National Football League

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FoxxyBrown1111 said:
You´ve got a good QB now...and you have a weak division...
If you ask me, Oakland has three mediocre QB's in Campbell, Boller and Edwards. None are going to lead them deep into the playoffs.

On paper San Diego is the best team in the NFL. Excellent QB, great young running back, fierce defense. But you'll notice that no one is picking them to win the Superbowl or even get there. Me included.

leftover pie said:
Warren moon and the run & shoot offence. now there was a team that promised a lot and delivered very little.
Ahh yes, Warren Moon, the man who threw for 49,000 yards, and 45,000 of them were between the 10 yard lines, or during garbage time. I don't think he ever won a playoff game in his entire career.

To his credit he was undrafted, and NFL teams only wanted to convert him to another position. He was basically a victim of racism, as during that time there was still the long held bigoted belief that black men weren't smart enough to play the quarterback position. Doug Williams and Vince Evans were drafted I believe the year before, and before that I think only Marlin Briscoe had started games at QB.

on3m@n@rmy said:
Seattle has repeated making draft blunders too many times. The latest confirmed bust... 2005 first rounder C Chris Spencer, now with the Bears as a backup.
Seattle's downfall was paying an insane amount of money to Shaun Alexander when his career was about to head to the downside, while letting Steve Hutchinson go to Minnesota thinking that Floyd "Pork Chop" Womack (another draft bust) could replace him.
 
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Alpe d'Huez said:
If you ask me, Oakland has three mediocre QB's in Campbell, Boller and Edwards. None are going to lead them deep into the playoffs.

On paper San Diego is the best team in the NFL. Excellent QB, great young running back, fierce defense. But you'll notice that no one is picking them to win the Superbowl or even get there. Me included.
Campell is good. It´s not been his mistake to work under Snyder. There you´ve got the old problem: It´s difficult to extract individual performance from team performance. He had 10 mediocre players around him, so nothing good he could do in Washington....
No, me too i don´t think Oakland will go deep in the playoffs, but thanks to that weak division they will reach them.
True, on paper the Chargers are the best NFL-Team. Since 2006. But as long as Norv the Smurf is HC, San Diego is doomed. What a sad story. The Chargers should have won at least 2 Superbowls in the last few years.

Alpe d'Huez said:
Ahh yes, Warren Moon, the man who threw for 49,000 yards, and 45,000 of them were between the 10 yard lines, or during garbage time. I don't think he ever won a playoff game in his entire career.
No no, the Moon was always rising. 3 Playoff wins in the NFL and 2 CFL-Championships. 71.000 (!!!) professional Passing-Yards and 435(!!!) TDP. So your critic of him is a little harsh. He´s a true Legend. And that brutal collapse vs. Buffalo wasn´t his mistake, but the prevent Defense of Houston. Reminds me of an Ex-NFL-Player: "The only thing that this kind of defense is preventing is winning (LOL)."
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
On paper San Diego is the best team in the NFL. Excellent QB, great young running back, fierce defense. But you'll notice that no one is picking them to win the Superbowl or even get there. Me included.
Well, San Diego didn't help their cause when Seattle beat them last year in Seattle. Sure, it was an away game for SD, but still people expect more from a team that could win the SB. To be fair to SD, the feeling in the air at the game was suspenseful... you couldn't count SD out until it was really over. Final SEA 27 - SD 20.

Alpe d'Huez said:
Seattle's downfall was paying an insane amount of money to Shaun Alexander when his career was about to head to the downside, while letting Steve Hutchinson go to Minnesota thinking that Floyd "Pork Chop" Womack (another draft bust) could replace him.
Correct on Shaun, who headed into a huge career tailspin as he could not hook up with any team after Seattle let him go.

Losing Hutch was a severe blow. But Seattle got caught with their pants down over a loophole in the free agent contract rules. It wasn't the amount of money in the contract that was the sticking point, it was the amount of guaranteed money. He was a restricted free agent, which meant Seattle could have matched the Vikes offer, but would have been required (by FA rules) to guarantee the ENTIRE $49-million contract offer the Vikes gave him, even though the Vikes did not guarantee anywhere near that much money. Still, that's no excuse for Seattle... they should have been more aware of the loopholes and acted sooner to prevent it (e.g. by giving Hutch a contract extension the previous year, which he said he would have been willing to agree to if the money was fair).
 
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Amsterhammer said:
Just curious - how do you all feel about Michael Vick (whether he plays well or not)?
I understand that he served his time and can now earn a living. I still don't have to like him. His actions and the fact that the only reason he stopped funding the ring was he got caught. He had an opportunity to admit his role, basically tell the truth to the commissioner and he didn't. That tells me more about his character then words he is sentenced to speak as part of his release from jail. He continued to have poor choices when he asked the judge to relax the conditions so he could own a dog "for his kids" amazed me, told me he still doesn't think rules apply to him. I will always root against him and hope he fails. He absolutely has the right to play and I hope he plays poorly.

Alpe d'Huez said:
But of course team chemistry and coaching have a lot to do with how well a QB lasts and adapts. Take a look at Alex Smith. Taken #1 by SF, huge talent. Huge. But after five years and about 4 head coaches, 5 OC's, and 6 different offensive schemes - all of which were failures - plus an undiagnosed broken bone on his throwing shoulder for a year, it's amazing that the guys confidence wasn't completely shattered. I still think on a solid team with a solid program, the guy could be a Pro Bowl QB...maybe.
If he can't win or at least show more promise with his new coach, a quarterback groomer, I want him gone. I understand the amazing list of cons you list, but he has had a recent running game those years, good tight ends, poor to decent wideouts. some have done better with less.

A con you didn't list was the defense, which has been spotty. Seemingly biopolar..one game they were great, one game no matter what the offense did, the defense let the offense down. Seemingly the games the defense did well, Alex played poorly. When he was good, the defense was not so good.

The first preseason game he didn't look good with the Saints rush...not at all, but preseason doesn't mean anything to this team, they were perfect last year, won all their games.

Amsterhammer said:
Glad to be rid of him again.

As if being a Hammer isn't bad enough, for my sins I'm also a Redskins fan.:mad: My 'other' team is the Ravens, purely because my girlfriend lives near Balmer. Of course, like everyone else, I hate the Cowboys.:D

And the Eagles, and the Pats.....:p

Sadly, neither of my teams will come anywhere near a sniff of the SB.
My niners won't get there either, so I will have to root for team I hate least.

Waterloo Sunrise said:
Shame for the haters that the Eagles will win. Years of cautious planning come home to roost and they're the only ones with any money to spend this free agency.

Add in a new scheme on both lines which appears to be working well already, and a damn weak schedule, they can spend the year preping for playoffs.
Be careful the preseason records can be deceiving. My 49ers were perfect last year in the preseason to only stumble during the regular season. I think the Eagles have more talent, but over confidence can be dangerous.

Yes I root against the Eagles, but not for signing the free agents. I root against them only because of my hatred for Vick. I love the coach, he has ties to Mike Holmgren great 49er position coach and coordinator under my favorite of all time, Bill Walsh. In my head those 7 degrees of Bill Walsh make Andy a favorite of mine.
 
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fatandfast said:
Go Chargers and go Jets!! for puttin" LT on your team
Yeah buddy! SD is probably the most entertaining team to watch but if you are a fan (sheepishly raising my hand) then last year was just brutal. It seemed everytime the special teams could blow it, they would. Really painful to watch.

But that won't happen this year (I hope).
 
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Anyone else hate the new kickoff rule?

Kicking from the 35 already produced twice as many touchbacks in the first week of the preseason. That means a lot less awesome kick returns from Hester, Washington, and the like.

I understand that the NFL wants less violent collisions on kickoffs, but they're going to completely eliminate a big part of the game.
 
Jul 14, 2009
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FoxxyBrown1111 said:
Al Davis best times are behind him, but i also think the worst since Russell is gone (BTW, where is he now? In Canada or Arena or just living off his monster bonus like Leaf?).
Last year was a big improvement, things seem to settle down after all the chaos... You´ve got a good QB now, Al Davis isn´t Ford or Snyder (which is good), and you have a weak division: KC lacks a passing game, SD´s talent is wasted by the worst Coach in all sports since forever, Denver is re-building. I smell playoffs for the Raiders. Honestly.
Al Davis? He has been dead for years man!!He will probably try and move the team to Barclay's new place in Brooklyn. The black and silver would be big on Flatbush.
 
jobiwan said:
Anyone else hate the new kickoff rule?

Kicking from the 35 already produced twice as many touchbacks in the first week of the preseason. That means a lot less awesome kick returns from Hester, Washington, and the like.

I understand that the NFL wants less violent collisions on kickoffs, but they're going to completely eliminate a big part of the game.
I hate the new rule and think it's stupid because it has not been well thought out.

On hating it... I agree it diminishes the importance of the kick return game and the importance of having a good kick returner on the team.

On not being well thought out... how does a player get into football shape? By hitting, both taking them and giving them out. I will not be surprised if we see the same number of injuries or possibly more serious injuries simply because the kick return teams will be getting far less hits in per game. So when they ARE involved in a collision they will not be as physically used to it.

If they really want to reduce serious injuries, they might as well just eliminate kickoffs alltogether... just spot the ball on the 20 yard line at the start of each half and after TDs and FGs.
 
I would have preferred that they kept it at the 30 yard line, though I understand wanting to avoid injuries. There's got to be a better way.

Anyone have the free NFL app? I picked it up for my iPad and this thing is great. Standings, games, scores, stats, and highlights. And it looks terrific. Oh, did I mention it's free (and not filled with ads)?
 
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Players can´t get used to being hit (especially when blindsided and/or speared), no matter how much they are in football shape. The same as cyclists can´t get used to accidents or Soldiers couldn´t get hardened in Nevada nuclear blasts.

The real problem are the youth coaches who teach wrong techniques (leading with the head) and wrong behaviours (let me describe it as "macho talk"). Those guys should get the critic, and not those who try to reduce devastating injuries.

Football always had rule changes. And actually that´s great. Just look at soccer where the rules are (mostly) 100+ years old, that´s the main reason their games are dull.

So when everybody gets used to the new rules, all will have settled down. Harrison will have shut up (or hopefully soon retired; nobody needs that neandertaler), and no it´s not flag football then. This game will always be cruel. But there´s no need that more Stingleys and Utleys end up in a wheelchair (and real sad; thousands of young high schoolers and college players), b/c it´s only a game!

Even if KO-Returns are cut in half, we´ll still see great returns. Even if cheap hits (hopefully) will be penalized, the game will be still hard hitting and full of action.
 
The Lions will be a fun team to watch this year. If Stafford stays healthy, along with Megatron and Javid Best they can put some points up.
Suh will strike fear into anyone he plays against. He is a man amongst boys. He will be able to change the game like nobody since LT.
Sorry Foxxy, but your cute little QB may wet his pants.:)
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
I would have preferred that they kept it at the 30 yard line, though I understand wanting to avoid injuries. There's got to be a better way.

Anyone have the free NFL app? I picked it up for my iPad and this thing is great. Standings, games, scores, stats, and highlights. And it looks terrific. Oh, did I mention it's free (and not filled with ads)?
Does it also come with a free iPad? :D
Darn!
 
veganrob said:
The Lions will be a fun team to watch this year. If Stafford stays healthy, along with Megatron and Javid Best they can put some points up.
Suh will strike fear into anyone he plays against. He is a man amongst boys. He will be able to change the game like nobody since LT.
Sorry Foxxy, but your cute little QB may wet his pants.:)
Maybe we'll have a good Thanksgiving Day game between them and Dallas this year huh?

Hey, any word on Nick Fairley who was drafted by Detroit? Really would be interesting seeing him play alongside Suh!!!! BAM!
 
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on3m@n@rmy said:
Maybe we'll have a good Thanksgiving Day game between them and Dallas this year huh?

Hey, any word on Nick Fairley who was drafted by Detroit? Really would be interesting seeing him play alongside Suh!!!! BAM!
Fairley's injured I believe, but if he gets healthy Cutler might as well not take the field!!

I still enjoy the Thanksgiving games, just something special about them.
Although, the new Thanksgiving night game on the NFL Network has been a better game, recently.
 
FoxxyBrown1111 said:
Football always had rule changes. And actually that´s great. Just look at soccer where the rules are (mostly) 100+ years old, that´s the main reason their games are dull.
Baseball has been inflicted with the same problem, though not quite as bad as soccer.

I agree with you on hits though. The days of tackling guys around the ankles simply to get them to the ground has often been replaced by the mental interest in smashing into them instead. Yet, if you watch someone like Ray Lewis, he will routinely make proper tackles when it's appropriate, while still hitting hard when need be on the right plays. Too many players coming up are only into hitting, and that needs to change, and I think it will over time.

on3m@n@rmy said:
Maybe we'll have a good Thanksgiving Day game between them and Dallas this year huh?

Hey, any word on Nick Fairley who was drafted by Detroit? Really would be interesting seeing him play alongside Suh!!!! BAM!
Thought I posted about him. Fairley is out for a few weeks. It's iffy whether he's going to make the first game of the season, though he says he's fine. As I said about Detroit, if Stafford can stay healthy that's half the battle. But the Lions other issue is mental. If they start to get into a slide they could lose games before the kickoff. But there's no other reason they shouldn't finish about 9-7, even in that tough division. Just looking at some of their defensive players they could really put the hurt on some people. Suh could be the next Mean Joe Green.
 
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Amsterhammer said:
Just curious - how do you all feel about Michael Vick (whether he plays well or not)?
did the time, seems like he genuinely regrets it, glad he's back.

maybe i'm a horrible person but i think the multiple (alleged) sexual assaults and (accusations of) violent offences that seem to come out of the league every year are much more serious than dog fighting. (i'm certainly not saying i approve of dog fighting. it's horrible)
 
Interview with Vick comes out in something like GQ next month. He's basically saying his background and culture is what lead him to dog fighting. Personally I think he is better off just not saying anything. Not trying to explain anything. Zip. It makes him look like he's reaching for an excuse, a justification even, and there are plenty of people out there who think he's not really that reformed or sincere and think he's just putting on an act. So it would make more sense I'd think to just say that part of his life is over and regreful and he's trying to move forward, and end any discussion about the dog fighting there, period.

Meanwhile, he looked like the old Vick yesterday against the Steelers. Granted, it's pre-season and the Steelers looked like crap last week against the Redskins, but this did not look good for Eagles fans. The Steelers 1st team looked like the team that nearly won the Superbowl, and could get there again.

Also, the Patriots first teams looked unstoppable. Granted, again it's preseason, but every pass from Brady was nearly perfect, Ochocinco looked like he wasn't there to showboat but to win, and I have to think the defense this year is looking to prove a point, especially Haynsworth after that debacle in Washington. He and Wilfork could present an impenetrable wall for other teams, IF they can make it work.

I get tired of the Steelers and Patriots winning every year and their past help from refs and the league, but both looked like they are headed to the AFC championship again.
 
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For as much i "hate" Beli-Cheat, i must admit he´s a genius and the complete opposite of timid "Norv the Smurf" in play calling.
After all, every QB except Davey looks good in his offense. The same can only be said about Walsh´s and Martz´QB´s (until this season).
Vick had an off day, GB is already clicking and the Bears OL is worse than last year (9 sacks in 27 pass plays !! last week). Omg, the season is over for Da Bears before it started. Martz can´t do anything if his Passers aren´t protected. Good night, and good luck...
 
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the patriots have been really superb in draft and trades (well illustrated by the randy moss trades)

being bad in the draft and overpaying for trades and free agents is what enables teams to be awful for a decade (and the rest in some cases).
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
Interview with Vick comes out in something like GQ next month. He's basically saying his background and culture is what lead him to dog fighting. Personally I think he is better off just not saying anything. Not trying to explain anything. Zip. It makes him look like he's reaching for an excuse, a justification even, and there are plenty of people out there who think he's not really that reformed or sincere and think he's just putting on an act. So it would make more sense I'd think to just say that part of his life is over and regreful and he's trying to move forward, and end any discussion about the dog fighting there, period.
There are 3 kinds of ppl regarding how they react to criticism, 2 that apply here: 1) the person who takes ownership of things they need to work on, and 2) those who point the finger or blame other ppl or situations for their predicament. In the second case, those types are not motivated to make change. I don't see him in that category. He appears to have made change, but it would have been clearer who he has managed to get out of his past mess if he'd said something about how he's had to work on his problems or is still working on them.
 
As much as I don't care for "Baby-chick", I respect his coaching and game planning abilities. As for their OL... if they thought picking up ex-Seattle center Chris Spencer was an upgrade, they were mistaken and that will cost them.

The Pats do make great personnel moves. Albert Haynesworth for a number 5 pick in the draft is another great chance for anyone to take.
 
As to Bellycheck, I actually lost some respect for his coaching last year. The Pats finished 14-2 and in the stretch had beaten the Chargers, Vikings, Steelers, Bears, Ravens, Colts and Packers, and blew out the Jets 45-3 in week 13. And yet, when they got into the playoff game against the Jets a few weeks later they played as flat as could be. His team had no fire, and no sense of urgency when they were losing the game. They laid down like dogs, and on a team like that, at that point it's the coach's fault.

lancaster said:
Being bad in the draft and overpaying for trades and free agents is what enables teams to be awful for a decade (and the rest in some cases).
I immediately think of Washington, Oakland, Cincinnati, San Francisco (talk about a 180. When owned by Eddie Debartolo they were the best managed team in the NFL in player personnel, coaching, everything). These teams seemed to have made one terrible signing, release, contract, or coaching change after another for years on end now.
 
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I wouldn´t say that´s bad coaching by Beli-Cheat. I´d say the luck just evened out over the past few years. After being handed the SB vs. SL in 2001 (and the PO-Game vs. OAK trou the "Tuck-Rule"), they begun an incredible streak of lucky wins. It seemed they edged out every game by 3-7 points. That time it was all good coaching, "clutch" kicking and marvellous QB-Play. Which isn´t true. Now the PO-Losses since the NYG-SB are blamed on.... Beli-Cheat and Brady. To understand more of what i mean, i strongly recommend the site of Brian Burke again (http://www.advancednflstats.com/). There it´s lenghtly explained & proven that luck plays a big part in the outcome of NFL-Games, and that such a thing like "clutch-performance" by certain players also even out over the long run. No player in the NFL performs better than the other high trained athletes in pressure situations (given the same talent level). It´s true that some few crack under pressure, but the majority performs on the same high level in the 1st minute of a game as in the "clutch" seconds, but no one stands above them all...
 

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