This is the CNAR track in Mexico City @ 2200m:
http://www.fenamac.org/en/noticias/932-cdmx-velodromo-cnar
http://www.fenamac.org/en/noticias/932-cdmx-velodromo-cnar
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UncleChainwhip said:Of the dozen pro riders who have done the 'new' hour mark in the last couple yniears, only Decker went to Mexico. As Kevin stated, the cost of a record attempt there is less than half the cost of 1 of their road bikes! This fact makes the riders, support crews and pro teams involved seem very irrational. What is the reason for NOT going there?
Perhaps Alex could talk some sense into Dowsett, Wiggins, et al.
I kind of like Mexico.......
In addition to this is the time and cost required for altitude adaptation.nslckevin said:UncleChainwhip said:Of the dozen pro riders who have done the 'new' hour mark in the last couple yniears, only Decker went to Mexico. As Kevin stated, the cost of a record attempt there is less than half the cost of 1 of their road bikes! This fact makes the riders, support crews and pro teams involved seem very irrational. What is the reason for NOT going there?
Perhaps Alex could talk some sense into Dowsett, Wiggins, et al.
I kind of like Mexico.......
One caveat to the pricing is that our costs were spread out amongst I think 11 athletes. There are no UCI commasaires in Mexico so we had to fly in Randy Schaefer from Colorado. Mexican officials and anti doping traveled from Mexico City, etc. we had three days of record attempts. Generally a morning and then evening hour attempt when conditions were right. Then shorter attempts mid day when it was hot and fast. Chris Schmidt wanted $2500 for a turnkey hour record attempt including officials USADA. If a pro wanted to go to Aguascalientes alone for an attempt it would cost a lot more. Much cheaper to do it somewhere else. On the other hand, if you can get a group together it can be as cheap or chaper and faster.
UncleChainwhip said:Wow, what a teacup. Thanks for the nice pics. World Cup there must be special. No HVAC there though? Kevin mentions timing optimum rides for ambient outdoor temperatures. Circus tent at CO Springs not nearly as spacious, easier to control conditions. Does anyone remember the legend of the 'Moscow effect' of the indoor Russian velodrome? Was all the crying that Wiggins did about humidity and air pressure valid? If so, go to full lab-rat conditions in the CO Springs cocoon----airlock door in place, airtight seal on the rail perimeter and a janitor with a mop/pail full of Stan's sealant. May 2016 hour attempts there were advertised at $550 on their Records day!
Alex Simmons/RST said:In addition to this is the time and cost required for altitude adaptation.nslckevin said:UncleChainwhip said:Of the dozen pro riders who have done the 'new' hour mark in the last couple yniears, only Decker went to Mexico. As Kevin stated, the cost of a record attempt there is less than half the cost of 1 of their road bikes! This fact makes the riders, support crews and pro teams involved seem very irrational. What is the reason for NOT going there?
Perhaps Alex could talk some sense into Dowsett, Wiggins, et al.
I kind of like Mexico.......
One caveat to the pricing is that our costs were spread out amongst I think 11 athletes. There are no UCI commasaires in Mexico so we had to fly in Randy Schaefer from Colorado. Mexican officials and anti doping traveled from Mexico City, etc. we had three days of record attempts. Generally a morning and then evening hour attempt when conditions were right. Then shorter attempts mid day when it was hot and fast. Chris Schmidt wanted $2500 for a turnkey hour record attempt including officials USADA. If a pro wanted to go to Aguascalientes alone for an attempt it would cost a lot more. Much cheaper to do it somewhere else. On the other hand, if you can get a group together it can be as cheap or chaper and faster.
Not everyone lives/trains at altitude, so to prepare correctly for it you need to also allow for several weeks away from home base, with all the extra costs that involves.
It's also a physiological risk in the sense that for those who are experiencing the greatest change in altitude from their home base, the initial week or so is likely to resulting in some detraining since intensity of effort will need to be dialled back.
It really helps to have had previous experience of the acclimation process to understand the individual's response to such an altitude and to develop a plan for the optimal duration of stay and training in the lead up to an attempt. So that means several weeks away and done at least twice, preferably more than twice.
Given the time investment alone to do it properly, that's why it's more something for retiring pros to consider than for someone in the middle of their racing career.
Oh for sure (but you still need time to sort out your non-acclimated pacing). Provided you're not an idiot, you will go faster than at sea level.nslckevin said:For those of us without the time and/or resources to do an altitude camp to properly prepare, it's still significantly faster to just "show and go" at altitude than to do it at sea level. I'm sure I could have gone further if I had time to acclimatize. But I still went further than if I had gone to LA or some other sea level indoor track.
What is it that they say, "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" ?
Kevin
To some extent however you need to actually train in those conditions in order to best race in them. The tents are more about training low while sleeping high.GraftPunk said:Couldn't renting a hyperbaric tent a couple of weeks in advance help in the acclimation involved?
UncleChainwhip said:Recent Irish national record shows how fast Kevin and Norm really are............
Two different, contrasting approaches, Kevin---amateur, time, money, multiple peak season, years of TT perseverance, no children and support of NorCal racing/anti-ageing posse. .
Alex, do you know if Norm is the only ex-pro to have a master's Hour record? Do you know any other countries which allow this? USA has allowed ex-pro riders to vie for National championships since Thurlow Rodgers, retired from La Vie Claire, swayed a rule change in the 1980's.........
UncleChainwhip said:Whoa!
No accusation or innuendo, only compliments for your fine accomplishments. Appreciate your input here as i'm sure many others do. NorCal has been the largest strongest district in the USA since the days of ABL and also leading innovators in technology, nutrition and exercise physiology. To NOT give them credit would be an injustice & if Norm would have accessed them, his distance would have likely been furthered.
The adage 'Once a pro, always a pro' does not applied to modern competition. It originated from things like superior resources, residual benefits from a pro career and experiences with collusion/payoffs. 1992 was the last amateur cycling Olympics, pressured by other Olympic sports and many years of state-sponsored amateur athletes. USA leads the way in having the first 30 year old masters races, the first to allow pros compete as masters at national championships, allowing foreigners to compete/influence pro national championships and recently---allow foreigners to win state/district championships. What's next?
Great news about Mike, ex-WC and special talent still. Thanks for your info on other pro riders with veteran success.
nslckevin said:UncleChainwhip said:Recent Irish national record shows how fast Kevin and Norm really are............
Two different, contrasting approaches, Kevin---amateur, time, money, multiple peak season, years of TT perseverance, no children and support of NorCal racing/anti-ageing posse. .
Could you be a little more clear here? Are you accusing me of something illicit?
Alex, do you know if Norm is the only ex-pro to have a master's Hour record? Do you know any other countries which allow this? USA has allowed ex-pro riders to vie for National championships since Thurlow Rodgers, retired from La Vie Claire, swayed a rule change in the 1980's.........
Former pro Danny Nellisen won the Amateur road race at the 1995 worlds in Columbia. He was a former pro at the time who had taken a year off to a heart arrythmia or something. He ended up signing another pro contract after that.
Kent Bostick still holds the 45-49 world hour record. I am pretty sure he was a pro on Shaklee, but can't find anything definitive one way or the other. He is however a former 1996 olympian.
Mike McCarthy just broke the 45-49 3km record this week in Aguascalientes. 3:16.
Malcom Elliot won the master's world championship in Austria in about 2005 or 2006.
I don't think it's a US thing, it's a UCI thing.
BTW, maybe the Irish guy just isn't that good???
Kevin
GraftPunk said:Couldn't renting a hyperbaric tent a couple of weeks in advance help in the acclimation involved?
UncleChainwhip said:Let's rally behind Norm to go to Aguascalientes next year!
Don't let go of that bike yet Alvis. Get a pair of space legs for Christmas and hire Colby P. instead of Tommy D.
Proven to be a faster track and you have the experience from 2 this year. Bring on wind tunnel testing and the CA anti-aging supplies that are legal.
Tell wifey its a vacation & you'll get the pass for sure.
Should i kickstart the crowdfunding?