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That BCS game was a total turd. This college bowl season has been one of the worst in history it seems, with 23rd ranked teams beating much higher ranked teams. Wipeouts like Bama-ND. Don't get me wrong. I like it when underdogs do well. But this season has emphsized the weakness of the poll system, and the need for a playoff system. The absolute best thing about this bowl season... the fact that 6-6 teams get to practice and play one more month, giving them valued practice time to make them better next season, recuit better, and maybe be more competitive next season vs the bigs.

Irvin and Scruggs are capable. Maybe throw in a little OLB action with Malcolm Smith or Mike Morgan, both who played their college careers at USC (huh, how'd that happen?), and are decent. Maybe some blitz packages. But there is NO replacing Chris Clemons, which goes without saying. It is definately going to take 2 or 3 guys to fill Clemons shoes.

In this weeks divsional games:
- most likely to lose in the NFC = Baltimore (@ Denver)
- most likely to lose in the AFC = Houston (@ New England)
 
Jun 15, 2009
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So, the Pistol offense is dead before it really got started!? Same like the "razzle dazzle" experiment some 10 yrs ago in CHI, or the "run and shoot", "wildcat", "fun and gun" or whatever that works in college, but not against fast, mean and violent defensive NFL players?

Seems like SEA came up with the blueprint D: Kill the QB, he´s an easy target since he is mostly exposed in that kind of offense...

Anyway, i expect a major decline in RG3´s efficiency stats nxt season (if he ever comes back), since he will throw more out of normal formations (unless of course Shanahan is real crazy and will sacrifice his QB again for short term success). And there, as seen in his poor 3rd down conversations, he doesn´t really shine. Either he learns sooner than Cunningham or Vick to become a true pocket passer, or he will be done early. :eek:

My picks:
HOU over NE (27-23); People getting arrogant in Boston again. I guess HOU is very angry and highly motivated.... The same as always: Team Hollywood loses a big game as heavy favourite. This time it´s not about Gisele or a bad knee, but a very stupid writer... :mad:
BAL over DEN (24-20); Manning will suffer... hey it´s the playoffs :D
SF over GB (24-17); All go... Moss going to the SB
SEA over ATL (27-17); No doubt i have here...

Edit: I am serious. Have put some real money on my picks...

on3m@n@rmy said:
In this weeks divsional games:
- most likely to lose in the NFC = Baltimore (@ Denver)
- most likely to lose in the AFC = Houston (@ New England)
Did i miss some inside joke here, or did you just drink the same lager as me? ;)
 
Considering that he tore his MCL, he's going to be out the entire off season, and maybe into next season. When RGIII comes back, look for him to actually play similar to Kirk Cousins where he's mostly a pocket passer, but also rolls out a fair amount. He may be very fast, but he's not that big. Ben Roethlisberger is built like a tank and look at how banged up his career has been. RGIII will also learn how to run out of bounds, and slide a lot. The kid's not stupid.

I think you're telling the truth Foxxy on your picks. May not agree, but I see your point of view.

I don't think the Pistol is dead in the NFL. Well, I guess it's how you define it. The read option from the pistol formation allowing the QB to run may be used less, especially in Washington, but having the QB line up in a short shotgun, with one RB deep, and another in a short slot who can either run or receiver, is still very viable. We may see SF run some of this on Sunday, it's the exact offense Kaepernick ran in college at Nevada, while still passing a good deal.

I already wrote about the Sea-Atl game, so here's next:

I think both Houston at New England and Baltimore at Denver have similar set-ups. The underdog in both games can go a long way by keeping the score close after 1Q. If they start the game and can't move the ball, and allow Brady/Manning to march down the field and quickly score, it will be long days and we'll see repeats of NE's 42-14 drubbing of Houston in week 14, and Denver's easy 34-17 win over the Ravens in week 15. But if the visiting teams can keep it close early and get some momentum, they can win. We've seen NE get complacent and overconfident in recent years, and PM is inconsistent in the playoffs and Baltimore streaky. The logical pick is that NE and Denver will both easily win, but I won't be too shocked if one (or both?) lose.

Green Bay at San Francisco is intriguing. The Packers defense was decent last week, but Joe Webb was not ready, and the Vikings looked done. GB's offense was also rather anemic. Also, they give up a lot of sacks, and with both Smith's playing for SF, that bodes poorly for the Packers. But Aaron Rodgers is very dangerous, the Packers have a lot of experience, and are about as healthy as they have been all year. I wouldn't count them out. I just think the 49er defense is too good, they're pretty healthy (if Smith really is good to go) and the offense will be ready to roll. The one player they are missing is Manningham, but since Kaep took over, he was getting less throws and Moss more anyway. I may change my mind after this week, but still like SF's chances to win the SB. Though the game I really want to see is SF and Seattle go at it again. :)

on3m@n@rmy said:
In this weeks divsional games:
- most likely to lose in the NFC = Baltimore (@ Denver)
- most likely to lose in the AFC = Houston (@ New England)
Uh, both those games are in the AFC. :)
 
on3m@n@rmy said:
In this weeks divsional games:
- most likely to lose in the NFC = Baltimore (@ Denver)
- most likely to lose in the AFC = Houston (@ New England)
I will bet you $100,000 that Baltimore does not lose to Denver in the NFC. Please PM me immediately. I am serious.

i expect a major decline in RG3´s efficiency stats nxt season (if he ever comes back)
Indeed. Can’t believe some people in this forum are buying the analysts’ BS that it was the right move to keep a guy who was noticeably limping at the end of the 1st quarter in the game. How can anyone seriously say, “awful to see that happen”, and then in the next breath, “right move to keep him in.” You don’t see the obvious contradiction? Not only was he clearly less effective (4/10 for 16 yards after the 1st quarter; and one reason why Morris’ production went down after that was because when teams don’t fear RG3’s running, they can key on the RB), but more to the point, his reduced mobility made him less able to avoid the major hits that cause major injuries. He was being set up for what eventually happened.

But since these analysts still don’t get it after four thousand lawsuits (and counting), I wouldn’t expect another injury to make any difference to them. And yes, of course former NFL players are going to say, let the guy stay in. In the Clinic, several people have noted an old poll that showed many Olympic athletes would take a drug that killed them in five years if it helped them win a gold medal. It’s basically the same mentality in the NFL. If RG3 had managed to lead the Skins to a SB victory on a gimpy leg, then suffered a career-ending injury late in the 4th quarter, a lot of people who might not admit it out loud would think it was worth it.

Very gutsy picks, Foxxy. I think Houston will make the game far more competitive than their meeting a few weeks ago—and yeah, that writer is the most (in)famous man in Houston now--but still expect NE to win. OTOH, I think the Baltimore-Denver game will turn out pretty much the way it did a few weeks ago. Manning is 2-0 vs. the Ravens in the postseason, he knows that defense pretty well.

The NFC games seem to me far harder to pick. How healthy is Justin Smith? No one knows. He started practice Friday, but he didn't put much pressure on his arm, and even he said he probably wouldn't know how good it is until he actually plays in the game. All I'll say is if he turns out to be capable of playing anywhere near 100%, the Niners should win and suddenly be SB favorites. And even if he isn't, at least GB doesn't have a strong running game. He really shines at stopping the run, though he's also key to the other Smith getting to A-Rod.

I'm sticking with Atlanta, though if someone asks me to justify that decision, I really can't. Atlanta has a better pocket passer and better WRs, but that's about all. Michael Turner used to be one of the better RBs in the NFL, but hasn't done much recently, and has been AWOL in their recent playoff losses. And the Seahawks defense is obviously scary. But the Seahawks aren't the same team on the road they are at home. I'm not convinced the Wash. game proved otherwise. If RG3 had been 100% the whole game, would Seattle have won? Not at all clear. Maintain that two TD early advantage into the second half, and suddenly the Hawks have to change their game plan a little, Wilson has to do more passing than he was asked to do this year.

I wish Oregon had played Bama, too, but I still think Bama would have won, say 50-30. We can get some rough idea from the fact that in the beginning of last year, the Ducks lost to LSU 41-27. That LSU team beat Bama later that year, but didn’t fare all that much better than ND in the championship game. And if you think Bama’s rout of ND says the worst possible thing about the current system, you’re wrong, it’s the second worst thing. The worst thing: if Oregon and/or KSU had not suffered upset losses near the end of the season, Bama wouldn’t even have played in the championship game. Think about that: ND would have been in (or maybe OR vs. KSU; that game didn't turn out very well-matched, either), but not Bama.

How much will a playoff system help? If it had been in place this year, I think Oregon might still have missed out, to teams like Florida, which stunk up the Sugar Bowl, Stanford, which had a good season and upset OR but struggled to beat 8-5 Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl, and of course ND. Any playoff system still depends on a reasonable ranking of teams. That the system had ND no. 1 says there are big problems with that system. You can expand the number of teams, but then you get a situation like in the NFL, where teams like the Giants play mediocre in the regular season, barely qualify for the postseason, then get hot or lucky at the right time. We discussed this last year.
 
I think a big question now being asked with RGIII is why was he in the game in the first place, and why did the team let him dictate, at least to a certain degree, his staying in the game? He said they'd have to drag him out to keep him from playing, but that's not how coaches and doctor's work. And since they (apparently) knew he was on a gimpy knee, why weren't they more prepared to put Cousins in, who actually played well earlier in the year in relief? Why didn't they prep him more during the week? The Skins also only had two QB's on roster, Grossman wasn't even suited up. What were they thinking?

One thing's for sure, RGIII, as Foxxy says, isn't going to play the same way when he returns (whenever that is). The good news is that, as I alluded to, if he becomes more of a pocket passer who rolls out, or works within a moving pocket, he has the arm to throw anywhere in the field. And I think he has the smarts to adapt to that. But we may not see this QB until 2014 (gulp). One thing is for sure, there is no possible way Washington is going to give up Cousins in the off-season.

As to the NCAA, I still see a day where we have four, 16-team super conferences, and those four conference winners end up in a tournament, with four more wildcards being invited using some sort of BCS math. No, this won't solve everything, but in such an 8-team tournament, it's very likely teams (from this year) such as Alabama, Oregon, Florida, Kansas State, Notre Dame, Stanford would have gotten in. Leaving LSU, Georgia, Texas A&M, South Carolina and Oklahoma to fight for the last two spots. It's unlikely the team left out (toss in Louisville) would be able to lay much claim to being superior to the team that won such a tournament. Though yes, you could see a top team getting a poor match-up and losing, while an 8th seeded team getting hot and beating the #4 seed in the final. So be it. Might as well tell yourself the Saints should have won the SB last year while you're at it. Any way you slice it, it's better than what we have.

Furthermore, the prestige of a bowl game is also wearing away. With major (BCS) bowl games not having the same cachet because of the championship game, the Rose, Sugar, Orange bowls aren't what they were 20 years ago. Not even close. Plus with the rest of the bowls having names like the Chick-Fil-A Bowl, Buffalo Wild Wings Bowl, Franklin American Mortgage Music City Bowl being so absurdly whorred out in sponsorship, the games are less meaningful than conference championships.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Merckx index said:
I will bet you $100,000 that Baltimore does not lose to Denver in the NFC. Please PM me immediately. I am serious.
Thanks for this Merckx, at least one thing to smile about on this otherwise very depressing day.


Alpe d'Huez said:
I think a big question now being asked with RGIII is why was he in the game in the first place, and why did the team let him dictate, at least to a certain degree, his staying in the game? He said they'd have to drag him out to keep him from playing, but that's not how coaches and doctor's work. And since they (apparently) knew he was on a gimpy knee, why weren't they more prepared to put Cousins in, who actually played well earlier in the year in relief? Why didn't they prep him more during the week? The Skins also only had two QB's on roster, Grossman wasn't even suited up. What were they thinking?

One thing's for sure, RGIII, as Foxxy says, isn't going to play the same way when he returns (whenever that is). The good news is that, as I alluded to, if he becomes more of a pocket passer who rolls out, or works within a moving pocket, he has the arm to throw anywhere in the field. And I think he has the smarts to adapt to that. But we may not see this QB until 2014 (gulp). One thing is for sure, there is no possible way Washington is going to give up Cousins in the off-season.

According to Chris Mortensen of ESPN, Griffin will undergo “total reconstruction” surgery early Wednesday morning to repair complete tears to his ACL and LCL. Dr. James Andrews will perform the surgery and he is expected to miss six to eight months. Mortensen reported at 1:03 a.m. ET that the surgery would take place in “about six hours” placing the actual time of the surgery somewhere around 7 a.m. ET.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/09/report-robert-griffin-iii-out-6-8-months-with-complete-acl-lcl-tears/

I am SO p!ssed off by how this happened. I was screaming at the tv at HT that Shanny should pull him. I'm not for a moment suggesting that the outcome of the game would have been any different, but maybe RG3's knee wouldn't have gotten as destroyed as it has. The only upside that I can find is that he's being operated on by the same surgeon who did AP, so maybe 3Bob will be in with a shout at MVP in 2014.:confused:

I'll post my picks in due course, but I've got to smash a wall first.......
 
Yes, heard this morning about the double tear. Not good. The recovery times you listed were favorable. Recall that Adrian Peterson tore his ACL on the last game of 2011, and barely made it back to start 2012, and that was with a very aggressive and rigorous rehab. As I said, I anticipate the Redskins will now prepare for Kirk Cousins to be the starter heading into next season, with RGIII coming back at some point. When he does, he won't play quite the same. I still think he could be quite good in this league, because he has the arm and the smarts and leadership qualities to do it. But he wont run for 800 yards. More like 200.

This type of injury has happened before. In 2007 Dennis Dixon was the QB for the Oregon Ducks. They were ranked #2 in the nation and on a serious roll. In week 6 he injured his knee, very similar to RGIII, only a partial ACL tear. Dixon missed a game, they put a brace on him, and he was named the starter again a week after that. He was very confident he could play and at the start of the game he looked good, until this time on a simple play he planted his foot, and the knee gave, a full ACL tear. His season was over, arguably his career ruined. The situation was eerily similar to RGIII. Video link here.

In other news the Dallas Cowboys fired DC Rob Ryan, reportedly while Ryan was on vacation. A lot of Cowboys players were upset about it. I personally think it was a stupid decision. The Cowboys need some sort of stability, with Jerry Jones too frequently making knee jerk reactions, not letting his talented team gel. Considering the Jets fired everyone but Rex, I suggest they complete the show and hire Robb.
 
FoxxyBrown1111 said:
Anyway, i expect a major decline in RG3´s efficiency stats nxt season (if he ever comes back), since he will throw more out of normal formations (unless of course Shanahan is real crazy and will sacrifice his QB again for short term success).

Did i miss some inside joke here, or did you just drink the same lager as me? ;)
Ooow. I did THAT? Well, unfortunately I can't blame it on any lager this time. That's funny. And I get to laugh at myself several more times on this page.


Merckx index said:
I will bet you $100,000 that Baltimore does not lose to Denver in the NFC. Please PM me immediately. I am serious.

Indeed. Can’t believe some people in this forum are buying the analysts’ BS that it was the right move to keep a guy who was noticeably limping at the end of the 1st quarter in the game. How can anyone seriously say, “awful to see that happen”, and then in the next breath, “right move to keep him in.” You don’t see the obvious contradiction?
You are a richer man than I if you can wager that amount. My heart is with the Raves, but still think they are most LIKELY to lose in Denver. Not that they will lose.

The fact is that RG still gave them the best shot to win the game. That is why he stayed in the game. It's easy to say it was the wrong decision AFTER the game is done and the Skins lost. But the decisions to let him keep playing are GAME TIME decisions by football players and minds (including the medical staff... that's the possible scandal). As long as the team doctor says he seems okay to continue, and player agrees, then the player gives it a go. So there is no contradiction in the mind of a typical football player. It is just a different way of thinking. Show me one quote by an NFL player who said it was wrong for RG to keep playing, and I'll show you 100 who say the opposite. But they all say the injury is unfortunate. Football is a risky game. Everytime a player steps on the field he understands it could be his last.

Now, the scandal could be that the team doctor advised Shanny and RG that he cannot continue. If that is the case (and there's lots of discussion about what transpired between RG, the doc, & HC), then letting him play would not be following team protocols and would be the wrong choice. But if the doctor says he could play, but should not, then it falls to the player's or coach's choice. If this was a mid-season game, my guess is RG would not have continued. But in the playoffs with everything on the line... well, you saw what happened. The choice RG made was the choice NFL players throughout history have had to make. They play with a lot of pain until injury prevents them from playing. Some ppl may not like or understand that and say it is wrong, but that's the player's choice and that's the NFL. BTW, this happens in college too, so by the time players reach the NFL this way of thinking is already set in their minds.

RG3 will be back, and in full form when he is ready. Watching him this season I felt he took too much risk running and took unnecessary hits like the one that damaged his knee several weeks ago. So I agree he will run differently, not less hard, just differently to not expose himself so much. Example... look at the way RW3 (Russel Wilson jersey #3) runs compared to RG3. Wilson does things to avoid contact most of the time, by running out of bounds or sliding. RG3 will need to do more of that.

How is it that all the pins in the Jets lane at the bowling alley fall except the head pin? Jets OC, DC, and GM are all gone, and Rex is left standing. Amazing. Rex must have some pull.

Right decision for Oregon HC Chip Kelly to stay at Oregon instead of jumping to the NFL. I really don't think his up tempo high power offense (which is based more on run) would translate that well to the NFL because in the NFL everybody is fast. Also, Chip has unfinished work to do at Oregon, which is to improve an average defense while maintaining that offensive output. Then to win the NC.
 
Pazuzu said:
New England over Houston
Denver over Baltimore
Green Bay over San Francisco
Seattle over Atlanta
Alpe d'Huez said:
Is RW3 better than Matt Ryan? Hawks receivers better than Falcons? Seattle certainly runs the ball better, and has a better defense, but...

I'm sticking with SF over GB, but won't be shocked by a GB win.
I'll pick same as Pazuzu.

To input on Alpe's questions:
Is RW3 better than Matt Ryan? NO. Or at least not yet. I would want RW3 to prove it first. A little more history of performance under RW3's belt is needed for me to reverse that call.
Hawks receivers better than Falcons? NO. I'd take Roddy & Julio over SEA top 2 of Rice/Tate. I do like Rice and Tate a lot though.
 
Tony Gonzalez is also better than Zach Miller.

But if we look at defenses, Atlanta is clearly inferior to Seattle. Overall 4th vs 24th in the season. Seattle was 6th against the pass, where Atlanta was 26th. In points Atlanta improved to 6th, where Seattle was 1st.
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
Tony Gonzalez is also better than Zach Miller.

But if we look at defenses, Atlanta is clearly inferior to Seattle. Overall 4th vs 24th in the season. Seattle was 6th against the pass, where Atlanta was 26th. In points Atlanta improved to 6th, where Seattle was 1st.
For sure on Tony. For this divisional game I was going to say I would rather have Tony, but for the long term I would take Zach just because of age. The stats and personnel of both teams make this game a real interesting matchup. If hawks can win down there they would have to be considered as one of the elite teams, instead as just some wildcard team. Or at least very close to elite, which would be justifiable as they still have a few holes to fill at WR and OL to put them up there.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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on3m@n@rmy said:
I'll pick same as Pazuzu.

To input on Alpe's questions:
Is RW3 better than Matt Ryan? NO. Or at least not yet. I would want RW3 to prove it first. A little more history of performance under RW3's belt is needed for me to reverse that call.
Hawks receivers better than Falcons? NO. I'd take Roddy & Julio over SEA top 2 of Rice/Tate. I do like Rice and Tate a lot though.
Seattle recievers are a tale of two personalities and some of that was on display in the first quarter of the Washington game. Sometimes the ball seems a little "slippery" when it hits them exactly in the hands. Can be very frustrating although Rice is the one that can take a hit better than almost any reciever I've seen. Tate can be magical after the catch which opens up shorter throws on critical third downs. He routinely got the first down after the catch and that will be Atlanta's problem: play him hard and tight and he may get by into the secondary. Watch that battle along with Seattle's O line. The defense will take care of themselves despite the few replacements.
 
Oldman said:
Seattle recievers are a tale of two personalities and some of that was on display in the first quarter of the Washington game. Sometimes the ball seems a little "slippery" when it hits them exactly in the hands. Can be very frustrating although Rice is the one that can take a hit better than almost any reciever I've seen. Tate can be magical after the catch which opens up shorter throws on critical third downs. He routinely got the first down after the catch and that will be Atlanta's problem: play him hard and tight and he may get by into the secondary. Watch that battle along with Seattle's O line. The defense will take care of themselves despite the few replacements.
Agree with that. Sydney Rice can be magical too, especially on the sideline or edges of the endzone. He is so long when he stretches out and does a great job of getting both feet in... it's like fine art. AND RW3 has done a good job with pass location.

OL coach Cable has done a fantastic job with limited and rotating talent (McQuistan, Sweezy, Giacomini, Moffit, Carp who's out). Project Sweezy shows promise, as does Carp when he is healthy. I'm not sold on Moffit, McQ, and Giacomini. So this is a group that could be upgraded in free agency or draft. But the current OL has to play well for Seattle to beat Atlanta.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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I have to suddenly do a favor for a friend and drive to Strasburg and back. I may miss the first two games, though I will tivo the Ravens game, which is the only real interest I still have. As much as I'd love to see the Ravens progress, I honestly can't see it happening. And as much as I understand why I should be backing Seattle, I'm going to be obstinate and go against the general trend.;)

Denver
Packers
Atlanta
NE
 
The cat is out of the bag. On ESPN game break down, Teddy Bruschi revealed the secret I was keeping here... the Skins glaring coAching mistake of not running MORE at Bruce Irvin after Irvin subbed in for injured Chris Chemmons. When the Skins did that they did what they wanted with Bruce and ran with sucess. Falcs should do same until Hawks stop it.
 
Everyone keeps questioning Irvin's ability to stop the run, but I won't be at all surprised if Irvin isn't even seen in most 1st downs and we see a lot of Greg Scruggs. As I noted before, Scruggs is an athletic rookie who has been apparently itching to play more, so now is his big chance. I think we'll see him on a lot of 1st and 2nd down plays, and sometimes with Irvin playing along side him (or Bryant) in 2nd or 3rd and long situations. The Seahawks have never been shy to blitz all season, and they won't stop now just because Clemons is out.

A bigger key is that if Seattle can't shove Lynch down Atlanta's throat, how RW3 (love that nickname, btw) adapts. This may be the game right here.
 
True Scruggs is an option which Seattle will prolly use. Pete Carroll has said this is the time for Irvin to step up, so it will be interesting to see exactly how they use him. But I bet they do use Scruggs on plays where they try to seal the edge.
 
May 18, 2009
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Amsterhammer said:
I have to suddenly do a favor for a friend and drive to Strasburg and back. I may miss the first two games, though I will tivo the Ravens game, which is the only real interest I still have. As much as I'd love to see the Ravens progress, I honestly can't see it happening. And as much as I understand why I should be backing Seattle, I'm going to be obstinate and go against the general trend.;)

Denver
Packers
Atlanta
NE
Agree with you on Atlanta, I took them in a bet with a coworker.

SF over GB, though.
 
Final thoughts on today's games. Baltimore MUST be able to run the ball on Denver, and keep the game close and slow through 1Q. If they let Denver's defense stop them early, and PM on the field all the time the game could be over early. I'll be cheering for Baltimore, but don't see them winning.

The SF-GB game is very intriguing. If GB can run at all, and protect Rodgers, I can see the Packers having enough firepower to win. This is the healthiest they have been all year, and if on defense they can slow Gore and confuse Kaep at all, they can win. Having Woodson back 100% may be a big key. Also, how healthy is Justin Smith for SF? I'll stick with SF at home, but won't be surprised at all if this seasoned, healthy GB team wins.
 
Drive safe Amster. Enjoy the game later after the Raves win ;).

Actually, I think the same as Alpe about the Raves-Broncs game. I hope the Raves can pull it off, though they likely will not.

As for the SF-GB game, I also think likewise about the Packers chances. Rogers has all of his receiving weapons back which could make it tough on SF. I'd almost rather be playing SF right now than GB.

Go Houston. Go Hawks!
 
What a game going on in Denver! 21-21 at half. Denver OL doing very good job making it fairly easy for Peyton and RBs. Raves OL doing good job too in pass protection but need do better in run game. The defense that can get to the QB will control second half, or the offense that takes over the run game. Otherwise it's a shootout to the end.
 
on3m@n@rmy said:
What a game going on in Denver! 21-21 at half. Denver OL doing very good job making it fairly easy for Peyton and RBs. Raves OL doing good job too in pass protection but need do better in run game. The defense that can get to the QB will control second half, or the offense that takes over the run game. Otherwise it's a shootout to the end.
you forgot punt returns ;)

lots of beauty in this game -- on both sides. fun fun fun!
 

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