National Football League

[Alpe d'Huez]

Leave the width of the goal like it is since there are still misses.

That's where we disagree. Because there are still misses isn't a good reason to not change the rules to make the game better, and more entertaining. As I pointed out before, Jan Stenereud is the only pure kicker in the Hall of Fame. He made 65% of his kicks. Today, it's 83% of all kick attempts are good. Not just the best kicker, all kickers averaged out . That's about 16% better. Plus, kicks are routinely made from longer and longer. So I suggest we take it back to Jan's time, and reduce the goal post width by that same percentage amount. Or, from 18' to 15' or a bit less. Not a massive, radical change. Just a logical one. That, and get rid of the flags.

A different story would be if the games were like hockey since their goal can be completely covered by a big and full padded goalie. That´s absurd. We are far from such situations in football.

LOL! Ever see Lacrosse? I like Lacrosse. But their goalies have maybe more padding on. But at least in Lacrosse the goal is bigger.

I agree though, the NHL has been so slow to change, or stop stupid things from happening. Almost as bad as MLB. Though nothing tops FIFA. Someone could come up with the most brilliant way to make Futbol more interesting, and FIFA would take three decades debating it and studying it. MLS are idiots for not being assertive on their own, instead holding FIFA sacred for some idiotic reason.

Not sure how many of you are in the Northeast, but if last night's weather is anything similar, it's going to be a really fun Superbowl! It was a total blizzard, maybe a foot of snow. Bitter cold and swirling winds. Game could end up 7-6, decided on a missed extra point.

Lots of whining by pundits on the radio saying having a cold weather Superbowl is a bad idea. Some people also saying they should build a dome in New York for football. Sissies. After all, no one shows up for Green Bay Packer games when it's cold and snowy there (hint: sarcasm). These people need to become NBA fans where they can stay safe and warm inside.

As an aside, I will give props to the NHL by the way for playing more games outside this season. A lot of whiners don't like this idea either, but it's been wildly popular, and the seats have been filled with happy fans. And the players like it too.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Well, since Foxxy's pickin DEN and Foxxy's the closest thing in this forum to a bookie, that tells us whose gonna win.

Just for fun, what if 2 years ago PManning had become a Seahawk? Seattle actually made a play for Peyton while he was being courted by Elway and the Broncos. Link to Seattle Times article talking about that scenario.
IMO:
1. Seattle would have been a bad fit for PM, what with Carroll's committment to the run game, OR
2. PM in Seattle would have resulted in reduced emphasis of the run, and reduced touches for Lynch.
3. If PM became a Hawk 2 years ago, where would Wilson be now?
Meh, I think the way it really ended up worked out better for all parties concerned.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

That's where we disagree. Because there are still misses isn't a good reason to not change the rules to make the game better, and more entertaining.

I know in the USA entertainment plays a big role. But for many europeans the sport itself is more important. This is no critic of your POV, just the difference in culture I guess.
So I actually like the increasing FG accuracy, b/c that reduces luck/randomness. It´s not fair that 11 players play their guts out to reach at least FG range just to see a single club med leg swinger destroy their efforts with a shank.
The PAT is a different story. If something is (almost) 100% certain, there´s no need to play it out.

I agree though, the NHL has been so slow to change, or stop stupid things from happening. Almost as bad as MLB. Though nothing tops FIFA. Someone could come up with the most brilliant way to make Futbol more interesting, and FIFA would take three decades debating it and studying it. MLS are idiots for not being assertive on their own, instead holding FIFA sacred for some idiotic reason.

What´s bad rule-wise in MLB (outside of fat contracts and guys like Steroid-Rod)? Did I miss something since I stopped caring in 2000?
Agree about the soccer stuff. The schizo thing is, that most fans, coaches and players are brainwashed and believe in the crap FIFA tells them (that for example video technique shall not be allowed since it would take away "Tatsachenentscheidungen" which are oh-so-great to discuss between fans. As if it´s a good idea to have a week long discussion about refs instead of a great game. It´s grotesque). FIFA will discuss for the next 100 years if the world doesn´t go down in between. I am completely out of it. And I truly loved it.
Idiots, the exact description; MLS going under the rules of mega corrupt FIFA on free will.
Sad that the NASL folded. They had good rules (penalty plays from midfield instead of the total random penalty kicks, clock stopped when the game stopped, similar to our beloved true-football), and the players (like Pele, Beckenbauer, Müller).

Not sure how many of you are in the Northeast, but if last night's weather is anything similar, it's going to be a really fun Superbowl! It was a total blizzard, maybe a foot of snow. Bitter cold and swirling winds. Game could end up 7-6, decided on a missed extra point.

We have the same climate here as in NY. At this time it´s bitter cold and snowing. Ugly. But better now than on february 2nd.

Lots of whining by pundits on the radio saying having a cold weather Superbowl is a bad idea. Some people also saying they should build a dome in New York for football. Sissies. After all, no one shows up for Green Bay Packer games when it's cold and snowy there (hint: sarcasm). These people need to become NBA fans where they can stay safe and warm inside.

LOL.

As an aside, I will give props to the NHL by the way for playing more games outside this season. A lot of whiners don't like this idea either, but it's been wildly popular, and the seats have been filled with happy fans. And the players like it too.

True hockey. That´s how it was meant to be.

Just for fun, what if 2 years ago PManning had become a Seahawk? ...
1. Seattle would have been a bad fit for PM, what with Carroll's committment to the run game, OR
2. PM in Seattle would have resulted in reduced emphasis of the run, and reduced touches for Lynch.
3. If PM became a Hawk 2 years ago, where would Wilson be now?
Meh, I think the way it really ended up worked out better for all parties concerned.

Most likely: SEA would have become a passing team. Good coaches trim their systems to players fit. Hey, even Fox was able to do it in Denver.
Wilson would be a unknown career back-up (I don´t wanna take away from him, but that happens when you sit behind a perennial starter. See Favre.)
SEA would be the best team ever, and PM might have had already got rid of his lack of playoff success. On a bad day the D would have bailed him out and the other way round.

 

[Merckx index]

Why do all the bookies have Broncos as favourites? Seahawks clearly the better all round team.

No one will admit it, but a lot of people are betting with their hearts, not their heads. They want to see Manning complete a season for the ages and win another ring. I'd like to see that, too, but that doesn't mean I think DE will win.

We can find previous matchups to support one outcome or the other, but how about SB 19? A lot people, ignoring Miami’s poor defense and lack of a running game, thought Marino would blow away the 49ers, even with Montana. No one had been able to shut them down the entire season; they scored fewer than 28 points only twice, with Marino passing for 48 TDs and over 5000 yards. Considering that offenses did not have the rule advantages they have today, I'd say that was a more impressive season than Manning/Denver this year, probably the best ever by a QB. I think Foxxy would agree. But they lost, and lost badly.

Of course, the 49ers had a very good offense of their own that year, certainly much better balanced than Miami's. How about SB 37? A classic matchup between the no. 1 offense and the no. 1 defense, like this year. A lot of people thought TB would be overwhelmed by Rich Gannon and the Polish Cannon, four point favorites. Who was Brad Johnson?

Just for fun, what if 2 years ago PManning had become a Seahawk? Seattle actually made a play for Peyton while he was being courted by Elway and the Broncos.

As I pointed out a while back, the 49ers were much closer to getting him. They made the final cut of three teams, along with Tennessee. As it turned out, they got rid of Alex Smith, anyway, so if PM had chosen SF, they might not have hurt their long-term chances at QB, assuming Kaep was willing to sit a few years.

As I pointed out before, Jan Stenereud is the only pure kicker in the Hall of Fame. He made 65% of his kicks. Today, it's 83% of all kick attempts are good. Not just the best kicker, all kickers averaged out . That's about 16% better.

Actually, it’s about 28% better. Raising a big question for me: why? It isn’t because more games are played indoors, because a great many are not. Why are kickers more accurate today? Is it true at the college level, too? (my impression is that it is, but I don’t have any data bearing on this.) And the extra point % is mind-boggling. Four misses out of more than one thousand attempts this year. That is better than 99.5%. How has this come about?

Extra points have always been considered pretty automatic, but it used to be they were missed about 10% of the time. In 1982, the year after they won the SB, the 49ers could have made the playoffs again with a losing record in a strike-shortened season, if they beat the Rams in their final game. They lost by one point, because they missed an extra point and a chip shot FG. In defending the kicker after the game, it was pointed out that he only missed two extra points all season (which was only nine games), which was about average at the time. If a kicker today missed two extra points in what amounts to half a season, he would probably lose his job. That same year, Washington’s Mark Moseley was player of the year because he didn’t miss a FG the entire season—though it was only nine games, and in the postseason he missed several.

Lots of whining by pundits on the radio saying having a cold weather Superbowl is a bad idea.

I used to think so, but am coming around to it. What it does is not so much favor one team over another, though I do think it does to some extent, but certain players over others. Some players just have better cold tolerance, better ability to run in or keep their footing in snow, and so on. Going into a game like this, we can’t know who they are, they probably don’t know who they are, but one of them could end up a hero by making a play that is particularly difficult in that weather.

I liken it to having TdFs that vary in MTFs and ITTs, which may favor certain riders over others.

Some more SB trivia:

1. DE is the only team to have played SBs against teams representing all four of the other conference’s divisions (as currently constituted). If they beat SE, they will have won SBs against teams from three different divisions. To date, three teams, Pittsburgh, Dallas and SF, have done this. The one division DE has had trouble with is the NFC E. They played their first three SBs against three different NFC E teams, and lost all of them, badly.
2. The NFC E has sent the most teams to the SB, eighteen, and won the most SBs, twelve. The NFC S has sent the fewest, four, and with the AFC S, won the fewest, two (I count the Colts when they won a SB when in Baltimore).
3. No division can boast a SB win for all four of its teams, but three divisions—the NFC E, the AFC E, and the AFC W—have three teams that have won SBs. If SE wins, the NFC W will join them.
4. Four teams have never been in a SB—Cleveland, Detroit, Houston and Jacksonville. But the latter two are at least relatively new, while Cleveland and Detroit were part of the original nfl, around when the SB began. Houston, the newest team, is the only one never to have played even in a conference championship.

 

[The Hitch]

At least one of those four misses this season was when Detroit tried it in 10 feet of snow in Philly after their 2 point got moved back.

Though I do remember Seattle had one blocked against the cardinals which they got to retake.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

If SF had signed PManning he would have been safe there b/c of the good SF OLine. Not so in SEA. As much as Russell Wilson has had to run for his life the last 2 years, PManning would have been hit a lot, although PM probably would have audibilized his way out of some of those that Wilson missed on. Anyway, it is pretty clear why PM did not really consider SEA, but SF could have been a good fit.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

PManning would have been hit a lot

I don´t think so. PM was always at the top or near the top in being the least sacked QB. It´s highly unlikely that his teams always fielded one of the best O lines (to proof that, just have a look at his teams rushing "attacks" ).
While it´s great that he might have the best OL play this year he ever had, thus leading to an (almost) unstoppable offense, most of his success has to do with his quick reads, descicions, and release*.

This year** (at 2.1 seconds on average of all his throws) he was the quickest releaser of NFL starting QBs.

* I assume everybody here agrees that his success doesn´t come from good arm strength and/or tight spirals (thus perfect throwing mechanics)

** he may have led many more years, but I only found this years numbers from PFF

 

[Oldman]

I don´t think so. PM was always at the top or near the top in being the least sacked QB. It´s highly unlikely that his teams always fielded one of the best O lines (to proof that, just have a look at his teams rushing "attacks" ).
While it´s great that he might have the best OL play this year he ever had, thus leading to an (almost) unstoppable offense, most of his success has to do with his quick reads, descicions, and release*.

This year** (at 2.1 seconds on average of all his throws) he was the quickest releaser of NFL starting QBs.

* I assume everybody here agrees that his success doesn´t come from good arm strength and/or tight spirals (thus perfect throwing mechanics)
** he may have led many more years, but I only found this years numbers from PFF

This will be the key. Manning's release will always help him avoid getting sacked. That said, his receivers will need to work their way off of the line as Seattle's defenders will be making contact.
PM also throws a lot of floaters....he won't get to make many of those throws without losing the game.
Many are making the Seattle OL sound like they can't provide protection. They can but the highlighted scrambling plays are what you remember. I have a feeling that will be more by design than urgency to get Lynch open.
Another week to go.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I really don't think Seattle will worry about pressuring Manning, but I do agree the DBs will play a constant pressure nickle package, with the LB's guarding the middle of the field (essentially the Tampa 2 defense).

As I mentioned, I do think Seattle will win, as I think they have a better overall team. And I don't think Pete Caroll will give up on the running attack the way Belicheck did. Which helps Seattle in the cold of NY. But a Denver win wouldn't surprise me. They have PM, very good receivers, and their defense is playing better despite missing a few players.

I will say this though, if Denver wins, I hope the weather is horrible, and Manning has to make a high-pressure 4th quarter comeback to win it. He does that, and it really will cement him in history. If the Broncos get out to a 10 point lead and stay there, with him just managing the game and making few mistakes - Trent Dilfor style - that won't answer anything (though his fans will loudly proclaim it did). In my eyes he's already great. But to win in bad weather, on a late comeback, that would be something amazing, and something few people expect.

Pro Bowl draft was yesterday. Did anyone even pay attention?!

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

(1) But to win in bad weather, on a late comeback, that would be something amazing, and something few people expect.
... (2) Did anyone even pay attention?!

(1) Then I won´t be around here next year b/c I certainly would suffer a heart attack...
Let´s do it the normal way; come out passing, built a lead and then sit on it. I prefer that...

(2) No... who cares

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Pro Bowl draft was yesterday. Did anyone even pay attention?!

Nope, and knew it was going on. Watched Sound FX of the SEA-SF game though. That was entertaining.

 

[Oldman]

I really don't think Seattle will worry about pressuring Manning, but I do agree the DBs will play a constant pressure nickle package, with the LB's guarding the middle of the field (essentially the Tampa 2 defense).

As I mentioned, I do think Seattle will win, as I think they have a better overall team. And I don't think Pete Caroll will give up on the running attack the way Belicheck did. Which helps Seattle in the cold of NY. But a Denver win wouldn't surprise me. They have PM, very good receivers, and their defense is playing better despite missing a few players.

I will say this though, if Denver wins, I hope the weather is horrible, and Manning has to make a high-pressure 4th quarter comeback to win it. He does that, and it really will cement him in history. If the Broncos get out to a 10 point lead and stay there, with him just managing the game and making few mistakes - Trent Dilfor style - that won't answer anything (though his fans will loudly proclaim it did). In my eyes he's already great. But to win in bad weather, on a late comeback, that would be something amazing, and something few people expect.

Pro Bowl draft was yesterday. Did anyone even pay attention?!

As a local fan I hope Seattle wins. If not for PM's sake I hope he wins in your scenario. He's given up 4 neck surgeries and a multitude of bad endorsement choices to stay in the game.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

While we're at that dead period, waiting. Here's a look back at my pre-season predictions.

A summary:

In the NFC

I had the Skins and Giants fighting it out. Ooops.

But I did pick the Packers in the north.

I also had the Saints on top of the South, but gave props to Carolina if Newton could lead them. I wasn't big on Atlanta, and said Freeman would be TBs undoing.

In the west I said both Seattle and SF could go 13-3.

In the AFC.

I liked NE in the east (an easy pick, really).

I said the Ravens would win the North, with Cincy behind, and the Steelers rebuilding some.

I liked Houston in the South, and said Luck would have a great year, with Indy just behind them.

I picked Denver in the west, and got the division right.

I was half right in the playoffs. I said Seattle would take the NFC, and in the AFC championship Manning would fold to the Texans (way wrong!).

I picked Seattle in the Superbowl.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

@Alpe: Like my reduced sized photo?

Not bad on the picks btw.

Well, let me throw some gas on the fire. Apparently the league is investigating a ST play in the SEA-SF NFC championship game last week where Hawk's outside gunner Jeremy Lane was mysteriously taken down on the SF sideline after being forced out of bounds. They will need another camera angle because the random hitter is obscured behind what appears to be a 9ers staffer. The only thing discernible about the culprit is that he's not a player in game uniform.
VIDEO LINK

 

[Oldman]

@Alpe: Like my reduced sized photo?

Not bad on the picks btw.

Well, let me throw some gas on the fire. Apparently the league is investigating a ST play in the SEA-SF NFC championship game last week where Hawk's outside gunner Jeremy Lane was mysteriously taken down on the SF sideline after being forced out of bounds. They will need another camera angle because the random hitter is obscured behind what appears to be a 9ers staffer. The only thing discernible about the culprit is that he's not a player in game uniform.
VIDEO LINK

Saw that live and no officials picked up on it. I'm sure there's lots of crap that goes on similarly...
Weather looks particularly sketchy with more talk of the game on a different day. That does not favor a pass happy game. I really want to see both teams play to their strengths where weather doesn't overwhelmingly screw with it.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I know weather forecast for one week into the future is (still) lottery, but I had to cool down, so I looked at my favo forecast site:

They predict between low 30s to 40s with minimal rain... sigh of relief (for now)

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Foxxy - Why do you want your guy (PM) to have perfect conditions and win the game going away? That puzzles me. Wouldn't it make more sense to want what I do: Miserable weather and a late game comeback, converting a few 3rd and 4th down throws? This would really cement PM's place in history. To simply win a "Dilfer" game would not only still leave questions, it would be boring as could be.

Also, when you look at weather forecasts consider two things - First, the game isn't played during the day, but at night. So look at the high and low temps, and split them. That's what you'll likely get. Temps in this part of the world can get reasonably warm in the daytime, and bitter cold at night. Second, because there are thousands of miles of open land here (no mountains), it's often very difficult to predict the weather unless there is a massive storm (nor'easter), or a huge ridge of high pressure (dry, sunny) building. Mixed weather like we're having, and is forecast, is notoriously difficult to nail down more than about 2-3 days out. Having lived here a couple years, I would be shocked if it's 40 degrees, or rains. That would be rare. The most likely scenario is about 20 degrees, a light breeze and some clouds.

Just for fun, let's watch the predictions over the next week.

Here is the National Weather Service. They don't predict that far out.

Here is Accuweather. They say 35-26, with a chance of snow showers, and winds 7-20 mph.

Here is the Weather Channel. They say a light wintery mix (snow, rain, sleet) 60% likely, 35-29 temps, Winds 9mph.

Here is NBC New York. They don't predict that far out either.

CBS New York doesn't predict that far out either.

If doing other searches, make sure you look for East Rutherford, NJ weather, Not New York City. Some sites may not have it as it's not much of a town, so instead search for either Hoboken (a few miles SE) or Passaic (a few miles NW). New York is even further to the east. Yes, very close, but we do want accuracy.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Foxxy - Why do you want your guy (PM) to have perfect conditions and win the game going away?

Because it´s time. It´s overdue. Too many disappointments after great hopes. Just a few examples that come to mind;

BUF 1990; the leg swinger spoiled the party

MIN 1998; the leg swinger at it again. Could have been the greatest SB ever featuring Elway and the "nuclear blast" offense of Minnesota

From 2000 on it really went down. Actually it got ugly. SL either was cheated out of victory, Warner was injured or SL simply forgot to field a defense... What we got instead? The cheaters, BAL on a ugly team playing football from the 20s and the OAK mess vs TB (it´s worth reading what happened to that OLer, the game plan, the HC, and thus ended in a disaster).

05/06 were actually good, then came the low point (and I tought we´d seen it all in the early 2000s). The lowest of the lows for 07 and 08.

09/10 were pretty good, just to have another two undeserving teams (if we agree that the regular season should have some meaning) after that.

The 80s were great, the 90s too with just a few outliers. But the 2000s SBs and post seasons spoiled (mostly) the greatness of NFL football.

So yes, Denver should play in as good weather as it can get, with the ball bouncing their directions when the un-preventable randomness gets into the game. I prefer a good old 80s blow-out with DEN winning. Unlikely but possible.

SEA deserves it too. But not this year. We could end with one of the greatest seasons ever if DEN wins. I am ok with if SEA wins the next five on thrilling endings with defense TDs or whatever. But please not this year.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

That still doesn't make any sense. You say "too many disappointments". But would not it be great if Seattle were winning 16-10 with 1:20 remaining, and after struggling all day, Manning drove the Broncos 90 yards, into the snow and wind, converted a couple 3rd and 4th down conversions and lead them to victory with a clutch pass? Nothing disappointing, or shocking about that. Just the playing we all know he can do (possibly, at his best). That's the kind of ending for Manning I want. And what an exciting ending that would be!

To have another Superbowl like the 49ers-Chargers or 49ers-Broncos, especially if it was because of several fortunate bounces, would be I think disappointing.

You mention "leg swingers" yet when I show stats and talk about FG's being so automatic and boring we should change the rules a little - to make more games determined on the field by more than one player - you don't want to.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

That still doesn't make any sense. You say "too many disappointments". But would not it be great if Seattle were winning 16-10 with 1:20 remaining, and after struggling all day, Manning drove the Broncos 90 yards...

You mention "leg swingers" yet when I show stats and talk about FG's being so automatic and boring we should change the rules a little - to make more games determined on the field by more than one player - you don't want to.

Of course that would be great, if DEN comes out winning of such a thriller. But I have a little doubt for myself if I could get trou the game without heart-attack. That´s why I prefer a sound blow-out where i can relax from halftime on. I know that´s selfish, but who isn´t at least sometimes?

Confused about the kicker stuff now. I thought you like the accuracy go down? But if it goes down, it also means the games depend more again on kickers. Nowadays a team knows when they drive good, they likely come up with points. Back in the older days much team effort was wasted by many missed kicks...

Remember the SF-CIN SB were Cofer missed an 18-yarder early. Imagine if Montana didn´t drove the 49ers down field the last minute or his next to last pass was intercepted. The 3 points would have been greatly missed. Instead of Rice 215 yard day being honoured, and Montanas 338 pass day, Esiason would have come away with a Brady-like 140 something day as SB-winner. The thought itself is painful...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Now that´s cool. A trivia:

Player A 450 /659- 68.3% - 5,477 yds 8.3 Y/Att 55 TDP 10 Int
Player B 326 /481 - 67.8% - 4,291 yds 8.9 Y/Att 51 TDP 2 Int

Who is player A, who´s player B ?

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Now that´s cool. A trivia:

Player A 450 /659- 68.3% - 5,477 yds 8.3 Y/Att 55 TDP 10 Int
Player B 326 /481 - 67.8% - 4,291 yds 8.9 Y/Att 51 TDP 2 Int

Who is player A, who´s player B ?

Player A obviously = Peyton Manning 2013
Player B must be trick question. Only other NFL player to reach 50 TDs in one season was Brady 2007, and it was exactly 50 (not 51). Is "B" a CFL or EFL player maybe?

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

FOR ENTERTAINMENT, here's a real funny video that if you have not seen you gotta watch on "BAD LIP READING IN THE NFL". Not sure if this was inspired by Derrick Coleman of the Seahawks. (LINK)

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Interesting clip on NFL network about Broncos offense, part of which talked about big plays. Watch for DEN to run trips left or trips right in different formations. Last week they ran trips to one side or the other in a ^ bunch formation with one WR up on the line and two WRs off the line on both sides of the WR on the line. They got big plays out of this, mainly because 1) the defensive CB over the trips blitzed (that's right, leaving at least one WR uncovered), and 2) Manning read the blitz and got the ball out fast. The play turned into a screen that worked very well, I think including one TD romp by Demaryius Thomas. The Pats blitzing their CB who was lined up over the trips was an extremely bad defensive call and immediately put the defensive secondary at a big disadvantage out there. You could really see the play by Manning and his wideouts coming when the blitz started. I will be interested to see how SEA counters this formation, but I do not expect corner blitzes from the trips side.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Now that´s cool. A trivia:
Who is player A, who´s player B ?

Player B is either someone in another league (CFL, NCAA division II, etc). Or, it's someone's stats split over two seasons. It could be both. I was looking at Case Keenum, Colt Brennan, and Bryce Petty as all three threw a lot of TD's and not a lot of Ints, but none of them fit, even with stats split over two years. Didn't look up Timmy Chang, Andre Ware, Kellen Moore and others.

As to Seattle playing against trips. There is no way they will run a corner blitz. I'll be surprised if they blitz much at all with one exception: Bruce Irvin - and he's a pass rush specialist anyway. No, I said what Seattle will do, crowd the line of scrimmage and play a very hard pressure game on Denver's receivers. A great battle in the game will be to see how well these guys can get out, and if Manning can hit them in the 5-15 yard range. He's been great at it all year, and Seattle's been great at stopping it all year.