National Football League

[fatandfast]

The Giants have a good chance against the Jets because they're playing away from home. Their home form sucks!

you do know that they both call the same stadium home

 

[SirLes]

Yup! But it's still an away game and as a Giants fan I'm clinging to that.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

49ers looked impressive indeed. I think into the playoffs they are going to be tough to beat.

Bob Costas was saying that the Colts will draft Andrew Luck with the #1 pick, and just like Aaron Rogers sat for three years behind Brett Favre, Luck could do that behind an aging Manning. Costas is either dreaming or has rocks in his head. What a brain dead comment. There is NO WAY that Luck is going to sit on the bench while QBs such as Griffin, Jones, Barkley, and maybe even Keenum and others are likely to head straight to the NFL and expect to start from game 1, or at the very least take over sometime during the season. Rogers was taken way down in the draft, and regarded as being somewhat wild and raw. Luck is known to be the best QB prospect in a decade, maybe longer, and this is expected to be the best draft for QBs since 1983 (Elway, Marino, Kelly, etc.) He won't sit on the bench, not even for one full season. Even Jake Locker is playing some in Tennessee, and Locker isn't Luck and Hasselbeck isn't Manning. The only way Luck agrees to go to the Colts is if Manning announces his retirement, or flatly states 2012 will be his last year, and restructures his contract as such.

 

[Amsterhammer]

I have no idea because I'm not so well informed on these things, but the commentators during the Skins game were all 100% convinced that they would wind up with one of Luck, Barkley or RG3. I'd be happy with any of them!

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

They'll get one of those guys, or Landry Jones of Alabama. I wouldn't be surprised if the Colts actually trade Manning, if they can. He's a huge cap hit for anyone at this point. Or the Colts will trade Luck to someone like Arizona for a marquee player like Larry Fitzgerald, and Arizona's 1st pick, and with that pick take someone like Case Keenum, or Ryan Tannehill, who would sit a year behind Manning, or most of it.

Washington, Seattle, Jacksonville and Miami need QB's the most (presuming Manning doesn't retire), and one way or another I expect Luck, RG3, Barkley and Jones to end up there. In which order is anyone's guess. As I said a few pages ago, I can easily see five or six QB's going in the first round this coming year, adding Indy, Arizona and probably KC to the hunt. A few of these picks will start and perform right away, some will do well with time, and maybe one of them will be the next JP Losman, if not Heath Shuler. And someone taken in the 3rd-5th round will rise up and play well in few years and we'll wonder how we missed him.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Bob Costas was saying that the Colts will draft Andrew Luck with the #1 pick, and just like Aaron Rogers sat for three years behind Brett Favre, Luck could do that behind an aging Manning. Costas is either dreaming or has rocks in his head. What a brain dead comment. There is NO WAY that Luck is going to sit on the bench while QBs such as Griffin, Jones, Barkley, and maybe even Keenum and others are likely to head straight to the NFL and expect to start from game 1, or at the very least take over sometime during the season. Rogers was taken way down in the draft, and regarded as being somewhat wild and raw. Luck is known to be the best QB prospect in a decade, maybe longer, and this is expected to be the best draft for QBs since 1983 (Elway, Marino, Kelly, etc.) He won't sit on the bench, not even for one full season. Even Jake Locker is playing some in Tennessee, and Locker isn't Luck and Hasselbeck isn't Manning. The only way Luck agrees to go to the Colts is if Manning announces his retirement, or flatly states 2012 will be his last year, and restructures his contract as such.

I bolded up to the word "if" thinking there could be several options for Colts management... but do you think Luck would really pull an "Elway" or "Eli" stunt to get where he wants to go, or NOT go? I'm not being sarcastic with that question. I'm just curious.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

They'll get one of those guys, or Landry Jones of Alabama. I wouldn't be surprised if the Colts actually trade Manning, if they can. He's a huge cap hit for anyone at this point. Or the Colts will trade Luck to someone like Arizona for a marquee player like Larry Fitzgerald, and Arizona's 1st pick, and with that pick take someone like Case Keenum, or Ryan Tannehill, who would sit a year behind Manning, or most of it.

Now THAT'S are real possibility. I've been thinking the Colts best move might be to trade down to draft some other player and pick up extra player or picks as a result.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Top 10 all-time nfl power running backs

You can watch it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAfyXXufvd8
1. Jim Brown
2. John "the Diesel" Riggins
3. Earl "the Oiler Cannonball" Campbell
4. Larry "Zonk" Csonka
5. Jim Taylor
6. Jerome "the Bus" Bettis
7. Marion Motley
8. Bronislau "Bronko" Nagurski
9. Christian Okoye "the Nigerian Nightmare"
10. Mike "A-Train" Allstot

There are some other pretty good power backs not in this list. So who do you think deserves either to be on this list or would be an Honorable Mention?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Do you think Luck would really pull an "Elway" or "Eli" stunt to get where he wants to go, or NOT go?

Yes, I expect him to. I believe the day he is eligible to talk to teams, this will be a key part of the discussion. He will only play for a team that expects to build around him with a good coach, and if he is expected to start soon into the first season, if not from day one. Several teams will accommodate for this without a problem. Will Indy be one of them?

I think Washington, Seattle and Miami are going to consider making trades to the Colts to get Luck, pondering what they'll give up. IF Manning plays. Archie Manning has stated that Peyton says he won't play on the same team as Luck, it makes no sense to do so. He's right.

Power backs: I'm not old enough to remember Jim Brown, but he probably deserves that. In my lifetime it was Earl Campbell above the others.

The best runner I saw with the ball was Barry Sanders. No one ever like him. Would have gotten to 20,000 yards, but retired early.

The best player I ever saw overall was Walter Payton. Great runner with speed, moves, and power. Great receiver. Great blocker. Even threw for a couple TD's. And of course a great human being.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Thanks. Seattle may want to trade up, but I doubt they will be able to. They only have 4 draft picks this year I think, so do not have much to offer from this years picks.

Yeah, Brown was before my time. Same with Taylor, Motley and Bronko. But I agree Earl could have been higher on the list of all-time power RBs (maybe #2 ahead of Riggins). The reason I think Riggins got #2 was because the Skins won Super Bowl XVII where he was the MVP. Earl has no rings. But Riggs had a much longer NFL career ('71-'85) vs Earls ('78-'85). Both are in the Hall of Fame.

Sanders and Peyton were phenomenal backs. But they were not what I'd call power backs. Today, a guy like Brandon Jacobs is a power back. Maybe the Bucs Blount.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I forgot Seattle gave up a 2nd and 3rd round pick for Charlie Whitehurst, or something stupid like that. Thus it makes one wonder if they get the 12th pick in the draft, who they would give up, plus their pick, in order to move up to #1, or even #5? I doubt they would do the latter, and to me it's more likely they'll just take whichever of those QB's they like best that's available with that pick. They'll have at least 4 or so to pick from I would think.

Houston @ Indy tonight. Strange that there are several games on Saturday this week, and only one on Sunday. Doesn't seem right. Will give my other picks tomorrow.

 

[Angliru]

You can watch it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAfyXXufvd8
1. Jim Brown
2. John "the Diesel" Riggins
3. Earl "the Oiler Cannonball" Campbell
4. Larry "Zonk" Csonka
5. Jim Taylor
6. Jerome "the Bus" Bettis
7. Marion Motley
8. Bronislau "Bronko" Nagurski
9. Christian Okoye "the Nigerian Nightmare"
10. Mike "A-Train" Allstot

There are some other pretty good power backs not in this list. So who do you think deserves either to be on this list or would be an Honorable Mention?

The Cowboys had a tough full back that retired within the past several years but I can't remember his name.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

You must be talking about Daryl "Moose" Johnston, who played his entire NFL career with the Cowboys. He is noted, due to his contributions at the FB position, as being the first ever FB voted to the Pro Bowl. He was a pretty good FB.

Some other good FBs were Tom Rathman (SF), John L Williams (SEA), Mack Strong (SEA), Jim Kiick (MIA, who blocked for Zonk)... that's all that comes to mind ATM.

EDIT: Moose retired in 2000.

 

[Tank Engine]

You must be talking about Daryl "Moose" Johnston, who played his entire NFL career with the Cowboys. He is noted, due to his contributions at the FB position, as being the first ever FB voted to the Pro Bowl. He was a pretty good FB.

EDIT: Moose retired in 2000.

True, "Moose" was awesome as a full back blocking for Emmitt. He's not the best example of a "running" back, though. He sometimes got the call for short yardage (but Emmitt was pretty useful at that as well). Very useful receiver coming out of the backfield.

I guess Marion Barber ("the Barbarian") might fit the bill (not as well as Moose though), but he hasn't retired, just traded to the Bears. Can't think of any decent Cowboy in that position in the intervening period though.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

The Cowboys had a tough full back that retired within the past several years but I can't remember his name.

How about Hershall Walker? His career was never quite as dominant as people expected, but he was an incredible athlete, and powered his way through a lot of people in his few years on the Cowboys. Once he was traded to Minnesota who gave up the farm for him, that ended. His time in Philly was wasted. I recall him saying he hated running on that old astroturf in Veterans stadium, which players thought was like loose carpet over concrete. And pffft, his career was over, in football anyway.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Houston at Indianapolis

SAT, DEC 24
Oakland at Kansas City
Jacksonville at Tennessee
Miami at New England
Arizona at Cincinnati
Denver at Buffalo
St. Louis at Pittsburgh
NY Giants at NY Jets
Minnesota at Washington
Tampa Bay at Carolina
Cleveland at Baltimore
San Diego at Detroit
Philadelphia at Dallas
San Francisco at Seattle

SUN, DEC 25
Chicago at Green Bay

MON, DEC 26
Atlanta at New Orleans

I wonder how the Skins will handle being favorites to win? One observation - as far as I am aware, no country in western Europe would ever consider holding a major sporting event on Christmas Day! Odd, in view of the importance of religion in US life, that such a game can be played there.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

How about Hershall Walker? His career was never quite as dominant as people expected, but he was an incredible athlete, and powered his way through a lot of people in his few years on the Cowboys. Once he was traded to Minnesota who gave up the farm for him, that ended. His time in Philly was wasted. I recall him saying he hated running on that old astroturf in Veterans stadium, which players thought was like loose carpet over concrete. And pffft, his career was over, in football anyway.

Oh heck yes! He does not get the recognition as a football player that he deserves because of the 3 years spent in the USFL with the New Jersey Generals. He did make 2 Pro Bowls, but no Hall of Fame. He had 3 great years in his first stint with Dallas, and a few decent years afterwards, but did not amount to much after the blockbuster trade that sent him to the Vikes for 11 players (something like 5 players and 6 draft picks!!).

ESPN "30 for 30" just ran an excellent documentary on Herschel, including interviews with his mom and him. ESPN did a nice job of showing him on the field, but more importantly included an explanation of his youth and how he became the force he was. Apparently, he was picked on a lot as a kid and beat up once. He said that getting beat up would never happen again. So he started working out on his own doing sit-ups and pushups all night long after finishing homework. He would race railroad trains along the tracks, drag car tires containing 10 pound shots connected to his waist with a rope. Because of his harsh treatment by other kids growing up, he developed alter personalities to cope, something he carried with him to adulthood. That part was sad, but I have to admire what he accomplished.

Sorry I don't have the link to the ESPN 30 for 30 video. I looked but could not find it. It was something they aired this week. But I did find these, some footage of which was in the ESPN 30 for 30 segment.

Video Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ahIRO1HSL4
SEC Storied - Herschel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfI_6KaAw94&feature=related

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Houston at Indianapolis

SAT, DEC 24
Oakland at Kansas City
Jacksonville at Tennessee
Miami at New England
Arizona at Cincinnati
Denver at Buffalo
St. Louis at Pittsburgh
NY Giants at NY Jets
Minnesota at Washington
Tampa Bay at Carolina
Cleveland at Baltimore
San Diego at Detroit
Philadelphia at Dallas
San Francisco at Seattle

SUN, DEC 25
Chicago at Green Bay

MON, DEC 26
Atlanta at New Orleans

Ok. Let's discuss. I'm not sure about some of these games.
1. Is KC now a worldbeater? Meh, maybe not 'world' but could win vs the Raiders at home.
2* NYG at NYJ: I don't know. Giants are pretty banged up.
3. SD at DET: Can SD become consistently good? I think DET ftw.
4* PH at DAL: Jones throwing his own team under the bus with the "I'm scared" comments should motivate Dallas players almost as much as if Eagles players trash talked several days before the game. I think you are right, DAL ftw.
5. SF at SEA: I'll say SEA ftw just cuz.

* means NFC East standings at stake for NYG, PHIL & DAL.

 

[Anonymous]

Hmmmmm... Barkley staying for his Senior year at USC.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

OK. How bout that Barkley. I think for him it is a smart move. It's always a bit of a gamble regarding potential for injury in his senior season and the possibility of that negatively affecting his draft stock, and he understands that. But with this year's QB draft crop he should be higher on the draft boards after next season (with GB3, Luck, Jones, Keenum all gone... I'd put Bark @ around 3 or 4 in that list), which could net him millions extra. But he sounds more interested in unfinished business with football at SC than he is the instant money. He could even end up being a Heisman candidate next year.

see it here: http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/story/_/id/7380760/matt-barkley-usc-trojans-says-staying-school

edit:
Fee-fi-fo-fum,
someone awoke in Indy's stadium
(sort of anyway)

 

[Tank Engine]

How about Hershall Walker? His career was never quite as dominant as people expected, but he was an incredible athlete, and powered his way through a lot of people in his few years on the Cowboys. Once he was traded to Minnesota who gave up the farm for him, that ended. His time in Philly was wasted. I recall him saying he hated running on that old astroturf in Veterans stadium, which players thought was like loose carpet over concrete. And pffft, his career was over, in football anyway.

We're definitely going back more than several years here though. Herschel was a great all round back and had a few pretty good years in Dallas (all pro, but not Hall of Fame stuff). The Cowboys moved him all over the backfield (wing back etc.). Dorsett was still there when Herschel arrived, although his best days were behind him. Herschel was supposed to be the new franchise back. It happened, but not in the way originally intended. The best draft choice the Cowboys ever made.

To Amsterhammer: Hope you're right with your predictions.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Merry Christmas to all, may the Pack win it all

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Some good games today. Some teams looked terrible. Dallas, both NY teams, Denver. The 49ers-Seahawks game was very tough. Looked like a Ravens-Steelers game. Seattle surprisingly good, and high hopes for next year. Carolina also looked good and should feel good about next year. Pats keep winning. Bengals and Lions had good wins.

Some playoff thoughts.

The AFC is pretty much set except the last wild card team. The Patriots play the Bills next week and if they win they have HFA. Despite this, I see them losing, maybe the first game. They give up way too many yards and points. I can definitely see Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Houston or Baltimore going into Foxboro and beating them. Probably not Denver or Oakland.

It's just a matter of who wins the West. Denver or Oakland. Denver has to beat KC (and a highly motivated Kyle Orton) next week to win their division, or have Oakland lose at home to the Chargers. Either way, they'll likely host the Steelers.

Cincy has to beat Baltimore, who is going to try to win to get the 2nd seed and bye. If Baltimore wins, and the Raiders, Broncos or Titans win, they are in. This team should play at Houston in the other game. I still am not sure if either Mario Williams or Matt Schaub will be back by then. Texans won't say. I still like the Texans at home.

This would mean we'll likely see a third Ravens-Steelers match-up, in Baltimore. The Ravens already beat them twice. And with the Ravens getting healthy, and the Steelers hurting, I don't see how Pittsburgh could beat them.

Baltimore-Houston for the AFC championship anyone?

In the NFC, the Packers are going to get HFA one way or the other. If they win tomorrow, they'll rest everyone in the last game against Detroit.

SF should get the other bye, if they can beat St. Louis.

The Saints will get the other seed, and either NYGiants or Dallas, both of whom looked terrible the last few weeks. Assuming the Giants, we'll have the Falcons and Lions as wildcards, who will them play the Saints (again) in the 1st round, and the Giants will host the Lions. The logical winners there are the Saints and Lions. I would love to see a Saints-49ers match-up in San Francisco. That would be a game of the year. The Lions-Giants winner gets to go to Lambeau and face a rested Packers team.

Packers host either the Saints or 49ers for the NFC championship, and probably the game of the year. I think either team could beat the Packers. But will they?

Got all that? There will be a quiz on Tuesday!

 

[Anonymous]

If we get one defensive lineman and a DB, you'd better watch out for the Panthers next year. Our offense is going to be something to watch next year.

As for the rest of the NFL, who cares?

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Afc playoff teams

Some playoff thoughts.

The AFC is pretty much set except the last wild card team.

Baltimore-Houston for the AFC championship anyone?

Got all that? There will be a quiz on Tuesday!

I feel like my lips just got ripped off by drinking from a fire hydrant.

I can see Baltimore-Houston for the title.

Since you started with the AFC, here's my thoughts on that cloudy picture:
(teams in black and bold are in the playoffs, red and bold have a shot, red are sitting on the outside)

AFC WEST (battle for division title, no wild cards here):
Broncos (8-7) remaining game: vs. CHIEFS (6-9)
Raiders (8-7) remaining game: vs. CHARGERS (7-8)

I don't think a highly motivated Orton will matter. So...

AFC WEST (projected final standings):
1. Broncos (9-7) – wins final game and division based on best win % in common games
2. Raiders (9-7) – wins final game and tie breakers between Titans and Jets

AFC EAST (projected final standings):
Pats (13-3) – already clinched division, wins final vs. BILLS (6-9)
Jets (9-7) – wins final @DOLPHINS (5-10), loses tie breaker to Raiders for playoff spot

AFC SOUTH (projected final standings):
Texans (11-5) – already clinched division, wins final vs. TITANS
Titans (8-8) – loses final @TEXANS

AFC NORTH (projected final standings):
Ravens (12-4) – wins final @BENGALS, wins division based on head-to-head win %
Steelers (12-4) – already clinched playoff spot, wins final @BROWNS
Bengals (9-7) – loses final vs. RAVENS

Here's the deal for the final wild card spot. Even if the Titans win, they don't have the tie breaker to beat out the Raiders, who I think beat SD. So I see the Titans as done. The Raiders are also one-up on the Jets in tie-breakers. So then, assuming the Bengals lose to the Ravens, the question becomes how does Cincy stack up against the Raiders for the final wild card spot? Right now, Cincy and Oakland are 6-5 in conference, and Oakland has the better divisional record and strength of schedule percentage. But if the final games involving these two teams (Cincy vs Raves, Oak vs SD) go as I predict, then the conference record will be Oakland 7-5 and Cincy 6-6. Oakland should get the final wild card spot. Would that be correct anyone?