New WADA/AFLD Influenced Tour Podium: Pick 'em

[Oldman]

Assuming the newly contracted Tour testing is effective with WADA "helping" the UCI; do your podium picks change?

 

[Anonymous]

I think this could dramatically change the tour. With afld/wada working together, sharing information and basically ordering the uci to do surprise tests on riders without the uci knowing who the riders are, certain riders are going to be running scared.

Certain riders are going to think they are safe from the afld and carry on doping anyway, certain riders are going to be seriously worried, Caisse and Shacks former Astana riders are certainly going to be worried if the theory is that the police information the afld has is related to last years syringe finds. I see no way on earth that any riders from shack/astana/caisse can risk doping as they are sure to be the prime targets.

Any shack or caisse riders that had chances of a top ten may just have lost out. It also makes me wonder if contador being linked with JB etc can risk doing anything this tour either.

All falling into the hands of saxo bank.

 

[Big Doopie]

that's not how i read the news. yes, wada will be overseeing uci. but that wouldn't seem to stop uci from warning certain teams of the testers imminent arrival. it also wouldn't stop the uci from burying any inconvenient positive. and afld would appear to have only one small chance of being involved at all -- and that is if they have information (that no one else has) that would make them suspect certain riders.

i felt this agreement -- without afld being allowed to their own unannounced testing is actually a great loss.

if someone has a better understanding of the ramifications, please enlighten me.

 

[thehog]

Does anyone still have a link to the video when Beltran got busted by the AFLD? What amazed most about the video was it was a rountine drugs test at the Tour but he looked shocked that he was being tested. In fact he couldn't believe that were going to test him. He looked looked plain surprised that they wanted to test him. Which leads me to believe under UCI testing the riders generally know when they're going to be tested well in advance of the test.

 

[Nikolai]

All falling into the hands of saxo bank.

Nothing will be falling into their hands, they'll be tested like everyone else.

 

[python]

if there was a ‘no start’ rule (due to abnormal blood profile), then yes the podium and the top 10 would be drastically affected.

just like texas would not be allowed to continue and podium last year had the rule existed. his suspicious hemoglobin and %rets in the 3d week would pop him

but since the uci unlike fisa resists the rule introduction i doubt the podium will be affected.

mini-micro-tiny dosing is still ahead of the demanding criteria required to trigger a 2-year suspension.

here's the essence and the futility of the anti-doping fight the uci way.

 

[CycloErgoSum]

CN's editorialising:

"The resolution seems to be a good compromise..."

Nice one, Hedwig; way to be taken seriously as a journalist.

 

[Anonymous]

I thought I was the only one!

CN's editorialising:

"The resolution seems to be a good compromise..."

Nice one, Hedwig; way to be taken seriously as a journalist.

... to notice the editorials dressed as reporting.
Once we admit that this stuff is NOT journalism, the happier we will be.

CN and other similar web sites are cycling fan sites. The writers are 1) cheerleaders for cycling, 2) appologists for the UCI 3) internet entertainers trying to keep us engaged so we will click the buttons and purchase what their advertisers want us to buy. As l;ong as we all know that from the start, and have no false expectations of "journalistic integrity", it is OK, right.

We could all be in the Chorus of the Mikado singing,

"And I am right,
And you are right,
And all is right as right can be!
Chorus:
And you are right.
And we are right,
And all is right, is right as right can be!
And all is right as right can be,
Right as right can be!"

 

[Anonymous]

that's not how i read the news. yes, wada will be overseeing uci. but that wouldn't seem to stop uci from warning certain teams of the testers imminent arrival. it also wouldn't stop the uci from burying any inconvenient positive. and afld would appear to have only one small chance of being involved at all -- and that is if they have information (that no one else has) that would make them suspect certain riders.

i felt this agreement -- without afld being allowed to their own unannounced testing is actually a great loss.

if someone has a better understanding of the ramifications, please enlighten me.

Because the UCI wont be able to warn the riders because they wont know the names. The system for the tour is.

1) afld inform wada of a rider they want testing and the reasons why
2) wada look at the information (they have signed a confidentiality agreement with the afld) and decide if test is warranted
3) wada inform the uci they that wish one of their testers to meet with a wada observer but do not give a rider name
4) the uci tester meets up with the wada observer
5) only then is the tester informed of who they are testing and is escorted to the test by the wada official and is allowed to contact nobody along the way
6) test conducted

the tests will be 100% surprises.

AS for Hedwig I really think he needs to go back and read the Wada document properly, he has completely missed all of the good stuff, in fact reading his article I doubt hes even read the wada decision. I think hes just asked around the office and written up a quick article.

 

[Big Doopie]

thanks, TSF.

this does seem better after all. it's like wada is getting between the two so that there can't be just a he said/she said after the tour.

however, i have images of the uci person having a secret button in their pocket that they push as soon as they find out who they will be testing to warn them...

 

[RandomThought]

Slightly off topic, but:
In the case of Armstrong and an incident like Showergate, would a properly administered test actually have resulted in a positive? Or just a slightly suspicious passport value?

I always thought that the doping was refined enough that they really could beat the test, and weren't so reliant on advance warning about the tests.

But cases like Beltran would obviously suggest otherwise. Is Lance's program more refined, or is he really at risk if he happens to get tested at the "wrong" time?

To get back on topic, my thinking would be that the WADA/AFLD relationship would ultimately benefit whoever has the most refined program -- which I expect would be Radioshack/Lance...

 

[Anonymous]

Slightly off topic, but:
In the case of Armstrong and an incident like Showergate, would a properly administered test actually have resulted in a positive? Or just a slightly suspicious passport value?

I always thought that the doping was refined enough that they really could beat the test, and weren't so reliant on advance warning about the tests.

But cases like Beltran would obviously suggest otherwise. Is Lance's program more refined, or is he really at risk if he happens to get tested at the "wrong" time?

To get back on topic, my thinking would be that the WADA/AFLD relationship would ultimately benefit whoever has the most refined program -- which I expect would be Radioshack/Lance...

not if police involvement means wada can order tests outisde the usual 6am-10pm window.. but to test at 1am wada would have to have pretty damning evidence or they risk lance blaming poor performance on being woken up.. then again, if they tested him at 2am on the rest day, that could prove interesting.

If you beleive past uci tests where the entire astana team had time to prepare while the testers drank coffee, or lances 20 minute shower where he could theoretically have drunk large quantities of water, then genuine surprise tests could be interesting. Im not sure if wada will catch anyone, or the riders and teams will just get cleverer. I can see a team employing Jean Todt soon - he is the master of pits top strategy

 

[Anonymous]

I don't think it will change that much. If there were a disqualification for consistent blood profile, then we would see something different. As it stands, transfusion, while obviously more difficult to pull off, will still be the norm. I have to say that Basso's profile for the Giro does give me a glimmer of hope, but the fact is that the bio-passport still only codifies doping levels, and transfusion is doping even if there are no doping products present. Maybe they need to employ blood bag/saline bag sniffing dogs in the hotels? In reality, they could train dogs to do that, and I bet the dogs would go wild when turned loose.

 

[Anonymous]

thanks, TSF.

this does seem better after all. it's like wada is getting between the two so that there can't be just a he said/she said after the tour.

however, i have images of the uci person having a secret button in their pocket that they push as soon as they find out who they will be testing to warn them...

They dont need a secret button. Radioshack will just have interns everywhere looking out for testers. Will be like the drug gangs use kids in the cities to spot police, and secretly send text messages along the route so the bad guys know exactly where the police are, or in london where the dodgy food sellers have lookouts on every corner.

 

[thehog]

They dont need a secret button. Radioshack will just have interns everywhere looking out for testers. Will be like the drug gangs use kids in the cities to spot police, and secretly send text messages along the route so the bad guys know exactly where the police are, or in london where the dodgy food sellers have lookouts on every corner.

Yes its very difficult to know when the UCI are coming wearing their secret non-identifiable clothing!

 

[Oldman]

Yes its very difficult to know when the UCI are coming wearing their secret non-identifiable clothing!

And the nose-pick is a signal for the type of test. This nostril indicates a urine specimen most certainly...

 

[Anonymous]

and heres me thinking you would all be happy about the afld/wada pack, instead we just have a whole new brand of cynisism

 

[Cobblestones]

And the nose-pick is a signal for the type of test. This nostril indicates a urine specimen most certainly...

... while a$$ scratching would indicate blood testing.

 

[ilillillli]

Maybe they need to employ blood bag/saline bag sniffing dogs in the hotels? In reality, they could train dogs to do that, and I bet the dogs would go wild when turned loose.

Ha! Nice. Dogs trained to crave the scent of human blood? Can't think of a problem with that

 

[Anonymous]

Ha! Nice. Dogs trained to crave the scent of human blood? Can't think of a problem with that

No, not blood. The bag itself. Or more correctly the smell of the bag and the blood/saline combination. I would think a bloodhound would be able to discern them.

 

[ilillillli]

No, not blood. The bag itself. Or more correctly the smell of the bag and the blood/saline combination. I would think a bloodhound would be able to discern them.

Ah... I was just having a little fun anyway. It'd just be great to see the first rest day headline on CyclingNews read: "UCI Plan to Use Bloodthirsty Dogs Goes Terribly Awry: Partially-Devoured Armstrong Vows to Fight On."

 

[Oldman]

and heres me thinking you would all be happy about the afld/wada pack, instead we just have a whole new brand of cynisism

Sorry, just having some fun on an otherwise serious subject. But seeing a picture of UCI guys like that; you gotta wonder how hard is it to fool that group?

 

[Anonymous]

Ah... I was just having a little fun anyway. It'd just be great to see the first rest day headline on CyclingNews read: "UCI Plan to Use Bloodthirsty Dogs Goes Terribly Awry: Partially-Devoured Armstrong Vows to Fight On."

Bur first there would be a tweet "Bloodthirsty dogs broke into my room at 4am. How do you say SSDD in dog?"

 

[ilillillli]

Bur first there would be a tweet "Bloodthirsty dogs broke into my room at 4am. How do you say SSDD in dog?"

For. The. Win.

 

[Kender]

... while a$$ scratching would indicate blood testing.

i'd have thought an a$$ scratch would indicate they are testing for all kinds of crap