Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[Libertine Seguros]

Legkov's still going to win the globe for real skiers anyway.

 

[python]

Legkov's still going to win the globe for real skiers anyway.

for his fans, may be (btw, if they had rifes, you might have had a point b/c i hear leggo is an excellent shot being an avid hunter off skis), but for those who follow xc skiing, leggo's chance compared to petter's is minimal after the 2 races. It is simple, he is already almost 1:30 behind (forget the fis points where petter leads) . This is practically insurmountable for the short pursuit race on Sunday, regardless of the mass start outcome tomorrow.

But, given the lack of form for cologna (confirmed today) the final overall will look like this- northug, leggo, cologna. I give it 95% confidence level.

 

[ToreBear]

Damn what a bunch of pussies today cross country skiers are
For god sake, if they can't handle their skies they should just stay at home.

Maybe, but this course was likely too risky. It might have worked out in individual start for the men. For the women there would have been too many falls at high speed. And Justyna would have left the race.
In the Swedish championships a girl broke her leg when going out side the track. She apearently was just 2 meters a way from a concrete slab or something. And in XC, no one wears helmets.
Here are some videoes showing some of the course in different itterations:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th8nu2zYAAw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa-f1WCk4KI

After SM they were supposed to have changed the track, apearantly they did'nt change it enough.

Thomas and Petter Northug tried to ski the downhill like they would have in a masstart on classic skies, and they apearently crashed into each other.
http://www.nrk.no/sport/northug-krasjet-med-lillebroren-1.10959908

That article has some video if it's not georestricted. Not their crash but part of the course how it was laid out this week.

Those two are no slouches downhill, I think Petter is one of the best if not the best and they managed to crash. Imagine 50 guys skiing down that track on long classic skies. It would have been a major injury waiting to happen.

For the women who are even chakier downhill, it also would have been dangerous, though far fewer would be involved in the front after Mørdarbakken.

Ok apparently this was lead by the Norwegians, Russians opposed it.
What a bunch of cheaters. They only want to hurt Legkovs chhances.
Norwegian mafia, always the same

What? I think you are letting your conspiratorial mind run away from you. (Or has German television a different angle?)

The athletes had a meeting organized by Kikkan Randall who is their "union rep".

They all signed a document stating that the course needed to be changed or they would not start. I know the Russians did'nt sign, but Kikkan Randall could only talk to Yelena Vaelbe who said they would start no matter what. The Russians effectively were not allowed to have their own opinion.

As for the power play in all this, I don't know. AFAIK only the Russians refused to sign?

The ironic thing to me is that their athletes are among the weakest downhill. Especially the men. Imho Legkov is very vulnerable. The joke among the Norwegians is to stay away from the Russians in a masstart, they tend to have accidents.


Our athletes are among the strongest downhill. For the women, I think they also have a high standard. Perhaps Weng is a little shaky, but she just needs a little more training and confidence.

As for Legkov, anything he might have gained up Mørdarbakken against Northug he would have lost downhill either through falling, or poor skieing.

I think the Norwegians were dead set against having a mass start on the course. I think they would have been OK with the route in individal, but not in mass start, that would have been too risky.

I think for the prologue there was most concern among the women, and especially for Justyna. If she had withdrawn it would have been a real downer. But there are a lot of the other women who also are very unstable downhill.

So my impression is that there was agreement among the athletes that the course needed to change. Have you heard anything different?

 

[ToreBear]

Here is an article with a video containing the downhill before SM and from this week.
http://www.expressen.se/sport/langdskidor/arrangorerna-vi-borde-ha-lyssnat-mer/

I don't knw if this was how it looked today, or if this was how it looked before the latest changes.
Notice how much safety stuff they included . But that course is too narrow for a mass start. How they thought that could work I can not understand. They could have asked the skiers for advice. And for example Calle Halvarsson lives in Falun, so it's not like it would have been difficult.

Though that course looked perfect for ski cross.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

for his fans, may be (btw, if they had rifes, you might have had a point b/c i hear leggo is an excellent shot being an avid hunter off skis), but for those who follow xc skiing, leggo's chance compared to petter's is minimal after the 2 races. It is simple, he is already almost 1:30 behind (forget the fis points where petter leads) . This is practically insurmountable for the short pursuit race on Sunday, regardless of the mass start outcome tomorrow.

But, given the lack of form for cologna (confirmed today) the final overall will look like this- northug, leggo, cologna. I give it 95% confidence level.

I do follow XC skiing. Sure, not as closely as biathlon, but I still follow it, and I didn't say Legkov was going to win the World Cup. I said he was going to win the globe for real skiers. You know I consider the sprint races (and even more so the team sprint) to be a stupid gimmick that should take place maybe 2 or 3 times a season max, for the city races, and should be ceremonial, fun event liks the Gelsenkirchen and Moscow biathlon events or the Munich head-to-head Alpine slalom races, as it has no place in a real World Cup ranking, rather than being more than a third of the calendar and more than half of the relays in a season.

Legkov has the distance globe, hence he is going to win the globe for real skiers.

 

[jsem94]

While you might say that, and Legkov did win the distance cup too, he still went home empty handed from the Worlds. Meanwhile, Olsson, Cologna and Petter all earned individual golds.

 

[Bubban]

The biggest gimmick in cross country skiing is the tour de ski and especially the final climb. Legkov won that joke of a competition and the Holmenkollen 50k with a long sprint( if Northug would have won it like that all Northug haters would have gone crazy)+ the guy have zero medals from major championships while Northug destroyed everyone even on the 15k individual start.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

While that's as may be, he still leads the Distance standings. Sure, he didn't have a good Worlds. Sure, it's skewed a bit by the gimmickry of the Tour de Ski. But if you feel he shouldn't be the Distance champion of the season, then it's a problem with the scoring system, not with Aleksandr Legkov. And sure, Northug isn't as limited as his detractors like to say he is. But it's a simple fact that, bearing in mind Legkov is going to win the Distance globe, the reason Northug has beaten Legkov over the course of the season is his greater proficiency in the garbage races and gimmick races, of which there are FAR too many.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Jochen Behle said on Europosrt he did the original downhill of Mörderbakken and didn't consider it to bee too difficult at all.
He said the motivation of most athletes was probably to avoid going Mörderbakken upwards in the first place.

 

[Bavarianrider]

The biggest gimmick in cross country skiing is the tour de ski and especially the final climb. Legkov won that joke of a competition and the Holmenkollen 50k with a long sprint( if Northug would have won it like that all Northug haters would have gone crazy)+ the guy have zero medals from major championships while Northug destroyed everyone even on the 15k individual start.

You did watch the race, right?

 

[python]

I am not as critical of the mass starts and the glut of sprints as some here, but i certainly feel that the sprint bonification in the tds and the swedish minitour season ender is screwed up. Very seriously so. To award 60 seconds for winning the opening sprint while granting only 15 seconds for winning other longer stages is totally out of proportion with the efforts expanded and the sense of fairness and balance. I believe this type of arbitrary bonification contradicts fis's own philosophy when they introduced sprint races as a separate racing avenue.

As to leggo deserving the distance globe, i have no doubt about. but i feel though perhaps equally talented aerobically as northug and cologna (if not more so) he is not as complete a racer as the other 2.

 

[Bubban]

You did watch the race, right?

Yes of course but if a guy with 16 championships medals(26 years old) and now also a reigning champion in a 15 k individual start isn`t a real skier but legkov is Obviosly he will always be seen as a wheelsucker no matter what he does.

Both Cologna and Northug is much better skiers then Legkov and Cologna is a better distance runner than Legkov in both mass starts and individual races. And when it comes to tactics they are both on a different planet.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Yes of course but if a guy with 16 championships medals(26 years old) and now also a reigning champion in a 15 k individual start isn`t a real skier but legkov is Obviosly he will always be seen as a wheelsucker no matter what he does.

Both Cologna and Northug is much better skiers then Legkov and Cologna is a better distance runner than Legkov in both mass starts and individual races. And when it comes to tactics they are both on a different planet.

My point was that Legkov's win in Oslo was by far the hardest 50km race in the mass start era.
Saying Legkov won it by a long sprint is a bit missleading.
It wasn'T your typical Northug mass start sprint win out of a huge group. ( I am not blaming Northug)
A 15km race is still pretty much a sprint distance for men these days.
Northug needs to win a 50km indivdual race before his name will be in line with the likes of Daehlie and Svan

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yes of course but if a guy with 16 championships medals(26 years old) and now also a reigning champion in a 15 k individual start isn`t a real skier but legkov is Obviosly he will always be seen as a wheelsucker no matter what he does.

Both Cologna and Northug is much better skiers then Legkov and Cologna is a better distance runner than Legkov in both mass starts and individual races. And when it comes to tactics they are both on a different planet.

Which should only make it more impressive, given that you consider he has a deficit as a distance runner in both MS and individual races, and is tactically weaker, that Legkov is going to win the distance globe.

It makes it even more of an achievement for him that this means that the main reason he isn't going to win the World Cup overall is because there are approximately 836540 sprint events a season nowadays.

 

[python]

http://www.tv2.no/sport/vintersport/northug-maatte-gi-tapt-i-trippelduell-mot-legkov-4052212.html

this show ‘triathlon’ took place today in norway. northug lost to legkov overall, but won the uphill classic roller ski race. he lost in the bench press and a cart race. i am a tad surprised they used the classic rollers in stead of skating…

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Ouch!

Long recovery to come for Miriam Gössner
20 juin 2013

Miriam Gössner’s cycling accident over a month ago resulted in more damage
than originally reported according to an article and interview in the Münchner
Merkur newspaper on Friday.

Gössner commented, “It could have been much worse; I could have ended up in a wheelchair, so I had a lot of guardian angels.” It was originally reported that the German star had injuries to three vertebrae, but further examination by doctors found four broken lumbar vertebrae and an injured disc.

As a result of this more serious injury, Gössner’s planned six-week break will be extended significantly. She is currently wearing a corset-style back brace and receiving intensive physical therapy. Regarding the brace, she said, “It’s not pleasant; I feel totally constricted. I can hardly move. Even at night it is difficult. I usually sleep lying on my side, now I have to lie on my back.” Regarding her return to training, “In August I want to start rollerskiing. My big goal is that I can go to the November training camp in Norway with the team." Continuing, she added, “If I am not ready to compete in December, then I will start in January.”

http://biathlonland.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/long-recovery-to-come-for-miriam-gossner/

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yea, I read about that back when they first diagnosed it. It's sad, it's the third straight season her off-season's been blighted by injury, and this time the worst of them. I think we can probably write off her chances of being on the same blitzing ski form she was on in 2010-11 and 2012-13 in the coming season as her training will be so far behind everybody else. She's not the only biathlete to get seriously hurt this off-season too - Veronika Zvaricová was hit by a car when rollerskiing, and Selina Gasparin has also suffered some bad injury problems.

I hope that the German team does at least pretty well in the early season to prevent too many unreasonable expectations being made on Gössner and then forcing her back from the injury too early. She's a prodigious talent, but also she suffers a lot with illness and injury and sometimes finds it hard to deal with the weight of extreme expectations, so I hope that the press can be a bit forgiving if she is unable to duplicate her 2012-13 form immediately.

Guys like Soukup, Tarjei Bø and Simon Fourcade missed the start of last season through injury, and bounced back with varying degrees of success; Bø the most successful, even winning a World Championships medal, but he was still not back to his old self in terms of ski speed; obviously a Miriam Gössner not at 100% ski speed can still be pretty competitive on the world level, but that takes away her biggest strength as her shooting is unreliable.

I am a fan of hers and I hope she can get back to her best sooner rather than later.

 

[jsem94]

So... cycling season is done. My body is ready for the snow and XC/Biathlon.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

So... cycling season is done. My body is ready for the snow and XC/Biathlon.

While I've never done one I think a biathlon could be a blast. (A possible pun intended.) But only a very short and sweet one, perhaps something like a 5k?

I'm purely classical style xc skiing, maybe you could explain the beauty of the skating style to me?

 

[jsem94]

I do classical too. Skating style requires such insane technique, and I don't have skating skiis either. Have tried it a couple of times, and I find V1 to be the easiest of the gears, as well as the 2-skate. The hardest thing is the 1-skate. Have never done Biathlon either. Would love to try it out some day.

I was referring to the racing season though. I need to watch some races.

 

[meat puppet]

I'm purely classical style xc skiing, maybe you could explain the beauty of the skating style to me?

Try this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS0cTEi4M7o

I mainly skate, and have done so since I was toddler. Feels more intuitive to me. Also, you go faster, it's easier to push it, and having to maintain good balance while the effort is on makes good core training.

For instance, doing one hour threshold sessions on the skis is really productive. Also you are dead afterwards. On the other hand doing long 4hr endurance efforts is like riding the bike basically. Winter rules.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

When done right (think Lars Berger, Darya Domracheva) skating technique can be wonderful to watch. Then somebody like Johann Mühlegg turns up and ruins everything by spewing snow about and splashing about like an infant with armbands on going swimming for the first time.

I've been ready for the ski season to get going for months. Still waiting on who's taking Forni Avoltri's IBU Cup round (Brusson *fingers crossed*), and also after she wrecked the field in her nationals in pretty much every single race, excited to see what Franziska Preuß has got for us bearing in mind she's even younger than Dahlmeier.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

So the season is underway, and hopefully Martin Fourcade can continue like this, for the sake of the spectacle. Sad for the rest of the French team to not win when the ball was in the safest of hands, you'd have thought, but still, nice to get a bit of a surprise that set up a nice finale. Tora Berger shot very badly in prone as well, though her speed and others' mishaps with the rifle mean she still looked very ominous for the rest of the competition; Domracheva wasn't that fast, Mäkäräinen was decently quick, but the only other person who can outski Berger regularly, Gössner, wasn't there and was only 8th quickest in the Sjusjøen warmup events. Which in itself is a minor miracle given how far behind she is on training after starting the summer barely escaping paralysis, but it does mean we probably have some time to wait before we see her in the form of last year. If Berger can shoot more sensibly in individual events (which she often does anyway) it could be another dull season, but Marie Dorin was pretty quick and shot very well, and I'm sure Soukalová will have something to say when she's on form (she podiumed 6 races last year, but all of them were at 2 World Cup meets, so suggests when she's got the form right she's among the best, but at other times not quite as competitive). No Svendsen, Ustyugov or Birnbacher to judge against, and Slovenia were miles down by the time Fak got handed the reins. Tarjei Bø looked very solid, and Arnd Peiffer was pretty good, though he was good at Östersund last year, before failing miserably to match up to his prior seasons for the rest of the year. Florian Graf had a nightmare, with five penalty loops. For the men it's hard to tell much about any team other than France, Czech Republic, Norway, Germany and Italy, as while Ukraine were up there they did quietly get on with things and just profit from others' mistakes; everybody else was too far back to gain much camera time or attention on what they were doing.

 

[TomasC]

Good summary. Great result for the Czechs.
I didn't expect Moravec to maintain his 7 secs lead after the last shooting, but he smoked the hill, extended the lead to almost 20 secs and it was all over.
But how good is Marie Dorin Habert! Fastest course time, range time and shooting time and excellent shooting as always. It's only the first race so it's hard to judge, hopefully she's not peaking early. Anyway go Marie!
Edit: Results reading error, she was only fastest on her leg but very good anyway.

 

[jsem94]

Maaan. Fourcade is quite simply the king of biathlon.