New road bike - advice needed

[groverjones]

Well, the time has come. My wife has finally approved the purchase of a new road bike - well it helps that the RSX shifters on my '99 piece of junk finally died.

I have up to $3000AUD to spend (around $2500USD, or 1500 GBP). I am looking for something basically to get me back to full fitness. I've lost about 35kg so far, and am looking at dropping down another 20kg or so. I used to race as a junior, both on the road and the track but that was 20 years ago. Since then I've had recurring bouts of chronic fatigue, and my weight ballooned.
Does anyone have any advice on what sort of bike to get? Any brands to avoid? I've always ridden Shimano groupsets, and will stick with that for now.
Cheers,
Neil

 

[kiwirider]

Well, the time has come. My wife has finally approved the purchase of a new road bike - well it helps that the RSX shifters on my '99 piece of junk finally died.

I have up to $3000AUD to spend (around $2500USD, or 1500 GBP). I am looking for something basically to get me back to full fitness. I've lost about 35kg so far, and am looking at dropping down another 20kg or so. I used to race as a junior, both on the road and the track but that was 20 years ago. Since then I've had recurring bouts of chronic fatigue, and my weight ballooned.
Does anyone have any advice on what sort of bike to get? Any brands to avoid? I've always ridden Shimano groupsets, and will stick with that for now.
Cheers,
Neil

Basic advice I'd give you is get out there and throw your leg over as many bikes as you can - and the one that feels the best to you is the best brand.

That said, some "rules" (as much as anything is a rule):
- know your saddle height measurement before you go into a shop - it's amazing how much less bull**** gets fed by dint of a simple phrase like "set my saddle to 73.6cm" ... (if you're not sure if what you're running is right - basic rule is inseam x 0.838)
- look for a good set of wheels - single heaviest component on a bike and the laws of physics mean you'll feel the weight in wheels more than the weight in any other component. Also, being from Aussie, check the labels on wheels if you get Mavics - there was a period there where they were sending made in China wheels to your side and my side of the Ditch, and the product wasn't up to scratch
- take whatever you want for a good 15-20 minute ride. If the shop wont let you do this, either the bike is crap and they know it or they are a crap shop and find another one;
- don't trust any reviews - including off this site - as too many are the result of either blatant biases and conflicted interests on the part of authors (sorry CN and others, but I honestly believe that). Also, there is so little difference between what's out there (see again my first point on this list) that it's getting harder and harder for the review authors to write anything meaningful.
- don't feel that you "have to have" carbon frames. I much prefer the ride of aluminium - and I take great delight in blasting people on carbon frames into the weeds after they've called me a dinosaur for riding alloy. For you, carbon may work, but then again it may not ... personal choice and what feels right for you.
- in terms of gruppos, noting your stated preference for Shimano - and I'm out of touch with Aussie pricing, so not sure how this sits - but you probably only need to go 105 or even Tiagra. If you can get a good frame, then I'd go lower on the groupset, save the money and put it into a really nice set of wheels - or start banking it to an "upgrade package" that'll get you Dura Ace or whatever else you decide you like in a few years time. And don't be "afraid" to try SRAM or Campag - you may find that they're nicer to hand than what you're used to ... but again, personal preference.

Also, if you're just looking for a bike to ride for fitness and in the odd group ride, consider looking at a cyclo-cross bike. I'm currently using my 'cross bike as a roadie - and it's fine for commuting, training and fast group rides. I wouldn't trust the brakes for road racing though. Reason I suggest looking at cross bikes is that they're the "non-trendy end of the market", so if you're not into racing you can get a much better speced bike than the equivalent $$ will buy you in a roadie ...

Only recommendation I'll make on a brand is to check out the Cannondale CAAD 9. I was helping a friend out the other week who had a similar budget to you and this bike stood out amongst what he looked at. The Tiagra equipped model is great value for money - and a really good base for upgrading into an absolute top level racer over a couple of years if it took your fancy ...

Have fun - and let us know what you end up with ....

 

[Designcycle]

Hi Groverjones,

I also live in Perth, so I have a rough idea what conditions you will be riding in - i.e. plenty of rain and wind in winter and plenty of heat and wind in summer, autumn and spring mild and even more wind
Luckily, you are buying at the right time, as the 2010 models will soon be hitting the shops - meaning great deals on 2009 models. Frequently the new model year may mean a few tiny upgrades and a different paint job. The previous poster is pretty much spot on with his advice; just go and try as many bikes as you can. You will most likely end up with a carbon bike with 105 or an alloy/carbon mix with Ultegra. All comes down to personal preference, but I would take 105 and carbon. Main reasons: 105 is still very good, and for most of us in the real world not a hell of a lot different from Ultegra, and carbon whether better than alloy or not is becoming the default choice for road frames - meaning if you ever want to sell your bike it will be a lot easier if it's carbon.

You will notice that each of the major brands pitches similar models at similar price points. At about $3000 you will find a bunch of bikes with exactly the same 105/Aksium wheels/carbon frames/own brand bars, stem, seat posts etc. so the choice will almost certainly come down to how the bike 'feels' or 'looks'. I would concur with the other post; the quality of the shop is almost as important as the bike! Go with a shop that cares, knows how to fit you to the bike, and support you down the track and it will be a good investment regardless of brand name. Oh, and if you want to make the most of riding in Perth, save up and buy some 'aero' wheels - we don't have much in the way of climbs but as you know we sure have wind - wheels which are aero rather than light will give you more of an overall benefit.

I have a Specialized Tarmac and I have noticed suppliers are selling the Elite model for $2899 - that's a fantastic deal. Personal preference of course, but I love the frame, it's relatively light, has sharp handling and is pretty comfortable for what is marketed as an out and out race frame. Specialized also have an excellent warranty - I had a problem with an earlier frame, and no questions asked got a replacement within 10 days. When you live in the most isolated city on earth I call that a speedy replacement!

Good luck, that budget will get you a very, very nice bike whatever you choose!

 

[groverjones]

Yeah, I'm pretty hopeful of getting a nice ride..
I've been averaging about 50-100k a week for around a year now, riding a '99 "Kojima K700" road bike which is the most mismatched piece of junk I've ever owned, but it was cheap, and that was the budget then. As I said, on the weekend the right (front) shifter carked it, and so I've decided to get a new bike.
I'll throw a leg over as many as possible. In fact, I might wait until the weekend so I can spend some decent time doing it and wear some proper clothes.
Thanks blokes,
Neil

 

[rgmerk]

Consider a "plushie"

Given your goals, it sounds like comfort on long rides is probably more important than the last 0.5% of performance.

Bikes like the Specialized Roubaix, the Giant Defy, and so on (most manufacturers have them) are "plush" road bikes which have a slightly more comfortable seating position, frames which absorb a bit more of the road bumps and vibration, and slightly more stable geometry (at the cost of the ultimate in responsive handling)

They're marginally slower to respond in a bunch sprint, but unless you're doing crit racing what do you care?

So, particularly if you have any issues like a dodgy back or sensitive hands, I'd be looking hard at a bike designed for the rest of us rather than Mark Cavendish or Alberto Contador.

 

[groverjones]

Given your goals, it sounds like comfort on long rides is probably more important than the last 0.5% of performance.

Bikes like the Specialized Roubaix, the Giant Defy, and so on (most manufacturers have them) are "plush" road bikes which have a slightly more comfortable seating position, frames which absorb a bit more of the road bumps and vibration, and slightly more stable geometry (at the cost of the ultimate in responsive handling)

They're marginally slower to respond in a bunch sprint, but unless you're doing crit racing what do you care?

So, particularly if you have any issues like a dodgy back or sensitive hands, I'd be looking hard at a bike designed for the rest of us rather than Mark Cavendish or Alberto Contador.

That's exactly right. I want something that's going to take me to the next level, but I'm not yet at that level myself, so something that's comfy for my fat **** would be great..
I do indeed have carpal tunnel problems, thanks to spending all day on a keyboard..
Cheers,
Neil

 

[DL9999]

(if you're not sure if what you're running is right - basic rule is inseam x 0.838)

What measurement does that give you? The "rule" I'm familiar with is that the distance from BB centre to top of saddle should generally be arround 0.883 of the inseam measurement. That figure is from the 1980s though, when pedals were higher and shoe soles thicker than nowaday.

 

[kiwirider]

What measurement does that give you? The "rule" I'm familiar with is that the distance from BB centre to top of saddle should generally be arround 0.883 of the inseam measurement. That figure is from the 1980s though, when pedals were higher and shoe soles thicker than nowaday.

Oops, good point - dyslexic fingers and not checking the post before submitting ...

You're right - it should be 0.883 ... and give or take a detail seems to still work pretty well despite the changes in shoes and pedals since it was put out ...

 

[groverjones]

Hmm, possibly bad news. I think my permission to buy a bike has been withdrawn after the Mrs went and shopped for Christmas presents for the kids. I may get away with lay buying one, but of course that means I'll be on my broken bike for 3 months +.
Anyone know how to fix an STI shifter that shifts up but not down? (front shifter)..

 

[runninboy]

Hmm, possibly bad news. I think my permission to buy a bike has been withdrawn after the Mrs went and shopped for Christmas presents for the kids. I may get away with lay buying one, but of course that means I'll be on my broken bike for 3 months +.
Anyone know how to fix an STI shifter that shifts up but not down? (front shifter)..

"Campy breaks in, Shimano breaks down " Sorry couldn't resist

My suggestion might be to look on Ebay for a replacement, You can use even an old 8 speed for the front you know.

 

[groverjones]

"Campy breaks in, Shimano breaks down " Sorry couldn't resist

My suggestion might be to look on Ebay for a replacement, You can use even an old 8 speed for the front you know.

In my price range, I'm not seeing too many Campagnolo groupsets, although I know they're out there. I think it might just be an Australian thing though.
I'll check out Ebay for a set of shifters, thanks for the pointer.
Cheers,
Neil

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Hmm, possibly bad news. I think my permission to buy a bike has been withdrawn after the Mrs went and shopped for Christmas presents for the kids. I may get away with lay buying one, but of course that means I'll be on my broken bike for 3 months +.
Anyone know how to fix an STI shifter that shifts up but not down? (front shifter)..

Try flushing it with WD-40, then spray lube. Cannot really 'fix' it, take apart and replace parts. No parts available, not really possible to take apart and reassemble. 'May' fix it. or as otherwise has been suggested, ebay for a replacement.

 

[kiwirider]

In my price range, I'm not seeing too many Campagnolo groupsets, although I know they're out there. I think it might just be an Australian thing though.
I'll check out Ebay for a set of shifters, thanks for the pointer.
Cheers,
Neil

Option B is the on-line English bike shops. I've used them for years without any problems - stuff would arrive in NZ for a total cost (including import duties) equal to about half the retail within a week of ordering. Given similarity in prices and distance between there and where you are, am guessing it's viable for you too.

Companies I have used successfully are:
http://www.parker-international.co.uk
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk - currently my pick as the best of the bunch for road stuff
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com
http://www.totalcycling.com - although I note a thread on another part of the board where someone has had hassles with them ...

Bear in mind though that Shimano levers are expensive for what they are - it's something to do with Shimano's pricing strategies. You may find it's cheaper to change over to SRAM, or even Campag (which needs a spacer kit to let a Shimano cassette run with Campag spacing - I do that on my cross bike now while I'm waiting for hubs to build new Campag wheels) than to get new Shimano levers ...

 

[groverjones]

Option B is the on-line English bike shops. I've used them for years without any problems - stuff would arrive in NZ for a total cost (including import duties) equal to about half the retail within a week of ordering. Given similarity in prices and distance between there and where you are, am guessing it's viable for you too.

Companies I have used successfully are:
http://www.parker-international.co.uk
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk - currently my pick as the best of the bunch for road stuff
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com
http://www.totalcycling.com - although I note a thread on another part of the board where someone has had hassles with them ...

Bear in mind though that Shimano levers are expensive for what they are - it's something to do with Shimano's pricing strategies. You may find it's cheaper to change over to SRAM, or even Campag (which needs a spacer kit to let a Shimano cassette run with Campag spacing - I do that on my cross bike now while I'm waiting for hubs to build new Campag wheels) than to get new Shimano levers ...

Wow, that's the best tip I've gotten. Thanks for that! I love shopping online, and getting it cheaper than the LBS is definitely going to sway the Mrs.
Cheers!
Neil

 

[groverjones]

Now here's a newbie question. I've not built a new bike since around 1990, so am unsure, but how do I know that if I buy a new groupset it will fit my bike?
Do frames have standard bottom bracket sizing? I guess I'd need to go for clip on rather than braze on, or get the LBS to install the new groupset.

While the present groupset on my bike is old, the frame itself is ok for probably another year for me. I figure the best thing to do would be to upgrade the groupset now, and then purchase a new F+F and wheels, saddle, etc down the track. Is this a good option? I broached the subject this morning with the Mrs, and she was much happier with that option. I figure it will also get me a much better bike for the same dollars.

One of the links posted above:
Sora shifters - 129 Great Britain Pounds
Sora 9sp groupset - 179 GBP
It seems like I'd be a mug not to spend the extra 50 pounds and get the whole lot at once.

Alternatively, and this is probably a flame bringing question - Campagnolo or Shimano?
Ribble, posted above, has a Campagnolo Xenon/Mirage 10sp groupset for 230GBP......

Cheers,
Neil

 

[blaxland]

Well, the time has come. My wife has finally approved the purchase of a new road bike - well it helps that the RSX shifters on my '99 piece of junk finally died.

I have up to $3000AUD to spend (around $2500USD, or 1500 GBP). I am looking for something basically to get me back to full fitness. I've lost about 35kg so far, and am looking at dropping down another 20kg or so. I used to race as a junior, both on the road and the track but that was 20 years ago. Since then I've had recurring bouts of chronic fatigue, and my weight ballooned.
Does anyone have any advice on what sort of bike to get? Any brands to avoid? I've always ridden Shimano groupsets, and will stick with that for now.
Cheers,
Neil

A Good Brand To Consider Is Malvern Star Legend Oppy Range 2009(Australian company)The Oppy C6 Carbon frame/fork With Shimano Ultegra Gruopeset will set you back $3500

 

[groverjones]

A Good Brand To Consider Is Malvern Star Legend Oppy Range 2009(Australian company)The Oppy C6 Carbon frame/fork With Shimano Ultegra Gruopeset will set you back $3500

Yeah, I rode that exact bike yesterday, which is why the Mrs isn't quite so happy now... Beautiful handling, really nice feeling riding it, but alas it's now too expensive.
I grew up riding on my Dad's early '70s Malvern Star and for nostalgia's sake would love to own one again. I took that bike and upgraded every component until I found that the bottom bracket was so old that it couldn't be replaced. I rode around 50-60000k on that thing over 4 or 5 years. I moved over east, and when I came back for a visit I'd discovered that Dad had thrown it out. I was quite devastated, and upset that I didn't get to say goodbye. As someone's quote here says - your bike has a soul - and that one sure did.

 

[kiwirider]

Now here's a newbie question. I've not built a new bike since around 1990, so am unsure, but how do I know that if I buy a new groupset it will fit my bike?
Do frames have standard bottom bracket sizing? I guess I'd need to go for clip on rather than braze on, or get the LBS to install the new groupset.

While the present groupset on my bike is old, the frame itself is ok for probably another year for me. I figure the best thing to do would be to upgrade the groupset now, and then purchase a new F+F and wheels, saddle, etc down the track. Is this a good option? I broached the subject this morning with the Mrs, and she was much happier with that option. I figure it will also get me a much better bike for the same dollars.

One of the links posted above:
Sora shifters - 129 Great Britain Pounds
Sora 9sp groupset - 179 GBP
It seems like I'd be a mug not to spend the extra 50 pounds and get the whole lot at once.

Alternatively, and this is probably a flame bringing question - Campagnolo or Shimano?
Ribble, posted above, has a Campagnolo Xenon/Mirage 10sp groupset for 230GBP......

Cheers,
Neil

Since I sent you down this line, I'd better keep offering you "words of wisdom" (or otherwise - you decide!) ...

I'll also declare my bias - I'm a Campag fan and Campag user from way back. I have however used Shimano, most recently on my cross bike for the last 9 months.

Ok, with that out of the way ... I'll say the following:
- steer away from Sora - it's very much a bottom of the range group set. If you were going to commute 5km each way to work a couple of times a week, it's fine. But anything more than that and you'll get really frustrated with it. An ex-girlfriend of mine had it on her bike when she started training for Ironman - but by the time she was doing the event, she had bought a new bike with Ultegra on it, mainly prompted by her frustration with the Sora.
- Tiagra is an OK gruppo. From your OP, I'd say that you'd be happy with that groupo and you may not notice the benefits of the higher groups at this stage. This was what was on my cross bike (I recently changed to Veloce) and it worked OK - nothing stellar, but it handled mud, crashes and a winter of riding in the snow over here.
- the Xenon/Mirage group is a good gruppo. One thing that Campag do much better than Shimano is to move their top line technology down the model lines (Shimano put "adaptations" of the top gruppos into the cheaper ones). So what you're getting with this set up is something that is similar to a Record set of a few years ago. To my mind, this is a better option than Tiagra - but, as I say, I'm a Campag fan.
- if the Minister of Finance will allow, I'd actually spend the extra GBP85 (bearing in mind that their prices still include VAT, which you get back as an "export customer" - but I always used the VAT inclusive price as a proxy for a landed price) and get the Veloce Ultrashift gruppo. The reason why I say this is that the technology in the levers and the Ultra-torque crank are right up there. Basically, in each case you are buying exactly the same as the current Super Record (just not carbon and not 11 speed). The shifting is fantastic - even better than the Record from a couple of years back that I have on my road bike!

Part of my reason for recommending Campag is the comment that another poster made to you - "Shimano wears out, Campag wears in". It is legendary for its durability. Also, if you do have a problem, spares are available at generally reasonable prices to mere mortals like us - only pro teams get most of the Shimano spares.

So, yeah, if I was ranking the options, I'd go Veloce Ultrashift, Xenon/Mirage and Tiagra ... That said, you have to go with what feels most comfortable of the three of those.

As for your questions about the gruppo fitting - should be no problem. Just make sure that you get the threading on the bottom bracket right - English (most common) or Italian. You can tell by the TPI count on the bracket cups.

The only other area of possible concern would be your rear dropout width/spacing - but RSX is the same width as the modern gruppos, so you'll have no problems with that.

Just thinking - make sure you check the seat tube circumference on your frame for when you specify the size of the front derailleur band. Most modern frames are either 31.8 or 34 - if you've got an older steel frame, you'll be less than this. No hassles though, all you need to do is get a bit of rubber (eg., like the spacers that you get with light sets to make sure that the mount fits your handlebars) and put that under the band. I did this recently for a friend who took a derailleur off me for his old steel framed roadie - and it works fine.

Lastly, good on you for going this way - custom building I mean. You can end up spending a little more than you otherwise would, but you know that you're getting something that you really want and that you have chosen. Be careful though, once you start down this line, you'll never want an off the shelf bike again!

Hope all of that is of some help. Feel free to PM me if you've got any specific questions that you think I could help with.

 

[groverjones]

Wonderful, thanks for the advice.
I'm an old computer builder from way back - have never bought off the shelf - and when I was riding seriously back in the early 90's it was the same.
It should be a simple matter with "she who must be obeyed" to show her the LBS price - around $1500 - compared to the online price - around $400 - to convince her that it's a good way to go.
Thanks for the help!
Neil

 

[runninboy]

I agree with the Veloce suggestion, while i have not ridden it, i have heard & read great things about it.
As kiwirider points out you are basically getting record technology for much cheaper price, and it will be repairable down the road if there is a problem.
One more benefit, because of the durability & repairability and excellent performance when you want a "New" bike, just buy a frame & transfer the parts. They will be broken in, better than new. I have one group that has been raced on a Litespeed, a GT edge, a Giant TCR team, and is currently on a Griffen TT bike. 13 years and still going strong. Everyonce in awhile i replace the chain, cogs,cable, chainring & brakepads.
spend a few extra pounds on a decent gruppo now & it will pay for itself over & over.

 

[kiwirider]

One thing that I should've said in my last post ...

If you decide to change the gruppo to Campag but are keeping your current wheels at this stage, you'll need to get a spacer kit to let you run a Shimano (or SRAM) 9 speed cassette with your 10 speed Campag levers. You probably wont find one at your LBS - although I'm told Miche do a cassette that runs the right spacing, as do American Classic - but there is guaranteed to be some wheel builder over your part of the world who machines stuff like that up. Alternatively, contact Tristan at http://www.wheelworks.co.nz - I got a spacer kit from him about three months back (I'm running out the crappy Shimano wheels on my cross bike while I'm picking up the bits to build some good Campag compatible wheels) and it works perfectly. Cost me about NZ$30 - including postage to Canada. Tristan can tell you the ins and outs of setting it all up - really simple to do.

Of course, if you're already getting some wheels, you can ignore all of this ...

 

[groverjones]

Err, I've got a 7 speed cassette.. I'm thinking that a Campagnolo 10 speed cassette will not go on there. Would that be right?
I'm going to pull the bike apart on the weekend and clean it all up anyway, so will take all the measurements then.
Neil

Edit: I'm confused. You mention 9 speed Shimano or SRAM cassette with 10 speed Campagnolo shifters. Wouldn't I just installed the 10 speed Campagnolo cassette on my existing wheels? I have a 7 speed rear Exage cassette at present.
Cheers.

 

[kiwirider]

Err, I've got a 7 speed cassette.. I'm thinking that a Campagnolo 10 speed cassette will not go on there. Would that be right?
I'm going to pull the bike apart on the weekend and clean it all up anyway, so will take all the measurements then.
Neil

Edit: I'm confused. You mention 9 speed Shimano or SRAM cassette with 10 speed Campagnolo shifters. Wouldn't I just installed the 10 speed Campagnolo cassette on my existing wheels? I have a 7 speed rear Exage cassette at present.
Cheers.

No can do with installing a 10 speed Campag cluster on a Shimano wheel - the splines on the cassette are different. The splines on SRAM or Shimano are the same, so you can go for either of those options.

I am actually wondering if you can do anything with your existing wheels if they are 7 speed ... Reason I say that is that I'm not completely sure about the cassette width of a 7 speed set up and whether any of the 9 or 10 speed modern cassettes will fit on ... I had thought that RSX was an 8 speed group, so figured you'd be Ok when I made my previous comments. The 7 speed thing throws up a can of worms - no matter which brand of groupset you go with ...

I'd suggest checking out with your LBS if you could fit a 9 or 10 speed Shimano on the RSX hub. If you can, then you're sweet. If not, then you'd need to pick up a rear hub - and the choice then becomes yours depending on which groupset that you went with.

So, back to the Campag system ...

Reason I said 9 speed is that the chains and cog spacing are also different between the various companies. Shimano 9 and Campag 10 are about the same spacing/chain width. Shimano 10 is a narrower chain/cog spacing. None of the current 9 or 10 speed chains will work with your 7 speed cassette.

As I say, Campag wont go on a Shimano hub because of the splines. You can space a Shimano cassette so that the cogs are at Campag spacing and will work with Ergo levers. However, due to differences in the cassette widths and the available space on the hub, you can't run 10 speed Campag spacing width on a Shimano hub.

The solution is to run the spacer kit with a 9 speed cassette. All that means is that you set up the Ergo levers so that the 9th/smallest cog is engaged with the 9th shift - ie., the 10th shift is dead. It works perfectly well - as I say, I've been using this on my cyclocross bike for a few months and it's great.

Sure, it's not ideal, but if you're not getting new wheels yet, then it's a good way of getting a bit more life out of your existing wheels whilst negotiating part 2 of the bike upgrade ... Of course, getting new hubs and using your existing rims or getting a new wheelset work even better still - but that's an issue for you to negotiate with the boss I'm guessing ...

Sorry if that previous message confused and hope that's clarified things for you ...

 

[groverjones]

OK, that's sort of what I thought you meant.
I'll pull the bike apart this weekend - it needs a good clean anyway - and see what's what. Will do some measurements, and then some pricings, and submit a purchase order to "The Boss" and cross my fingers.
I suspect it's going to be like upgrading old computers - and not going to be compatible with anything with a semblance of modernity. We'll see.
Cheers,
Neil