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Page 614 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
The Browns and 49ers also need to get results with Watson and Lance after investing so much. Watson is a known quantity but Lance has to produce more this season or he becomes just another failed project QB. He obviously needs to play a lot more football for starters. Purdy showed more in his few months than Lance showed in two seasons of mostly inactivity. If the 49ers truly still want to develop Lance it has to be now while Purdy is out injured and Lance has no distractions. He has little trade value at the moment anyway. Jimmy G has probably played his last for the 49ers and there should be some interest for him in the QB market and with the 49ers cap situation I doubt he stays put not when they have to pay Bosa and others, and won't have much left for new one year contracts to fill the roster.49ers now have to decide on a veteran back up as well. I think the Rodgers/49er talk is just that, even more so with Lamar who will will proably stay at the Ravens for squillions of dollars. Cousins to the 49ers seems just as unlikely. Pressure is back on Shanahan with the Purdy injury and Lance status. 49ers need to draft well, trouble is they don't draft till the third round but they have quite a few picks.
 
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Like I said, the problem seems to be Wilson. Slower than he was, doesn't want to get hit, losing a bit of arm strength. Plus, being short, can't see over the line. His huge ego also probably caught up to him, and there's probably some truth to all the Ciara distractions thing. Not sure Sean Payton can "fix" this. But he has to better than Hackett. If not, Sean will at least have the balls to cut Wilson after the 2023 season. I would think.
How did Wilson see over the line at Seattle? Did they run more roll-out type schemes with him? (I didn't followed him much at Seattle). Payton has to fix this - as a SB winning coach & one heck of a career coaching record, his reputation is on the line. This isn't a rebuilding process with a young, inexperienced QB that requires a couple of years to start winning. Wilson is a SB winning season veteran & future HOF making a zillion dollars.

Failure to make the playoffs this upcoming season would be a complete failure on Payton's ability to fix the problem. And the Broncos should have 3 key offensive players back that they lost for most or all of last season; Tm Patrick, 2nd rd pick Jovante Williams & All-Pro Garet Bolles. And there's franchise WR Jerry Jeudy, who's getting his injuries under control & has the potential to be that elite player that can change the dynamics of a game.

There's some talent on this offense - no excuses for Wilson.
 
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Ben Roethlesberger is a HOF quarterback? If he is, then Jim Plunkett gets in. Ben played some very clutch games, but also had several games that fell short, he was tough, but injury prone, improvised to the point of pocket collapse risks. That's hard to coach. He was also on several teams with superb defenses. But one thing is certain, Ben is not on the level of Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees. I refuse to believe that.
Ben is a sure fire HOF qb, maybe not first ballot but he will be in. The only thing I can see him being held off of coming into the HOF till down the road like TO is the sexual assault cases and the motorcycle crash incidents.
2 Super Bowl wins, 3 appearances
5th regular season yards
3rd playoff yards
8th regular season touchdown passes
7th playoff touchdowns
6th regular season completions
4th playoff touchdowns
Arguably 20-30th best quarterback of all time. All with around 18 injuries causing him to miss games and his out of work ethic on eating what he liked.
 
If Ben gets in, on the teams he was on, then Jim Plunkett deserves to get in. Similar career, though Plunkett had more bad early years in New England on worse teams, and Ben lasted longer. Zero off-field distractions from Plunkett. Otherwise, similar. Both known for coming up clutch when it mattered most more than anything.

To Ben's credit, he completely cleaned up his act when he got married, then became a father. Probably fell in love with a smart woman who simply wouldn't put up with his BS.

The Browns and 49ers also need to get results with Watson and Lance after investing so much. Watson is a known quantity but Lance has to produce more this season or he becomes just another failed project QB.
No pressure, Trey.

You are spot on about him. 100% he's the starter for next season, from pre-season, through the full season, unless he gets hurt. As you said, we saw far more from Purdy in his limited time on the team. What other option does SF have? Trade him for a mid-round pick maybe? Should be an interesting off-season for the 49ers. Bosa hinted at a team friendly contract. They have a bit of wiggle room in 2023, especially with no Purdy, and could use it to shape things up for 2024 in other positions if things don't go well. Similar to what happened in 2020.

Browns? I posted before signing Watson to that contract, and giving up those picks, was one of the most foolish deals in NFL history. It would not surprise me at all if the Browns finish in last place next season, and fire Kevin Stefanski (even though he apparently never wanted Watson in the first place). That's how owner Jimmy Haslem works.
How did Wilson see over the line at Seattle?
See: Malcom Butler.

They moved him more. The team also ran the ball fairly well, always. Remember a guy named Marshawn Lynch? Pretty good RB. :grinning: However, when they did move Russ, he was willing to run some. Often to the outside, out of bounds, stretching an extra few yards. Even scramble and get hit a little. He wasn't doing that much his last year or so in Seattle, and almost none in Denver. As I said, he seems to have lost a step, and isn't willing to get hit if he can at all avoid it.
Failure to make the playoffs this upcoming season would be a complete failure on Payton's ability to fix the problem.
And Wilson's with that contract. I have to agree, certainly from the owner's perspective. I wouldn't expect them to upend KC (who I think will win the SB, and not have a SB hangover, even if they don't win), but I would fully expect Denver to make the playoffs, even if at 10-7. No worse. The Chargers are good, but lack the depth and defense of Denver (if Wilson is any good still!), and angry Raider fans can complain all they like, but the team is rebuilding. Very poor defense. No depth at OL. If the Raiders signed Aaron Rodgers, they will still likely finish 8-9. I doubt Dave Ziegler wants him, but Mark Davis has a subtle history of making snap decisions, and might think such a signing would fill seats, sell swag, etc.
 
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If Ben gets in, on the teams he was on, then Jim Plunkett deserves to get in. Similar career, though Plunkett had more bad early years in New England on worse teams, and Ben lasted longer. Zero off-field distractions from Plunkett. Otherwise, similar. Both known for coming up clutch when it mattered most more than anything.

To Ben's credit, he completely cleaned up his act when he got married, then became a father. Probably fell in love with a smart woman who simply wouldn't put up with his BS.
In my opinion a better comparison would be Eli to Jim. We had 4 guaranteed first ballot HOFs in Brady, Peyton, Brees, and Rodgers. Ben as a HOF at some point. Arguments to be made both ways but leaning towards not on Eli, Rivers, and Ryan. How would Ben’s career have went without Brady or Peyton in the AFC? Ben is 3-2 in AFCCG, Rodgers 1-4 in NFCCG, and Brees 1-2 NFCCG. For comparison Peyton is 4-1 and Brady 10-4.
 
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Ben is a sure fire HOF qb, maybe not first ballot but he will be in. The only thing I can see him being held off of coming into the HOF till down the road like TO is the sexual assault cases and the motorcycle crash incidents.
2 Super Bowl wins, 3 appearances
5th regular season yards
3rd playoff yards
8th regular season touchdown passes
7th playoff touchdowns
6th regular season completions
4th playoff touchdowns
Arguably 20-30th best quarterback of all time. All with around 18 injuries causing him to miss games and his out of work ethic on eating what he liked.
Absolutely in the HOF! Why is he even being questioned? Big Ben's impact on the franchise is similar to the impact Bradshaw had - just go ask the Rooney's. And he probably would still be playing if he wasn't for that elbow tendon tear on this throwing arm. The guy was an absolute beast & displayed some of the greatest toughness that I've ever seen with QBs in this era.
 
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HOU needs work. I hope that they give Ryans at least three years to build.
I would hope so - at least 2 yrs. Lovie got just 1 yr but couldn't improve on the 4-13 record left by his predecessor David Culley.

This franchise is on life-support: A grand total of 11 wins in the last 3 seasons! :eek: The last good year they had was 2019 when they made the playoffs losing in the divisional round under Bill O'Brien.

This is going to be a work in progress for Ryans.
 
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In my opinion a better comparison would be Eli to Jim.
Eli Manning will 100% make the hall of fame. There are two reasons: He played in New York, where the bulk of media, and voters live. The bias towards New York teams (in all sports) is subtly apparent if you live elsewhere, then there. Plus, his last name is Manning. Those will get him in.

There was insane hype when he came into the NFL, "The Next Manning!" and New York absolutely loved the guy, overlooking all of his bad games, bad throws, bad stats. They repeatedly talk about how he won not one, but TWO Super Bowl MVPs!!!! While ignoring that it happened in games where the Giants defense held Tom Brady and the Patriots to 17, and 14 points.
Josh Sills
Some people are talking like the Eagles are losing a top guy. He played a couple plays in one single game, on special teams, blocking. That's it, all season.

Even if Purdy does need Tommy John, if SF really will put everything into Trey Lance, expecting him to play the entire season, my guess is they sign someone like Teddy Bridgewater, or Andy Dalton, and pay him $15m, instead of Jimmy $35m. That's my guess.

From what I can gather in Raider nation, Mark Davis, or the front office, was really hoping to sign Tom Brady, and thinks a QB is their solution. This leaves Rodgers (hyper expensive, would have to give up draft capital to get him) and Garappolo. If SF doesn't want Jimmy, I can see the Raiders pursuing him for sure. Even though I think it would be a mistake. I'm not sure Jimmy can make it through a season, and the Raiders ranked at or near the bottom of every stat on defense. A QB won't fix that. I'm not even sure Garappolo is any better than Carr, or Stidham for that matter. But Mark Davis has made plenty of emotional, or knee-jerk decisions in the past.
 
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Eli Manning will 100% make the hall of fame. There are two reasons: He played in New York, where the bulk of media, and voters live. The bias towards New York teams (in all sports) is subtly apparent if you live elsewhere, then there. Plus, his last name is Manning. Those will get him in.

There was insane hype when he came into the NFL, "The Next Manning!" and New York absolutely loved the guy, overlooking all of his bad games, bad throws, bad stats. They repeatedly talk about how he won not one, but TWO Super Bowl MVPs!!!! While ignoring that it happened in games where the Giants defense held Tom Brady and the Patriots to 17, and 14 points.

Some people are talking like the Eagles are losing a top guy. He played a couple plays in one single game, on special teams, blocking. That's it, all season.

Even if Purdy does need Tommy John, if SF really will put everything into Trey Lance, expecting him to play the entire season, my guess is they sign someone like Teddy Bridgewater, or Andy Dalton, and pay him $15m, instead of Jimmy $35m. That's my guess.

From what I can gather in Raider nation, Mark Davis, or the front office, was really hoping to sign Tom Brady, and thinks a QB is their solution. This leaves Rodgers (hyper expensive, would have to give up draft capital to get him) and Garappolo. If SF doesn't want Jimmy, I can see the Raiders pursuing him for sure. Even though I think it would be a mistake. I'm not sure Jimmy can make it through a season, and the Raiders ranked at or near the bottom of every stat on defense. A QB won't fix that. I'm not even sure Garappolo is any better than Carr, or Stidham for that matter. But Mark Davis has made plenty of emotional, or knee-jerk decisions in the past.
I wonder if Mark D will talk to Mayfield's people?
 
Eli Manning will 100% make the hall of fame. There are two reasons: He played in New York, where the bulk of media, and voters live. The bias towards New York teams (in all sports) is subtly apparent if you live elsewhere, then there. Plus, his last name is Manning. Those will get him in.

There was insane hype when he came into the NFL, "The Next Manning!" and New York absolutely loved the guy, overlooking all of his bad games, bad throws, bad stats. They repeatedly talk about how he won not one, but TWO Super Bowl MVPs!!!! While ignoring that it happened in games where the Giants defense held Tom Brady and the Patriots to 17, and 14 points.

Some people are talking like the Eagles are losing a top guy. He played a couple plays in one single game, on special teams, blocking. That's it, all season.

Even if Purdy does need Tommy John, if SF really will put everything into Trey Lance, expecting him to play the entire season, my guess is they sign someone like Teddy Bridgewater, or Andy Dalton, and pay him $15m, instead of Jimmy $35m. That's my guess.

From what I can gather in Raider nation, Mark Davis, or the front office, was really hoping to sign Tom Brady, and thinks a QB is their solution. This leaves Rodgers (hyper expensive, would have to give up draft capital to get him) and Garappolo. If SF doesn't want Jimmy, I can see the Raiders pursuing him for sure. Even though I think it would be a mistake. I'm not sure Jimmy can make it through a season, and the Raiders ranked at or near the bottom of every stat on defense. A QB won't fix that. I'm not even sure Garappolo is any better than Carr, or Stidham for that matter. But Mark Davis has made plenty of emotional, or knee-jerk decisions in the past.
Not sure about Stidham. Even he himself seems to accept that he is a back up and is okay with that. Sure he had a good game against the 49ers but doing that regularly is another matter. Jimmy was playing the best football of his career before his latest injury. There are worse starters out there but he won't be getting Dak money or Cousins money. Like Baker or Geno he is in the 16 to 30 million range possibly while Dalton and Baker are probably lower level but the injury issues for Jimmy have been a constant but he isn't the only like that. 49ers can't afford Rodgers anyway unless they go big in a trade and lose someone like Kittle or Deebo plus picks which isn't going to happen. Shanahan seems to think he has two talented rookies but that could also mean missing the playoffs next season unless Lance can make quick progression like Purdy but that is part of the trade off often, for a change in QBs and losing a veteran. Some people are talking about Jimmy like he isn't going to be signed by any team at all which is just nonsense.

The QB situation at many teams is going to be interesting for teams like the Buccs, Saints,Jets, Commanders, Denver for different reasons, Titans,Raiders, Tua is back for the moment at Miami,, Patriots etc......you would think that the Colts, Texans will draft one, Panthers who knows, Darnold looked pretty decent on his latest return. To think that none of these teams will be interested in Jimmy G is unlikely and he is a much cheaper option if you don't want to spend first round picks, trades and going for an elite QB especially for a team that hasn't made the playoffs for a while or is in rebuild mode. Detroit and the Jaguars did the right thing sticking with their current QBs. Both of them just needed the right coach. Not sure what happens with GB. Its probably now or never for Love just like Lance at the 49ers.
 
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I think questions become:

1) Is this QB (insert vet, or draft pick here) going to be good enough to take us to the playoffs with the good team we have, maybe even the SB?

2) Is this QB good enough to be a bridge for us, until we can find/draft our marquee QB of the future, as we focus on other key problems and issues now?

I would think Jimmy G fits into that first question. Same with Rodgers (if a team is willing to give up the mint, and future picks for him). Carr is probably this level of QB. Except he's not very mobile, and erratic in the red zone. But he is a team leader, very dedicated. Basically the exact opposite of Kyler Murray.

I think every other QB available, fit into that second category.

I also have little faith any QB in this draft will reach top tier level. Will comment on that later. Still researching.

I wonder if Mark D will talk to Mayfield's people?
Raiders are an unpredictable enigma. Both Davis, and Dave Ziegler have stated the importance of building a foundation for a winning franchise. That means defense, and the OL, more than anything. But they went out and grabbed Davonte Adams, thinking pairing him with Carr would get them to the big game. Ooops. So, this year they will? Sign Aaron Rodgers? While the team has a horrible defense? Also, Davis has a long history of saying what seems like the right thing, then making or pushing decisions at his coaches, GM, etc. It's not as bad as Jerry Jones, Daniel Snyder, Jimmy Haslem, but it's like he can't keep his fingers out of the pot.
Not sure about Stidham. Even he himself seems to accept that he is a back up and is okay with that.
I have not read that anywhere from Stidham. If he doesn't want to start, then why would the Raiders even keep him? Commitment to the Clipboard has never been the Raider way. However, there is no real reason the Raiders need to find their franchise quarterback NOW. What they really need is a huge upgrade on defense, every player except Maxx Crosby really. And they lack depth on the OL. They do that, this will help build that foundation, and allow someone like Stidham (or Mayfield for example) to be a bridge QB, until they can find their guy. Not sure Mark Davis is that patient though.

Shanahan seems to think he has two talented rookies but that could also mean missing the playoffs next season unless Lance can make quick progression like Purdy but that is part of the trade off often, for a change in QBs and losing a veteran. Some people are talking about Jimmy like he isn't going to be signed by any team at all which is just nonsense.
That last part would indeed be nonsense. If Rodgers stays at GB, or there's a trade soon, this leaves two legit starting QBs left to snag. Grappolo, and Carr.

But if Purdy doesn't need TJ, what's the certainty Lance has the starting job?

As to Love, he was one of the biggest mistake draft picks in recent years. Has barely played at all, and 2023 will be the 4th year on his rookie deal.
 
How did Wilson see over the line at Seattle? Did they run more roll-out type schemes with him? (I didn't followed him much at Seattle). Payton has to fix this - as a SB winning coach & one heck of a career coaching record, his reputation is on the line. This isn't a rebuilding process with a young, inexperienced QB that requires a couple of years to start winning. Wilson is a SB winning season veteran & future HOF making a zillion dollars.

Failure to make the playoffs this upcoming season would be a complete failure on Payton's ability to fix the problem. And the Broncos should have 3 key offensive players back that they lost for most or all of last season; Tm Patrick, 2nd rd pick Jovante Williams & All-Pro Garet Bolles. And there's franchise WR Jerry Jeudy, who's getting his injuries under control & has the potential to be that elite player that can change the dynamics of a game.

There's some talent on this offense - no excuses for Wilson.
Wilson didn't seem to miss much based on being shorter in Seattle but he was more mobile. As you noted, roll-out plays and options with Marshawn Lynch seemed to keep the pocket more open, possibly? Unless they brought blitzers from the side he always presented a risk for 20 yd. runs under pressure and could get to the edge very quickly. That option faded in his last year and a half in Seattle, along with is willingness to take direct responsibility for bad play.
His lack of running plays (or mobility) could definitely make his life in the pocket uncomfortable and affect passing in Denver.
 
I think questions become:

1) Is this QB (insert vet, or draft pick here) going to be good enough to take us to the playoffs with the good team we have, maybe even the SB?

2) Is this QB good enough to be a bridge for us, until we can find/draft our marquee QB of the future, as we focus on other key problems and issues now?

I would think Jimmy G fits into that first question. Same with Rodgers (if a team is willing to give up the mint, and future picks for him). Carr is probably this level of QB. Except he's not very mobile, and erratic in the red zone. But he is a team leader, very dedicated. Basically the exact opposite of Kyler Murray.

I think every other QB available, fit into that second category.

I also have little faith any QB in this draft will reach top tier level. Will comment on that later. Still researching.


Raiders are an unpredictable enigma. Both Davis, and Dave Ziegler have stated the importance of building a foundation for a winning franchise. That means defense, and the OL, more than anything. But they went out and grabbed Davonte Adams, thinking pairing him with Carr would get them to the big game. Ooops. So, this year they will? Sign Aaron Rodgers? While the team has a horrible defense? Also, Davis has a long history of saying what seems like the right thing, then making or pushing decisions at his coaches, GM, etc. It's not as bad as Jerry Jones, Daniel Snyder, Jimmy Haslem, but it's like he can't keep his fingers out of the pot.

I have not read that anywhere from Stidham. If he doesn't want to start, then why would the Raiders even keep him? Commitment to the Clipboard has never been the Raider way. However, there is no real reason the Raiders need to find their franchise quarterback NOW. What they really need is a huge upgrade on defense, every player except Maxx Crosby really. And they lack depth on the OL. They do that, this will help build that foundation, and allow someone like Stidham (or Mayfield for example) to be a bridge QB, until they can find their guy. Not sure Mark Davis is that patient though.


That last part would indeed be nonsense. If Rodgers stays at GB, or there's a trade soon, this leaves two legit starting QBs left to snag. Grappolo, and Carr.

But if Purdy doesn't need TJ, what's the certainty Lance has the starting job?

As to Love, he was one of the biggest mistake draft picks in recent years. Has barely played at all, and 2023 will be the 4th year on his rookie deal.
Speculation has 3 possible free agent suitors for Geno: Tampa, Greenbay and the Jets.
 
Speculation has 3 possible free agent suitors for Geno: Tampa, Greenbay and the Jets.
Throw all this talk out. Either Geno signs the deal Seattle offers, or they franchise him, and he gets his $35m or so (fully guaranteed) for 2023. He's not going anywhere. Period. I'm sure Geno would rather have a nice 4-year deal, but if he gets franchised, very quickly some FAT paychecks will be showing up in his account erasing any quibbles he may have.
.as I've stated before, I dislike Stephen A (a lot), but he nailed it with his comments about A Rodg.
Same. And a reason as a Raider fan I think trading and signing Rodgers would be a mistake that sets the franchise back a few years.

If they do sign him, here's what I see: Raiders finish maybe 9-8, with Rodgers completing many great throws to Adams. But the defense still gives up about 28 points a game, and Rodgers age starts to show. He's not mobile behind an average OL, and like Brady in 2022, throws a lot of passes in the dirt to avoid getting hit. Disappointing season, but hype things will get better as the team gels.

Since the Raiders gave almost all their money to Rodgers, and top draft picks, they can't build, and in 2024 they finish 7-10. Mark Davis is mad, and makes some loud fans happy by firing Josh McDaniels and Dave Ziegler. Hitting the reset button once again. He looks into hiring Gruden back, but that's met with a barrage of negativity. A new GM and coach (and assistant coaches) are brought in, but an obviously aging Rodgers selfishly collects into training camp, blames the team for not supporting him enough, then retires, leaving the Raiders on the hook for a chunk of his contract, plus a heap of dead money, plus still in a draft hole. The team finishes 3-15 in the newly minted 18 game, 2025 season. This gives them the top pick in the draft, but rookie QBs are really hit and miss, and the team is still in a hole financially, and don't improve much, maybe going 6-12 in 2026.

During this time. Patrick Mahomes has gone 8-0 against the Raiders, and collected two SB rings. Justin Herbert and the Chargers go 6-2 against the Raiders, and find themselves in two AFC championships. The Broncos are still a mess, but knowing when to cut bait, Payton cuts Russell Wilson after 2023. The Broncos slowly improve, keeping the Raiders in the cellar.

Pessimist, or realist? You tell me.
 
Wilson didn't seem to miss much based on being shorter in Seattle but he was more mobile. As you noted, roll-out plays and options with Marshawn Lynch seemed to keep the pocket more open, possibly? Unless they brought blitzers from the side he always presented a risk for 20 yd. runs under pressure and could get to the edge very quickly. That option faded in his last year and a half in Seattle, along with is willingness to take direct responsibility for bad play.
His lack of running plays (or mobility) could definitely make his life in the pocket uncomfortable and affect passing in Denver.
He also got sacked a lot like Murray these days but amazingly Wilson rarely misses games until recent times. He can obviously take a hit better than Murray.
 

With Mahomes ankle on the mend, they will help tremendously vs Eagles and there defense. My only concern would be him reverting back to putting the ball in harms way out of habit due to his increased mobility. Besides the fumble, he played an excellent game against the Bengals ball security wise.
 
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