Teams & Riders Nairo Quintana discussion thread

[BlurryVII]

For now,only few people can understand his potential.

But, how can you understand his potential to begin with? Because he is colombian and was born & raised in altitude? It doesn't mean anything as far as his progress is concerned.
There's a limit for everyone, it reminds of Andy who was already extremely good at the Giro 07', and most of his fans were assuming he still had a huge room for improvement just because he was only 22. Turns out he was already in his best years. Slightly improved towards 09/2010 but really not much which was not surprising.

Being very good, very young doesn't mean the rider will still gain 10% of power throughout years. It's just a biased, made up idea.

Quintana is already very good, I don't know what people are expecting from him plus he lacks explosiveness. RoboBasso 2.0? I've heard he had a great pace !

 

[ILovecycling]

I don't know how much room Quintana has left to improve. I don't think what we've seen from him this year is much more impressive than last year

thats true, not at all,probably never reached his peak form.

But, how can you understand his potential to begin with? Because he is colombian and was born & raised in altitude? It doesn't mean anything as far as his progress is concerned.
There's a limit for everyone, it reminds of Andy who was already extremely good at the Giro 07', and most of his fans were assuming he still had a huge room for improvement just because he was only 22. Turns out he was already in his best years. Slightly improved towards 09/2010 but really not much which was not surprising.

Being very good, very young doesn't mean the rider will still gain 10% of power throughout years. It's just a biased, made up idea.

Quintana is already very good, I don't know what people are expecting from him plus he lacks explosiveness. RoboBasso 2.0? I've heard he had a great pace !

read studies,talked with people.I base my opinions on his physiological assumptions.but like I said we can have a next talk at the end of july

 

[ferryman]

It's all very well comparing Quintana with the big three at the moment and he may or may not be able to challenge them next year (personally I think he will) but thank the cycling gods we have him and the Aru/Yate's et al coming through as future GT winners. We can hold them up as the Champs 5 years from now, as the next batch of youngsters come through. And no doubt there will be very similar debates just like this

 

[Escarabajo]

But, how can you understand his potential to begin with? Because he is colombian and was born & raised in altitude? It doesn't mean anything as far as his progress is concerned.
There's a limit for everyone, it reminds of Andy who was already extremely good at the Giro 07', and most of his fans were assuming he still had a huge room for improvement just because he was only 22. Turns out he was already in his best years. Slightly improved towards 09/2010 but really not much which was not surprising.

Being very good, very young doesn't mean the rider will still gain 10% of power throughout years. It's just a biased, made up idea.

Quintana is already very good, I don't know what people are expecting from him plus he lacks explosiveness. RoboBasso 2.0? I've heard he had a great pace !

You might be right about Quintana's potential could be close to his peak. We will see. The big difference with Andy is the work ethic. That can be a big factor when it comes to improving.

 

[Jelantik]

Let's analyze time differences in all mountains stages this year in Giro:
Stage8
Aru 11s behind Quintana
Stage14
Aru 4s behind Quintana
Stage15
Quintana 22s behind Aru
Stage 16
Aru 3m40s behind Quintana
Stage18
Quintana 3s behind Aru
Stage19
Aru 17s behind Quintana
Stage20
Aru 16s behind Quintana

okay.. based on this.. don't you think that the fact he can't even drop Aru by more that big margin shows that he isn't that stellar as people claims? Froome with his 1/2 form and contador with his one leg drop Aru by a long shot. So if we just put two and two together, with no scientific calculation, that means it would be hard to drop froome and contador when they are in form. I still see Froome as the more complete rider than quintana. So I have to agree with the post that says, until he proves otherwise, it's hard to say that quintana can outclimb froome or contador. But, yes he is one of the best climber (young climber) now. But TDF, that's another story.

 

[Sciocco]

I think Quintana can/will win a nice amount of GTs. Especially if he focuses on Giro he could accumulate a lot. Imagine, winning Giro 3-5 times, might just have to start it in Colombia some year.

 

[hfer07]

Nairos fans are a funny breed.

There are certain rules fans set up. Contadors fans (not all of course) are the most pessimistic, anxious and sensitive for every sign of what Alberto may show. And likewise is the rule that his critics set up harsh and brutal: is he not winning a race in October? It will be difficult to beat (insert favorite rider) in the Tour 2015. Not winning a sprint? The form isnt there. Not contending a sprint? He is on decline. Not winning by six minutes on the first ever uphill? Questionable form. Not attacking on the first day in leaders jersey? Worst wheelsucker ever. Then we have a large gathering who still thinks its 2013 (Froome fans wave to the camera).

I'll skip Nibalis boys. There is a certain vibe going on.

But then we got Nairo. Good lord. Does the man have any pressures and demands to perform at least one inch of what his gang of ultra-nationalistic colombians are telling us? It's like: ok. He won barely Giro and is the greatest ever from now on and until eternity. No questions asked. Remember this Vuelta? Nairo barely beat a very below par Moreno in Burgos and CN forum was like: He'll drive home Vuelta with one leg. Or riding backwards.

Come Vuelta and the excuses started early. Did Nairo actually got dropped on the first ever uphill? No problem. He was "taking it cool" and was like: "Yo Alejandro. I'll let you handle this. Myself going to drop some 12 seconds to Christopher and Velasco because i am so damn good and dont have any pressure to perform". That was one theory. The other theory was that it was too warm and Nairo are born in a climate where he absolutely needs rain and temperatures around 12 degrees to be a ultra-badass. Lost huge chunk of time in the first split on a time-trial? No problemo. Assuming the spanish weather drops to 13 degrees of course. Crashing in the same time trial? No problemo. He'll handle these multiple GT-winners which he somehow is better than (but never needs to actually perform against to prove) because we just say so. And, of course, it must rain.

Give me a break.

Let me get this straight: A rider at 23 y.o. whose first appearance in the Tour de France resulted in being the runner up,Polka dot jersey winner & white jersey winner to top it, then next year wins his first Grand Tour- Is "barely" a "good rider" and too hyped by his fans?

and your description of what happened to him at this year's Vuelta is absurd if you were speaking on behalf of his fans-because everyone who knows well his riding style can tell you that he wasn't going to be good on the first week, as he prefers to compete below peak level and reach it on the 3rd week. BTW- I haven't read-at least from my compatriots here in CN" making out excuses for what took place in Spain- and quite frankly is good in the long term for him to have experienced this setback, because he'll come back next year better prepared and more mature to confront adversity

as @Ilovecycling wrote- it seems you're the one overhyping him for non existing "higher expectations" that none of us Colombians have hoped for-because he has already achieved so much that any future victories from now on are seen as a premium

 

[jaylew]

But Froome, Contador and Nibali are better at TTs, so at which point my argument doesnt have merit?

I don't really think Nibali is any better at TTs.

I think Nairo will improve but yeah, at this point I can't put him up there with Froome and Contador, not yet anyway. I put him on a level just below with Nibs.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

I'd actually rate 2013 Quintana higher than 2014 Quintana. He hasn't really improved this year (for god knows which reasons).

 

[ILovecycling]

Let me get this straight: A rider at 23 y.o. whose first appearance in the Tour de France resulted in being the runner up,Polka dot jersey winner & white jersey winner to top it, then next year wins his first Grand Tour- Is "barely" a "good rider" and too hyped by his fans?

This.

Emilia, Avenir, Vasco, Burgos 2x, San Luis
GT's: Tour - 2nd,stage,polka dot,blanc Giro- 1st, 2x stage, blanco

what do you want more from freakin 24yo, actually if he wins Tour next year he will be on a similar level as AC at his age.



As for this year, I think he didnt go deep in last days of Giro keeping in mind Vuelta double. Unfortunately he couldnt prove it in 2nd and 3rd week. IMO he would have been at least 2nd slightly in front of Froome, the better scenario was winning it.Which depends how better he would have been in mountains than AC (hard to predict, maybe same level,maybe not..)

 

[Futuroscope]

I don't know how much room Quintana has left to improve. I don't think what we've seen from him this year is much more impressive than last year

Even small improvements can have a big impact. I'm not sure his climbing will become much better but i think he can improve in the TTs.

Quintana is also a mentally strong person and I think he will be very consistent in the coming years. I don't see him burning out early.

 

[Ryaguas]

Even small improvements can have a big impact. I'm not sure his climbing will become much better but i think he can improve in the TTs.

Quintana is also a mentally strong person and I think he will be very consistent in the coming years. I don't see him burning out early.

One thing for sure is that He is not going to end as Andy.

I think that we are overhyping Nairo just a bit. I dont think that He is going to repeat that 2nd place in Le Tour the next year, OFC a Top5 is totally viable but not a Top3. He still needs more experience and understand how to race Le Tour. Bala could be a great teacher if He is willing to teach Nairo.

What will help Nairo a lot in the upcoming years is that He will be the absolute leader of Movistar and that team is awesome. Always with strong riders and strong roster for several GTs and races.

 

[Netserk]

One thing for sure is that He is not going to end as Andy.

I think that we are overhyping Nairo just a bit. I dont think that He is going to repeat that 2nd place in Le Tour the next year, OFC a Top5 is totally viable but not a Top3. He still needs more experience and understand how to race Le Tour. Bala could be a great teacher if He is willing to teach Nairo.

What will help Nairo a lot in the upcoming years is that He will be the absolute leader of Movistar and that team is awesome. Always with strong riders and strong roster for several GTs and races.

What? There's a bigger chance that he'll podium than that he won't. He just needs to do better than one of Nibali, Froome and 'tired' Contador. I think he'll get 3rd, but closer to 2nd than 4th.

 

[ILovecycling]

bigger chance that he will win it than he won't podium it.

 

[Netserk]

bigger chance that he will win it than he won't podium it.

I disagree. I find it unlikely that he will beat all of the other three (though it seems like there will be a minimum of ITT next year), and we saw this year that bad luck can happen to anyone (bigger chance that will happen to Quintana than that it will happen to all the other three).

 

[ILovecycling]

I disagree. I find it unlikely that he will beat all of the other three (though it seems like there will be a minimum of ITT next year), and we saw this year that bad luck can happen to anyone (bigger chance that will happen to Quintana than that it will happen to all the other three).

nibali - weak
contador - tired but fighting
froome - doable (for Q) if minum TT

 

[slosada]

As a Colombian, I don't like the ultranationalism or fanboyism for that matter. I prefer to see things in balanced way. I might be wrong, I may judge one factor bigger than other but, at the end, I want to see it as transparent as I can.
1. 2013 was far more impressive than 2014 even with his titles. Maybe we knew his potential and expected more.
2. I didn't like the Stelviogate
3. I didn't like his wheelsucking in several stages during the year.
4. He might already be close to his peak

But, he's very young and he can:
A. Improve his tactics (being a mastermind already) even more, knowing himself, his rivals and routes. This is for him to know the response to mileage (stage, race, year), weather, route.
B. Test training variants, to get different stimuli.
C. Improve his TT.
D. In endurance sports the peak is reached later in life... This could be physiologically explained (I.e muscular fiber type composition changes) or just by simple observation on cycling (28 years old is the average age for winning a GT) or long distance running. IMHO it's not a biased made up idea.

So, barring disaster, I expect Quintana to win more GTs. If the question is: Can he win over in-form Contador or Froome in 2015? I don't see him there yet.

 

[ILovecycling]

As a Colombian, I don't like the ultranationalism or fanboyism for that matter. I prefer to see things in balanced way. I might be wrong, I may judge one factor bigger than other but, at the end, I want to see it as transparent as I can.
1. 2013 was far more impressive than 2014 even with his titles. Maybe we knew his potential and expected more.
2. I didn't like the Stelviogate
3. I didn't like his wheelsucking in several stages during the year.
4. He might already be close to his peak

But, he's very young and he can:
A. Improve his tactics (being a mastermind already) even more, knowing himself, his rivals and routes. This is for him to know the response to mileage (stage, race, year), weather, route.
B. Test training variants, to get different stimuli.
C. Improve his TT.
D. In endurance sports the peak is reached later in life... This could be physiologically explained (I.e muscular fiber type composition changes) or just by simple observation on cycling (28 years old is the average age for winning a GT) or long distance running. IMHO it's not a biased made up idea.

So, barring disaster, I expect Quintana to win more GTs. If the question is: Can he win over in-form Contador or Froome in 2015? I don't see him there yet.

Because its not 2015 yet.

 

[Ryaguas]

What? There's a bigger chance that he'll podium than that he won't. He just needs to do better than one of Nibali, Froome and 'tired' Contador. I think he'll get 3rd, but closer to 2nd than 4th.

I think that the next Tour will have enough TT to hinder his posibilities to make podium but I think that He will make the Top5

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

It's reasonable to think Quintana will be better than ever in 2015 given his age. He might be the best climber although I think it's still a year too early. I expect Froome and depending on fatigue, Contador to drop him. Perhaps even Nibali.

What is completely egregious is the assertion that he has already been the best climber.

maybe yuu should've wiped the **** out of your eyes when watching the final tour week last year

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

nibali - weak
contador - tired but fighting
froome - doable (for Q) if minum TT

it's not as if froome has been drilling itt's this year. quintana has though for his standards. and is only improving

 

[ILovecycling]

it's not as if froome has been drilling itt's this year. quintana has though for his standards. and is only improving

thats right,but if there is a 50+km panflat **** he will lose close to 2 minutes. hard to regain that time cuz froome accelaration is good when climbing.

still praying about bonette or iseran.

 

[GuyIncognito]

4. He might already be close to his peak

You should expect that. When a youngster comes through and is top almost immediately, a section of the fans claim they will be the best ever because "think how good they will be when they improve!" when statistically they've simply peaked at a young age.

I always wonder if those people haven't watched cycling for a long time, because those guys never improve much, and often they decline early as well. Which makes perfect sense since if they did improve they'd be Merckx or Coppi and that can't happen to one guy a year.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

You should expect that. When a youngster comes through and is top almost immediately, a section of the fans claim they will be the best ever because "think how good they will be when they improve!" when statistically they've simply peaked at a young age.

I always wonder if those people haven't watched cycling for a long time, because those guys never improve much, and often they decline early as well. Which makes perfect sense since if they did improve they'd be Merckx or Coppi and that can't happen to one guy a year.

quintana is only bike racing since 16. he may have matured early but it's doubtful the way he races and is rarely seriously injured and his mentality he will fall back early. he's a rare talent

 

[SeriousSam]

You should expect that. When a youngster comes through and is top almost immediately, a section of the fans claim they will be the best ever because "think how good they will be when they improve!" when statistically they've simply peaked at a young age.

I always wonder if those people haven't watched cycling for a long time, because those guys never improve much, and often they decline early as well. Which makes perfect sense since if they did improve they'd be Merckx or Coppi and that can't happen to one guy a year.

Agreed. Quintana is pretty much a slightly better Gesink. He looks extremely mature physically, as Gesink did. Older than they are.