Teams & Riders Nairo Quintana discussion thread

[Escarabajo]

Re:

It was to be expected that Nairo would lose some time today. 34 sec on Aru is maybe on the alot side but 14 sec to Porte and Froome really isn't that bad. What did people expect really? Mollema and Pinot, who also where at the Giro, lost 1:59 and 4:11 respectively.

It just isn't that easy to ride a hard fought Giro for 3 weeks and then to do the Tour with almost zero preparation and expected to not lose some time on the likes of Aru, Porte, Froome etc

Give the guy a break and a fair shot

When you put it like that it really makes sense.

 

[diego721]

Looking at the stage, at some point I expected that him will lose more time.
I think it's a Ok perfomance, best type of climb for Froome, not so good for Nairo, we had seen this history before.
Pretty discouraging to see Froome in yellow so soon, but I think he can do the podium without much trouble. Not the year I expected but, was a risky experiment and anything could happen yet.

 

[dacooley]

it's quite harsh to bash rider for a little bit below par perfomance on first big finish in the tour after doing the giro, as the tour as a whole ridden with the giro in the legs is one big risky experiment and you never know for sure how the body responds. nairo will be clearly improving his conditions further in the tour. let's see what it will be enough for. the only thing I'm worried about is the team. after valverde having abandoned under such dramatic circumstances movistar look depressed and disorganized.

 

[saneguy]

I dont think its about being harsh or bashing Quintana. Hes already down 54 seconds to Froome. I dont know where he can make up that sort of time given
- A 23 km ITT left for the last
- Descent finish on Sunday so very slim chance of gaining time
- Descent finish on stage 17

Essentially leaves stage 12 and stage 18 for Quintana to make up time.

This tour route has hard stages spread across days and not following one after another. So he cant be losing so much time so early. I fear that it will be the same story all over again where Froome will just ride away with the yellow.

And to be honest I am fine with Nairo experimenting this year. Its fine. He is still young. I am sure he will learn a lot from this year about his body and what suits him and what doesnt.

 

[Valv.Piti]

But he hasn't lost that much time, its still under one minute and pretty much the same as Contador. Its not optimal, but its not bad either really after these 5 stages.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I've seen what the Tour route is like playing PCM (yes, I know it's a game, but still) and there are really, REALLY few opportunities for climbers like Quintana. I actually only count Izoard as a real one. The descend ones are far from the finish and there are some that are simply not hard enough to begin with. Quintana could well end up outside the top 3

 

[saneguy]

Re:

But he hasn't lost that much time, its still under one minute and pretty much the same as Contador. Its not optimal, but its not bad either really after these 5 stages.

I agree that one minute isnt much but then again - the parcours just doesnt have much left for him to gain time. He will have to battle out of his skin to take this. In fact I tend to agree with Dekker, even a podium may be out of reach given the strong form Aru has shown. I do assume Porte will be on the podium.

Nairo has to do "a Aru" on some stage and definitely gain much more than a minute to stand a chance.

 

[MovistarRider]

Re: Re:

But he hasn't lost that much time, its still under one minute and pretty much the same as Contador. Its not optimal, but its not bad either really after these 5 stages.

I agree that one minute isnt much but then again - the parcours just doesnt have much left for him to gain time. He will have to battle out of his skin to take this. In fact I tend to agree with Dekker, even a podium may be out of reach given the strong form Aru has shown. I do assume Porte will be on the podium.

Nairo has to do "a Aru" on some stage and definitely gain much more than a minute to stand a chance.

Blame the parcours.

If the last week would have 2 more multiple-mountain stages things would looked better for Nairo. I agree with you, this years route leaves Nairo with few opportunities to gain back time on Froome and that's why this is a extremely difficult challange.

The thing is, Nairo hasn't lost that much time. He's 54 seconds behind after a 14km TT and a Froome type of climb in a shape that is 'significantly' worse than those of his rivals. It was to be expected that he would give up some ground at both stages.

It's not the time he lost and is trailing in the GC that i'm worried about but more the lack of opportunities where he could gain some minutes back.

The more I think about it, the less it seems to make sense that Movistar opted for the Giro-TDF double with this years TDF parcourse. Nairo should have doing the Giro-Vuelta this year. That way he would probably won the Giro and start the Vuelta on a equel foot with Froome. Now, we lost the Giro because he couldn't attend there in 100% shape all because they where also gunning for the TDF with a parcours that makes it almost impossible for him to attack.

 

[Lupi33x]

Quintana always starts GTs slowly. A bit early to write him off after one punchy climb which isn't his zone anyways, ...Giro fatigue withstanding.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

It was to be expected that Nairo would lose some time today. 34 sec on Aru is maybe on the alot side but 14 sec to Porte and Froome really isn't that bad. What did people expect really? Mollema and Pinot, who also where at the Giro, lost 1:59 and 4:11 respectively.

It just isn't that easy to ride a hard fought Giro for 3 weeks and then to do the Tour with almost zero preparation and expected to not lose some time on the likes of Aru, Porte, Froome etc

Give the guy a break and a fair shot

Two riders with different objectives are not fit for a comparison. But I agree that Quintana will probably be stronger in the 3rd week given his schedule. I expect him to be the best come the third week

I know that Mollema and Pinot are riding with different objectives then Nairo, but still it shows how hard it is to do the Giro and TDF double. Some of the comments about his loss today to the front-runners doesn't show any objectivity.

If my memory serves me right Contador was far worse of at this stage of 2015 TDF, still he only get praise left and right while some people here can't let slip to slam Nairo at the first opportunity. Double standard.

You'd do yourself a favor by recognizing and accepting that sometimes passion interferes with a person's objectivity and Contador has some of the most passionate supporters of any rider in the current peloton.

 

[saneguy]

Re: Re:

But he hasn't lost that much time, its still under one minute and pretty much the same as Contador. Its not optimal, but its not bad either really after these 5 stages.

I agree that one minute isnt much but then again - the parcours just doesnt have much left for him to gain time. He will have to battle out of his skin to take this. In fact I tend to agree with Dekker, even a podium may be out of reach given the strong form Aru has shown. I do assume Porte will be on the podium.

Nairo has to do "a Aru" on some stage and definitely gain much more than a minute to stand a chance.

Blame the parcours.

If the last week would have 2 more multiple-mountain stages things would looked better for Nairo. I agree with you, this years route leaves Nairo with few opportunities to gain back time on Froome and that's why this is a extremely difficult challange.

The thing is, Nairo hasn't lost that much time. He's 54 seconds behind after a 14km TT and a Froome type of climb in a shape that is 'significantly' worse than those of his rivals. It was to be expected that he would give up some ground at both stages.

It's not the time he lost and is trailing in the GC that i'm worried about but more the lack of opportunities where he could gain some minutes back.

The more I think about it, the less it seems to make sense that Movistar opted for the Giro-TDF double with this years TDF parcourse. Nairo should have doing the Giro-Vuelta this year. That way he would probably won the Giro and start the Vuelta on a equel foot with Froome. Now, we lost the Giro because he couldn't attend there in 100% shape all because they where also gunning for the TDF with a parcours that makes it almost impossible for him to attack.

Thats exactly the point. *Hoping for a miracle*

I think its ok to experiment once in a while. We all sometimes forget that Nairo is still 27 years old. Heck Froome won his first GT stage at 26 and first TDF stage at 27. Nairo already has 2 GTs under his belt!

 

[MovistarRider]

Re: Re:

But he hasn't lost that much time, its still under one minute and pretty much the same as Contador. Its not optimal, but its not bad either really after these 5 stages.

I agree that one minute isnt much but then again - the parcours just doesnt have much left for him to gain time. He will have to battle out of his skin to take this. In fact I tend to agree with Dekker, even a podium may be out of reach given the strong form Aru has shown. I do assume Porte will be on the podium.

Nairo has to do "a Aru" on some stage and definitely gain much more than a minute to stand a chance.

Blame the parcours.

If the last week would have 2 more multiple-mountain stages things would looked better for Nairo. I agree with you, this years route leaves Nairo with few opportunities to gain back time on Froome and that's why this is a extremely difficult challange.

The thing is, Nairo hasn't lost that much time. He's 54 seconds behind after a 14km TT and a Froome type of climb in a shape that is 'significantly' worse than those of his rivals. It was to be expected that he would give up some ground at both stages.

It's not the time he lost and is trailing in the GC that i'm worried about but more the lack of opportunities where he could gain some minutes back.

The more I think about it, the less it seems to make sense that Movistar opted for the Giro-TDF double with this years TDF parcourse. Nairo should have doing the Giro-Vuelta this year. That way he would probably won the Giro and start the Vuelta on a equel foot with Froome. Now, we lost the Giro because he couldn't attend there in 100% shape all because they where also gunning for the TDF with a parcours that makes it almost impossible for him to attack.

Thats exactly the point. *Hoping for a miracle*

I think its ok to experiment once in a while. We all sometimes forget that Nairo is still 27 years old. Heck Froome won his first GT stage at 26 and first TDF stage at 27. Nairo already has 2 GTs under his belt!

2 GTs is not that bad but he really should have at least 4 by now. I blame Unzue for that. The 2015 TDF was winnable had they not been conservative and wait until Alpe d'Huez to attack Froome.

And if I was in charge I wouldn't let Nairo do the Giro/TDF double this year with knowledge of the 2017 TDF parcourse. It just doesn't make any sense to start the Giro undercooked because you are also targeting the TDF (where you are starting with the Giro in your legs) against rivals who are lot fresher and in a parcourse that doesn't suit you as an out and out climber.

The only logical choice to do the TDF was in combination with the Vuelta. That way you would start the TDF on a equel foot with your rivals. And the Vuelta after would also see Nairo with the same kind of shape to most of his competitors, those who did the TDF anyway. Doing Giro-Vuelta would also have been a good option, but surely not the Giro-TDF double. Now we have the situation that the Giro is lost because of being undercooked and a TDF 'handicap' shape that is worse than those of your rivals because the Giro are in the legs.

With a different race schedule this year Nairo could have at least won the Giro (with the option to compete at the Vuelta) or skip the Giro and start fresh and stand a much better chance at the TDF (again with the option to compete at the Vuelta). If Nairo doesn't miraculously pull something crazy out of his hat than this year could be a horrendous one for Movistar in GT terms. Or one of Soler, Fernandez, Carapaz or Moreno has to surprise us at the Vuelta.

Thing is, Im not happy about both how Unzue is leading this team at the Grand Tours and how he plans Nairo's race schedule. I largely blame him for not winning the TDF in 2015 and for what is probably a lost 2017 year. And Im not sure Nairo will be entirely happy either about this whole situation and Unzue in particular. He will be in Colombia after the TDF for quite a while and I can see alot of thinking going on in his family house. If im correct his contract is until the end of 2019, if some things dont change next season than Nairo could option for no contract renewal. It wouldnt suprise me. Unzue has to step up his game and fast.

 

[Escarabajo]

I guess we already know the future!

 

[MovistarRider]

From CyclingPub yesterday:

"During these stages what we have to do is to save the day, and today we saved it very well. Now we are thinking about tomorrow."

"We hope to be good on the weekend. Up until now the feelings are good, and we are ready for what is coming."

"All I can say to the public is that so far I'm feeling good,"

Not sure what to make of it. Hopefully he is sunday much better than he was on wednesday.

 

[saneguy]

Tomorrow is really tough. We will definitely have our answers tomorrow. If he crosses Mont Du Chat in the company of the other GC guys I'd surely conclude that all is well. He might lose sometime in the decent thereafter but thats expected. Wednesday didnt look good at all to me. But he did say post today's stage that he is feeling well. *Fingers Crossed*.

 

[RattaKuningas]

Re:

Tomorrow is really tough. We will definitely have our answers tomorrow. If he crosses Mont Du Chat in the company of the other GC guys I'd surely conclude that all is well. He might lose sometime in the decent thereafter but thats expected. Wednesday didnt look good at all to me. But he did say post today's stage that he is feeling well. *Fingers Crossed*.

Might have just been a bad day for him in the wednesday. Considering that he didn't do any racing between Giro and Tour maybe he needs some racing to get going as well.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I think he'll do well tomorrow, I don't see him gaining time on his main rivals though.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Again, not really expecting much. When he was hyped to win the Giro in the multi mountain stages he was empty, surviving the day would be a huge plus altho it wont lead to anything else than a top-3 at best in Paris. Which is fine, but he has 3 podiums so I'd rather see him screwing everything and win a stage or just animate the race instead of following, following, following, getting distanced..

 

[Red Rick]

It depends a lot on what he did between the Giro and the Tour. If he mostly rested he should improve as the race continues.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

[quote="saneguy

I agree that one minute isnt much but then again - the parcours just doesnt have much left for him to gain time. He will have to battle out of his skin to take this. In fact I tend to agree with Dekker, even a podium may be out of reach given the strong form Aru has shown. I do assume Porte will be on the podium.

Nairo has to do "a Aru" on some stage and definitely gain much more than a minute to stand a chance.

Blame the parcours.

If the last week would have 2 more multiple-mountain stages things would looked better for Nairo. I agree with you, this years route leaves Nairo with few opportunities to gain back time on Froome and that's why this is a extremely difficult challange.

The thing is, Nairo hasn't lost that much time. He's 54 seconds behind after a 14km TT and a Froome type of climb in a shape that is 'significantly' worse than those of his rivals. It was to be expected that he would give up some ground at both stages.

It's not the time he lost and is trailing in the GC that i'm worried about but more the lack of opportunities where he could gain some minutes back.

The more I think about it, the less it seems to make sense that Movistar opted for the Giro-TDF double with this years TDF parcourse. Nairo should have doing the Giro-Vuelta this year. That way he would probably won the Giro and start the Vuelta on a equel foot with Froome. Now, we lost the Giro because he couldn't attend there in 100% shape all because they where also gunning for the TDF with a parcours that makes it almost impossible for him to attack.

Thats exactly the point. *Hoping for a miracle*

I think its ok to experiment once in a while. We all sometimes forget that Nairo is still 27 years old. Heck Froome won his first GT stage at 26 and first TDF stage at 27. Nairo already has 2 GTs under his belt!

2 GTs is not that bad but he really should have at least 4 by now. I blame Unzue for that. The 2015 TDF was winnable had they not been conservative and wait until Alpe d'Huez to attack Froome.

And if I was in charge I wouldn't let Nairo do the Giro/TDF double this year with knowledge of the 2017 TDF parcourse. It just doesn't make any sense to start the Giro undercooked because you are also targeting the TDF (where you are starting with the Giro in your legs) against rivals who are lot fresher and in a parcourse that doesn't suit you as an out and out climber.

The only logical choice to do the TDF was in combination with the Vuelta. That way you would start the TDF on a equel foot with your rivals. And the Vuelta after would also see Nairo with the same kind of shape to most of his competitors, those who did the TDF anyway. Doing Giro-Vuelta would also have been a good option, but surely not the Giro-TDF double. Now we have the situation that the Giro is lost because of being undercooked and a TDF 'handicap' shape that is worse than those of your rivals because the Giro are in the legs.

With a different race schedule this year Nairo could have at least won the Giro (with the option to compete at the Vuelta) or skip the Giro and start fresh and stand a much better chance at the TDF (again with the option to compete at the Vuelta). If Nairo doesn't miraculously pull something crazy out of his hat than this year could be a horrendous one for Movistar in GT terms. Or one of Soler, Fernandez, Carapaz or Moreno has to surprise us at the Vuelta.

Thing is, Im not happy about both how Unzue is leading this team at the Grand Tours and how he plans Nairo's race schedule. I largely blame him for not winning the TDF in 2015 and for what is probably a lost 2017 year. And Im not sure Nairo will be entirely happy either about this whole situation and Unzue in particular. He will be in Colombia after the TDF for quite a while and I can see alot of thinking going on in his family house. If im correct his contract is until the end of 2019, if some things dont change next season than Nairo could option for no contract renewal. It wouldnt suprise me. Unzue has to step up his game and fast.[/quote]

You're overestimating the guy. 4 Grand Tours, really!? He should be happy with this two, both had some controversies and both aren't won in dominant fashion.

And you blame Unzue! As if he's riding. Real champions ride the way they want and feel. No Unzue can stop real fighter and champion to attack when he's feeling strong. That's a fairy tale. And by the way, as I recall, Valverde offered him 2-3 springboards on stage 18 and 19, On Croix de Fer, he didn't do nothing. Nibali went on stage 19, he could've tried to bridge, but again did nothing. That were not Unzue's calls certainly. The truth is he left it too late, and if there's someone to blame that's him.

 

[Tonton]

Fair enough.

Giro + Tour = failure. Unless you're way above the rest, nope. Miscalculation. Big mistake.

 

[MovistarRider]

Lost 1:13

 

[portugal11]

His season is over... he won't even be in the podium

 

[DFA123]

Good heart again by Quintana today. He's clearly not got the legs, but is just about keeping himself within reach of the podium if he can find his best form in the third week.

 

[Asero831]

He should just abandon and line-up for Vuelta