"Not less than the men"

[saganftw]

the winner of the female elite pro itt would've finished 32nd in the junior man itt field, that's how pathetic female cycling/sports truly is.

they are not competing against each other so it doesnt matter where would have she finished

also i read once venus williams in her prime played against some guy,heavy smoker and around 500th in the world and she couldnt beat him...however women tennis players do get equal money,even though womens tennis is lets say not as entertaining as mens,but its got its history,culture and sponsors are not afraid to pay good money

maybe in 20-30 years it will be the same in cycling

 

[L'arriviste]

Sportswomen have to be given the opportunity to overcome the ingrained prejudices and gender bias of several millenia of human history.

Most of the contributors on this thread are steeped in it, to the extent that they are completely blind to any possibility of a different way.

We are puckered souls indeed to complain about vested interests and societal injustice and then to regurgitate whole the same viewpoints that support the hegemony of corporate sports.

Let them ride, folks, and let them be paid fairly for doing so.

 

[ramjambunath]

they are not competing against each other so it doesnt matter where would have she finished

also i read once venus williams in her prime played against some guy,heavy smoker and around 500th in the world and she couldnt beat him...however women tennis players do get equal money,even though womens tennis is lets say not as entertaining as mens,but its got its history,culture and sponsors are not afraid to pay good money

maybe in 20-30 years it will be the same in cycling

I think that she lost to karsten grabsch ranked in the 200s (not sure) and the sisters were teens, but still they took a proper hiding.

I reiterate that tennis has been played by women since it started unlike cycling and pretty much every other sport. It has had a history of massive champions through history. In cricket, the first world cup was actually a women's world cup but till today only the poms and ozzies have a decent professional setup (most still have real jobs).

The minimum wage rule has to be enforced though, just to give the cyclists a bit of a safety net.these women are still supremely fit and they deserve some respect just for riding such (bordering on crazy) distances.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

and how would you go ?- pathetic really.

what does that have to do with it? I'm not even a cyclist.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

This kind of comment requires immediate suspension. It's really insulting.

why? because the truth hurts? I find it hilarious when man try to speak for female when I don't have single female friend who likes watching female sports

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Why are you so concerned with asserting the superiority of men? Is it because you don't really believe in it?

no because that's the point of dicussion, not less than men

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

and personally, before the arrival of power players such as the Williams sisters (just for an example) I actually found women's tennis much more enjoyable to watch than mens. At the time, women had amazing tactical exchanges while the men were baseline slogging. Now, both men and women slog. boring

Agreed. And because the matches are shorter, I actually hold interest . The Williams sister ruined it though. I still prefer women's tennis but will never watch the Williams sisters; they are too annoying.

Back to woman's cycling, I don't watch it because it's not as accessible (less televised, covered, etc), but that in no way means I can't get into it. I'm not as familiar with woman's cycling, but still check in to race results every so often. In fact, when I'm racing or just showing up to some crit to hang out, I'll always watch the woman race. They might be a little slower, but the races are still exciting and competitive.

For the most part I will agree woman's sport is just as exciting as men's....except women's basketball; there is no more boring sport on earth, but that might be because the rules prevent any of the excitement we see on the men's side.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Sportswomen have to be given the opportunity to overcome the ingrained prejudices and gender bias of several millenia of human history.

Most of the contributors on this thread are steeped in it, to the extent that they are completely blind to any possibility of a different way.

We are puckered souls indeed to complain about vested interests and societal injustice and then to regurgitate whole the same viewpoints that support the hegemony of corporate sports.

Let them ride, folks, and let them be paid fairly for doing so.

+1

And this goes back to the original comment of Bronzini.

If womens cycling continues to be treated as a second class sport (by organizers & the UCI) then it cannot possibly develop and therefore becomes less worthy in some narrow minds.

 

[cineteq]

why? because the truth hurts? I find it hilarious when man try to speak for female when I don't have single female friend who likes watching female sports

The issue that your are saying that they are boring because they're women. That's the insulting part.

The thing is the sport fails to take into consideration the average wattage of women, their different body shape, etc. They're put to race in a men's course with men's rules. That's why is boring.

Since we're talking tennis too, ever wonder why the court size, ball and racquet size have to be the same as men's? If you make proportional changes to women's court, balls, raquets, etc in regards to their power then we have comparable game. That's where the problem lies.

 

[Duartista]

Actually I think the relative lack of depth in women's cycling can work in its favour, in terms of excitement. I happened to see the Plouay races live last year, and the women's race was 1000x more exciting than the men's (admittedly, this was partly because the men were having a tantrum about the race being lengthened and neutralised a large proportion of the race). The men's race ended in a mass sprint, whilst Pooley won the women's race solo after repeatedly forcing the pace on the main climb.

 

[Maxiton]

they are not competing against each other so it doesnt matter where would have she finished

also i read once venus williams in her prime played against some guy,heavy smoker and around 500th in the world and she couldnt beat him...however women tennis players do get equal money,even though womens tennis is lets say not as entertaining as mens,but its got its history,culture and sponsors are not afraid to pay good money

maybe in 20-30 years it will be the same in cycling

Links or it didn't happen.

+1

And this goes back to the original comment of Bronzini.

If womens cycling continues to be treated as a second class sport (by organizers & the UCI) then it cannot possibly develop and therefore becomes less worthy in some narrow minds.

+1. Some women's races are exciting. Depends on the course and the team strategy. One thing's for sure: any woman in the pro peloton could drop any man on this forum. Guaranteed. That goes especially for you, Ryo.

If you don't like women's sports, don't watch. Simple. Though personally, I'd rather watch women compete in a hard fought race than men.

She does not approve

 

[ramjambunath]

Braasch beats Williams sisters during 1999 Australian open not Grabsch as I stated earlier.
Speed though is not the only criterion for saying that a sport is exciting, attacking mentality makes a race exciting and the women seem to have more balls than some men.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

The issue that your are saying that they are boring because they're women. That's the insulting part.

The thing is the sport fails to take into consideration the average wattage of women, their different body shape, etc. They're put to race in a men's course with men's rules. That's why is boring.

Since we're talking tennis too, ever wonder why the court size, ball and racquet size have to be the same as men's? If you make proportional changes to women's court, balls, raquets, etc in regards to their power then we have comparable game. That's where the problem lies.

it's more boring because they don't ride as has as the men, they sprint sitting down, stages have less mountains, shoter etc etc. the reason they are less in that is because they are woman, that's not what matters

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Links or it didn't happen.



+1. Some women's races are exciting. Depends on the course and the team strategy. One thing's for sure: any woman in the pro peloton could drop any man on this forum. Guaranteed. That goes especially for you, Ryo.

If you don't like women's sports, don't watch. Simple. Though personally, I'd rather watch women compete in a hard fought race than men.

who cares about those pictures. *** edited by mod ***

 

[Arnout]

Links or it didn't happen.



+1. Some women's races are exciting. Depends on the course and the team strategy. One thing's for sure: any woman in the pro peloton could drop any man on this forum. Guaranteed. That goes especially for you, Ryo.

If you don't like women's sports, don't watch. Simple. Though personally, I'd rather watch women compete in a hard fought race than men.

Wow so you are saying we should watch woman cycling because we can look at pretty girls. Well that's the way to get woman cycling to a higher level, to treat them like sex objects on a bike...

Anyway, I couldn't care less about woman cycling. Sad, but true.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Wow so you are saying we should watch woman cycling because we can look at pretty girls. Well that's the way to get woman cycling to a higher level, to treat them like sex objects on a bike...

Anyway, I couldn't care less about woman cycling. Sad, but true.

what's sad about the truth? ***edited by mod ***

 

[Arnout]

what's sad about the truth?? *** edited by mod ***

Sad for the people here that wanna see woman cycling on the same level I meant

 

[hrotha]

Hahahaha. "Women cycling is great, you sexist pigs! See how hot the riders are!"

 

[Dr. Maserati]

it's more boring because they don't ride as has as the men, they sprint sitting down, stages have less mountains, shoter etc etc. the reason they are less in that is because they are woman, that's not what matters

Did you watch the Giro Donne this year?
(No need to answer that, I know the answer.)

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Women's racing can be as exciting as men's racing (Olympic RR 2008, Stelvio duel 2010, Drenthe last year for three examples of some very good women's races).

However, it can also be just as boring (Worlds 2011).

In terms of the spectacle, the sporting part of it isn't really all that different, only the péloton is far weaker in terms of depth. The men are physically superior, yes, but the top women's abilities in relation to one another are not dissimilar to those of the men.

However, the presentation of women's cycling is very backward, a legacy of the lack of investment and broadcast time meaning many sponsors don't see it as worth investment. And most definitely, a race like Saturday's won't help that at all. Cervélo and HTC were quite good at keeping the women to the forefront. Now that Rabobank have essentially taken the Nederland Bloeit structure over, we'll see if they can maintain that momentum.

If they bring in a minimum wage, then more women can make a living from cycling, which increases the professionalism (many are part-time students as well as their cycling commitment), which can mean more varied results and more value being attached to the results, which can bring more exposure. That's the theory.

Women's cycling is more than likely never going to be at the same level of recognition, financially or socially, as men's. But it is currently being treated by most race organisers, sponsors and the UCI as an afterthought, and perhaps that's what should change. There should be more events like Plouay, Flèche or Ronde van Vlaanderen where they get to do a same day race - enables them to race in front of bigger crowds and showcase themselves, and the TV cameras are there too. Romandie used to do a women's ITT before the Lausanne ITT on the final day, for example - this is quite a good idea.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Women's racing can be as exciting as men's racing (Olympic RR 2008, Stelvio duel 2010, Drenthe last year for three examples of some very good women's races).

However, it can also be just as boring (Worlds 2011).

In terms of the spectacle, the sporting part of it isn't really all that different, only the péloton is far weaker in terms of depth. The men are physically superior, yes, but the top women's abilities in relation to one another are not dissimilar to those of the men.

However, the presentation of women's cycling is very backward, a legacy of the lack of investment and broadcast time meaning many sponsors don't see it as worth investment. And most definitely, a race like Saturday's won't help that at all. Cervélo and HTC were quite good at keeping the women to the forefront. Now that Rabobank have essentially taken the Nederland Bloeit structure over, we'll see if they can maintain that momentum.

If they bring in a minimum wage, then more women can make a living from cycling, which increases the professionalism (many are part-time students as well as their cycling commitment), which can mean more varied results and more value being attached to the results, which can bring more exposure. That's the theory.

Women's cycling is more than likely never going to be at the same level of recognition, financially or socially, as men's. But it is currently being treated by most race organisers, sponsors and the UCI as an afterthought, and perhaps that's what should change. There should be more events like Plouay, Flèche or Ronde van Vlaanderen where they get to do a same day race - enables them to race in front of bigger crowds and showcase themselves, and the TV cameras are there too. Romandie used to do a women's ITT before the Lausanne ITT on the final day, for example - this is quite a good idea.

If you introduce a minimum wage above the economic value these riders bring to the team, they just won't get hired, and riders trying to prove their worth would be banned from offering their services for free.

Women's cycling has an awful lot of economic development to go before it could bear that kind of regulation. The finances of most teams are precarious already. Introduce this at any sort of level where it actually has an effect vs the status quo, and you'd instantly push several teams over the edge.

 

[BroDeal]

Wow so you are saying we should watch woman cycling because we can look at pretty girls. Well that's the way to get woman cycling to a higher level, to treat them like sex objects on a bike...

It worked for beach volleyball.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If you introduce a minimum wage above the economic value these riders bring to the team, they just won't get hired, and riders trying to prove their worth would be banned from offering their services for free.

Women's cycling has an awful lot of economic development to go before it could bear that kind of regulation. The finances of most teams are precarious already. Introduce this at any sort of level where it actually has an effect vs the status quo, and you'd instantly push several teams over the edge.

Hence why I said that's the theory.

A lot of races pad out the startlist with national teams so I guess that would be one way to tide over if many teams hit the wall; also there are quite a few half decent teams without UCI classification. A lot of riders have those supplementary jobs that aren't really jobs - the Italian prison service has done plenty in that respect with the Fiamme Azzurre, hence why you'll see Tatiana Guderzo in particular in uniform when not cycling a lot. It's not all that different from the way the wintersports work in these areas I guess, but obviously there aren't enough places in these schemes to go around, cycling isn't like wintersports where six or seven people makes for a pretty decent team (per nation). There are an awful lot of women cyclists in Italy.

 

[L'arriviste]

Women's cycling is more than likely never going to be at the same level of recognition, financially or socially, as men's. But it is currently being treated by most race organisers, sponsors and the UCI as an afterthought, and perhaps that's what should change. There should be more events like Plouay, Flèche or Ronde van Vlaanderen where they get to do a same day race - enables them to race in front of bigger crowds and showcase themselves, and the TV cameras are there too. Romandie used to do a women's ITT before the Lausanne ITT on the final day, for example - this is quite a good idea.

I'm a big fan of the ladies' Ronde and it's really hard. The women tearing up the Muur was probably just as thrilling to watch as the men as far as I was concerned, especially because as you said, the peloton's lack of depth had some riders really dying out there. Pretty intense spectacle, really.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Hence why I said that's the theory.

A lot of races pad out the startlist with national teams so I guess that would be one way to tide over if many teams hit the wall; also there are quite a few half decent teams without UCI classification. A lot of riders have those supplementary jobs that aren't really jobs - the Italian prison service has done plenty in that respect with the Fiamme Azzurre, hence why you'll see Tatiana Guderzo in particular in uniform when not cycling a lot. It's not all that different from the way the wintersports work in these areas I guess, but obviously there aren't enough places in these schemes to go around, cycling isn't like wintersports where six or seven people makes for a pretty decent team (per nation). There are an awful lot of women cyclists in Italy.

It seems rather counter-productive to introduce a minimum wage with the stated aim of increasingly professionalism, but then accepting it will put lots of professional teams out of business and force riders in to riding in national teams, likely unpaid.