National Football League

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Re:

Alpe d'Huez said:
Yeah, that definitely is going to play into his legacy. It won't seriously tarnish it, ...
Also he could bring up the Brad Johnson thing, saying you still have the throw an accurate ball, still have to find open receivers, still have to know the playbook, read defenses, etc. etc.
This could affect his legacy a bit, but because of that complete skillset (bold text) I really do not think his legacy will be affected much at all. At least not in my mind.
 
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Tricycle Rider said:
What does this even mean?

It means if this were a civil suit, Brady would pay. It means if it were a doping violation, he would have a good chance of being sanctioned. It means if it were a murder trial, he would walk.

you still have the throw an accurate ball

Yes, and it’s easier to do that when the ball is under-inflated. That’s why they do it.

still have to find open receivers

Yes, and it’s easier for them to catch and hold the ball when it’s under-inflated.

still have to know the playbook

I would think even the third string QB on a non-contending team would know the playbook. If you want to talk about knowing the playbook, those who have seen him say no one knows it better than Tebow. Hasn’t done him much good yet.

read defenses

And react to them, which can be done slightly faster when you have a better grip on the ball.

The biggest winner here may be Belichick. He gets off scot-free. Did he really not know this was going on? If it were a one-time thing, Brady asked these guys to let some air out of the balls just for this one game, then I could believe he didn’t know. But if this was going on all the time, then of course Beli knew.

It’s not just the QB who benefits. Remember that when the story first broke, someone pointed out that a deflated ball is easier for a RB to hold onto, and that the Pats over a long period of time were the best team at not fumbling the ball, and also the best team in cold weather conditions.

I keep coming back to the fact that the Pats don’t simply win a lot, they do it in a variety of ways. Most teams win in character. The Seahawks and the 49ers (for a while) win with stifling defense and a strong running game. The Packers and the Saints and the Broncos win with an overwhelming passing game. The Giants win by getting lucky. But the Pats can win by moving at will against a team that previously was impenetrable to the short passing game (SE), by shutting down one of the best young QBs (IND), or by gaining more than 200 yards with a RB who had previously given little indication he could do that (IND 2013-14). They don’t have any character in that sense. That they win is predictable, but the way they win is not predictable.

Maybe that’s because Beli is such a great coach. But most teams are limited in what they can do, because the coaches have a specific philosophy, and recruit and teach players to fit in with and execute that philosophy. If you have a great QB and design your offense around him, it’s hard to win a game by plugging in someone no one ever heard of and having him run wild. That requires different play from the OL, a lot of revamping.

I don’t doubt that Belli is a great coach, but I think he adds to his winning ways by being better than other coaches in pushing the envelope.

Edit: The internet is going bananas over Deflategate. In a poll at the NY Daily News, 75% of respondents say Brady should be suspended, and 29% say he should be suspended for the entire season. Another report says that possibility is on the table, that the NFL isn't rejecting that out of hand. My guess is he will get 2-4 games. The NFL has to give him some kind of punishment, but given that even drug positives don't result in full season suspensions, I doubt that a deflated ball will.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Great post by all of you... :)

I am busy with the GGTG, so I can only quote the most serious lines: ;)
Winner; "The Giants win by getting lucky" by Merckx
Runner-up; "Seriously, the Patriots should have hired me" by Alpe
Bronze; "Well, it means what it means :D " by on3
 
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Here's another way of looking at it. Even if he had just flat admitted it when it first came up, what's the worst thing that could have happened? Does anyone really think the NFL would have suspended Brady from the Super Bowl because of it? Never in a million years.

Meanwhile, the Cowboys have again raised eye brows by signing La'el Collins. He's the former LSU offensive lineman who was projected to go in the first round. Then, his (sometime) girlfriend, who was pregnant, wound up dead. A shotgun blast to the stomach. Both she, and later the baby, died. Collins was quiet at first, but did eventually talk with the police. He has never been labeled a suspect, and the police recently said that the DNA of the baby does not match him, and he's not even a person of interest. So the Cowboys ran with this info, and signed him. It could benefit them a lot down the road if he's truly innocent. I think all along there was a concern this was a Ray Carruth kind of thing, where he, or someone he hired, killed her to kill the baby. But since the baby isn't his, and the police don't even consider him part of the crime, the Cowboys grabbed him.
 
Any penalties handed out to the Brady Bunch i hope are not just monetary. In fact, I hope they don't get fined. They have so much money that money does not mean anything to them. What I hope is that there are suspensions, future draft picks removed, maybe even stripping past titles won (without replacing them with a runner up). And they could go back a fair amount of time with that one, considering the Pats have had the lowest percent fumble rate in the NFL for quite a few years running. Now is that coaching or some other help? It could be both. But suspensions, picks, and removing titles would have more teeth than any financial penalty.

I hate to say this on La'el, but the fact the deceased babies DNA is NOT his might actually do more to make him a suspect than if the DNA was his.
 
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I personally think that's overkill. However, if I understand the rules correctly, the maximum fine would be $110,000, or $10k for every violation. And that certainly doesn't seem like enough. I think Brady should be suspended a few games, and that's it.
 
Re:

Merckx index said:
Tricycle Rider said:
What does this even mean?
It means if this were a civil suit, Brady would pay. It means if it were a doping violation, he would have a good chance of being sanctioned. It means if it were a murder trial, he would walk.
This should at least tie for bronze for being a precise explanation, which you might expect from the Stanford alum with a big library in his home.
 
Re:

Alpe d'Huez said:
I personally think that's overkill. ...
You may be right, I may be crazy... :D

Here's where I'm coming from though. If many more of these kinds of things are discovered the NFL stands a chance to lose fans. And one way to curtail these kind of things is to have a penalty stiff enough to become a serious deterrent. Take pro cycling for example. I lost complete interest in pro cycling and have stopped following it primarily because riders are still being caught doping. It is a cleaner field now than it was during the Pharmstrong era, but with weak consequences riders are still willing to take chances. I love football too much to see it go down in flames. Football is so popular it would take something big for its popularity to dwindle. But it happened with the NBA, which I'm also no longer a fan of, and it could happen with the NFL.

What you said about Brady getting just a couple game suspension is probably what will happen. If so, or whatever it ends up being, I just hope it is effective at producing the desired end result.
 
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Excellent post, I find it hard to disagree with all you wrote, and feel the same way. Same about the NBA (the 2002 Western finals where the Kings were screwed by the NBA/Refs did it for me. Though the brawl two years later in Detroit cemented it). I was also completely soured by Armstrong to pro cycling and agree there. I still watch and love it, but not the same way.

The NFL is at a tipping point. Goodell and the league is going to have to be even more assertive and transparent than they have been to keep their league and popularity afloat. They already have a great sport. But the endless stream of domestic violence, or just violence cases, coupled with cheating like this, is very bad. And as Foxxy says, they are quite possibly one Tim Donaghy type gambling scandal away from a big fall. Not a fast fall, but a big one. I applaud Goodell for trying to be proactive, but it's likely going to take more than he's doing, and more than the league realizes, lest they end up like the NBA.

As to what was handed down, I think the suspension is fair, but only for the lying and cover up. As I said before, if Brady hadn't been such an idiot and instead played it the way I suggested, they'd have a leg to stand on. As is, they don't. The only question I have is giving up so many draft picks, when it appears upper management was fairly clueless to what happened. And to argue they should have been, and since they weren't get this severe of punishment is harsh. Same with the fine. But I guess because it's the Pats, and the league has had enough of their cheating, it must be a big factor.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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....find below a couple of contrarian views on the deflategate/ Brady story....

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/tom-brady-should-retire-to-punish-roger-goodell-and-the-nfl-024132578.html

....wherein it says...

"Roger Goodell and the NFL punished Tom Brady on Monday.

Now it’s time for Brady to punish Goodell and the NFL by retiring from the game.

That’s right. Barring a severely-reduced suspension via appeal, Brady should ride off into the sunset and toward an early retirement. The most successful quarterback in league history should say in no uncertain terms that Goodell is the reason he’s leaving."

....and.. http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/robert-parry/62152/why-write-about-nfls-deflategate

...wherein it says..

"In journalism, we call that a “jam job,” stacking the facts to build toward only one conclusion. I don’t like it when I read such “white papers” or “committee reports” from U.S. government officials and it annoyed me to see it in this context, even if we are “just” talking about the reputation of a football player."

....though read the whole article as it does map out a very interesting look at the mess...

Cheers
 
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Sure. The punishment doesn't fit the crime itself. Doctoring balls in a game is cheating, but really, look back at that game, how much? However, does the punishment fit the cover up? The lying? That's what I think is going on here.

Brady walking away from the sport because of Goodell would make him look like a spoiled crybaby. Just like in cycling, the sport is bigger than the individuals that play it. If Brady did this, after the hoopla died down, Patriot fans would show interest in Garappolo, and get behind him to help lead their team, just like they will during snaps early next season. And Colts, Jets, Bills, Dolphins, Ravens, Broncos fans would quickly take to jeering him, instead of Tom. As a matter of fact, that's going to happen eventually, if not Garappolo, then someone else, whether Tom
walks away in honor, or pouting.

If you really want to do some complaining, I'd say this punishment still isn't as excessive (though obviously not as harsh of crime) what was handed down to the Saints after Bountygate. What the team was doing was wrong, and Greg Williams deserved to be suspended for a year. But the suspensions on some of the players and especially Sean Payton were excessive, certainly in retrospect. Especially considering when upon review, not a single play referenced even resulted in a penalty flag thrown, and the NFL presented no evidence to the NFLPA. It was all under Goodell's authority, his decree, without any sort of peer review.

Anyone do the math on this fine to the Patriots? Since Brady is suspended without pay, the Pats actually make money on the entire debacle. Think about that for a moment.
 
Re:

Alpe d'Huez said:
Anyone do the math on this fine to the Patriots? Since Brady is suspended without pay, the Pats actually make money on the entire debacle. Think about that for a moment.

No to the math here but I'm LM-freakhogcrazy-AO (that's the long version of LMAO). I mean, just when I thought "Good for Goodell. He put his close friendship with Kraft in the back seat with this decision", now I'm thinking Kraft called up Roger and said, "Look, Roger, if you are going to punish the Patriots, do it in a way that is profitable for me". Thanks for helping us read between the lines, Alpe.

On the penalty, I also believe it is a fair one, although in a vote there would probably be a 50/50 split between too harsh and fair. To those who say it is too harsh, I would say good! At least this precedent has a chance of being a deterrent to those who might consider cheating in the future.

On Brady lying, he must have taken lessons from Armstrong. Then after Brady retires, he will take lessons from Armstrong again on how to, not just admit wrongdoing, but how to market it. I expect a book by Brady on this after he retires.

On another note, SEA coach Cable has blasted college football for putting out fundamentally deficient players at a number of positions, including QB, WR, OL, and RB. And mostly because of the spread offenses and lack of training being done at the college level to get players pro-ready. Check it out here:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...lege-offenses-really-really-bad-fundamentally. I pretty much have to agree. Which hints as to why Cable is willing to draft mean DL college players and spend the time necessary to convert them to OL, since Cable knows he will have to retrain OL draft picks on so many of the fundamentals anyway. He also says many college QBs are fundamentally weak at reading defenses.
 
Jul 27, 2010
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It's also been pointed out that if Brady misses the first four games (probably reduced to two after appeal), he will be fresher for the post-season, the games that really matter. They Pats do pretty well without Brady, remember the year he missed the entire season they went 11-5.

The only valid argument against the suspension I’ve seen is that other teams/players have broken rules and haven’t been penalized as much. I think the main problem is that the NFL has not specifically stated the penalties for various infractions ahead of time, leaving it up to precedent to decide. Imagine what bike racing would be if every time someone tested positive, the length of the suspension varied. That’s somewhat the way the NFL works, even with PEDs, let alone other kinds of cheating.

But the notion that Brady didn’t know, approve and basically instigate this is BS. The notion that the Colts balls were less deflated, as mentioned in one of Blutto’s links, is also BS. They were inflated to 0.5 PSI more than the Patriot balls at the beginning of the game, because that’s the way Luck wanted them. They lost an average 0.5 PSI after being outside in the first half, then being brought inside to be tested—vs. an average 1.2 PSI loss by the Pat’s balls. Because the Colts balls were still at the 12.5 minimum, at least with one of the gauges, no air was added to them, but they were completely legal in that they had all the air that they had at the start of the game.

There was a problem, not mentioned in any of the discussions I’ve seen (maybe Wells mentions it, I didn’t read his entire report), that the balls were tested indoors after being outside, which means how long a period elapses between when they were taken inside and when they were tested is critical. If you’re going to compare different balls, they should all be tested at the same temperature, which means they should either be tested outside, or inside after being allowed to equilibrate. But we know the balls did not equilibrate completely, because of the 0.5 PSI loss by the Colts balls. If they had recovered to the inside temperature, they should have read at the same pressure as at the start of the game.

However, if you look at the table in the report, which lists the half-time inflation values of the balls in what I’m pretty sure is the order they were tested, there is no indication of higher PSI values for the balls that were checked later. So apparently they were tested quickly relative to the time of equilibration, meaning that each ball was at about the same temperature when tested. Still, it’s a sloppy way of doing it.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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Merckx index said:
It's also been pointed out that if Brady misses the first four games (probably reduced to two after appeal), he will be fresher for the post-season, the games that really matter. They Pats do pretty well without Brady, remember the year he missed the entire season they went 11-5.

The only valid argument against the suspension I’ve seen is that other teams/players have broken rules and haven’t been penalized as much. I think the main problem is that the NFL has not specifically stated the penalties for various infractions ahead of time, leaving it up to precedent to decide. Imagine what bike racing would be if every time someone tested positive, the length of the suspension varied. That’s somewhat the way the NFL works, even with PEDs, let alone other kinds of cheating.

But the notion that Brady didn’t know, approve and basically instigate this is BS. The notion that the Colts balls were less deflated, as mentioned in one of Blutto’s links, is also BS. They were inflated to 0.5 PSI more than the Patriot balls at the beginning of the game, because that’s the way Luck wanted them. They lost an average 0.5 PSI after being outside in the first half, then being brought inside to be tested—vs. an average 1.2 PSI loss by the Pat’s balls. Because the Colts balls were still at the 12.5 minimum, at least with one of the gauges, no air was added to them, but they were completely legal in that they had all the air that they had at the start of the game.

There was a problem, not mentioned in any of the discussions I’ve seen (maybe Wells mentions it, I didn’t read his entire report), that the balls were tested indoors after being outside, which means how long a period elapses between when they were taken inside and when they were tested is critical. If you’re going to compare different balls, they should all be tested at the same temperature, which means they should either be tested outside, or inside after being allowed to equilibrate. But we know the balls did not equilibrate completely, because of the 0.5 PSI loss by the Colts balls. If they had recovered to the inside temperature, they should have read at the same pressure as at the start of the game.

However, if you look at the table in the report, which lists the half-time inflation values of the balls in what I’m pretty sure is the order they were tested, there is no indication of higher PSI values for the balls that were checked later. So apparently they were tested quickly relative to the time of equilibration, meaning that each ball was at about the same temperature when tested. Still, it’s a sloppy way of doing it.

....sloppy eh?....so to put this into a slightly different frame of reference, wondering how you would assess the validity of an outcome of a scientific/medical type study that used the same type of sloppy protocol/methodology.....because, as you stated, the methodology used here was quite sloppy...to the point of trying hard to figure what the point of this brouhaha really was....

...and...

"The shoddy reporting on the “scandal” has made matters worse. For instance, if you ask almost anyone which team – the New England Patriots or the Indianapolis Colts – played most of the game using under-inflated footballs, nearly everyone would say the Patriots. But the real answer is the Colts, who used footballs under the 12.5 psi minimum in both the first half and the second half."

...and...

"Few people also know what touched off the “incriminating” text messages between the two locker room attendants about football air pressure. It was an illegal act committed not by the Patriots but by NFL officials who over-inflated Patriot footballs for an important divisional game against the New York Jets on Oct. 16, 2014.

After the game, which the Patriots won 27-25, blocking a last-second field goal attempt by the Jets, Brady complained bitterly to John Jastremski, an equipment assistant responsible for preparing the game balls. When Jastremski tested the balls, he found them to be extremely over-inflated, beyond the legal upper limit of 13.5 psi.

“The refs *** us,” Jastremski wrote in a text message, “a few of them were at almost 16” psi. “They didnt recheck them after they put air in them.” In other words, NFL officials violated NFL rules regarding the proper inflation of footballs and it could have contributed to a Patriots loss to a hated rival."

...and...

"Since the Colts were alleging that the pressure of one Patriot football that had been intercepted before halftime weighed below the minimum level of 12.5 pounds per square inch, NFL officials rushed all 11 remaining Patriot game balls into the referees’ locker room and began testing them, finding the balls to be significantly below the 12.5 psi minimum where they were set before the game began. The referees then added air pressure to bring the balls back to legal standards.

After testing the Patriots’ balls, NFL officials turned to the Colts’ footballs, but only had time to test four before the 13.5-minute halftime break ended and the balls had to be returned to the sidelines for the second half.

Of the Colts’ four tested balls, all had lost air pressure when compared to the 13.0 psi that Colts’ quarterback Andrew Luck preferred but not as much as the Patriots’ balls had. However, Exponent scientists noted that much – and possibly all – of that discrepancy could be explained by the fact the Colts’ balls were tested toward the end of halftime.

Also, one of the four measurements was apparently taken down incorrectly, leaving only three reliable halftime tests on the Colts’ balls.

Further uncertainty was injected by the fact that the two gauges used by NFL officials at halftime recorded different measurements, off by a third to nearly one-half psi, and it wasn’t clear which gauge was used to test the balls before the game. According to Exponent, the lower of the two gauges – referred to in the report as the “non-logo gauge” – was the accurate gauge and was most likely used by referee Walt Anderson in his pre-game measurements.

Colts’ Underinflated Balls

Ironically, however, if the data from the accurate gauge is used, all three Colts’ balls were themselves underinflated, averaging 12.27 psi, thus below the 12.5 psi minimum, but nevertheless those balls were allowed back in the game for the second half.

At the end of the game, four balls from the Colts and four from the Patriots were tested again. Three of the four Colts’ balls were underinflated while none of the Pats’ balls were. In other words, while the Patriots’ footballs were deflated in the first half, the Colts’ balls were deflated in both the first half and second half.

Another possible factor why the Pats’ balls tested relatively lower in psi could have been the way the balls were prepared before the game. The Pats’ balls were rubbed down to remove any slickness while the Colts’ balls were left slicker or more water resistant. One of the findings by the Exponent scientists was that wetter balls recovered their psi more slowly than drier balls when brought into a climate-controlled environment.

It also turns out that an initial claim by an NFL official in a letter to the Patriots – that one of the Pats’ balls had been measured at 10.1 psi, 2.4 psi below the minimum, and that the Colts’ balls all met specifications – was false. The letter stated: “In fact, one of the game balls was inflated to 10.1 psi, far below the requirement of 12½ to 13½ psi. In contrast, each of the Colts’ game balls that was inspected met the requirements set forth above.”

In excusing these errors, Wells wrote that the NFL official who wrote the letter drafted it “based on communications with colleagues with first-hand knowledge of events that had taken place at Gillette Stadium. In fact, none of the Patriots game balls measured 10.1 psi when they were tested at halftime. We believe that there was an inadvertent error in communication of the results …"

Cheers
 
Jul 27, 2010
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Sure, the Wells report does not meet the standard for a scientific publication. But for a preponderance of evidence case, I don't see that it needs to.

The two gauges differed significantly, a scientific study would never countenance that, but the difference was consistent, so the differences between the two teams' balls are pretty clear. You can compare the balls using either gauge, and the differences stand out. As pointed out in the report, they're significant.

The line that the Colts balls were less deflated than the Patriots balls is true for the second half, because their pressure was judged consistent with what they had started out as, considering the temperatures during the game. Some of the balls were below 12.5, but not by much, and this would be expected, given that they started at 13, and were out in the cold. The Pats balls were slightly more inflated during the second half, but they put themselves in that position by deflating them at the start of the game and forcing the refs to inflate them more at half time. If they had been in the low 12 range, like the Colts' balls, the officials would have left them alone. The air in the Pats balls at that point was probably still a little below room temperature, so getting them up to 12.5 required more air than would have been needed when they were inflated before the game after equilibrating at room temperature.

And this, IMO, is the essence of the problem. While there is a standard pressure range allowed, apparently 12.5-13.5, this is the pressure as measured indoors. First, depending on the indoor temperature, that will vary somewhat. But the really big problem is that if the balls are taken outside on a cold day, they will deflate a lot. There's been a lot of talk how the Vikings and Panthers were not penalized for warming the balls, which is against the rules, on a really cold day last December. But if it was a really cold day, the pressure in the balls would have been far lower than the minimum allowed when measured at room temperature. The teams should have been allowed either to warm the balls or put more air in them; otherwise they're dealing with balls far more deflated than those played in most other NFL games.

If you have a standard range allowed, and that is at room temperature, there will be huge variations on the field, depending on outside temperature. This doesn't make sense. The balls should be tested outside, and if the temperature drops during the game, they should be re-tested. The pressure range should be specified at the ambient outdoor temperature.

The only problem I see with that is that on a really cold day, when the balls are taken inside at halftime, their pressure will go way up, maybe as high as 15-16. I don't know if that affects their integrity or not. Maybe they would have to be left outside. But to repeat, if you're going to insist on a standard pressure range, that range should exist under the conditions in which the games are actually played, not in the locker room.

I personally don't care whether Brady gets suspended or not. His reputation has taken a hit, and deservedly so. If, as the pushback story goes, air pressure is not a big deal, other teams have done it without big penalties, then why did Brady lie about it at the press conference in January? At that time, there was no big cry from fans about how serious the charge was, everyone was mostly bemused at the time. And ss Alpe pointed out, if he'd come clean, no way would he have been suspended for the SB. The fact that he lied indicates to methat the players do regard inflation level as a big deal, a way of getting an edge, and also understand that tampering with the balls is a serious infraction.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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"The only problem I see with that is that on a really cold day, when the balls are taken inside at halftime, their pressure will go way up, maybe as high as 15-16. I don't know if that affects their integrity or not. Maybe they would have to be left outside. But to repeat, if you're going to insist on a standard pressure range, that range should exist under the conditions in which the games are actually played, not in the locker room."

... as you say, a more reasonable standard should be devised to deal with the problems of pressure in indoor vs outdoor conditions...read a more better testing procedure is required...

....curious, what exactly was Brady's lie?...I unfortunately missed it ( maybe because I wasn't paying attention at the time )...and wonder what the issue they were dancing away from was exactly, a deviation from the rules or a PR hit...

...and btw truth be known I'm not really a fan of Brady or the NE organization, in fact quite the opposite, but I'm even less a fan of the NFL governing body and the way it operates/has operated...this whole thing stinks and the way it has been handled simply ups the stink factor...

...and yes, the situation, as it presently stands, has the NFL "winning" in the court of public opinion, and in their shoddy kangaroo court...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"ESPN.com

NFL fans, by nearly a 2-1 margin, support the league's sanctions against New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady and the team, and more than half think Brady himself cheated in what has become known as "Deflategate."

The ESPN/ABC News poll found that 63 percent of all fans surveyed, and 76 percent of self-described "avid" fans, supported the NFL's decision to suspend Brady for four games, fine the Patriots $1 million and take away a first round and fourth round draft pick from the team for their involvement in the using underinflated footballs during a January playoff game. In addition, 54 percent of all fans and 69 percent of avid fans think Brady "cheated," while 52 percent overall and 63 percent of avid fans think, regardless of Brady's actions, the Patriots cheated."

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....but that "winning" edge is not really that overwhelming ( a sizeable minority is in opposition, and this despite the NFL's best efforts, and those of the shrieking sports " journalism" crowd )....will be interesting if that edge will be maintained if and when this case is "tried" in a circumstance where a higher standard of proof, read better methodology, will be required, like in a court of law....at that point the NFL position could well be deemed much more stinky....and this stink would then hang over the sport as a whole....there may well be no winners in this mess and that in the end may become the biggest problem for the game itself...and btw see below an interesting other bit from the poll article quoted above...

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" The poll also found that 85 percent of all fans, and 80 percent of avid fans, think that other teams do similar things. Only six percent of all fans, and 12 percent of avid fans, think it was limited to the Patriots."

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....so the bottom line is a vast majority see the game as fundamentally a cheating enterprise ( note difference btwn fans and avid fans )....so is pushing this deflategate issue to the front of the line really a smart move especially given the way it has been played out by the NFL....




Cheers
 
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Three other aspects to this entire issue come to my mind:

1. If it really was a big issue, what is the NFL going to do about it? From what I can tell, they will rely on the officials to somehow pay closer attention to the ball inflation. That's it. If the NFL really wanted to do something, and it really was a big problem to them, they would have a much more direct rule change. Such as all balls are to be put under lock and key after checked by officials. Or, they would have simply said each side plays with the same ball. But no word on that.

2. I don't quite get the fine. How did the NFL come up with $1m? From what I understand, the most the NFL can fine a team for a rule infraction is $10k a pop. So the most they should have fined the Pats is $110,000 (or $10k times 11 balls), which is what was being discussed over the winter. Is the other $900k for Brady lying about it? And Wells wasn't even 100% sure he lied, he was just evasive, coy, and non-cooperative. Is that worth a $900k fine to the team?

3. While I saw the above poll numbers, does what Brady did really amount to a 4 game suspension without pay? Recall when the NFL found out about Ray Rice, their first reaction was to suspend him for 2 games. So let me get this straight, pushing your equipment guys and encouraging them into deflating the balls under the limit gets you a 4 game suspension, but you beat your wife and it's 2 games. Got it.

I'm reminded by what Merckx said about comparing this to doping in cycling. As corrupted as the UCI has been, at least their rules are more clear on punishment. The NFL makes it's rules up often as they go. They didn't put much forethought into this, so now they're left scrambling. And with Goodell with overriding power over everything, who's to say where it ends?

I'll say what I did before, Goodell gets props for the latest CBA and resolving the lockout to almost everyone's liking, and a long-term deal. That was big. But that's about it. Compare him to Pete Rozell who really grew the league into something amazing, or even Paul Tagliabue, and he pales in comparison, appearing autocratic and unprepared. Mark Cuban may be right in that the pigs have gotten fat, and the hogs will get slaughtered, and in a decade the NFL will really struggle from hubris and arrogance. If this is so, it's going to fall greatly on Goodell, and a large part of it is because of inconsistent leadership and inconsistent rulings like deflategate (or Bountygate or Ray Rice for that matter).
 
Jul 4, 2009
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....not to beat the dead horse again....but heck I got nothin' else to do....find below another exception to the shriekfest that has consumed the world of sports "journalism" over the last couple of days ( kinda reminds of the run-up to the last war on Iraq for its objectivity )....

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/this-is-how-the-nfl-let-deflate-gate-get-so-out-of-control-and-ridiculous-200459796.html

...wherein it says stuff like....

"Still, at this point it's worth contemplating the totality of evidence, as Wells likes to write. And what's apparent is deflate-gate was more misdemeanor than felony, a molehill that commissioner Roger Goodell's office turned into a mountain via incompetence, vengeance or both. "

...and...

""It's not ISIS," Tom Brady said back in January.

Wells should have focused on that line rather than whine about Brady not handing over electronic communication that may not exist (did he expect to find a confessional email chain with BBelichick@Patriots.com?)."

....and...

"Start with this: the story didn't go big until ESPN reported about 24 hours after the game that the NFL had discovered that 11 of the 12 footballs were measured to be more than 2 pounds per square inch below the league minimum of 12.5.

That gave a subject that almost no one knew much about context, significance and potentially sinister intent. ESPN cited a nebulous "league source" at a time when it's believed no one outside the NFL office knew the actual measurements

Of course, that story wasn't true. It wasn't even close to true. Wells' report showed that none of the footballs, each measured twice, were that underinflated.

At that very moment, the NFL had to know the story wasn't true. Yet it did nothing.

So the league either created a fake story that was extremely prejudicial to the Patriots by leaking inaccurate information or someone else did it and the league office let it run wild rather than correct it with the actual air pressure measurements. It's tough to figure out which scenario is worse for Goodell."

...and...

"There is probably no report without that demonstrably false ESPN story. What would be the point?

Goodell could have looked at the pressure levels, saw that in the context of natural weather-related deflation it was fairly insignificant, doled out some kind of fine or even sanction and killed the kerfuffle in its tracks. It would have saved his league from all sorts of negative headlines and conspiracy theories.

A good commissioner would've done just that. He's supposed to "protect the shield," not provide talk radio fodder. There is just no way Adam Silver, Paul Tagliabue or David Stern lets this go down.

Even more bizarre, an NFL senior vice president emailed a letter to the Patriots stating that "one of the game balls was inflated to 10.1 psi … [and] in contrast each of the Colts game balls that was inspected met the requirements."

Those assertions were untrue."

....all I can say is, Roger,you're doing a heckuva job....

Cheers
 
Jul 27, 2010
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The Patriots issued a 20,000 word rebuttal to the Wells report. Boy, someone got assigned to that very fast, and must have worked day and night to get it out so fast.

Here is one of the key points they make:

The Ideal Gas Law, according to the League’s consultants, establishes that the psi of the Patriots footballs at halftime would have been 11.32 to 11.52 due solely to the temperature impact on the footballs. (pg. 113). With the Logo gauge, 8 of the 11 Patriots footballs are in the Ideal Gas Law range and the average of all 11 Patriots footballs was 11.49 — fully consistent with the Ideal Gas Law’s prediction of exactly what that psi would be.

There were two gauges, one of which measured 0.35-0.40 PSI higher than the other. The Pats argue that if one uses the readings from the gauge that measured higher, the pressure was in the right range given the temperature.

Here’s the problem with that argument. If one applies the same reasoning to the Colts’ balls, using only the higher-reading gauge, they averaged 12.70, just slightly below the 13.0 they started out at. No matter how you twist the argument, the Colts’s balls lost much less air. The Patriots’s rebuttal ignores that.

The argument based on the Ideal Gas Law can’t be used, because though we may know what the temperature on the field was, we don’t know what the temperature of the air in the balls was after they were brought into the locker room at half-time and measured. Based on the readings of the Colts’ balls, they had warmed considerably.

The referees should have measured the pressure in all of the Colts' balls, not just four. If they had, this point would have been much more convincing, but the difference between the two teams is still significant. Also, not mentioned much is that the variability in pressure among the Pats balls was much greater than that of the Colts balls. This is consistent with someone leaking air out of them, since then they would start the game not all at the same level. This difference in variation was not significant, mostly because only four Colts' balls had been tested. If all twelve had, and that difference had held up, that would have been another powerful argument that the Pats' balls were deflated.

There are other holes in the rebuttal. The Patriots claim there is no evidence that the two attendants deflated the balls or did anything wrong. Yet both were suspended indefinitely without pay, and both have been barred from having anything to do with preparation of the balls during the 2015 season. That sure sounds as though the Patriots think they're guilty.

Then there is the claim that there is no evidence against Brady. First, if the attendants are guilty, and McNally did deflate the balls, Brady definitely knew. Second, when the story first broke, Brady claimed he didn't even know the names of the attendants. Yet at the same time he was calling and texting them, referring to one of them as "Jonny Boy", and "just checking to see how you are". If Brady had nothing to do with this, why would he suddenly show such interest in someone he had formerly completely ignored?
 
Jul 4, 2009
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"There are other holes in the rebuttal. The Patriots claim there is no evidence that the two attendants deflated the balls or did anything wrong. Yet both were suspended indefinitely without pay, and both have been barred from having anything to do with preparation of the balls during the 2015 season. That sure sounds as though the Patriots think they're guilty"

....correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the attendants suspended at the behest of the NFL....so exactly what do the Pats have to do with that..

...as for the difference btwn pressures some commentators have suggested that could well be the result of the relative timing of the measurements ( the Colts balls were measured at the very end of the measuring process and therefore more likely to be at a higher temp ) and the way the Pat's ball were rubbed down before they entered the game( btw a legal procedure that apparently contributes to increased pressure loss over time )....if those two factors are indeed correct they should be taken into account when deciding what actually produced the pressure differences ( read, it may be more than just simply applying the Gas Law )...so it could well be that the Colt balls did not lose air as much as they produced more pressure due to be relatively warmer....

....as for knowing the given and or proper names vs knowing the nicknames....given the way its presented this sounds like a gotcha thingee akin to the toilet/urinal gotcha "evidence"...and given the circumstances not really surprised Brady could suddenly get to "know" the attendants, they were, after all, suddenly key players in a rather important matter...

....will wait until this whole affair is subject to examination in a situation where a methodology is used that is much more rigorous and one party is not judge jury and executioner before making a definitive conclusion ( read, I'm not a fan of kangaroo courts, especially ones run by Goodell, who has shown himself to be an incompetent fool, no matter how potentially odious or hateable the accused is )....until then the discussion continues...

Cheers
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Well, suck it up, because none other than Goodell is overseeing Brady's appeal. His reasoning may be based on whatever he had for breakfast that morning, or what his latest bonus check from the owners was.

Agree there is no way Taglibue would have gotten his hands dirty like this. He would have made some quick phone calls, "take care of this", and it would have soon been resolved, before it blew up in the media and blogosphere and turned into a circus.

There's no doubt that Brady knew who the guys were by name, the texts the two guys turned over made that fairly clear. This is the one area where Tom clearly lied as I see it.

As to the Patriots rebuttal, what comes off as farcical at times, I find this once again is really something about hubris and arrogance. It really is Watergate all over. The same way with Tom, really. If Tom had just taken full accountability up front, saying, "Every QB likes the balls a certain way before games, I am already on record for liking the balls slightly underinflated. The first half of this game my equipment guys over did it, and it's on me. I take full responsibility for it." He says something akin to that, and very little would have happened. Oh there would have been a whirlwind for a couple days, but as I said before, no way the NFL suspends him for the Super Bowl, and it pretty much would have blown over soon after. Now, just like Nixon, it's the cover up and lies that are getting to them.

Let's look at it another way. Andy Pettite and Roger Clemons in baseball. Both get named in the Mitchell report. Andy apologizes. Serves a short suspension, and is welcomed back. Probably will delay any chance he gets into the Hall on borderline numbers anyway, but otherwise, he's fairly well admired to this day. Clemons on the other hand was combative, bitter, and looked like a thug and liar, and is roundly held today as a pariah. The far better pitcher of the two, it's unlikely he will ever get into the Hall, certainly not for many years at the soonest.
 
Jul 27, 2010
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Re:

blutto said:
"

....correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the attendants suspended at the behest of the NFL....so exactly what do the Pats have to do with that..

No, the Patriots did this as soon as the Wells report came out. It's true that the NFL has to approve of their reinstatement, and it was the NFL who decreed they can't be involved in ball preparation. And probably the NFL would have suspended them if the Pats hadn't. But the team did not act on Brady, waiting for Goodell to make a decision, and they could have waited for McNally and Jastremski, in a show of support for them. But they didn't.

...as for the difference btwn pressures some commentators have suggested that could well be the result of the relative timing of the measurements ( the Colts balls were measured at the very end of the measuring process and therefore more likely to be at a higher temp )

Yes, but there was no indication of higher pressures in the Patriots balls that were measured later vs. earlier. The last balls measured had some of the lowest pressures. I would like to know, though, exactly how much time after the balls were brought in elapsed before measurements started, and how long the measuring process took. My understanding is everything occurred within about thirteen minutes. I don't think it would take anywhere near that long to measure the pressure in all the balls, I think they were all done within a few minutes, but I don't actually know what the time sequence was, and I don't think it's been mentioned.

....will wait until this whole affair is subject to examination in a situation where a methodology is used that is much more rigorous and one party is not judge jury and executioner before making a definitive conclusion ( read, I'm not a fan of kangaroo courts, especially ones run by Goodell, who has shown himself to be an incompetent fool, no matter how potentially odious or hateable the accused is )....until then the discussion continues...

Unfortunately, this will be a kangaroo court, as I understand it. I can't see Goodell reversing the decision, it would make him and the NFL look even worse, it that is possible. He might reduce it, though. Whatever decision he makes, it will have very little to do with the evidence, and mostly how he feels it will make him and the NFL look. I don't think we're going to see any more rigorous discussion during the appeal. Both sides will bring up their points, but I think everything we can know is already out there.