No doping controls??

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ultimobici said:
So, let me get this straight.
He was good enough to hold down a place on VC Aube for a season
He showed enough promise to gain a place on the CC Etupes squad at barely 20.
He won a race (albeit from a break so it doesn't count in your book), and had several podium placings.
Only a few months into the season he had to stop having being struck down with EBS, so can't have been in a position to be selected for any of the big races.
And your conclusion is he was a run of the mill rider doomed to failure. Therefore his reemergence is the product of something other than hard work and finally being in a position to show his true worth. F*ck me, you must be a super pessimist!
No, super realist. There are literally loads of riders who done as well if not better than JTL in France who never made it to pro level. I said JTL never got as far as riding top level in France (because of illness) so to just assume he would have made it is reaching. Of course it is a real possibility but so is the opposite. It is literally 50-50. The way some people behave, it was like he had a pro contract in his back pocket before he got sick.

Getting to ride Div 1 in France is like making the ProTour, dont mean you are going to be a star, for example not one of JTLs team-mates at CC Etupes 2005 made it to pro level and they are one of the top clubs in France.
 
ultimobici said:
So, let me get this straight.
He was good enough to hold down a place on VC Aube for a season
He showed enough promise to gain a place on the CC Etupes squad at barely 20.
He won a race (albeit from a break so it doesn't count in your book), and had several podium placings.
Only a few months into the season he had to stop having being struck down with EBS, so can't have been in a position to be selected for any of the big races.
And your conclusion is he was a run of the mill rider doomed to failure. Therefore his reemergence is the product of something other than hard work and finally being in a position to show his true worth. F*ck me, you must be a super pessimist!
You know I am really not interested in getting involved in the whole JTL talent thing again. As I posted on the previous page, there are clearly a lot of other people including cycling journalists and other pro's who are just as suspicious as I am. Just go and read that post.
 
Benotti69 said:
Oh heavens no! I am suggesting he is part of the 99% of the pro peloton who do dope.
Actually he's not a part of the pro peloton, which means that if your proposed amount of dopers is correct, he can still dope a lot more than anyone else, because he's not a part of the biological passport.
 
maltiv said:
Actually he's not a part of the pro peloton, which means that if your proposed amount of dopers is correct, he can still dope a lot more than anyone else, because he's not a part of the biological passport.
He's part of the pro peloton, just not part of the Pro Conti peloton.
 
It depends on how you define "professional".
He is now guaranteed a minimum wage, as he's not on a WT or PC team.
But I'm sure he's paid OK by Endura, and he certainly trains about as much as any WT or PC rider.

So yes, he's a professional.
 
Feb 22, 2011
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Benotti69 said:
Oh heavens no! I am suggesting he is part of the 99% of the pro peloton who do dope.
Then why the surprise at these performances? If they're (almost) all juiced, he's no more at an advantage than anyone else. Has he discovered a new, miracle dope?
 
May 26, 2010
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cycladianpirate said:
Then why the surprise at these performances? If they're (almost) all juiced, he's no more at an advantage than anyone else. Has he discovered a new, miracle dope?
I am not surprised! Dont know what gave you that idea. I may have used the word surprised, but i can assure you it was firmly tongue in cheek.

The only surprise is that fans still think their fav riders didn't or dont dope to win.
 
cycladianpirate said:
Then why the surprise at these performances? If they're (almost) all juiced, he's no more at an advantage than anyone else. Has he discovered a new, miracle dope?
Again, yes he is. Since he's not a part of the biological passport he can dope like it's 1999. The others have to watch their blood values.
 
Feb 22, 2011
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maltiv said:
Again, yes he is. Since he's not a part of the biological passport he can dope like it's 1999. The others have to watch their blood values.
You have faith in the biological passport?
 
Jun 15, 2010
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If JTLs recent performances are due to a doping advantage from being a continental rider,then why are so many World tour teams interested in him and why are more conti riders not following his doping regime?
 
May 26, 2010
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simo1733 said:
If JTLs recent performances are due to a doping advantage from being a continental rider,then why are so many World tour teams interested in him and why are more conti riders not following his doping regime?
There is the risk that if you dope to win because you are out of the testing pool, what are you going to do when you are in it?

Interest from World Tour Teams is only that, interest. Most probably wanted to see JTL in a testing centre to get a true idea of what he is capable off before offering a contract. WTT have their own doctors and 'training' and is JTL matching that 'micro training' or doing 'texan training' because he can or is he the real deal and very very talented who due to illness and other reasons came late to his peak?
 
Mar 17, 2009
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maltiv said:
Again, yes he is. Since he's not a part of the biological passport he can dope like it's 1999. The others have to watch their blood values.
Have you any idea how little a Continental rider is paid? Certainly not enough to allow the type of doping you're suggesting. Blood manipulation needs rigorous control to prevent Ricco type repercussions.
 
Jun 15, 2010
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Benotti69 said:
There is the risk that if you dope to win because you are out of the testing pool, what are you going to do when you are in it?

Interest from World Tour Teams is only that, interest. Most probably wanted to see JTL in a testing centre to get a true idea of what he is capable off before offering a contract. WTT have their own doctors and 'training' and is JTL matching that 'micro training' or doing 'texan training' because he can or is he the real deal and very very talented who due to illness and other reasons came late to his peak?
According to JTL his numbers are world class.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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ultimobici said:
Have you any idea how little a Continental rider is paid? Certainly not enough to allow the type of doping you're suggesting. Blood manipulation needs rigorous control to prevent Ricco type repercussions.
EPO is cheap. If you are not tested often it is easy to use with a short detection window. Not saying that JTL is doping just that it is much easier when a rider is not part of the Bio passport

I remember having a similar discussion about Machado with a former Pro who still works in the sport. I thought he was suspect....insane form, came from a toxic Portuguese team., etc. My friend said that the proof would be in how he performs long term under Pro Tour testing......I think we know the answer to that question.
 
Jan 27, 2011
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Ok so the Dutch magazine nusport.nl took a survey under Dutch cyclists, only 9 out of 29 have had out of competition doping tests. Cyclists asked and included in the survey are Robert Gesink, Thomas Dekker, Lars Boom, Johnny Hoogerland, Bauke Mollema en Wout Poels.

Posthuma also said that it was quite awkward and noticable that the doping controls have decreased. He said that last year at the trainingscamp of Leopard they instantly tested 25 guys, but now they havent even shown up.

The same is said by Tom Stamsnijder & Van Hummel that they have hardly seen them and thats its not good and disturbing.


The thing is, this isnt even the full article. Its just a short summary that'll be in the nusport magazine. So yes, it seems there are less doping controls being executed.


(source: http://www.nusport.nl/wielrennen/2756522/afname-in-dopingcontroles.html)
 
Source http://www.nusport.nl/boers/2756495/steekproef.html

A column about the article where Havetts referred to.

Most riders in the article say that there are less and less controles and it becomes more predictable and they are not happy about it, because they expect that there will be riders that start to feel safe about using dope again.

I haven't read the entire article, but I will buy the magazine on my way home from work. Should be interesting.
 
Kwibus said:
Source http://www.nusport.nl/boers/2756495/steekproef.html

A column about the article where Havetts referred to.

Most riders in the article say that there are less and less controles and it becomes more predictable and they are not happy about it, because they expect that there will be riders that start to feel safe about using dope again.

I haven't read the entire article, but I will buy the magazine on my way home from work. Should be interesting.
Or comfortable to switch back to cheaper, easier to detect, but really high-performance doping. I am Dutch, BTW. A good coat of naivity is wearing off.
 
Oct 30, 2011
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Would have thought that van Hummel, as a rising star would have been a target. I'm not suggesting that he's a particularly bad doper, but surely you have to at least check a man who's coming onto the WT with the season he's just had.
 

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