New WSJ Article 7/10/10

[MacRoadie]

The article's mentioning of "team leaders" to me looks to include Armstrong. It's the domestiques who were following orders who can avoid doing the forced horizontal monkey dance with Big Bubba if they come clean.

That is exactly what it means and I think LA has ****ed off someone at the Journal now too, with his cracks about their reporting.

Polish will say they have a vendetta now and will continue to mis-quote their own interviews not previously published anywhere, but it will actually result in more investigative focus on him on the part of the media.

 

[Oldman]

The article's mentioning of "team leaders" to me looks to include Armstrong. It's the domestiques who were following orders who can avoid doing the forced horizontal monkey dance with Big Bubba if they come clean.

Note I said as a rider. His hubris had Boss labelled on everything including the Team Bus toilet paper so they knew who they were riding for. Being a Slavemaster is a b*tch when the Revolution comes, don't you think?

 

[Animal]

Polish has become a parody of himself. Maybe someone has hacked his account. It's getting pathetic now.

 

[Mellow Velo]

The noose tightens. No way will Omerta hold up against federal interrogations.
Riders will sing like canaries.
Kohl confirms the practice to the letter.

Plus, today alone, we have two more knees to the nut.
Pat McQuaid changing his "donation" story again.
We now have, not one, but two donations totalling $125,000.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-reveals-armstrong-made-two-donations-to-the-uci
Major face palm from Armstrong when he reads McQuaid's gaff.
The French investigation into the Astana dump is still ongoing and confirms doping products found.
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/4...SP-investigation-from-2009-still-ongoing.aspx

What next? Maybe SSDD will become MoreSDD

 

[python]

You can't really be this stupid.

<snip>

polish is not stupid.

he is skilfully misdirecting and obfuscating the focus of the article from armstrong to a small quote from kohl that btw was 100% consistent with his earlier interviews.

no one in the us will care about which team exactly kohl rode for but it's easy to derail the subject by going on and on about that. polish is also intentionally stressing cera/epo by kohl as opposed to blood transfusions on the us postal. but we know for a fact that kohl was using blood transfusions during his last tour.

what matters here is kohl's corroboration of floyd's techniques re blood doping:
-cutting the bags and flushing them in the toilet
-blood bag transportation employing separate persons
-masking and avoiding etc


ignore polish and let him flap his lips in the wind.

 

[peloton]

ignore polish and let him flap his lips in the wind.

+1000

And please do not quote his posts, I don't want to read the crAp he writes.
Thanks.

 

[Willy_Voet]

Perhaps Polish doesn't understand that riders dope for races other than the TdF? Or maybe that they have hotels with toilets outside of France?

 

[Publicus]

Kohl never rode the TdF with T-Mobile.

Kohl sure seems to be lying in one of his two accounts.

1) EPO/CERA without team systematic doping at Gerolsteiner
2) Systematic NON-EPO/CERA Blood Doping exactly like Postal.

The WSJ seen to believe story #2.
I believe the WSJ is wrong.

And Big George can tell the truth - Lance did not force him to dope.
Big George can take responsibility for his own actions.
Do you think he will say lance made him do it?

You are misreading or misunderstanding what he is saying. He is not saying that there was systematic doping at Gerolsteiner. He is saying that he used similar methods to transfuse blood at the Tour (taping up holes, cutting up the blood bags, etc.). At least that's how I understood his comments.

 

[Publicus]

Armstrong will end up being the epitome of the [I]rank[/I] and file rider they don't prosecute...as a rider. They are targeting interstate and international traffic in controlled substances and whatever financial means (wire fraud, internet commerce, etc) that facilitated patterns of illegal activity. If Lance ends up being part of that management practice he better flip and testify: the last man standing will do time. Polish and other apologists must know it's time to look for a paying job somewhere else.
It won't happen as fast as some are predicting but it will be very expensive for those that aren't cooperative.

I think your thinking here is largely correct except as it pertains to Armstrong. From what I've read about him, he's just not going to admit his involvement. There is too much at stake for him.

 

[hrotha]

I loved the thinly veiled reference to Armstrong and Bruyneel in the article.

This is interesting. I must admit after the first article I was starting to lose faith.

 

[Parrot23]

One thought:

Does the team's apparent selling of their Trek bikes on the side to fund a doping program tend to clear them of having misused federal/U.S. Postal funds for doping, yet perhaps put them in jeopardy of a (lesser?) charge of defrauding a private sponsor (Trek), even if the latter seemed to know the bikes were being sold but not for what?

Wondering if they are going to get away with this angle on a technicality, NOT that I want them to (like the Public Strategies fellow here, Polish).

 

[Publicus]

One thought:

Does the team's apparent selling of their Trek bikes on the side to fund a doping program tend to clear them of having misused federal/U.S. Postal funds for doping, yet perhaps put them in jeopardy of a (lesser?) charge of defrauding a private sponsor (Trek), even if the latter seemed to know the bikes were being sold but not for what?

Wondering if they are going to get away with this angle on a technicality, NOT that I want them to (like the Public Strategies fellow here, Polish).

It might. But it opens them up to tax evasion.

 

[scribe]

It might. But it opens them up to tax evasion.

Depends on the end user. There are ways around that as well, such as actually paying tax duty on that income without really identifying what the income is...which is the way filing is actually done.

 

[Publicus]

Depends on the end user. There are ways around that as well, such as actually paying tax duty on that income without really identifying what the income is...which is the way filing is actually done.

I'm just working with the basic description of what allegedly transpired. I've not heard any defense from Tailwind etc. that they actually reported the income from the sale of the bikes and components, so I didn't factor that into my response. Did they declare the net income (money from bike sales less money paid for doping products)?

 

[scribe]

Purchase the hard stuff with cash and show a cash disbursement schedule with lots of fluff. Used to be you don't have to produce receipts for itemizations <$50. You spread a lot of expense that way. Who knows what sort of holes exist overseas, which is where most of this stuff occured.

 

[Publicus]

Purchase the hard stuff with cash and show a cash disbursement schedule with lots of fluff. Used to be you don't have to produce receipts for itemizations <$50. You spread a lot of expense that way. Who knows what sort of holes exist overseas, which is where most of this stuff occured.

Stuff like what? They have sponsors who provide lost of the things that would fall into the petty cash bucket. As far as the overseas angle, I am not aware that any of the owners of USPS/Discovery Channel, with the exception of Bruyneel, were foreign persons (or entities). I know the principal owners are US based corporations.

EDIT: For the record, I realize that this is baseless speculation on your part. I'm just trying to game out how exactly you think this would work, because it seems far more difficult to accomplish than you seem to imply (IMO).

 

[blackcat]

One thought:

Does the team's apparent selling of their Trek bikes on the side to fund a doping program tend to clear them of having misused federal/U.S. Postal funds for doping, yet perhaps put them in jeopardy of a (lesser?) charge of defrauding a private sponsor (Trek), even if the latter seemed to know the bikes were being sold but not for what?

Wondering if they are going to get away with this angle on a technicality, NOT that I want them to (like the Public Strategies fellow here, Polish).

the sponsor revenue and bike value are fungible. The fact of the matter is, cash sales of frames, are easier to launder, and do not even have to record in the ledger.

 

[Polish]

You can't really be this stupid.

Kohl is equating Landis' doping during the tour with his (Kohl's) doping at Rabobank. Kohl isn't talking about his own doping during any Tour with any team, simply that the PROCESS was the same.

Idiot

So, the WSJ article #2 is implying the rinky dink doping Floyd describes at Postal during the TdF is "exactly the same" as the doping Kohl did as an amateur rider at Rabobank? And not comparing it to the EPO/CERA doping Kohl did at the TdF with Gerolsteiner?

Maybe if the WSJ article #2 mentioned the name "Rabobank", I could have understood the story as you have explained it to mean.

But really, this second article is even weaker than the first.

Who does the WSJ get to corroborate Floyd's accusations of doping at Postal...
Lance's ex-wife? Former team mate? Team doc? Team Chef? Bus Driver?

No, they quote Kohl.

From his days as an amateur supposedly.
Damning corroboration I suppose.

Who will they get to corroborate in WSJ #3?
A Blogger?
"Cozy Behive says Lance is a doper"

 

[python]

a request to everyone - pls ignore the polish troll and dont quote his karp.thnx

 

[Polish]

It might. But it opens them up to tax evasion.

Haven't seen the IRS getting involved yet, but who knows.

Will Novitsky pass off the Juicy Lance Case from the FDA to the IRS?
He used to work at the IRS I think....

So all the American teams sell their used bikes for $$ I would assume.
SlipStream. HighRoad. RockRacing.

Maybe that is what the WSJ headline means by "casting a wider net"
They have not netted much SO far...

 

[Pedaaldanser]

Kohl corroborates that the way that Landis doped (with teammates) was the same as how he doped (alone). That would mean that those precautions are common in doping practices to avoid leaving any trace. Useful to know.

 

[oldschoolnik]

Re: Hincapie - lying vs. singing vs . "I don't recall"

Re; Hincapie Given how few people were probably in the "doping" room at the same time, why is it a choice between lying to prosecutors or signing like a canary? Why can't George just say "I don't recall" in response to most of the tough questions? Then Novitsky ends up with a few people saying I saw this and a few saying "I don't recall"?

Still waiting for "teeth" of the investigation.

Nik

 

[Cobblestones]

Re; Hincapie Given how few people were probably in the "doping" room at the same time, why is it a choice between lying to prosecutors or signing like a canary? Why can't George just say "I don't recall" in response to most of the tough questions? Then Novitsky ends up with a few people saying I saw this and a few saying "I don't recall"?

Still waiting for "teeth" of the investigation.

Nik

You could say 'I don't recall' when asked 'who else was in the room?' You can't say 'I don't recall' when asked whether you took a transfusion or not. That sh|t won't fly.

 

[Lepsallini]

You could say 'I don't recall' when asked 'who else was in the room?' You can't say 'I don't recall' when asked whether you took a transfusion or not. That sh|t won't fly.

You could still say 'no' when asked about a transfusion. And even if there were supposedly 2 or 3 other people in the room 5-10 years ago, and they both said 'yes', that sh|t still don't have teeth and still don't fly. It will have as much teeth as a he-said/she-said spat in a junior high hallway.

I would have to agree with Polish here. The wsj articles seem to be getting weaker and fluffier. Still waiting for the smoking gun and not more quotes from boy landis or boy hamilton or boy bernie. It's all beginning to sound like a giant fishing expedition based on a claim from boy flandis the liar, that he saw a giant fish 'over there'.

 

[unsheath]

^^ Troll alert. Don't bite lads...