Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[BullsFan22]

Somebody tell Bolshunov to either go his hard tempo the whole way or let somebody else do the work. He's letting them just draft behind. If this continues, I am afraid he'll find it hard to medal.

 

[Singer01]

So Johaug is definitely winning 4 golds right?

 

[Cance > TheRest]

What a race!

 

[KZD]

Incredible win for Roethe but Bolshunov deserved the win

 

[Singer01]

What was the point of Klaebo and Iverson? waste of energy.

 

[frenchfry]

Re:

What a race!

Great to see Clément Parisse fighting it out with the big boys. Backscheider 8th which isn't too shabby. Overall a great for the French given the absence of Manificat (sick).

 

[meat puppet]

Good race! Bolshunov strong but not savvy, imho he pissed the gold away by ego-leading for 20k or more.

 

[BullsFan22]

Bolshunov was probably the strongest of the bunch today and he had solid pair of skis on him, but leading for that long, in those conditions, it was quite something that he managed to get into the medals against the Norwegians that just sat back until the end. Having looked at the finish again, Bolshunov seemed to have eased off, seemingly content with bronze when the Norwegians were side by side, then started going all out a bit later. It's hard to say with 100% confidence, but my opinion is that had he started sprinting just a few meters earlier, he could have edged out Roethe. It was deceptive how fast he was going. This is now, I believe, the 2nd championship individual race that he lost out due to unwise tactics. Last year's 50km in Korea was for the taking, but he chose not to change his skis. Then today he led for so long, particularly in the skate portion AND not judging the sprint well enough. Hopefully he has good skis for the 15km and the conditions don't become too slushy (though he dealt with it very well today) and I think he could win it.

Not sure what the Russians do for tomorrow. I think putting in Retivykh in Ustiugov's place is probably wise, considering Ustiugov's classic portion of the skiathlon today and the fact that he looked exhausted at the finish. It was a brave climb back up the rankings in the skate portion, but he got nothing out of it. Two races already and nothing to shout about for him. Probably should take a breather tomorrow and get ready for the relay and 50km, where conditions will hopefully be more hard packed.

The German's, particularly Katz, had crazy fast skis. He was gliding better than anyone in the classic portion. That's what help keep him in the race.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

What a race!

Great to see Clément Parisse fighting it out with the big boys. Backsheider 8th which isn't too shabby. Overall a great for the French given the absence of Manificat (sick).

Had no idea that Parisse, and especially Bacscheider knew how to classic ski this well!

 

[Cance > TheRest]

As weird as it may sound, Sjur Røthe actually seemed stronger in the Lillehammer opening than today. But he skied a perfect race, tactically.

Sundby was also very close to that first elusive individual championship gold, as he did manage to get a small gap on Bolshunov and Røthe (who I suspect was just following Bolshunov because of tactics when Sundby went for it). But eventually, Sundby's attack was not succesful because he had to take the slow slush ice descent in front with only a minor gap. On the run-in it looked like Røthe had control over things.

 

[frenchfry]

Re: Re:

What a race!

Great to see Clément Parisse fighting it out with the big boys. Backsheider 8th which isn't too shabby. Overall a great for the French given the absence of Manificat (sick).

Had no idea that Parisse, and especially Bacscheider knew how to classic ski this well!

I know that Clément has been working on the classic technique, and he has always been strong in skiathlon (2nd in U23 worlds, 13th in olympics). He also had a great result in the TDS mass start classic (12th with snowy conditions) before he exploded in the final weekend at Val di Fiemme (apparently very bad skiis in the classic where he finished 35th).

Backscheider won the U23 skiathlon a few years back.

Granted that with the possible exception of Gaillard, classic isn't the best technique for the French

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

As weird as it may sound, Sjur Røthe actually seemed stronger in the Lillehammer opening than today. But he skied a perfect race, tactically.

Sundby was also very close to that first elusive individual championship gold, as he did manage to get a small gap on Bolshunov and Røthe (who I suspect was just following Bolshunov because of tactics when Sundby went for it). But eventually, Sundby's attack was not succesful because he had to take the slow slush ice descent in front with only a minor gap. On the run-in it looked like Røthe had control over things.

Perfect tactics for Norwegians seems to be not doing any work, even when others ask them to. That’s called being cowards. They sat there the whole way. Hardly deserved. They’ll probably do the same in the relay and the 50km.

 

[kingjr]

No one forced Bolshunov to set the pace all the way.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

As weird as it may sound, Sjur Røthe actually seemed stronger in the Lillehammer opening than today. But he skied a perfect race, tactically.

Sundby was also very close to that first elusive individual championship gold, as he did manage to get a small gap on Bolshunov and Røthe (who I suspect was just following Bolshunov because of tactics when Sundby went for it). But eventually, Sundby's attack was not succesful because he had to take the slow slush ice descent in front with only a minor gap. On the run-in it looked like Røthe had control over things.

Perfect tactics for Norwegians seems to be not doing any work, even when others ask them to. That’s called being cowards. They sat there the whole way. Hardly deserved. They’ll probably do the same in the relay and the 50km.

The goal is to win, is it not? They've won 4 of 4 so far. Maybe everyone else should learn or improve.

You need to let it go, coincidentally the film was based on Norway

 

[zarnack]

Some interesting and some surprising developments in men's skiathlon. Apart from Bolshunov all other Russians nowhere. Kläbo was totally wasted in this event before team sprint. Meanwhile French were surprisingly good.

It's strange that before that final climb Sundby didn't try to pull away from the group. His finish is not that good, he could have tried something more beforehand.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

No one forced Bolshunov to set the pace all the way.

He set the pace because the Norwegians were skiing like cowards. Had Bolshunov not worked, there was a chance that the skiers behind would have latched back on. So Bolshunov helped tow the Norwegians to the medals, then they just sprinted the last couple hundred meters, and still Bolshunov almost won. If there is any justice, he'll get his gold before the end of the championship.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

As weird as it may sound, Sjur Røthe actually seemed stronger in the Lillehammer opening than today. But he skied a perfect race, tactically.

Sundby was also very close to that first elusive individual championship gold, as he did manage to get a small gap on Bolshunov and Røthe (who I suspect was just following Bolshunov because of tactics when Sundby went for it). But eventually, Sundby's attack was not succesful because he had to take the slow slush ice descent in front with only a minor gap. On the run-in it looked like Røthe had control over things.

Perfect tactics for Norwegians seems to be not doing any work, even when others ask them to. That’s called being cowards. They sat there the whole way. Hardly deserved. They’ll probably do the same in the relay and the 50km.

The goal is to win, is it not? They've won 4 of 4 so far. Maybe everyone else should learn or improve.

You need to let it go, coincidentally the film was based on Norway

The goals is to win, sure, and the goal should be to win fair, not by doing a Simon Gerrans. They have won 4, the first one was done with arguably the strongest challenger out of the way because wonderboy decided he was going to cut him off, twice, in a space of a few meters. The other gold that day was because the Swedes took each other out. The first one today, I'll give you that one. No doubt about that one. The second gold medalist of today can thank the others for dragging him around for 29.5km.

So what is there to "learn," exactly? They may win all the races for all we know, doesn't mean all of them are well earned.

And I am not really sure what you mean with 'film?'

 

[zarnack]

In the end there is no "rule", how you should work in a group. Everyone plays to their own strengths.

 

[kingjr]

Re: Re:

No one forced Bolshunov to set the pace all the way.

He set the pace because the Norwegians were skiing like cowards. Had Bolshunov not worked, there was a chance that the skiers behind would have latched back on. So Bolshunov helped tow the Norwegians to the medals, then they just sprinted the last couple hundred meters, and still Bolshunov almost won. If there is any justice, he'll get his gold before the end of the championship.

Had Bolshunov not worked, the others might have lost their nerve and started to pull.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

In defence of the Norwegians, they've had a decade of being told that Petter Northug is a tactical master. A few of them have just had to adapt said "tactical mastery" because they don't have the same sprint weapon that Northug does.

 

[zarnack]

Re:

So Johaug is definitely winning 4 golds right?

Yes, 4. There was a chance that Sweden could beat Norway in the relay if all of Karlsson, Kalla, Andersson and Nilsson were healthy and in good shape. Because that's one hell of a line-up. But now it looks rather questionable...

Well, either way, even if Norway cleans up everything in Seefeld, I think the Swedish female team is bound to win something (or a lot) in the 2020's. They are too talented to keep missing out.

 

[zarnack]

Re:

In defence of the Norwegians, they've had a decade of being told that Petter Northug is a tactical master. A few of them have just had to adapt said "tactical mastery" because they don't have the same sprint weapon that Northug does.

The irony is that Bolshunov is probably the best sprinter of the three too, who went for gold today. I guess Norwegians saw that Bolshunov is in great form anyway and they wouldn't be able to break away from him. And then he would beat them to the line. So they rested their hope on Bolshunov doing the work and maybe tiring himself out a bit and then try to surprise somewhere later...

And if Sundby wants to win that elusive individual gold, I really don't see, how does he help his chances by sitting around. He should be the one going for it. But I guess he didn't "have it" today and Bolshunov was better anyway.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

In defence of the Norwegians, they've had a decade of being told that Petter Northug is a tactical master. A few of them have just had to adapt said "tactical mastery" because they don't have the same sprint weapon that Northug does.

The irony is that Bolshunov is probably the best sprinter of the three too, who went for gold today. I guess Norwegians saw that Bolshunov is in great form anyway and they wouldn't be able to break away from him. And then he would beat them to the line. So they rested their hope on Bolshunov doing the work and maybe tiring himself out a bit and then try to surprise somewhere later...

And if Sundby wants to win that elusive individual gold, I really don't see, how does he help his chances by sitting around. He should be the one going for it. But I guess he didn't "have it" today and Bolshunov was better anyway.

You said it yourself, he helped his chances by waiting. It would be suicidal to try a long range attack / pace setting strategy with today's sluggish snow conditions.

 

[zarnack]

So. Team sprint line-ups have been releaved.

In women this is probably Sweden's best chance to win a gold medal in these championships. And they really enter as favourites. As speculated a few days ago, it's gonna be Nilsson-Dahlqvist. Norway pairs Falla with a distance skier Östberg, as they don't have an obvious strong second sprinter. Russia's Neprayeva-Belorukova looks set to complete the top 3.

Among others - USA indeed has Bjornsen-Diggins (so that's why they missed skiathlon), Finland distance skiers Niskanen-Pärmäkoski. Niskanen also didn't participate in skiathlon, despite looking in good form in Cogne. Germany, Switzerland and Slovenia can end up in top 6 as well.

Iversen-Kläbo for Norway among men, which makes it even more baffling, why on earth were they both participating in skiathlon and cruising around in the pack. They should have given Krüger a chance to prove a point at least! Well, we will see tomorrow if this hinders Norway a bit.

Meanwhile Russia indeed has fresh Retivykh, while Ustiugov takes a day off after an unconvincing classic part of the skiathlon event. Niskanen-Hakola, de Fabiani-Pellegrino and Thorn-Halfvarsson are the wildcards. Italians and Swedes are most fresh. Swedes were 1st and 4th in skate qualifying. So we will see tomorrow if Swedish men are indeed in good shape at the moment. Even Burman finished in top 10 in skiathlon today. French - I guess not so good in classic.

 

[search]

Re: Re:

No one forced Bolshunov to set the pace all the way.

He set the pace because the Norwegians were skiing like cowards. Had Bolshunov not worked, there was a chance that the skiers behind would have latched back on. So Bolshunov helped tow the Norwegians to the medals, then they just sprinted the last couple hundred meters, and still Bolshunov almost won. If there is any justice, he'll get his gold before the end of the championship.

Had Bolshunov not worked, the others might have lost their nerve and started to pull.

Jochen Behle (former national coach) is commentating on German Eurosport, and he likes to tell the story that he always used to give his team the advice not do to too much work, because "there's always a Russian going to lose his nerves anyway". Most of the time, this is still the case.