Teams & Riders Nairo Quintana discussion thread

[DFA123]

Re:

This Giro anyway you look at it is a fail for Quintana (unless he wins the GC tomorrow). This is not hatred or unfair expectations...its just fact

The reason why people are 'hard' on Quintana is becasue he was the out and out favourite and ever since the Tour 2013 is expected to outclimb everyone in a GT with possibly the exception of Froome. He hasn't been able to outclimb several of what have been considered (maybe till now) tier 2 riders in this Giro. Not only that he rode with lack of conviction
We have been for a few years now expecting Quintana to be the only rider who can challenge Froome in a GT
On the evidence of this Giro and last year at the Tour and even the Vuelta 2016 (yeah I know he won but Contador made the difference) he doesn't look like he can deliver .
He needs to look again at his progress.
I thought the tactics of Movistar were fine ...Just they were too ambitious for the form of the leader

He outclimbed everyone in this race. Took at least a minute out of everyone on the climbs combined, despite his lack of form. So he justified the hype as arguably the best climbers in the world. He just didn't have the legs to take the 4 or 5 minutes out of everyone that he did in the Vuelta for example.

 

[Red Rick]

Have to say though that the Vuelta, apart from the top 4, was a pretty weak field

 

[lenric]

Re:

Have to say though that the Vuelta, apart from the top 4, was a pretty weak field

Even Contador was pretty weak, considering he had fresher legs than Froome and Quintana.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

This needs to be separated from the forum facts. Which are things like:

LS loves Fedaia.
LS hates TTT's

LS loves Marianne Vos
LS hates Peter Sagan

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

This needs to be separated from the forum facts. Which are things like:

LS loves Fedaia.
LS hates TTT's

LS loves Marianne Vos
LS hates Peter Sagan

LS knows.

A lot.

Nothing beats the time when I joked that there were about 150 climbs in cycling that were harder than AdH and they actually went out and listed 150 climbs.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re:

Have to say though that the Vuelta, apart from the top 4, was a pretty weak field

If they weren't so close to the top in both performance and time gaps, we'd be calling the likes of Pinot, Zakarin, Pozzovivo and Dumoulin a weak field too.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Have to say though that the Vuelta, apart from the top 4, was a pretty weak field

If they weren't so close to the top in both performance and time gaps, we'd be calling the likes of Pinot, Zakarin, Pozzovivo and Dumoulin a weak field too.

Fair point. The Vuelta was pretty top heavy, and this years Giro had more depth. Landa and Thomas crashing out, and Kruijswijk not being great didn't help the field either. I do rate Zakarin and Pinot higher than all but the top 4 of last year's Vuelta higher though.

In the end, TGBM may just be the ultimate reference

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

This Giro anyway you look at it is a fail for Quintana (unless he wins the GC tomorrow). This is not hatred or unfair expectations...its just fact

The reason why people are 'hard' on Quintana is becasue he was the out and out favourite and ever since the Tour 2013 is expected to outclimb everyone in a GT with possibly the exception of Froome. He hasn't been able to outclimb several of what have been considered (maybe till now) tier 2 riders in this Giro. Not only that he rode with lack of conviction
We have been for a few years now expecting Quintana to be the only rider who can challenge Froome in a GT
On the evidence of this Giro and last year at the Tour and even the Vuelta 2016 (yeah I know he won but Contador made the difference) he doesn't look like he can deliver .
He needs to look again at his progress.
I thought the tactics of Movistar were fine ...Just they were too ambitious for the form of the leader

He outclimbed everyone in this race. Took at least a minute out of everyone on the climbs combined, despite his lack of form. So he justified the hype as arguably the best climbers in the world. He just didn't have the legs to take the 4 or 5 minutes out of everyone that he did in the Vuelta for example.

Pulling back seconds here and there is not out climbing the others ..at least not in the way that is expected ...At no time did he ride away from the others ..this is what was expected ...so not to deliver that and not to be able to leave Tom Dumoulin behind after several very tough mountain stages will be considered a fail for the 'best' climber in the race. I guess people expected a Froome or Contador performance from him , especially if going for the double... He is up there and fighting for pink....But the expectation was he would be alot further in front
If you asked me Zakarin and Pinot performance in the mountains is perceived as better ..

This is always the way with cycling. If you are improving you you are considered a future world star ..If you have already hit a pinnacle you must live up to the hype very time.

And I am not bought on Quintana's form excuse ...did he not train for this, was he not confident coming in ...form is always blamed when things go wrong ..its an elusive quality

 

[Arredondo]

Re: Re:

This Giro anyway you look at it is a fail for Quintana (unless he wins the GC tomorrow). This is not hatred or unfair expectations...its just fact

The reason why people are 'hard' on Quintana is becasue he was the out and out favourite and ever since the Tour 2013 is expected to outclimb everyone in a GT with possibly the exception of Froome. He hasn't been able to outclimb several of what have been considered (maybe till now) tier 2 riders in this Giro. Not only that he rode with lack of conviction
We have been for a few years now expecting Quintana to be the only rider who can challenge Froome in a GT
On the evidence of this Giro and last year at the Tour and even the Vuelta 2016 (yeah I know he won but Contador made the difference) he doesn't look like he can deliver .
He needs to look again at his progress.
I thought the tactics of Movistar were fine ...Just they were too ambitious for the form of the leader

He outclimbed everyone in this race. Took at least a minute out of everyone on the climbs combined, despite his lack of form. So he justified the hype as arguably the best climbers in the world. He just didn't have the legs to take the 4 or 5 minutes out of everyone that he did in the Vuelta for example.

The question is: did he? He climbed well in last years Vuelta, but he mainly won the race thanks to the All-Out Attack by Contador in the Formigal stage. Froome wasn't on a brilliant day back then, but he lost because of a lack of tactical awareness and a complete let-down of his own team. Not because he was outclimbed really.

Quintana deserved that win, but i doubt he would have won that bike race if he had to make the winning-move, (based on his relatively defensive riding over the years, especially in GT's). Only on Covadonga he was able to get time on Froome. In all the other mountain stages, there were on par.

 

[ice&fire]

Re: Re:

This Giro anyway you look at it is a fail for Quintana (unless he wins the GC tomorrow). This is not hatred or unfair expectations...its just fact

The reason why people are 'hard' on Quintana is becasue he was the out and out favourite and ever since the Tour 2013 is expected to outclimb everyone in a GT with possibly the exception of Froome. He hasn't been able to outclimb several of what have been considered (maybe till now) tier 2 riders in this Giro. Not only that he rode with lack of conviction
We have been for a few years now expecting Quintana to be the only rider who can challenge Froome in a GT
On the evidence of this Giro and last year at the Tour and even the Vuelta 2016 (yeah I know he won but Contador made the difference) he doesn't look like he can deliver .
He needs to look again at his progress.
I thought the tactics of Movistar were fine ...Just they were too ambitious for the form of the leader

He outclimbed everyone in this race. Took at least a minute out of everyone on the climbs combined, despite his lack of form. So he justified the hype as arguably the best climbers in the world. He just didn't have the legs to take the 4 or 5 minutes out of everyone that he did in the Vuelta for example.

Pulling back seconds here and there is not out climbing the others ..at least not in the way that is expected ...At no time did he ride away from the others ..this is what was expected ...so not to deliver that and not to be able to leave Tom Dumoulin behind after several very tough mountain stages will be considered a fail for the 'best' climber in the race. I guess people expected a Froome or Contador performance from him , especially if going for the double... He is up there and fighting for pink....But the expectation was he would be alot further in front
If you asked me Zakarin and Pinot performance in the mountains is perceived as better ..

This is always the way with cycling. If you are improving you you are considered a future world star ..If you have already hit a pinnacle you must live up to the hype very time.

And I am not bought on Quintana's form excuse ...did he not train for this, was he not confident coming in ...form is always blamed when things go wrong ..its an elusive quality

Quintana lost time to all its contenders in the ITT, yet he's still ahead of them in GC. Did he gain time in an echelon stage or something?

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

This Giro anyway you look at it is a fail for Quintana (unless he wins the GC tomorrow). This is not hatred or unfair expectations...its just fact

The reason why people are 'hard' on Quintana is becasue he was the out and out favourite and ever since the Tour 2013 is expected to outclimb everyone in a GT with possibly the exception of Froome. He hasn't been able to outclimb several of what have been considered (maybe till now) tier 2 riders in this Giro. Not only that he rode with lack of conviction
We have been for a few years now expecting Quintana to be the only rider who can challenge Froome in a GT
On the evidence of this Giro and last year at the Tour and even the Vuelta 2016 (yeah I know he won but Contador made the difference) he doesn't look like he can deliver .
He needs to look again at his progress.
I thought the tactics of Movistar were fine ...Just they were too ambitious for the form of the leader

He outclimbed everyone in this race. Took at least a minute out of everyone on the climbs combined, despite his lack of form. So he justified the hype as arguably the best climbers in the world. He just didn't have the legs to take the 4 or 5 minutes out of everyone that he did in the Vuelta for example.

Pulling back seconds here and there is not out climbing the others ..at least not in the way that is expected ...At no time did he ride away from the others ..this is what was expected ...so not to deliver that and not to be able to leave Tom Dumoulin behind after several very tough mountain stages will be considered a fail for the 'best' climber in the race. I guess people expected a Froome or Contador performance from him , especially if going for the double... He is up there and fighting for pink....But the expectation was he would be alot further in front
If you asked me Zakarin and Pinot performance in the mountains is perceived as better ..

And I am not bought on Quintana's form excuse ...did he not train for this, was he not confident coming in ...form is always blamed when things go wrong ..its an elusive quality

Are you sure you were watching the right race? Almost everything you have written here is incorrect.
Ultimately, he probably hasn't gained enough time on the climbs to win the race, but he still gained more than anyone else on them. Despite being the most heavily marked of all the climbers.

His lack of form isn't an excuse. It's just a reason for his below-par third week performance. Of course, getting his peaking wrong is completely his own fault.

This is always the way with cycling. If you are improving you you are considered a future world star ..If you have already hit a pinnacle you must live up to the hype very time.

So, by this ridiculous logic. A rider like Froome, who hasn't performed anywhere near his best for 9 months now, has to also be considered a busted flush?

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

If he had pushed harder on Stelvio and used his teammates up front, he would probably have been the winner of this bike race.

This. That was his biggest mistake, he simply had to attack on Stelvio with 2 teammates up the road. He was just afraid because of Oropa stage, and that's where he could have won this Giro

Thats you guys assuming he could have distanced a very strong Dumoulin on Stelvio...

No, it's not.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

This Giro anyway you look at it is a fail for Quintana (unless he wins the GC tomorrow). This is not hatred or unfair expectations...its just fact

The reason why people are 'hard' on Quintana is becasue he was the out and out favourite and ever since the Tour 2013 is expected to outclimb everyone in a GT with possibly the exception of Froome. He hasn't been able to outclimb several of what have been considered (maybe till now) tier 2 riders in this Giro. Not only that he rode with lack of conviction
We have been for a few years now expecting Quintana to be the only rider who can challenge Froome in a GT
On the evidence of this Giro and last year at the Tour and even the Vuelta 2016 (yeah I know he won but Contador made the difference) he doesn't look like he can deliver .
He needs to look again at his progress.
I thought the tactics of Movistar were fine ...Just they were too ambitious for the form of the leader

He outclimbed everyone in this race. Took at least a minute out of everyone on the climbs combined, despite his lack of form. So he justified the hype as arguably the best climbers in the world. He just didn't have the legs to take the 4 or 5 minutes out of everyone that he did in the Vuelta for example.

Pulling back seconds here and there is not out climbing the others ..at least not in the way that is expected ...At no time did he ride away from the others ..this is what was expected ...so not to deliver that and not to be able to leave Tom Dumoulin behind after several very tough mountain stages will be considered a fail for the 'best' climber in the race. I guess people expected a Froome or Contador performance from him , especially if going for the double... He is up there and fighting for pink....But the expectation was he would be alot further in front
If you asked me Zakarin and Pinot performance in the mountains is perceived as better ..

And I am not bought on Quintana's form excuse ...did he not train for this, was he not confident coming in ...form is always blamed when things go wrong ..its an elusive quality

Are you sure you were watching the right race? Almost everything you have written here is incorrect.
Ultimately, he probably hasn't gained enough time on the climbs to win the race, but he still gained more than anyone else on them. Despite being the most heavily marked of all the climbers.

His lack of form isn't an excuse. It's just a reason for his below-par third week performance. Of course, getting his peaking wrong is completely his own fault.

This is always the way with cycling. If you are improving you you are considered a future world star ..If you have already hit a pinnacle you must live up to the hype very time.

So, by this ridiculous logic. A rider like Froome, who hasn't performed anywhere near his best for 9 months now, has to also be considered a busted flush?

Maybe English isn't your first language as it would appear to be ...I am talking about perception and expectation .
And can I make a point without being ridiculed

You are so rude ...if you can only make a point by undermining someone else then there is no point ...
You have no intelligence on his form or have any inside information on whether he could be better or not. Everything is just an opinion not some standard of all the is intelligent
In fact that you have to revert to mockery would suggest you have no veracity on your side at all

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re: Re:

This needs to be separated from the forum facts. Which are things like:

LS loves Fedaia.
LS hates TTT's

LS loves Marianne Vos
LS hates Peter Sagan

LS knows.

A lot.

Nothing beats the time when I joked that there were about 150 climbs in cycling that were harder than AdH and they actually went out and listed 150 climbs.

LS loves interesting GT stages on weekends.
LS hates the Tourmalet.

Yes, I have seen his list of those tougher climbs than Alp; I also think that this is one of his best posts (and wonder if he just listed those climbs straight off the cuff without doing any research).

One of....not necessarily the best. Only because he's made so many good ones. A wealth of cycling knowledge who also expresses that knowledge extremely well (with excellent writing; information overloads also being broken up and balanced with some sarcasm). He is also reasonable with other posters, in that he'll provide info on the sport, on the parcours, to someone who has only watched the Tour De France a couple of times, with the same tone as when he speaks to - and provides info and opinion (or just FACT lol) - someone who is for the most part an expert on the sport. LS is never condescending.

Then again, perhaps that's because he isn't a huge fan of MTF's

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

If he had pushed harder on Stelvio and used his teammates up front, he would probably have been the winner of this bike race.

This. That was his biggest mistake, he simply had to attack on Stelvio with 2 teammates up the road. He was just afraid because of Oropa stage, and that's where he could have won this Giro

Thats you guys assuming he could have distanced a very strong Dumoulin on Stelvio...

No, it's not.

Then explain to me what you mean

 

[Pops]

As usual, Nairo has the most talent and best team in the race but they don't know how to strategize so they lose. So many opportunities to attack with men up the road to support him but they wait and wait and wait until time simply runs out.

 

[sir fly]

Respect for Quintana.
It takes some courage to target the double these days.

 

[portugal11]

Giro-tour is out.

 

[RattaKuningas]

Re:

Giro-tour is out.

He might try it again next year if the course has less TT kilometers I guess. Or if there is a TTT it would even help him.

 

[TomekA]

Very good time trial, didn't expect that.

 

[movingtarget]

There are no excuses for Quintana or Nibali. They couldn't finish off Dumoulin in the final week and it was Dumoulin that was having the issues.

 

[gmedina]

As usual, I think Nairo / movistar were too conservative. Also, it didn't help that the likes of Jungles, Yates, Mollema helped TD yesterday at the most crucial time. TD deserves this one. Also, Nairo seems that he underestimated the competition and seemed not to be on his top form of other years.

 

[luckyboy]

Riders should just forget the Giro-Tour double. Quintana hasn't beaten Froome in July yet, never mind trying to win the Giro beforehand

 

[SeriousSam]

Deemed about as likely to win the Tour as Porte right now by the markets. I think there's a good chance he'll be on the podium in France too and that will be some achievement, even if he would no doubt have preferred to win the Giro and take any outcome at the Tour.

 

[Matteo.]

Re:

Giro-tour is out.

of course but if he'll be on the podium in july?