National Football League

[The Hitch]

The right choice for Texans is obviously to pick Clowney and trade for Vick. If a quarter back comes along in the 2nd or 3rd round take them, but don't pass up the dream team of Clowney Watt on a risk.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Maybe next year I'll pull out another saying, like maybe "The best defense is a great offense".

End of story. Time to move on to next season.

Congrats "army3" your favourite team won. Didn´t you also like BAL last year? Or was it Amster?
I´ll put another saying too next season: "A team with a pure pocket passer will win the SB, not named Tom Brady or Peyton Manning".

Since Alpe declared the official ending, what we do now?

I think i´ll watch olympic hockey. Does anyone know if the NHL pros are there?
If so, i´ll root for Russias offense with Ovetchkin (even tough it´s pretty much useless since hockey games indeed are won by the best defenses more often than not). I guess Oldman will root for USA. So we can have some heated discussions.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Congrats "army3" your favourite team won. Didn´t you also like BAL last year? Or was it Amster?

Thanks. It was a long time waiting for a SB win. Not sure about Amster, but I was pulling for BAL-so-hard last year.

The right choice for Texans is obviously to pick Clowney and trade for Vick. If a quarter back comes along in the 2nd or 3rd round take them, but don't pass up the dream team of Clowney Watt on a risk.

Yeah, the tough part for HOU is they are in the unenviable position of having several needs: QB, DE, OT. I always like to draft the best athlete available, and that is easier to do when a team does not have a lot of needs. But it is harder to do when there are several significant needs. Then it becomes a balancing act and a guessing game (between one team and the others on draft day) trying to figure out if certain players are going to be available when it comes time to make the pick. There also can be a bit of an internal (within a team's draft squad) tug of war between team needs and best athlete available. I can see HOU going for the DE Clowney and then trying to pick up a QB later (Tajh Boyd, Garoppolo, Mettenberger, Logan Thomas, AJ McCarron should be available after round 1) or trade for a QB (outside of Cousins I don't see any long term prospects worth trading for). But, being that QB is the most important position, I can also see them going for a QB in round 1 and then trying to pick up a DE and OT in later rounds. Some good DE prospects that might be available after round 1: Kony Ealy (Mizzou), Stephon Tuitt (ND). I think they will go with a QB in round 1, and Bridgewater really impressed me in the whatever bowl. He's a bit light (196 lbs) but is 6'3" and can add some necessary weight. But if they take Manziel and he's a bust, that will not be good for HOU. It would be like the Vikes Part II.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Thanks. It was a long time waiting for a SB win. Not sure about Amster, but I was pulling for BAL-so-hard last year.

So SEA is No 1, and BAL No 2 ?
You lucky old defensive guy I am waiting since 1999 truly, last time happy with the SB outcome when GB and the year before NO won. Both fielded great efficient pass offenses trou-out the RS and Post-Season.
The most pi$$ed I was with SL 2001 and AZ 2008 (of whom I don´t blame the offenses but the refs, as you know. I know I am repeating. But what can I do?). This year doesn´t even come close.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Yup, I was for the Ravens in a big way last year. This year's game was an utterly depressing spectacle for any kind of neutral. Congrats to 3man and any Hawk fans. For the rest of us, a game to forget as quickly as possible.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

So SEA is No 1, and BAL No 2 ?
You lucky old defensive guy I am waiting since 1999 truly, last time happy with the SB outcome when GB and the year before NO won. Both fielded great efficient pass offenses trou-out the RS and Post-Season.

Well, good things eventually come to those who have patience, right?

On last year, let me clarify. I also was pulling for SEA last year until they were knocked out by Atlanta. So then I picked another team to root for after that. I played both ways in the day, but D was my favorite because it required less thought and was easier to light someone up. Add to that the facts that it has become such as pass-happy league and the rules have been changed to favor offenses, it has become my impression that defenses are the underdogs. So for last years Super Bowl, BAL has a defense led by one of my favorites (Ray Lewis, tho he's not everyone's fav) going against a team (SF) with a pretty darn good offense... so I pulled for BAL in that SB. But I bleed Seahawk blue and green and have been a fan of theirs through all the bad times as well as the good times. Had SEA played BAL last year, make no mistake who I would have pulled for to win.

Everyone has their favs for reasons, and whoever they pull for is cool too. Now Alpe is a Silver and Black fan, and back in the Howie Long-Marcus Allen days (and before that) I liked that team also, even though the Raiders and SEA were in the same division. I really hope the Raiders can get back to where they were and make the AFC West a tougher division.

Teams I can't root for... #1 on that list of mine is DAL. Why? JJones screwed the pooch not long after he acquired that team.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Yup, I was for the Ravens in a big way last year. This year's game was an utterly depressing spectacle for any kind of neutral. Congrats to 3man and any Hawk fans. For the rest of us, a gme to forget as quickly as possible.

I understand, as a neutral spectator this SB was not exciting b/c it was not close.

I feel bad for RGIII and your favorite team, the Redskins, this year. What a let down. I was hoping they could challenge for the division or more.

 

[Oldman]

Well, good things eventually come to those who have patience, right?

On last year, let me clarify. I also was pulling for SEA last year until they were knocked out by Atlanta. So then I picked another team to root for after that. I played both ways in the day, but D was my favorite because it required less thought and was easier to light someone up. Add to that the facts that it has become such as pass-happy league and the rules have been changed to favor offenses, it has become my impression that defenses are the underdogs. So for last years Super Bowl, BAL has a defense led by one of my favorites (Ray Lewis, tho he's not everyone's fav) going against a team (SF) with a pretty darn good offense... so I pulled for BAL in that SB. But I bleed Seahawk blue and green and have been a fan of theirs through all the bad times as well as the good times. Had SEA played BAL last year, make no mistake who I would have pulled for to win.

Everyone has their favs for reasons, and whoever they pull for is cool too. Now Alpe is a Silver and Black fan, and back in the Howie Long-Marcus Allen days (and before that) I liked that team also, even though the Raiders and SEA were in the same division. I really hope the Raiders can get back to where they were and make the AFC West a tougher division.

Teams I can't root for... #1 on that list of mine is DAL. Why? JJones screwed the pooch not long after he acquired that team.

There were some great Divisional rivalries including Denver. Not that anyone playing now would have that sense of history. SF-Sea will be a hard-hitting matchup for years to come.
Dallas....what can you say about that Owner. Between the face lift and fiddling with the team you almost feel sorry for the players.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Now Alpe is a Silver and Black fan, and back in the Howie Long-Marcus Allen days (and before that) I liked that team also, even though the Raiders and SEA were in the same division...

Want to know something interesting? I wasn't always a Raiders fan. In the 70's I both liked and disliked them for varying reasons. I liked some of the players, I cheered for them against the Steelers for example. But I didn't like the way they won some games, and the "cheating". I didn't like it at all. I often cheered for the Chargers to beat them (recall I'm from Oregon, as is Dan Fouts). I wanted the Browns to beat them in 1980. I more often cheered for Seattle and San Francisco too.

But things changed over time. I lived in the south Bay Area for a while in the 80's, began to relate to their working class fans when they moved back to Oakland (though that was the 90's), and understood the Black Hole that so many other fans hate. I admired the whole Raider Nation more and more. And probably when they first moved back to Oakland, then got Jerry Rice - who was my favorite player - they became my single favorite team.

But I have always said that I like west coast teams, as I'm from the west coast. Raiders, Seahawks, 49ers, Chargers, Cardinals. Those are my "favorite" teams. But as you know, time changes your perception. Unless you're born with the blood in your veins (ie. Raider Nation generations), you often reach middle age and just have teams you admire, and teams you don't. And that can often change from season to season. For example, I've liked Baltimore for a while, as I like the way the organization is run as a whole, and I admired Ray Lewis a great deal too. I admire Tom Brady, and Bill Belicheck, even though I'm not a fan of BB's tactics sometimes, and often enough root against them. Lately, I find myself liking Indianapolis, as I think Luck is a superstar QB, and I like the direction the organization is taking the team.

So yes, I am a Raiders "fan". I do like them most. I cheer for them every time I see them play, and have for many years now. Even though they suck, have for some years, and until they crawl out of salary cap hell and start eliminating all the dead money on their books, they're still going to suck. But I do think there is hope, maybe 2015 and beyond. If they can stick with a coaching staff and build confidence in them. We'll see.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Yup, I was for the Ravens in a big way last year. This year's game was an utterly depressing spectacle for any kind of neutral. Congrats to 3man and any Hawk fans. For the rest of us, a game to forget as quickly as possible.

Welcome back from the exile.

Well, good things eventually come to those who have patience, right?

I don´t have much more patience left...
The 80s & 90s (outside of the annual McMahon injury disasters) were great, mostly won by awesome offenses. I thought this will go on forever. The reason I felt in love with football (as someone who grew up with boring defense soccer, this felt like heaven). Even some of the old pundits woke up and admitted a good O is needed to prevail.
But now that they fully understood it, more often than not D (or random) teams win. What an irony; it happens in the declared era of "NFL is a passing league"*. The "experts" are always behind the actual things.

(* The NFL was always a passing league, starting with the Luckman days in the 40s. The only anomally were the 70s.)

just have teams you admire, and teams you don't. And that can often change from season to season.

Cool. Like me. We are one of the few members of the "free agent fans" club.
We change teams like greedy players do. They don´t care about us, we don´t about them.

P.S.: Had a look at the NHL page. Cool; Russia comes with Ovechkin and Malkin. Now we know hockey is even more luck than NFL football, but it would be great if Russia meets USA in the final. Would be an epic showdown.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

There were some great Divisional rivalries including Denver. Not that anyone playing now would have that sense of history. SF-Sea will be a hard-hitting matchup for years to come.

! Cut & pasting with mobile is so frigging hard. Oh well. I remember some of those early division rivalry games at Denver. Back then Seattle thought Denver was loud. And they were but not by today's standards. how times have changed.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Want to know something interesting? I wasn't always a Raiders fan. In the 70's I both liked and disliked them for varying reasons. I liked some of the players, I cheered for them against the Steelers for example. But I didn't like the way they won some games, and the "cheating". I didn't like it at all. I often cheered for the Chargers to beat them (recall I'm from Oregon, as is Dan Fouts). I wanted the Browns to beat them in 1980. I more often cheered for Seattle and San Francisco too..

kind of like me and the NBA now that Seattle is homeless.

Hey I loved Dan Fouts! nobody like him since has had such a soft touch with such a quick release.

what cheating are you talking about with the Raiders? bad memory serves me badly.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Fouts was definitely one of the best. He did have a great touch, and threw the ball down the field like few QBs do today. But he also took too many risks I felt. If you look at his career, he ended up with a lot of INTs. I think that (and not winning a SB) keeps him from being on a lot of pundits top 5 list.

Super nice guy too. True Oregonian. Though born in the bay area, went to college in Eugene (U of O), and still has a house near Sisters and Bend. People who run into him say he's just like he is on TV interviews. A very easy smile and happy to chat with fans. (Drew Bledsoe also lives in that area, and fans say he's stiff as a board. Oh wait, that's right, he's from Washington ).

As an aside, you can Google both of their homes. Dan's looks like a modest 3 bedroom home. Drew lives in a mansion. Shows you how times, and pay scales, have changed through the years.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

On Drew: You just have to know Drew. And IF I did I'm sure he'd be ok. Guy like that could do a lot for young players coming out of HS. Maybe he does, but I've not heard such. I know a Bend OR recruiter, Bob Warsaw. Runs GoVarsitySports.com with a staff of about a dozen. Helps HS kids with the recruiting process. He must know or maybe even work with Dan or Drew. If you go to Warsaw's website he has quite a list of recruits he's helped sign, including son of former Seahawk RB Curt Warner. I don't know that son Johnathan needed much help though, seeing as how he signed with guess who? Penn State.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Alpe (& others if interested in), you remember the discussion of bringing a obese Sumo ringer in as a NHL goalie? To my surprise, it was actually tested.
Funny vid. Enjoy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP8ZVWiZUMA

Only problem I have with the SpSc-Guys; they fake. Here they show the same shot every time. On the Brees vid the showed the same throw every time. Why do they always wanna cheat us?
Anyway, my guess is the NHL pro would score max 2 out of 10 when both guys (like in the vid) cover the goal. What you think?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

That was pretty funny. I didn't completely realize how big the hockey goal was until I saw that vid.

No, it wasn't a completely scientific test. No defenders. The shooter wasn't moving, etc. etc. But I think it answers the question why they don't just stick a 600lb Sumo guy in there. He's not agile enough, or trained enough, or even big enough. And most shooters in hockey are good enough to find small windows to squeeze the puck in.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Interesting and funny (like the crotch shot) Sumo goalie vid Foxxy. They did make interesting point - that we are not going to see any overly large, slow moving goalies anytime in the future. And it shows just how good the NHL guys really are: 1) for the goalies to be cat quick good enough to stop anything at all, and 2) the precision shooting that goes on.

It was a bit fake in that they had their NHL guy in the video take shots standing, not moving, from only one spot. Add movement and defensive pressure it becomes a more difficult shot. The SpSc-guys kind of neutralized that by using a defender to do the shooting instead of a sharpshooter. Adding motion and using a sharpshooter, then I think the sharpshooter actually may create more gaps because the big goalie won't move well in response.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

What idiots come up with the ESPN questions of the day? Here's today's stupid question:
"If your team needed a quarterback and he was available at their spot in the draft, would you want them to draft Johnny Manziel?"
My questions were 1) what other QBs are still available, 2) what round are we talking about, 3) what other athletes are also available?
One could only assume it was round 1 and all QBs were available. If that was the case, then I'd say NO. But I said YES just to go against the grain.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

No. No matter where in the draft. And my team (Raiders) "need" a franchise QB.

That was easy.

I've explained my reasons before quite clearly. If I were Dennis Allen, I'd go to both Terrell Pryor and Matt McGloin and tell both of them the same thing: "You played well this season, though not to the level of a franchise QB. But you're still young. So next training camp is going to be your big chance. The team and I will offer you any and all assistance you need to prepare, and try to guide you, but it's really up to you to work your tail off Russell Wilson-style, and show me you are our franchise QB. See you in a few months."

Speaking of Wilson's preparation. Anyone watch ESPN's 30 for 30 on Jerry Rice? He still didn't reveal a lot, but the two stories that really stuck out were about growing up as a boy and catching bricks to help his father work as a mason and the skills that gave him. The second was after they won a Superbowl, and three days later Steve Young went to their practice facility to clear out his own locker. The entire facility was empty, like a ghost town. Except two guys out on the practice field out back. Jerry Rice, and a trainer he convinced to throw him balls and help him work on skills.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

pretty easy for sure.

Hey Raiders should hire you.

yes I saw that 30 on 30 episode with Jerry Rice. I think NFL Network aired it starting the week before the Superbowl. pretty amazing work ethic for sure. also pretty amazing how he would catch bricks for his dad somewhere up on a scaffold with somebody tossing them up from the ground level. they said that really built up his hand strength. maybe others should try the same method as it certainly served Jerry Rice very well.

did anyone see the episode about drew Brees and Tomlinson as they started out there NFL career with the Chargers? what's a lot of people probably do not know is that drew Brees and Tomlinson played together on the same high school All Star team, then attended the same Heisman Trophy awards ceremony, and then got drafted number 1 and number 2 by the Chargers with Tomlinson going as the first overall pick. in the previous NFL season the Chargers record was 1-15, and the two players I made a vow to take the Chargers to the Superbowl. it almost worked before drew Brees was injured and should have worked even after he was injured if only the head coach Marty Schottenheimer had not been fired and Drew Brees not been traded.

 

[The Hitch]

Speaking of Wilson's preparation. Anyone watch ESPN's 30 for 30 on Jerry Rice?.

I saw part of the 30 for 30 on bo jackson and they were seriously presenting as truth supernatural stories about what he did as a child. Theyd have a clip of his pee wee football coach saying bo run the 100m in 9.50 or something when he was 12 years old, then some other coach talking about how he broke the sound boom by throwing a stone.

That whole series is bull****. Goes way over the top on sensationalism even by sports journalism standards. They know the target audience knows jack **** about 90% of what appears there so they dont bother investigating anything, just offer whatever story sounds coolest.

On a related note, a different documentary but I think still ESPN said Tom Brady's first ever football match he attended was the NFC championship game with the catch and that was when he decided to become a NFL Quarterback?

Really. Of all the 49er games that Tom Brady could have attended first it just happens to be the one everyone remembers that gives the documentary producers a cool background story? And that was the moment a guy who almost became a draft reject decided he would become one of the greatest quarterbacks ever. Same as how Wiggins allegedly decided he wanted to be a TDF champion after watching Indurain win the TDF, that was the moment. He never said a word to anybody about it for 2 decades and didn't even take up the sport until he was in his mid 20's but when the British media needed a background story as to when Wiggins decided he wanted to win there it comes up. Same accross all sports, all these coincidences. I dont think any can be trusted.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

@Hitch: Soooooo, are you complaining about the 30/30 & ESPN journalism in general, or are you disputing or being skeptical of the facts in the Jerry Rice and/or Tomlinson segments?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I did not see the one on Bo. But I don't know anyone in their right mind who would say the 30 for 30 on Ben Wilson ("Benji") was fictional in any way. I remember when it actually happened, and how tragic it was. The episode was gut wrenching and captured that completely. The same goes for the episodes on Len Bias, and Ray Mancini as well.

 

[KingsMountain]

On a related note, a different documentary but I think still ESPN said Tom Brady's first ever football match he attended was the NFC championship game with the catch and that was when he decided to become a NFL Quarterback?

Really. Of all the 49er games that Tom Brady could have attended first it just happens to be the one everyone remembers that gives the documentary producers a cool background story? And that was the moment a guy who almost became a draft reject decided he would become one of the greatest quarterbacks ever.

You mean The Catch-- Montana to Clark? That happened when Tom Brady was 4 years old. Given that his parents were big Niner fans, he may well have attended that game, and that it was his first one. And of course it would hardly be a stretch for a 4 year old to just assume that he can become a great NFL quarterback.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Well, the independent investigation by Ted Wells on the workplace conduct within the Miami Dolphins organization (sp. Ritchie Incognito et. al. bullying of Jonathan Martin and others) has been publicly released.
144 page Report Link
Link to NFL.com story

Incognito has said recently that he felt the report would exonerate him, but that is not the case. Here is a summary of the findings from the report's introduction:
"After a thorough examination of the facts, we conclude that three starters on the Dolphins offensive line, Richie Incognito, John Jerry and Mike Pouncey, engaged in a pattern of harassment directed at not only Martin, but also another young Dolphins offensive lineman, whom we refer to as Player A for confidentiality reasons, and a member of the training staff, whom we refer to as the Assistant Trainer."

The conclusion from page 140 of the report states:
"As all must surely recognize, the NFL is not an ordinary workplace. Professional football is a rough, contact sport played by men of exceptional size, speed, strength and athleticism. But even the largest, strongest and fleetest person may be driven to despair by bullying, taunting and constant insults. We encourage the creation of new workplace conduct rules and guidelines that will help ensure that players respect each other as professionals and people."

Appendix B of the report shows that the NFL handbook clearly defines what constitutes harassment in the workplace:
"Harassment can include, but is not limited to: unwelcome contact; jokes, comments and antics; generalizations and put-downs; pornographic or suggestive literature and language. In addition, harassment and discrimination are not limited to the workplace: they example [sic], through calls, texts or emails, on a plane or team bus; at a team event; or at the team hotel. The policy encourages reporting discrimination or harassment to the NFLPA, a coach, HR or NFL Security."
Yet, the conclusion states the "creation of new workplace conduct rules and guidelines" are needed. All this suggests that current workplace codes of conduct are either not adequate, are not emphasized to team members, or are not enforced.

Who knows what this means for the Fins organization. OC Mike Sherman has already been fired by HC Philbin, probably stemming from two late season losses. Reports are that the HC is safe for now. I guess we will see but not very soon as it will take the Fins organization some time to digest the 144 page report before they can even comment on it, let alone take actions.


Anyone interested in a 2014 NFL draft game? Have we done this before? I was thinking of predicting the top 10 draft picks. Gamers get one point for a correct pick in the correct overall selection, plus a 3-point bonus for correctly picking a selection when a team must trade up or down to get that player. The winner would have bragging rights as the CN NFL draft guru. For comparison, if I was tabulating/scoring everyone's picks, I would throw in and score the picks of Mel Kiper, Todd McShay, and Mike Mayock (I'd love to see Kipe & McShay trounced ). Picks by gamers could be submitted to this thread starting after the NFL combine up to the day (or week) before the draft.