just light it up on the main mtn. stapes Is be thrilled.
Cycling news - Nairo Quintana says he left Movistar because he 'wanted to be happy' - Eurosport
Nairo Quintana has revealed he left Movistar because he “wanted to be happy” and didn’t want to "wage war" with the other team leaders.
www.google.com
The stress undoubtedly played a factor in his lack of results and further shows you can have all the talent in the world but if mentally you're not there it's all for naught.
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I think he has mentioned the word happy several times in interviews whenever he has been asked about Movistar.
I think it was obvious. Even if results are not the same that rules applies pretty much to every human being.
I think it was obvious. Even if results are not the same that rules applies pretty much to every human being.
As someone who has been very critical of Quintana for years, I love this rejuvenated version of Quintana, attacking and hungry again.
I have been frustrated with Nairo in many Tour so far but after the Movistar documentary I must say I want him to win a Tour beyond anyone else..even Pinot who I am great fan of
You can see how much Quintana wants it ...beyond everything in his being
I think he will (would have been ) the strongest climber in the Tour but winning ? If he tries on a climb he has Froome, Bernal or Thomas from Ineos or Dumoulin, Roglic or Steve K to chase ..these teams are too strong
And there is still Podgcar ,Landa,Pinot , Uran Yates bros, NIbali & Allaphillipe
The stars would really need to align and given Covid 19 has scuppered his great form and given Froome & Dumoulin time to catch back up it looks like Nairo's stars have not aligned
Watching the Movistar documentary only emphasized what seemed to play out on the road: that Nairo was at odds with much of the Spanish contingent when the choice was Nairo or Landa/Valverde. That would break the competitive soul of many when the endless, painful training hours aren't enough. No one on the team has questioned Quintana's dedication from what I've seen; unlike Carapaz's current characterization as "disloyal". Carapaz to Ineos seems like a move that Armstrong's old teams made: hire the best competition and control it, rather than compete against it. Movistar management didn't appear to have that grip. Seeing a rider like Soler acting out had to be tough for Nairo...and the coaches. Good luck to all of them in the future with some restored chemistry.
Having watched the Movistar documentary my impression is that Quintana is aloof. I agree with Oldermanish that the team never questioned Quintana's dedication and his character. It does appear there is respect between Quintana and the team's management.
Quintana does appear to be aloof but he also seems very guarded. I'd be outwardly detached considering the voracious nature of Spain's, and likely Columbia's sporting press although my exposure to his day to day is limited. I've watched the GT videos repeatedly and he is very good at riding without displaying weakness or strength until it's obvious; which could be irritating to the domestiques if he isn't actually telling them what's going on.
I agree about guarded as well. I suspect that didn't help him integrate into the team as it didn't appear he was really a part of the team. Not sure Landa really did either (for that matter). I suspect if he's not communicating how he's feeling, which is what they said during the Tour and apparently la Vuelta as well, that it would irritating to everyone on the team in trying to make plans and how to execute those plans.
Just watched Vuelta '19, Stage 9 again and you could see a lot of drama that may have settled Nairo's course to another team. At this late point in the season, Movistar had not contractually locked him up and probably thought Carapaz, Landa, Soler represented the future. Carapaz bailed on the Vuelta so it's Nairo and the Old Guy for glory.
You can see an excellent strategy played out by both Astana and Movistar to stress Roglic on the Stage; most oPrimoz' guys are up the road in the break and not immediately available with 20k(about) to go leaving him solo. Valverde and Quintana take turns attacking to soften things up. When Superman starts attacking it fell to Nairo to respond. You can even see a moment when Roglic pulls Valverde back to Nairo; who is dutifully sitting on Lopez's wheel when they reconnect and spread out on the road. Valverde and Nairo size up the situation and Valverde seems to indicate that he'll follow Roglic and Nairo should take Lopez as Nairo has a quicker response for the moment. This works for awhile when Lopez seriously attacks and the rest of the guys don't respond as Movistar wisely expects Roglic to take up the work, meanwhile his teammate Sepp Kuss falls back from the break to assist Roglic. Kuss doesn't last long so it's Nairo's turn to go again and get to the GC threat of Lopez.
We lose some broadcast due to weather so it's not totally clear where the group gets Lopez but shortly after a gravel section that separated Roglic. Lopez looks spent and has no help so Quintana heads up the road with an unknown minor threat of Pogacar sitting on his wheel. Tadej has followed wheels all day and is fresh but not a serious GC contender in the minds of the Movistar directors and, as we see in the documentary; they tell Soler to sit up at about 4k to go and help Nairo build the GC lead. If you're the Head of Movistar, which is the bigger prize? Soler getting a possible stage win or taking over the GC and hurting all your rivals in the process? I was always taught the GC is the prize.
Soler gets theatric and deigns to pull Nairo for a couple of 2km to go and then veers off the front dramatically, says something to Nairo and seems to fade from view. One would conclude he may not have had the juice to win the stage if he blew at that point.
Flash to the finish and Quintana gains enough time to take the jersey after working his a*s off for it. Valverde is following a charging Roglic and not able to outsprint him for the last bonus, suggesting he used up all he had.
What was really irritating to see was Soler in the final approach TV view, able to match Roglic until 175 meters from the finish and then pulling off and riding slowly out of camera view on the other side of the road so he wouldn't have to explain why he left the duty of pulling Quintana, or so it would seem. That would be tough to endure; particularly as cliquish as part of the team seemed to be.
They had made the decision before the Tour they weren't bringing Quintana or Landa back and had said so publicly. Unzue was asked at some point in June which of the 3 leaders they were planning on resigning at which point he asked who was being referred to. It was then defined as Carapaz, Landa and Quintana with the assumption Valverde would be re- signed. Unzue's comment was we hope to re sign Carapaz and are not offering contracts to Quintana or Landa. Movistar had made the decision by this point that re-signing Valverde and signing Enric Mas were their two biggest goals of who to sign. You could see after Soler pulled off from "helping" Quintana that he intentionally dropped back to Valverde and rode with Valverde and Roglic to basically the end. It looked like he had said something to Valverde when he dropped back to him. (I think in the documentary we see that Soler still has some learning to do). A week or so later in the Vuelta Soler was in the lead group and was asked if he thought he could win the stage. His response was is Valverde asking, does he does help, where is he. He never actually answered the question at that point. Later he said something about other riders in that break being fresher and he didn't think he could have won that stage.
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Koronin-thanks for the contract clarification, I hadn't known that. It sounded from the documentary I had seen to that point that the management had noted Quintana's apparent "decline".
I just finished the documentary and saw the live-time version from their perspective, minus the commentary from Phil and Bob.
It reinforced what I saw play out on the road. Soler is going to be a handful but I think having to fight for GC will either make or break him. Adding Mas to the mix isn't simplifying Soler's self-image issues, either. It's easier to be strong when you can pick when you put out the effort.
The last episode of the documentary also defined further what appears to be Quintana's total maturity and class. Very few people could be professional and gracious in the situation. More luck to him in the future!
You're welcome. I agree Soler is going to be a handful. Mas and Soler are friends, so I think that can work with the two of them sharing leadership. However, Soler needs to grow up. Valverde wants to hand over leadership but so far no one has shown the ability to take it, so it keeps falling back to him. Quintana has maturity and class, just don't think he's a natural leader. Still think Quintana should have left about 2-3 years sooner.
The question is who?
BTW, he was specific on being the Alpe d'huez stage.
It wasn't clear to me on that day.
I think He should have attached earlier on the previous stage to Alpe d'Huez. The time had already been lost in the cross winds stage and he had to re-organize after that. So you can't blame it on that.
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Not following Nibali the day before and loosing time in the cross winds cost him the Tour, he actually did what he could on the last mountain stage and Valverde wasn't holding him back in any shape of way, at least in my opinion. If he'd say that his ds cost him the Tour by telling him to play the waiting game, I'd kinda understand that, but not this comment.
Not entirely sure if I've understood whether he means it was deliberate: "This guy didn't give his all, and it cost me the Tour!" or just something that happened: "This guy gave his all, unfortunately it wasn't enough, and it cost me the Tour."
I don't think he's really complaining about the rider and what that rider did or didn't do. I think he's just addressing Unzue's comment about there not being a mano-a-mano between Quintana and Froome at the Tour. I think Nairo thinks, and rightly so, that if Movistar had truly been all in for him in 2015 then he would've gotten a far better chance at winning a Tour. And more to the point, a true dogfight against Froome with the highest of stakes over a full climb, and one of the most legendary climbs in cycling at that.
And he's certainly referring to Valverde, who literally read the papers instead of drilling it on the front, with the four (there lies the rub) capos all alone on the Vallée de l'Eau d'Olle. Valverde had done his job brilliantly until then, helping Quintana isolate Froome up the top of the Croix Fer over 50kms out. But Valverde, Froome, and crucially Nibali caught up in the descent. It would've meant him likely giving up the podium, as he would've been spent after 20km eating the wind, and the Shark knows how to pounce. Obviously, it wasn't a given that they would've stayed away. But Bala's a pretty good time triallist and IIRC they had a little over a minute in hand and likely eventually only Poels to really chase (who, again, IIRC actually caught and dropped Porte on the descent). With the best four climbers being the top-4 on GC on a group up front, very few if any domestiques in the game, and riders strewn all over the road, I don't know if anyone would've mounted a concerted effort to bridge to that front group. Maybe Contador for a bit with some help but I doubt even he would've kept the gas on for long with little help and almost no chance of getting anything out of it. And I really doubt a spent Porte and a typically upright Poels would've done anything but bleed more time to a committed Valverde.
I think we would've seen a sick, isolated Froome burn himself out on Quintana's first attack from 12km out and crack hard. Whatever the reason, his was the face of absolute misery, struggling mightily to hold Poels's wheel up the Alpe. No way he doesn't lose at least an extra 1'8" mano-a-mano against Nairo. And given how spent Nibali was, Valverde might've actually kept third.
We'll never know for sure but it would've been an even more epic day. But it was also a huge ask out of a guy who pulled out nearly all the stops for Quintana that day. I think Quintana knows that. But Bala would've gamely gotten it done had Unzue told him to. And Nairo knows that, too.
And he's certainly referring to Valverde, who literally read the papers instead of drilling it on the front, with the four (there lies the rub) capos all alone on the Vallée de l'Eau d'Olle. Valverde had done his job brilliantly until then, helping Quintana isolate Froome up the top of the Croix Fer over 50kms out. But Valverde, Froome, and crucially Nibali caught up in the descent. It would've meant him likely giving up the podium, as he would've been spent after 20km eating the wind, and the Shark knows how to pounce. Obviously, it wasn't a given that they would've stayed away. But Bala's a pretty good time triallist and IIRC they had a little over a minute in hand and likely eventually only Poels to really chase (who, again, IIRC actually caught and dropped Porte on the descent). With the best four climbers being the top-4 on GC on a group up front, very few if any domestiques in the game, and riders strewn all over the road, I don't know if anyone would've mounted a concerted effort to bridge to that front group. Maybe Contador for a bit with some help but I doubt even he would've kept the gas on for long with little help and almost no chance of getting anything out of it. And I really doubt a spent Porte and a typically upright Poels would've done anything but bleed more time to a committed Valverde.
I think we would've seen a sick, isolated Froome burn himself out on Quintana's first attack from 12km out and crack hard. Whatever the reason, his was the face of absolute misery, struggling mightily to hold Poels's wheel up the Alpe. No way he doesn't lose at least an extra 1'8" mano-a-mano against Nairo. And given how spent Nibali was, Valverde might've actually kept third.
We'll never know for sure but it would've been an even more epic day. But it was also a huge ask out of a guy who pulled out nearly all the stops for Quintana that day. I think Quintana knows that. But Bala would've gamely gotten it done had Unzue told him to. And Nairo knows that, too.
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Thanks Carton. Now I understand. You are probably right. I didn't see it at the beginning because I thought Valverde attacked on Alpe to try to help Quintana. But I was ignoring the fact that if he had burned himself out on that descent that would have limited Froome's teammates to be with him on the last climb. With Nibali in there it would have helped as well. So that's the mano a mano that he was referring to. In my opinion it would not have worked. In my opinion he lost the race the day before. Maybe Movistar tactics to wait until the end all the time.
Look, Movistar will die with Valverde until the end. So let's not cry over spilled milk. Unzue was crying over why Movistar wasn't a team in 2019 Tour at stage 20 because Landa and Quintana were playing for themselves. They had no reason to do it. Why? after the behavior 2 days before Quintana was not going to do it. And Landa was playing his cards. He had the right. Besides Valverde's cards are usually playing the waiting game. He could have won that stage if he had gone earlier. Nobody was going to stop him. So Unzue should not blame neither Landa nor Quintana for that.
Another fact that Movistar will die for him is the plan for Valverde for this year Tour. The planning of quitting the race before Paris so that he can prepare for the Olympics. So from the beginning he does not have any confidence in the other riders in the race. What kind of message is that one? In our minds it might be that Soler and Mas do not have a chance but not in their minds. You don't want kill their confidence. Especially in the last week when the help of Valverde would be crucial. It doesn't matter anymore.
I guess these are news so we can talk about something now. I don't like it when riders and coaches start to talk like this. It is cheap. At least Quintana and Carapaz didn't started it.
Look, Movistar will die with Valverde until the end. So let's not cry over spilled milk. Unzue was crying over why Movistar wasn't a team in 2019 Tour at stage 20 because Landa and Quintana were playing for themselves. They had no reason to do it. Why? after the behavior 2 days before Quintana was not going to do it. And Landa was playing his cards. He had the right. Besides Valverde's cards are usually playing the waiting game. He could have won that stage if he had gone earlier. Nobody was going to stop him. So Unzue should not blame neither Landa nor Quintana for that.
Another fact that Movistar will die for him is the plan for Valverde for this year Tour. The planning of quitting the race before Paris so that he can prepare for the Olympics. So from the beginning he does not have any confidence in the other riders in the race. What kind of message is that one? In our minds it might be that Soler and Mas do not have a chance but not in their minds. You don't want kill their confidence. Especially in the last week when the help of Valverde would be crucial. It doesn't matter anymore.
I guess these are news so we can talk about something now. I don't like it when riders and coaches start to talk like this. It is cheap. At least Quintana and Carapaz didn't started it.
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Yep, that sums up Nairo, Movistar and Quintana's Movistar career in a few words. But I don't blame Alejandro for this. Its Movistar's flawed strategy (Unzue). I am very glad Nairo finally got out of that poisonous environment and I hope he can provide some belated excitement at his new team now that he isn't mentally burdened with that horrible demotivating environment he was in since 2016.
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