National Football League

[ToreBear]

I'm not at all surprised by this, I would have been surprised if he beat out Hoyer. I think it was always the plan to have him as a backup so that he could learn the game. The owner said so only a few days after he was drafted.

Now if Manziel had some sort of on field magic that allowed him to win despite all the deficiencies in his game, then he could have beaten Hoyer. But he hasn't shown any NFL ready magic, and has shown that he needs a little more maturity before he can carry an NFL franchise on his back.

Aditionally, had they planned to start him, they would have been much more aggressive in fortifying their Oline and their receiving group, like Jacksonville did.

I don't think it's a good idea to start Rookie QBs too early. The adversity they will face might ruin their future development.

Here is a good article:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-starting-on-bench-is-best-for-his-nfl-career

And I don't think the local Browns fans were ever screaming for Manziel. They like Hoyer who is a local and has a 3-0 record for them.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

There was the story that manziel phoned the quarterback coach late into the evening on first round day, then the quarterback coach somehow convinced the rest of the coaches to pull the trigger even though none of them actually wanted him.

If JF knows of that and it was true, that's a tough situation for him.


Good read Torebear. I agree completely. Some of this was known a long time ago, and SHOULD have been a warning flag... like not going through all his progressions in reading defenses.

Good news is Jim Kelly's cancer free, but more confirming tests are planned. LINK

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I'm reminded again of Brady Quinn, who cautioned Manziel a month or so ago about his antics. If you hear Quinn talk today, he's modest, thoughtful, and seems to understand he has a limited time left in the NFL, and it's likely to be as a back-up QB, so he's going to make the best of it. But many people will most remember Quinn for the smug look on his face and his hair a mess on draft day, and his comments before even getting to camp he should have been drafted a lot higher. Then, not looking prepared when finally getting his chance to play.

As the old saying goes, a wise man learns from his mistakes, but a wiser man learns from the mistakes of others. So far Manziel hasn't learned from Quinn's mistakes it seems. Not just off, but on the field.

That Bleacher Report article on Manziel was excellent. This line really stuck out:

What he really needs to be taught, though, isn't how to handle himself off the field; it's how to play pro football.

That was part of what I was saying before. His wild west style of improvisation won't work very well in the NFL. Defenses are too fast, plays develop too quickly. But his teammates said he had a lot of work ethic in camp, so hopefully he can keep that up. No one harbors illusions the Browns are going to win the Superbowl this year, in fact they're likely to finish dead last in that tough division, but if as a team they can build, and Manziel can keep working hard, his future may be okay. But as that article says, he has a lot to work on.

 

[Oldman]

Carrying a clipboard for $2-3mil a year X 12 years is a good career. You usually can walk away from it. Maybe not rich with endorsement deals but, again; you can walk. Everyone's advice on Johnny is good...be humble first.

 

[The Hitch]

Isn't manziel mega rich anyway from his parents? Also he has millions from sponsorships already since pre draft.

 

[Oldman]

Isn't manziel mega rich anyway from his parents? Also he has millions from sponsorships already since pre draft.

Then he should perfect the clipboard pose and assure his face is still in the mix and doesn't go Full Tebow.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

As I said before, the football team from Washington will not be called the Redskins in 5-10 years. Despite Sarah Palin and Mike Ditka's idiotic comments to the contrary.

First, Phil Simms says he's already been using the word less, and is focusing on just calling them Washington on the air.

The Washington Post has added another straw to the camel's back, saying they won't be using the term in their editorials either, with few exceptions. In the article the team notes that respected referee Mike Carey, who recently retired, requested to not officiate any of their games dating back to 1996. And the granddaughter of the man who gave the team it's name said it should be changed.

The thing is, there are plenty of alternate names that could be adopted. I personally like Red Clouds, after Chief Red Cloud. Redtails could work well, and be worked into a native theme. Here's a recent list.

 

[The Hitch]

Bradford out for season

Damn. I had money on Rams to win NFC as well (60-1) but more importantly I really wanted to see that team at its best because I think the strength they have in their trenches (probably best in NFL) would make for very entertaining football. And i thought this would be the season Bradford would shine - since he was actually doing quite well last year, and has in the past been hampered by weak teams and constant change of schemes.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Yes, heard about that. Terrible news. I hate to say he's fragile, but after being injured in college, last year, and now this...

Shaun Hill is the most likely candidate to step in. A veteran who played fairly well with an average SF team a few years back when Alex Smith was hurt, and not quite as well with a crummy Detroit team, he's likely to have a "make few mistakes" approach. Shaun is 34.

This also puts the Rams in an extra bind. Do they make a trade and get a young QB stuck on the bench, but showing promise like Kirk Cousins, Matt McGloin or Mike Glennon? And if they do, what happens when Sam gets healthy? Or do they try to grab a current backup veteran like Brady Quinn, Michael Vick, Jason Campbell, Christian Ponder, or Tavaras Jackson,? Any of these players will be unfamiliar with their offense, and may take several weeks to be up to the speed where Hill is.

If there is one hope, it's that undrafted sophomore Austin Davis has shown hope of being a solid backup if he has to play.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Bradford out for season

Damn. I had money on Rams to win NFC as well (60-1) but more importantly I really wanted to see that team at its best because I think the strength they have in their trenches (probably best in NFL) would make for very entertaining football.

If they are (I can´t rate it. I see them to less) one of the best in the trenches, the QB should easily shine behind such line.
Since Bradford never did, he is either overrated, or the OL isn´t that good as you think.
Either way: You lost nothing with your long shot bet. The QB was indeed average. That much was clear. A overpaid 1st rounder who kept being put on the field because of the money invested in him. If he was a 6th rounder, he´d been out of the league after max 2 years...
Whoever is the back-up will do no worse than him. That one I can guarantee.

And i thought this would be the season Bradford would shine - since he was actually doing quite well last year, and has in the past been hampered by weak teams and constant change of schemes.

Actually he got lucky. Staying with one team and some consistency.
The usual low rounder that get shipped around doesn´t have that luxury. Just ask Josh McCown or Shaun Hill for example...

 

[The Hitch]

If they are (I can´t rate it. I see them to less) one of the best in the trenches, the QB should easily shine behind such line.
Since Bradford never did, he is either overrated, or the OL isn´t that good as you think.

By trenches I mean both sides of the ball. Their d line was already one of the best in the game and they got potential talent in 2nd fav for DROY in Donald, and their O line was already good and they added the number 2 pick to it.

And Bradford did shine last year. He was on pace for a very good year before getting injured. He also won OROY once upon a time.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

He also won OROY once upon a time.

AFAIR Mirer did too...
The election goes like... who was a drafted RB or QB who got much attempts in his rookie year. No matter of the outcome (unless you were really miserable, measured in Leaf like proportions).

I know the meaning of trenches.
We just talked about the offensive side of the ball. No matter how good a QB is, he has no influence on the other side. Just ask Kurt the great, especially in 2000.
Bradford shone? When, where, what. Having some flashes ain´t good enough. Everybody can have streakes. Even many of them (see Flacco and Eli).
Sam Bradford had no single season above or at NFL average in Y/A or Cmp.-Pct.!
I mean if you are good in dinks and dunks, you have a good CmpPct. He fails. If you have a cannon arm in a vertical offense, you have a high Y/A. He fails.
Behind a good OL, that´s awful to say the least.

He only is better than NFL-Avg in Ints. But that comes auto if you only try baby throws into open short field underneath. No need to spend millions. You get that with every 4th rounder for 1/10th of the money.

 

[The Hitch]

AFAIR Mirer did too...
The election goes like... who was a drafted RB or QB who got much attempts in his rookie year. No matter of the outcome (unless you were really miserable, measured in Leaf like proportions).

I know the meaning of trenches.
We just talked about the offensive side of the ball. No matter how good a QB is, he has no influence on the other side. Just ask Kurt the great, especially in 2000.
Bradford shone? When, where, what. Having some flashes ain´t good enough. Everybody can have streakes. Even many of them (see Flacco and Eli).
Sam Bradford had no single season above or at NFL average in Y/A or Cmp.-Pct.!
I mean if you are good in dinks and dunks, you have a good CmpPct. He fails. If you have a cannon arm in a vertical offense, you have a high Y/A. He fails.
Behind a good OL, that´s awful to say the least.

He only is better than NFL-Avg in Ints. But that comes auto if you only try baby throws into open short field underneath. No need to spend millions. You get that with every 4th rounder for 1/10th of the money.

Well his O/L was good last year and maybe this year (after they added Long). He only played 7 games. Before his OL wasn't that good. and he's had no receivers to throw to. Last year over the 7 games he was good. He's no Breesus but with all the talent the Rams have aquired from the RG3 trade he was plenty good enough to fight for the playoffs if not this year then the next. They went 7-9 with a backup playing most of the season last year and had what looks at the moment (early) like the best draft of everyone (hits on OL, DL, safety, maybe Sam as well).

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Kellen Clemens a proven failure in the past (why is he still getting jobs) had a much higher Y/A than Bradford and a little worse Cmp-Pct...Who knows? Bradford was the proven dink and dunker, while they took more shots downfield with Clemens...
No matter what, the outcomes were the same.
SL going 3-4 with Bradford as QB, and 4-5 with Clemens as QB...

After all, we are back to where we started: Your bet doesn´t took any bad hit. SL is as good (or bad) with the replacement QB for Bradford as they are with him.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Reflecting a little on Bradford (and Clemons) is interesting. Both in college looked like pro's and missed their last year of eligibility for the most part. Bradford was obviously better. When a sophomore at OK he broke the TD record, and was noted for reading defenses like a pro, and having a highly accurate arm. Similar to Clemons at Oregon, actually, though Sam was better, and much more highly touted.

When both got into the NFL, it was somewhat quickly noticed that neither had that strong of an arm. Not noodles, but no Aaron Rodgers. Probably not even as strong as Alex Smith or Andy Dalton, who are considered average at best. But Sam still did win ROY. But there wasn't much stand out about that season if you look back. Played all 16 games at least. 3,512 yards, 219 per game. 18 TDs, 15 Ints, a 76 passer rating. Those are pretty average numbers, really. But the hope was that Sam would blossom into greatness. He never did.

2011 he missed six games, and threw for the same TDs as INTs. in 2012 was maybe his best year, but about the same as his rookie season. Last year, when the team reportedly surrounded him with better players, his numbers still weren't that great over 7 games. 14 TDs against 4 ints. A 90.9 rating. He would have needed a stellar second half of the season to break 4,000 yards passing.

These are numbers of an average QB. Not a poor one. An average one.

Clemens last year on the Rams was not quite as good as Sam, and his career numbers have to be considered sub average. But as a Ram he played okay. As a matter of fact, he was playing when the Rams were hot overall, and briefly made people believe the team could win, without Bradford.

Looking at Shaun Hill's career numbers, they are better than I gave him credit for. Even in his "worst" season with the 2010 Lions team his numbers aren't terrible. It's going to be interesting to see how he does as a starter over 16 games. Also, Jeff Fischer said yesterday afternoon he was their guy and they weren't looking to bring someone else in. Now, that may not hold if they can swing some sort of deal they like. And there is talk Mark Sanchez will be that guy. But they got Hill in free agency when they could have gotten Mark, and he says he's not leaving Philly. But for now, I'm going to guess Hill may have a fairly decent year in a mostly run based offense. Better than Clemens did last season. A better season than what was expected of Bradford? We'll see. That's a brutal division.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Reflecting a little on Bradford (and Clemons) is interesting. Both in college looked like pro's and missed their last year of eligibility for the most part. Bradford was obviously better.

Shows it again. College means not much when going to the NFL.
I quote again from Moneyball, Billy Beane "We (the scouts) know nothing...".
And that´s Baseball, where it´s a lot easier to abstract individual performance from team performance.

Bradford is just another 1st round QB bust. He´s in a long line there...
I think scouts get overly confident in college QBs that are surrounded by talent around them, while they miss on the QBs who play on bad teams and/or low colleges. Yeah Warner, the old example comes to mind again. But I also like to bring up Toby Korrodi now and then. That guy had a monster arm, was praised by everybody that knew/played with him, yet he never got a chance in the NFL.

But Sam still did win ROY. But there wasn't much stand out about that season if you look back. Played all 16 games at least. 3,512 yards, 219 per game. 18 TDs, 15 Ints, a 76 passer rating. Those are pretty average numbers, really. But the hope was that Sam would blossom into greatness. He never did.

Matching the criteria I talked about. Be a RB or QB, get much attempts, and you are in the hunt for OROY, no matter if your play was quality or not.
This award is a bigger joke than the SB-MVP where the public can also vote in since when Brady won it with 144 yds passing...

Clemens last year on the Rams was not quite as good as Sam

I would disagree. Both were (below) average. Clemens better in Y/A, Bradford better in the dink/dunk department (speak better Cmp.-Pct.).
SL with Bradford; 22.3 points per game, 1 game below .500
SL with Clemens; 21.3 points per game, 1 game below .500

So ok, based on that small sample size, Bradford was slightly better. But whom we compare? A multi millionare 1st round failure vs a proven 2nd round failure, career back-up...
I mean the offense was based around Bradford for what? 4 Years? The guy got all the reps, and yet couldn´t even out-shine Clemens. Clemens after all.

Looking at Shaun Hill's career numbers ... Better than Clemens did last season. A better season than what was expected of Bradford? We'll see. That's a brutal division.

If he does better than Clemens last year, that auto means he´ll do better than Bradford.

Anyway, I think there are better FA-QBs on the market. But after all, that´s Fishers team. He don´t care about QBs, but a solid 3.0 Y/A-up the middle run game. LOL.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

We're getting down to the end of the pre-season, and cuts to 53 will happen by Saturday. Here are some thoughts:

After ESPN's idiotic report on the showering habits of Michael Sam, I loved Chris Long's tweet

"Dear ESPN - Everyone but you is over it."

I'd say Michael Sam is 50/50 to make the Rams, he's about even with Eric Westbrooks, who looked better earlier. But if they cut him, he may get picked up by another team, because the Rams have a lot of depth of defense.

Brady Quinn went 4 for 4 last week for Miami, but all were short passes and they cut him. He had been in talks to do TV announcing with FOX, and may do that if another team doesn't grab him.

Josh Gordon's suspension for weed held up to 1 year. Remember kids, if you beat your wife unconscious it's not good and you'll miss two games. But if you smoke pot, you're a bad, bad person.

Or maybe you play for the Steelers, as they seem to have a couple of real knucleheads on their team.

Did you notice that the NY Giants went 4-0 in the preseason? Eli put together a couple decent drives, but his overall numbers are terrible, as bad as last season. His backups played better than he did. Going to be an interesting year.

Some teams look stellar, no matter who is on the field it seems. The Saints, the Seahawks, and mostly the Broncos. Everyone is jumping on Denver's bandwagon, but I'm still iffy on them being great in January. Though I can see them starting out 9-1 or so.

In the next few days I'll make some seasonal predictions.

I'll also try to get some people motivated for game picks this year, and lay out the rules for Survival Football (mentioned by Tricycle Rider last season), and Elimination Football). I'll list details later, but here is how Survival Football works:

Pick a different winner of one pro football game each week. Win, and live to pick again. Lose, and you are eliminated for the season (can also be changed to where if you get one free pass). Some leagues have it to where you can't repeat teams. Others allow limited repeats. We'll discuss later.

Elimination Football is even easier to play. After ever week, you pick two teams that will not win the Superbowl. The last two weeks you only eliminate 1 team. This starts out pretty easy, but gets hard towards the end.

 

[leftover pie]

I'll also try to get some people motivated for game picks this year, and lay out the rules for Survival Football (mentioned by Tricycle Rider last season), and Elimination Football). I'll list details later, but here is how Survival Football works:

Pick a different winner of one pro football game each week. Win, and live to pick again. Lose, and you are eliminated for the season (can also be changed to where if you get one free pass). Some leagues have it to where you can't repeat teams. Others allow limited repeats. We'll discuss later.

Elimination Football is even easier to play. After ever week, you pick two teams that will not win the Superbowl. The last two weeks you only eliminate 1 team. This starts out pretty easy, but gets hard towards the end.

I'm keen for some prediction games, have to do better than my playoff run though.

Also, I can recommend:

http://www.footytips.com.au

It allows you to do 2 types of competitions, total (pick each game) and streak (see how many correct results you can pick in a row).

It's free and it's easy to set up a private competition so only CNForumers can join.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

NFL Survival Football 2014

Sorry I haven't posted in a while, been busy fixing up my bike. (Chain, rear derailleur, truing, replacing cog set, you name it.)

Anyhoo, as promised I'll commish survival football this season...

At first glance this seems like a simple game, all you have to do is pick one team each week you think will win. The tricky part is you cannot pick that team again for the rest of the season, I have yet to see anyone survive till the post-season.

To join and play you need a Yahoo account, and then click on:

http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com/survival

Click on "join a group"

Group ID#: 21077

Group password: rusty1

The deadline to submit your weekly pick is 5 minutes before the first game of the week starts. (These Thursday night games are really screwing me up.)

Everybody is welcome, good luck, and let me know if you have any questions or probs with joining.


Btw., the only thing we are playing for is some bragging rights - no money (or even a Snickers bar) is involved.

 

[The Hitch]

Since there's only a few of us it can be done here through the forum, would be funner too.

But since I already do survival elsewhere I suggest we do reverse survival.

Pick a team each week to lose, but can't pick that team again.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

Since there's only a few of us it can be done here through the forum, would be funner too.

But since I already do survival elsewhere I suggest we do reverse survival.

Pick a team each week to lose, but can't pick that team again.

If you wish to run the reverse league instead, be my guest.

I'll be happy to join, just show me how to play this game.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I'm likely to merge this into the regular NFL thread, and leave a re-direct that lasts two weeks. Thoughts?

 

[Amsterhammer]

I'm likely to merge this into the regular NFL thread, and leave a re-direct that lasts two weeks. Thoughts?

Sounds like a plan. I'll just play along here as I really don't need a Yahoo account that I'll never use for anything else.

 

[The Hitch]

If you wish to run the reverse league instead, be my guest.

I'll be happy to join, just show me how to play this game.

You just post the name of the team.

E.g. Jacksonville jaguars.

If they lose, well done you. If they win you give yourself a strike.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

I'm likely to merge this into the regular NFL thread, and leave a re-direct that lasts two weeks. Thoughts?

I'm not sure what you mean by re-direct, but sure thing, works for me.

You just post the name of the team.

E.g. Jacksonville jaguars.

If they lose, well done you. If they win you give yourself a strike.

Okey dokey, that sounds like a plan.