National Football League

[jmdirt]

On my way home from the Y this AM, ESPN radio had one of the draft "experts" on, and he had some very interesting things to say about the Ohio State duo of Elliott and Miller. He is pretty sure that Elliott will go top 10 because of the way he can block in addition to running and catching the ball. He thinks that Miller will go in the first round because he is such an athletic and versatile receiver, but his ace is that he thinks like a QB. Honestly, I had forgotten about Miller, but Miller could really be an asset to the right team. I still give him huge respect, not many (one maybe) starting QBs would stay with a team let alone switch positions and contribute like he did.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Not trying to dis the players, but they don't call ESPN the four-letter network for nothing. Few broadcasters and pundits have ever been employed who claim to be certain of so much, while knowing so little.

As to Sanchez, I would definitely take him over Manziel. Mark can arguably start for the right team, and maybe that team is Denver. If not start, he would make for a solid back-up without question. Manziel doesn't belong in the NFL. Even when sober, and at his best, he only showed brief flashes of being able to excel. But you could arguably say that about another Browns QB over the last couple of years, Connor Shaw. Think about that for a moment.

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

Not trying to dis the players, but they don't call ESPN the four-letter network for nothing. Few broadcasters and pundits have ever been employed who claim to be certain of so much, while knowing so little.

As to Sanchez, I would definitely take him over Manziel. Mark can arguably start for the right team, and maybe that team is Denver. If not start, he would make for a solid back-up without question. Manziel doesn't belong in the NFL. Even when sober, and at his best, he only showed brief flashes of being able to excel. But you could arguably say that about another Browns QB over the last couple of years, Connor Shaw. Think about that for a moment.

No doubt ESPN is a sports tabloid, but ESPN Boise is good for local sports, and quick recaps of scores, etc. It was still on from my drive home Tuesday (I rode the moto wed-fri) and I was interested in what he had to say about the Ohio State guys. We're a samll market so I have to take what I can get.

The bold=Stephen A Smith...we know what the A stands for!

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re:

Mike Glennon is maybe being shopped, and this doesn't surprise me, he sees the field fairly well and generally makes good decisions, and played okay playing for a bad Tampa team. Foxxy had numbers on his lack of arm strength, and I don't recall him making big throws down the field or to the sidelines often either. But as a possession/west coast type QB, he could do okay in the right system. Would that system be Denver? I don't know. The upside of him isn't at the same as Kaepernick, but the downside may be lower too. But I don't really see him as a starter, or consistent starter. I'm still surprised the Broncos let Osweiller walk.

At least a team would know that Glennon would be there for the team if needed. With Manziel who knows?

I think Denver letting Osweiler go was a cap issue. In 2016 they only have about $1M in cap space, which is one of the lowest in the NFL (first place in that category is the Jets at under $50G, which is prolly one reason for lack of movement on Fitzpatrick). But you'd think Denver could have been creative because in 2017 the Broncos have a whopping and near league leading $72M in cap space.

more later

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

@ JmDirt: Correction of my bad use of double negatives (I don't think you are not missing anything Jdirt). I meant to say "I don't think you are missing anything Jdirt".

At least ESPN got one thing right. They paired Stephen "A" Smith with Skip Bayless on their "Second Take" show. It would have been a waste of time to pair Stephen with someone who actually knew something, because then it would have been like shooting fish in a fishbowl.

@ Alpe: Funny. I had never heard of that network being called the "4-letter network". Is that a media insider's term, or have I just been under a rock?

Big move for Jets & Broncs: the day after Jets tackle D'Brickershaw Ferguson retires, the Jets trade a 5th round pick to the Broncos for 4-time pro bowler LOT Ryan Clady and the Broncos 7th round pick. In the post above I said the Jets have less than $50,000 cap space. Well now the cap space freed up by Ferguson's retirement gives them about $10M cap room they can use to sign Fitzpatrick or others. In Broncos cap space, they also gain about $10M in cap room by trading Clady, which should now give them ability to sign Colin Kaepernick (before the Clady trade the Broncs only had about $1M cap room). This trade is a win-win for both teams in terms of positioning to secure a QB. It does leave the Broncos now needing a LOT, but they probably would have cut Clady anyway.

Where Fitzpatrick and Kaep end up may likely be determined by the Jets next move. I think the Broncos prefer Fitzpatrick, and if so will wait to see if the Jets now resign Fitzpatrick. And if Fitz remains a Jet, then the Broncos would likely go after Kaep. Or a less likely outcome could end up the other way around, with Kaep to NY and Fitz to Denver. As fast as the Jets moved to secure Clady after Ferguson's retirement, I won't be surprised if the Jets move quickly to nail down the QB position. But NY might get in a bidding war with Denver over Fitzpatrick because 1) Fitz is an unrestricted free agent, and 2) both teams now have just over $10M cap room where before the Ferguson retirement and trade both had $1M or less. I get the feeling the Jets may be a bit more prepared to move quickly if they had knowledge of Ferguson's retirement, which the Jets should have had.

 

[movingtarget]

@ JmDirt: Correction of my bad use of double negatives (I don't think you are not missing anything Jdirt). I meant to say "I don't think you are missing anything Jdirt".

At least ESPN got one thing right. They paired Stephen "A" Smith with Skip Bayless on their "Second Take" show. It would have been a waste of time to pair Stephen with someone who actually knew something, because then it would have been like shooting fish in a fishbowl.

@ Alpe: Funny. I had never heard of that network being called the "4-letter network". Is that a media insider's term, or have I just been under a rock?

Big move for Jets & Broncs: the day after Jets tackle D'Brickershaw Ferguson retires, the Jets trade a 5th round pick to the Broncos for 4-time pro bowler LOT Ryan Clady and the Broncos 7th round pick. In the post above I said the Jets have less than $50,000 cap space. Well now the cap space freed up by Ferguson's retirement gives them about $10M cap room they can use to sign Fitzpatrick or others. In Broncos cap space, they also gain about $10M in cap room by trading Clady, which should now give them ability to sign Colin Kaepernick (before the Clady trade the Broncs only had about $1M cap room). This trade is a win-win for both teams in terms of positioning to secure a QB. It does leave the Broncos now needing a LOT, but they probably would have cut Clady anyway.

Where Fitzpatrick and Kaep end up may likely be determined by the Jets next move. I think the Broncos prefer Fitzpatrick, and if so will wait to see if the Jets now resign Fitzpatrick. And if Fitz remains a Jet, then the Broncos would likely go after Kaep. Or a less likely outcome could end up the other way around, with Kaep to NY and Fitz to Denver. As fast as the Jets moved to secure Clady after Ferguson's retirement, I won't be surprised if the Jets move quickly to nail down the QB position. But NY might get in a bidding war with Denver over Fitzpatrick because 1) Fitz is an unrestricted free agent, and 2) both teams now have just over $10M cap room where before the Ferguson retirement and trade both had $1M or less. I get the feeling the Jets may be a bit more prepared to move quickly if they had knowledge of Ferguson's retirement, which the Jets should have had.

Some people seem to think that the Clady trade won't effect the Kaep situation. In other words he was offered what Denver thought he was worth and Kaep is not willing to take a big pay cut as he would with Denver's latest offer. Unless Denver think he is now badly needed and they are the party that have blinked first and have now decided he is worth the money he is demanding ! I would be surprised if they signed Manziel for the obvious reasons but it has not stopped other teams from signing damaged goods in the past and not feeling guilty about it. In a way I guess it is no different to signing quality players that have injury problems and hoping that they come good eventually although that scenario often backfires. But of course with Manziel you get the negative publicity and behavioral issues which are even more difficult to cope with. I think he will be seen as too much of a risk for most teams and that might be the trigger for him to clean his act up if he still wants a career in the NFL.

 

[jmdirt]

@ JmDirt: Correction of my bad use of double negatives (I don't think you are not missing anything Jdirt). I meant to say "I don't think you are missing anything Jdirt".

At least ESPN got one thing right. They paired Stephen "A" Smith with Skip Bayless on their "Second Take" show. It would have been a waste of time to pair Stephen with someone who actually knew something, because then it would have been like shooting fish in a fishbowl.

@ Alpe: Funny. I had never heard of that network being called the "4-letter network". Is that a media insider's term, or have I just been under a rock?

Big move for Jets & Broncs: the day after Jets tackle D'Brickershaw Ferguson retires, the Jets trade a 5th round pick to the Broncos for 4-time pro bowler LOT Ryan Clady and the Broncos 7th round pick. In the post above I said the Jets have less than $50,000 cap space. Well now the cap space freed up by Ferguson's retirement gives them about $10M cap room they can use to sign Fitzpatrick or others. In Broncos cap space, they also gain about $10M in cap room by trading Clady, which should now give them ability to sign Colin Kaepernick (before the Clady trade the Broncs only had about $1M cap room). This trade is a win-win for both teams in terms of positioning to secure a QB. It does leave the Broncos now needing a LOT, but they probably would have cut Clady anyway.

Where Fitzpatrick and Kaep end up may likely be determined by the Jets next move. I think the Broncos prefer Fitzpatrick, and if so will wait to see if the Jets now resign Fitzpatrick. And if Fitz remains a Jet, then the Broncos would likely go after Kaep. Or a less likely outcome could end up the other way around, with Kaep to NY and Fitz to Denver. As fast as the Jets moved to secure Clady after Ferguson's retirement, I won't be surprised if the Jets move quickly to nail down the QB position. But NY might get in a bidding war with Denver over Fitzpatrick because 1) Fitz is an unrestricted free agent, and 2) both teams now have just over $10M cap room where before the Ferguson retirement and trade both had $1M or less. I get the feeling the Jets may be a bit more prepared to move quickly if they had knowledge of Ferguson's retirement, which the Jets should have had.

I knew what you meant, no worries, I'm not a grammar cop (especially on an informal web forum).

 

[Amsterhammer]

Evidently it takes a tragedy close to home for some people to see the light. Better late than never, Sean.

http://www.wwltv.com/news/local/orleans/sean-payton-rails-against-guns-after-will-smiths-death/128665577

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Re:

Really sad story indeed.

In more negative news, it appears Josh Gordon tested positive for marijuana again last month. I don't know the details, but considering he's close to being banned for life, this isn't good no matter who administered or oversaw the test, or is ruling on his reinstatement.

I'll say one thing, which I said before, the NFL needs to stop testing for weed. It's in no way performance enhancing, it may also have a medicinal effect on pain for some players, which isn't a bad thing. If it's a problem with an individual legally, let law enforcement take care of that.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Bill Polian doubts there's any GM that wants Manziel.
https://vine.co/v/iTpWMpjeEdI
But wait. There's Elway.


Also not good for Manziel if rumors he's living with pot head Josh Gordon are true.

Edit: sad indeed.

 

[Merckx index]

More than 40 percent of retired NFL players tested with advanced scanning technology showed signs of traumatic brain injury, a much higher rate than in the general population, according to a new study of the long-term risks of playing American football.

The research, presented at an American Academy of Neurology meeting that began in Vancouver on Monday, is one of the first to provide "objective evidence" of traumatic brain injury in a large sample of National Football League veterans while they are living, said Dr. Francis X. Conidi, one of the study's authors.

In the new study, the largest of its kind, 40 living former players were given sensitive brain scans, known as diffusion tensor imaging (DTI), as well as thinking and memory tests.

"No one has ever looked at this number of (living) players before," Conidi said.

The DTI scans, which measure water flow between parts of the brain, revealed damage in 17 of the men, or 43 percent. That percentage was about three times higher than among the general population, Conidi said. Traditional MRI scans showed signs of damage in 12 ex-players, or 30 percent.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nfl-brain-idUSKCN0X82EF

This is a very important finding because a) it was carried out on living former players, not on autopsies; and b) there are data from non-players, which allow for the first time a comparison with non-players (though 40 players is still a relatively small number; I’d like to see a pool of several hundred). The evidence of injury that this scanning technique detects does not establish the presence of CTE, but any kind of injury should be taken seriously, of course, and in fact, it’s thought this kind of trauma puts one at high risk for developing CTE. I’d think a lot of current players might want to avail themselves of this technology.

Meanwhile, AZ coach Bruce Arians, whom I used to respect, is blaming mothers for discouraging their kids from playing football, and thinks they have to be converted. What an idiot.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Great find & post MerckxI. The article also made this point:

That finding suggests the constant banging that players experience during games and practices, especially those playing offensive and defensive line positions, puts them more at risk than the big hits that cause concussions, Conidi told Reuters.

I should add that those BIG hits are not nearly as frequent as the constant, less traumatic hits by line play.

Arians has it quite wrong. The game needs to change and people in the game need to accept and adapt to that. Otherwise Arians and others like him will be in the business of brainwashing mothers and kids to think the status quo is okay.

It was only a matter of time before news like this came out. But since this new test measures water flow, it cannot be used on the dead to validate the procedure. The medical industry needs to find a way to positively link results to CTE.

 

[jmdirt]

More than 40 percent of retired NFL players tested with advanced scanning technology showed signs of traumatic brain injury, a much higher rate than in the general population, according to a new study of the long-term risks of playing American football.

The research, presented at an American Academy of Neurology meeting that began in Vancouver on Monday, is one of the first to provide "objective evidence" of traumatic brain injury in a large sample of National Football League veterans while they are living, said Dr. Francis X. Conidi, one of the study's authors.

In the new study, the largest of its kind, 40 living former players were given sensitive brain scans, known as diffusion tensor imaging (DTI), as well as thinking and memory tests.

"No one has ever looked at this number of (living) players before," Conidi said.

The DTI scans, which measure water flow between parts of the brain, revealed damage in 17 of the men, or 43 percent. That percentage was about three times higher than among the general population, Conidi said. Traditional MRI scans showed signs of damage in 12 ex-players, or 30 percent.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nfl-brain-idUSKCN0X82EF

This is a very important finding because a) it was carried out on living former players, not on autopsies; and b) there are data from non-players, which allow for the first time a comparison with non-players (though 40 players is still a relatively small number; I’d like to see a pool of several hundred). The evidence of injury that this scanning technique detects does not establish the presence of CTE, but any kind of injury should be taken seriously, of course, and in fact, it’s thought this kind of trauma puts one at high risk for developing CTE. I’d think a lot of current players might want to avail themselves of this technology.

Meanwhile, AZ coach Bruce Arians, whom I used to respect, is blaming mothers for discouraging their kids from playing football, and thinks they have to be converted. What an idiot.

I'll have time to read the report later, and maybe answer my own question, but what is "general population", and how many people from the general population have they tested? Obviously I know the general definition of general population, but for their data did they specifically test people just for this? Did they test people who came in to their office for other reasons? Did they test people who came into emergency rooms?

EDIT: I still question what general population means. What research are they using? While I'm sure that NFL players likely have more brain damage than other people, I need more than a vague "higher than the general population" statement. Plus, as MI points out the sample of NFL players is too small. Maybe a larger group would have much higher or much lower rates. Maybe mountain bikers, or people who ride dirt bikes have a higher than the general population rate as well. Or do those two groups fall into the GP group (everyone but NFL players).

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

It what has to be a peculiar bit of Karma, the Rams have traded the farm away to get the #1 pick in the draft, which means Carson Wentz. If you ask me, this is an outstanding coup for the Titans. They get:

Rams' 2016 first-round pick (15)
Both Rams' 2016 second-round picks
Rams' 2016 third-round pick (that's four picks in the first three rounds)
Rams' 2017 first-round pick
Rams 2017 third-round pick

The Rams get Carson Wentz, who has never played a down in the NFL. He's never even played against a top NCAA defense, really. Most of his numbers were piled up in a fairly small ND college, and division. He seems to have all the physical attributes of an NFL quarterback. He apparently showed extremely well in private practices, interviews, and did well at both the Combine, and his Pro Day. Is that enough to start him from game 1? What about later? Leading them to the promised land?

The team this now leaves in a bind is Cleveland. They are left picking Jared Goff, who as I see it may not fit their system, and isn't likely worthy of a #2 pick in the draft. But it also puts Cleveland in a position to deal the pick away (to SF? Philly?).

But the winner here is still Tennessee. People said Jon Robinson and the team were bluffing when they said they had substantial offers, and that he was maybe out of his league. How wrong they were. They now have draft picks at a high order to take, or trade, and build up a team around a franchise QB they already have.

But I can't say the Rams are a loser here. They get a face for their franchise. It's a risk. But they have a solid coach who is no-nonsense, and doesn't make many stupid decisions. And having Wentz as a face to lead them into the future will help sell a of seats. Far more than Case Keenum or Nick Foles would. Even if Keenum or Foles end up starting at the first of the season, or filling in if Wentz starts to struggle and needs to sit and learn.

 

[jmdirt]

When I heard this on the radio this AM my first thought was WTH?! But the Rams new LA home requires a FLASH so the move alone gets them that. If their pick plays well that will be icing on thew cake, and who knows maybe the beginning of great things. Don't be surprised if they take Goff since he is a Cal kid

The Titans seem to get the best deal here, but we'll see how their picks pan out (they certainly have better odds now).

I think that Cle is banking on GRIII at least for now.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

It is probably safe to say if this trade does not work out for the Rams, HC Jeff Fisher may be on the unemployment line this time next year.

 

[movingtarget]

Some sources are saying that the Kaep deal with Denver is basically done and will be announced in the next few weeks. Probably tinkering with his contract which I understand will include bonuses and incentive payments. I think it's just a matter of time and it's obvious now that Kaep for all of the talk about the coach and management wanting him at the 49ers, wants to move on. There seems to be some issues and bad blood that will probably surface later. Not to say he won't have to compete for the job at Denver either especially after such a poor season and a couple of operations. But many don't see Sanchez as the starting QB at Denver not in the long term anyway.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

It what has to be a peculiar bit of Karma, the Rams have traded the farm away to get the #1 pick in the draft, which means Carson Wentz. If you ask me, this is an outstanding coup for the Titans. They get:

Rams' 2016 first-round pick (15)
Both Rams' 2016 second-round picks
Rams' 2016 third-round pick (that's four picks in the first three rounds)
Rams' 2017 first-round pick
Rams 2017 third-round pick

The Rams get Carson Wentz, who has never played a down in the NFL. He's never even played against a top NCAA defense, really. Most of his numbers were piled up in a fairly small ND college, and division. He seems to have all the physical attributes of an NFL quarterback. He apparently showed extremely well in private practices, interviews, and did well at both the Combine, and his Pro Day. Is that enough to start him from game 1? What about later? Leading them to the promised land?

The team this now leaves in a bind is Cleveland. They are left picking Jared Goff, who as I see it may not fit their system, and isn't likely worthy of a #2 pick in the draft. But it also puts Cleveland in a position to deal the pick away (to SF? Philly?).

But the winner here is still Tennessee. People said Jon Robinson and the team were bluffing when they said they had substantial offers, and that he was maybe out of his league. How wrong they were. They now have draft picks at a high order to take, or trade, and build up a team around a franchise QB they already have.

But I can't say the Rams are a loser here. They get a face for their franchise. It's a risk. But they have a solid coach who is no-nonsense, and doesn't make many stupid decisions. And having Wentz as a face to lead them into the future will help sell a of seats. Far more than Case Keenum or Nick Foles would. Even if Keenum or Foles end up starting at the first of the season, or filling in if Wentz starts to struggle and needs to sit and learn.

All of the QB hype seems to be about Wentz at the moment not Goff. Paxton Lynch and few others seem to have fallen off the radar but the 49ers are still talking about Connor Cooke who seems to be another problem child and will be picked by a team who does not mind taking risks based on his past behavior. Obviously there is a lot of disinformation and bluffing going on between teams at the moment re the draft.

 

[Merckx index]

Well, this is interesting. A study on retired NFL players was published almost two years ago, using DTI and some other scanning techniques. They initially contacted about 5000 former players, but ended up studying only 45. There were some abnormalities found, but on the whole, most of the players seemed to have normal brains.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4137679/

Also, it seems like defining normal is very tricky in these studies, depending on the statistical approach used, one may or may not see significant differences between individuals with known minor brain trauma and control individuals.

I think the Rams are nuts. They basically gave away the farm to get an untested QB. This was the same thing Washington did to get Griffin, who was far more highly regarded coming out of college than either Goff or Wentz. And the Rams, as the team that traded their pick to Washington that year, should be more aware of that than anyone else. Washington showed signs of becoming a contender this year, but that trade set the team back years.

Someone did an analysis after the Griffin move and determined he would have to be another Brady to make it worth all the picks Washington gave up for him. I’d think it’s more or less the same with Rams. Frankly, if Andrew Luck’s chimeric twin were available in the draft this year, I don’t think I’d give up everything the Rams gave up.

Agents making news. Johnny Football’s agent says he will drop him if he doesn’t go into rehab. And Josh Gordon’s agent says that pot positive was supposed to be confidential. Still think it’s ludicrous that a player can get suspended for a drug that isn’t thought to be performance enhancing, and is legal in the state where the defending SB champion plays.

Percy Harvin says he's retiring, at the ripe old age of 27. He should rank high on those lists of so much talent, so little performance.

 

[jmdirt]

Well, this is interesting. A study on retired NFL players was published almost two years ago, using DTI and some other scanning techniques. They initially contacted about 5000 former players, but ended up studying only 45. There were some abnormalities found, but on the whole, most of the players seemed to have normal brains.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4137679/

Also, it seems like defining normal is very tricky in these studies, depending on the statistical approach used, one may or may not see significant differences between individuals with known minor brain trauma and control individuals.

I think the Rams are nuts. They basically gave away the farm to get an untested QB. This was the same thing Washington did to get Griffin, who was far more highly regarded coming out of college than either Goff or Wentz. And the Rams, as the team that traded their pick to Washington that year, should be more aware of that than anyone else. Washington showed signs of becoming a contender this year, but that trade set the team back years.

Someone did an analysis after the Griffin move and determined he would have to be another Brady to make it worth all the picks Washington gave up for him. I’d think it’s more or less the same with Rams. Frankly, if Andrew Luck’s chimeric twin were available in the draft this year, I don’t think I’d give up everything the Rams gave up.

Agents making news. Johnny Football’s agent says he will drop him if he doesn’t go into rehab. And Josh Gordon’s agent says that pot positive was supposed to be confidential. Still think it’s ludicrous that a player can get suspended for a drug that isn’t thought to be performance enhancing, and is legal in the state where the defending SB champion plays.

Hello Tyler is that you?!

...and is likely safer than the pharma chemicals that it replaces.

 

[movingtarget]

Well, this is interesting. A study on retired NFL players was published almost two years ago, using DTI and some other scanning techniques. They initially contacted about 5000 former players, but ended up studying only 45. There were some abnormalities found, but on the whole, most of the players seemed to have normal brains.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4137679/

Also, it seems like defining normal is very tricky in these studies, depending on the statistical approach used, one may or may not see significant differences between individuals with known minor brain trauma and control individuals.

I think the Rams are nuts. They basically gave away the farm to get an untested QB. This was the same thing Washington did to get Griffin, who was far more highly regarded coming out of college than either Goff or Wentz. And the Rams, as the team that traded their pick to Washington that year, should be more aware of that than anyone else. Washington showed signs of becoming a contender this year, but that trade set the team back years.

Someone did an analysis after the Griffin move and determined he would have to be another Brady to make it worth all the picks Washington gave up for him. I’d think it’s more or less the same with Rams. Frankly, if Andrew Luck’s chimeric twin were available in the draft this year, I don’t think I’d give up everything the Rams gave up.

Agents making news. Johnny Football’s agent says he will drop him if he doesn’t go into rehab. And Josh Gordon’s agent says that pot positive was supposed to be confidential. Still think it’s ludicrous that a player can get suspended for a drug that isn’t thought to be performance enhancing, and is legal in the state where the defending SB champion plays.

Percy Harvin says he's retiring, at the ripe old age of 27. He should rank high on those lists of so much talent, so little performance.

I suppose if they retire young with some cash behind them and the brain has not been scrambled too much it's not such a bad thing. I saw an interview with Joe Montana recently where he said he is in pain every day. Knees are gone, back problems and so on. Even has trouble sleeping because of his football related injuries.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Re: Re:

Agree completely. Also with what Merckx said, echoing what I said about Wentz (and Goff) being untested. Wentz may look great in drills and some film against sub-par competition, but people are talking that he's the next Andrew Luck. And even Luck's had some tough times in the NFL.

I wrote a few times about this mental phenomenon. Teams become enamored with players and remove much objectivity in their emotional hope that the player will pan out. They see these young, physically gifted QB's as players who have never failed in the NFL, where as a player who may have similar talent, plus experience, but has "failed" in attempts in the NFL, is out of consideration. Some teams understand this, but many don't.

For example. Are Wentz and Goff likely equal to, or better than: Ryan Fitzpatrick? Sam Bradford? Mike Glennon? Zach Mettenberger? Drew Stanton? Mark Sanchez? Landry Jones? People forget Derek Anderson actually made it to the Pro Bowl, playing for Cleveland! All of these QBs have started, and won games for NFL teams. Often sub-par NFL teams. Teams that had about as good of a roster as the Rams, who will likely decline overall after trading away the future here.

Let's look at another player. AJ McCarron. He's played well when been in games, some of them big games. He's made some mistakes too, but shown a lot of promise as well. The Bengals say he's not for sale, but I wonder if they would have changed their tune if the Rams threw most of the same picks they did at them, that they did to get Wentz (or Goff)?

The Rams will be selling Wentz as the face of the franchise, the new. But they could also easily sell McCarron. He's an all-American kid, and well known already. They could even sell Landry Jones, if you ask me. Son of a minister, Jones is about as clean cut as it gets, and very well spoken.

NFL teams and managers see those guys as marginal, not new. With draft picks, they see hope. But they do so with a lot of blind faith, and like bad gamblers, or people who chase bad stocks, they get emotionally caught up in these decisions. History has shown that plenty of smart "experts" have made poor decisions.

Paxton Lynch and few others seem to have fallen off the radar but the 49ers are still talking about Connor Cooke who seems to be another problem child and will be picked by a team who does not mind taking risks based on his past behavior.

This illustrates my point entirely. Physically, there's not much difference between Cook and Wentz, though Wentz is maybe a little more accurate with deeper throws, though Cook has plenty of arm strength. But Cook has way more experience in big games. He played his worst in his final game against NCAA champs Alabama, but their whole team was overmatched, and spent. And word is he's a bit of a hot head and needs to grow up. People said the same thing about Cam Newton. I'd say taking Cook even late in the first round is a risk in the draft. Even the second round may be iffy. But you could easily grab him without making a trade, or a big trade.

If you look at the big picture, I'd say the risk between taking Cook with a late 1st round pick, or an early 2nd round pick, is a safer risk than trading away a heap of top draft picks in this and future years to get Wentz. I'd say this even if I needed an NFL QB, like the Rams do.

Lynch is even easier to justify than Cook. But the Rams made an emotional decision. And as I said before, this will help sell tickets.

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Re:

Agree completely. Also with what Merckx said, echoing what I said about Wentz (and Goff) being untested. Wentz may look great in drills and some film against sub-par competition, but people are talking that he's the next Andrew Luck. And even Luck's had some tough times in the NFL.

I wrote a few times about this mental phenomenon. Teams become enamored with players and remove much objectivity in their emotional hope that the player will pan out. They see these young, physically gifted QB's as players who have never failed in the NFL, where as a player who may have similar talent, plus experience, but has "failed" in attempts in the NFL, is out of consideration. Some teams understand this, but many don't.

For example. Are Wentz and Goff likely equal to, or better than: Ryan Fitzpatrick? Sam Bradford? Mike Glennon? Zach Mettenberger? Drew Stanton? Mark Sanchez? Landry Jones? People forget Derek Anderson actually made it to the Pro Bowl, playing for Cleveland! All of these QBs have started, and won games for NFL teams. Often sub-par NFL teams. Teams that had about as good of a roster as the Rams, who will likely decline overall after trading away the future here.

Let's look at another player. AJ McCarron. He's played well when been in games, some of them big games. He's made some mistakes too, but shown a lot of promise as well. The Bengals say he's not for sale, but I wonder if they would have changed their tune if the Rams threw most of the same picks they did at them, that they did to get Wentz (or Goff)?

The Rams will be selling Wentz as the face of the franchise, the new. But they could also easily sell McCarron. He's an all-American kid, and well known already. They could even sell Landry Jones, if you ask me. Son of a minister, Jones is about as clean cut as it gets, and very well spoken.

NFL teams and managers see those guys as marginal, not new. With draft picks, they see hope. But they do so with a lot of blind faith, and like bad gamblers, or people who chase bad stocks, they get emotionally caught up in these decisions. History has shown that plenty of smart "experts" have made poor decisions.

Paxton Lynch and few others seem to have fallen off the radar but the 49ers are still talking about Connor Cooke who seems to be another problem child and will be picked by a team who does not mind taking risks based on his past behavior.

This illustrates my point entirely. Physically, there's not much difference between Cook and Wentz, though Wentz is maybe a little more accurate with deeper throws, though Cook has plenty of arm strength. But Cook has way more experience in big games. He played his worst in his final game against NCAA champs Alabama, but their whole team was overmatched, and spent. And word is he's a bit of a hot head and needs to grow up. People said the same thing about Cam Newton. I'd say taking Cook even late in the first round is a risk in the draft. Even the second round may be iffy. But you could easily grab him without making a trade, or a big trade.

If you look at the big picture, I'd say the risk between taking Cook with a late 1st round pick, or an early 2nd round pick, is a safer risk than trading away a heap of top draft picks in this and future years to get Wentz. I'd say this even if I needed an NFL QB, like the Rams do.

Lynch is even easier to justify than Cook. But the Rams made an emotional decision. And as I said before, this will help sell tickets.

I can put a yes after each of your paragraphs. To take another step on what QB might be the next franchise guy, maybe all of the current buzz guys will either flop (I hope not) or become career backups, but someone like Cardele Jones, who will go 4/5th round, might become the man after a few years behind a solid vet (NE, GB?). If a team can get Cook in the 4/5th he could also be this guy. I don't think that there is a Russell Wilson lurking this year, but who knows. Chad Kelly will be the '17 draft darling. Is Jamarcus Russell still working out?

 

[Billie]

I do not understand for one bit all the hype Wentz gets. He sure looks like what most coaches want in a QB but does he actually play like a good QB? Most analysis I see doesn't go much farther than 'built like an nfl qb', 'big arm'. But is he constantly accurate? Can he move in the pocket? How does he handle pressure? That's more imporant I think and the writers I trust don't see that.

One QB I think is highly underrated after reading some analysis is Vernon Adams. He might not be build like what an NFL QB is supposed to look like but he's much more accurate than Wentz, has better movement and awareness in the pocket. I hope a team drafts him and gives him a fair chance prove his worth.

 

[Merckx index]

I suppose if they retire young with some cash behind them and the brain has not been scrambled too much it's not such a bad thing. I saw an interview with Joe Montana recently where he said he is in pain every day. Knees are gone, back problems and so on. Even has trouble sleeping because of his football related injuries.

i read an interview with Montana about ten years ago, when he was about 50 and about ten years out of the game, and he said at that point that he had had seventeen operations. His back has certainly been a major issue. He was out for a while in 1986, and there was serious concern that his career was finished; he ended up having surgery to fuse some vertebrae, which I understand virtually guarantees problems later in life. He also mentioned in that interview that he had several operations because of a problem with nerves leading to one of his eyes.

It just gets worse for Manziel. At this point, I’d think that just staying alive for another six months would be a good and better-than-expected outcome for him. We’ve seen some professional athletes and other celebrities go down the tubes, but this descent is about as fast as any I can ever recall:

According to New York Post's Emily Smith, out-of-work quarterback Johnny Manziel and his friends trashed a posh Los Angeles home they were renting and the real estate broker who discovered the damage said that there were clear signs of drug use at the house.

Manziel and a friend rented a $4.5 million house in West Hollywood for two days last week, and it sounds like it was a hell of a party. An expensive glass table was broken. So was a bathroom door. Wine stains. Cigarette burns on carpets. Kathy Griffin was there! All hell apparently broke loose.

Broker Nicholas Goodwin has demanded $32,000 from Manziel for damages, and he his lawyer spelled out the sordid details. The Post reported that "lines of suspicious white powder" were found, along with a bag of what appeared to be "magic mushrooms," or psilocybin, an illegal recreational drug.

In a letter written by Goodwin’s lawyer, Niki Ghazian, it's alleged that “Mr. Manziel threw large parties on both nights, causing extensive damage . . . Evidence suggests [Manziel] and his guests were consuming drugs and alcohol . . . and that they caused a disturbance to the neighborhood.”

That led to LAPD being called to the house on April 6. Goodwin, who arrived to the house after the two days to find it trashed and Manziel crashed on the sofa at 2 p.m., added more specific details about the drug use he believes went on at the house.

"They were supposed to check out at noon,' Goodwin told Page Six. "Manziel was passed out . . . There was cocaine all over the kitchen table, and mushrooms were still out on the table in front of him. There was booze everywhere . . . broken glasses over the floor and a Champagne glass in a tree."

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/report--johnny-manziel-trashed-posh-l-a--pad--evidence-of-drug-use-125823320.html