Nuclear disaster in Japan and wider Nuclear discussion

[Semper Fidelis]

I know..lets deregulate nuclear energy...the companies that build and operate nuclear power stations wouldn't risk their moral reputations by taking shortcuts on safety..Ayn Rand would know what is best. Now watch this drive.

I changed your picture to something more interesting. Nuke deregulation is that what happened in Japan?

 

[redtreviso]

I changed your picture to something more interesting. Nuke deregulation is that what happened in Japan?

misrepresenting my quote (again)..

Does Haliburton build nuke stations?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

misrepresenting my quote (again)..

Does Haliburton build nuke stations?

Not sure what Haliburton has to do with the Nuclear disaster in Japan.

I think that your giant big picture which you posted was very interesting, but I thought my allien picture had more interesting colors.

 

[Boeing]

misrepresenting my quote (again)..

Does Haliburton build nuke stations?

no but they rebuild them and the bidding started last night

theirs is the low bid fyi

 

[benpounder]

Does Haliburton build nuke stations?

I believe that GE is far more invested in Japan power, including the nuclear plants, than Halliburton. If, however, all one is trying to do is project malfeasances upon a tried yet war-wary whipping horse, then the Halliburton reference is quite understandable. And to hell with meaningful contributions to the conversation.

 

[Zweistein]

The protect engineers build the nuclear power plants to withstand a certain magnitude of earthquake, yet this tolerance can't be infinite. In the Niigata case the center was built to withstand a quake measuring 6 on the Richter Scale. The problem was that the 2007 quake measured 6.8. On the Richter Scale for every .1 increase in magnitude you have a quake that's 30 times more powerful. Consequently if Fukushima was built to withstand a 7 magnitude earthquake, yesterday’s measured 8.9, so you have a quake that was nearly 1000 times more powerful than the facility's intended tolerance margin.

Your math is wrong. Every decade is about a factor of 30. The magnitude was 700 times larger than the facilities tolerance.

 

[rhubroma]

Your math is wrong. Every decade is about a factor of 30. The magnitude was 700 times larger than the facilities tolerance.

Thanks for the correction, as a 700 times larger quantity versus a 1000 times larger quantity is, of course, a noteworthy difference.

We can all feel much safer now.

 

[Le breton]

Thanks for the correction, as a 700 times larger quantity versus a 1000 times larger quantity is, of course, a noteworthy difference.

We can all feel much safer now.

From what I had read requirements in Japan were for withstanding mag. 7.5 earthquakes.
Anyway, that question is moot as the earthquake proper did not damage the power plants.
Besides, when civil engineers plan for a given size earthquake, that earthquake is supposed to be right at the location of the plant, not 150 km away.
Then they apply an additional safety factor on top ( in France a factor 5, i.e. about 0.4 Richter units I guess, probably similar in Japan)

Anyway what concerns me greatly is that several very high level French officials, after estimating officially today that the accident was level 6, estimate then followed by US authorities, are now stating that the catastrophe could become worst than Chernobyl!

I hope this is just a political move to jerk Japanese authorities into action.
Japanese people are not properly informed, you hear over and over again Japanese residents of Europe stating that they have to inform their relatives in Japan about the situation there.

 

[usedtobefast]

what in the hell is that supposed to mean? Who would like something such as it is?

it means...who could like it? as most likely no one. or you fail to see the irony in my statement. BTW, i have many friends there.

here Glen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony

 

[Le breton]

From what I had read requirements in Japan were for withstanding mag. 7.5 earthquakes.
Anyway, that question is moot as the earthquake proper did not damage the power plants.
....

my first sentence might be wrong, see below
http://www.japanfocus.org/-Ishibashi-Katsuhiko/2495

I guess mute is the right way to spell "moot"

 

[benpounder]

Besides, when civil engineers plan for a given size earthquake, that earthquake is supposed to be right at the location of the plant, not 150 km away.

As a registered civil engineer, and exercising discretion, that is an ill-informed opinion.

[myedit] others should bear in mind this when considering the validity of the partially quoted post.

 

[Skandar Akbar]

As a registered civil engineer, and exercising discretion, that is an ill-informed opinion.

[myedit] others should bear in mind this when considering the validity of the partially quoted post.

Yes you exercised extreme discretion. Thank you for not subjecting the forum to an accurate description of le breton.

 

[Spare Tyre]

It is amazing how much it seems everyone wants’ to argue about the Nuke's. This is what it is a disaster and instead of adding valuable information we are getting arguments and ...statements for example....this thing is getting bad ...hope yall like it...or something like that. It is seriously insensitive.

I have to worry enough about my ex-wife and daughter and ex-in-laws etc. while they are over there and I was coming to the sight to try and read some different insight from other sources..for example Ferminal, python, and a few others seem to have better information than I can get from the stupid *** news we get here in the United States. Instead I have to see everyone almost happy this Nuke plant is catching hell. As if that is what the Japanese at TEPCO wanted to happen. WTF

Did you notice the title of the thread?

 

[Ferminal]

https://www.facebook.com/notes/inte...uake-update-17-march-0115-utc/202364423126685

Injuries

2 TEPCO employees have minor injuries
2 subcontractor employees are injured, one person suffered broken legs and one person whose condition is unknown was transported to the hospital
2 people are missing
2 people were ‘suddenly taken ill’
2 TEPCO employees were transported to hospital during the time of donning respiratory protection in the control centre
4 people (2 TEPCO employees, 2 subcontractor employees) sustained minor injuries due to the explosion at unit 1 on 11 March and were transported to the hospital
11 people (4 TEPCO employees, 3 subcontractor employees and 4 Japanese civil defense workers) were injured due to the explosion at unit 3 on 14 March



Radiological Contamination

17 people (9 TEPCO employees, 8 subcontractor employees) suffered from deposition of radioactive material to their faces, but were not taken to the hospital because of low levels of exposure
One worker suffered from significant exposure during ‘vent work,’ and was transported to an offsite center
2 policemen who were exposed to radiation were decontaminated
Firemen who were exposed to radiation are under investigation

 

[scribe]

https://www.facebook.com/notes/inte...uake-update-17-march-0115-utc/202364423126685

Add Lester Holt to the list of casualties.

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/s...BC-News-Lester-Holt-s-radioactive-shoes-VIDEO

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Did you notice the title of the thread?

LMAO yeah I did. Did you notice that you may need another Tyre?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

it means...who could like it? as most likely no one. or you fail to see the irony in my statement. BTW, i have many friends there.

here Glen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony

2 N's not one.

Yeah the irony just went over me....... I have my daughter and ex there along with many friends. Does not make a diff.... I just can not make a joke about it. GLHF ....

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

The quake at the Kashiwazaki-Kariwa plant (largest in the world) was several years ago, and while it caused some damage, that plant went under a lot structural reinforcement since then. Read about it here. A real part of the problem was the scandals that happened afterwards. Will it work if an other 9.0 hits? That's the question no one can really answer.

I'd be more worried about a couple of the older plants on the US Northeast and rust belt, the two right on the coast in Southern California, and a few really old ones out there still in commission (Hanford). I don't know that much about other global reactors, but the principle here probably applies the same.

Keep in mind also about Fukushima is that a lot of damage was done by the tsunami and repercussions from that, not just the quake.

And yes, Football (as in American Football) is the greatest sport on earth. And this is coming from someone who likes Futbol too.

 

[flicker]

I changed your picture to something more interesting. Nuke deregulation is that what happened in Japan?

Glenn are you part of the Heavens' Gate cult. I think you missed your bus...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I'd be more worried about a couple of the older plants on the US Northeast and rust belt, the two right on the coast in Southern California

And yes, Football (as in American Football) is the greatest sport on earth. And this is coming from someone who likes Futbol too.

Isn´t that the same area where the Vandenberg Airbase is? Just imagine a earthquake there and all the minuteman missiles explode. Or the Malmstrom Air Force Base just around the corner of a possible Yellowstone outbreak. That would be INES 10 or something.

Soccer is, compared to Real Football, pretty boring. It´s like a Flat-Stage compared to a Alpe d´Huez Mountain Top-Finish-Stage

 

[python]

did not see this ominous sign in the media yet.

curiously, the american nuclear oversight agency, nrc, recommends a much wider evacuation zone (80km) than that currently used by their japanese conterpart, nisa (20km)
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/news/2011/11-050.pdf

Either the americans…

(i) have more information or ?
(ii) their model is more sensitive/conservative or ?
(iii) the japanese are dangerously dragging their feet ?

 

[rhubroma]

did not see this ominous sign in the media yet.

curiously, the american nuclear oversight agency, nrc, recommends a much wider evacuation zone (80km) than that currently used by their japanese conterpart, nisa (20km)
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/news/2011/11-050.pdf

Either the americans…

(i) have more information or ?
(ii) their model is more sensitive/conservative or ?
(iii) the japanese are dangerously dragging their feet ?

(i) no
(ii) yes
(iii) likely

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

It´s all about the (Paper/Fiat-)Money. In Germany 28% energy comes from nuclear plants, and Germany exports Energy. So we could live without nuclear plants, if big companies would not be owned by greedy psychopaths who influence (bribe) our politicans.

4 Companies own "our" 17 nuclear plants. Each makes 1 Euro Million profit per day. That´s the ONLY reason they still operate and risk all our lives (they don´t want competition = less costs for consumers)... Don´t let yourself be fooled by those who own the plants, but inform yourself from different sources.

I see where you are coming from. Whoever Germany sells energy to must need the power, otherwise they would not buy it. And without that power from Germany they would have a shortage of power. So you'd be willing to just turn your back on your neighbor and let them freeze in the dark? I don't know, but I'd guess you wouldn't. As I said before, time and patience... and persistence with your cause are required to get to the point where society is nuke-free.

 

[Skandar Akbar]

.....
Besides, when civil engineers plan for a given size earthquake, that earthquake is supposed to be right at the location of the plant, not 150 km away.
Then they apply an additional safety factor on top ( in France a factor 5, i.e. about 0.4 Richter units I guess, probably similar in Japan)

You gotta link for that?

 

[Le breton]

You gotta link for that?

You probably can find in many places that the current seismic resistance requirement for nuclear power plants is based on 7.5 magnitude earthquakes. In France it is 6.5.

Some big shot, sorry can't remember his name, from either the French CEA or the appropriate governmental authority was explaining on France-inter yesterday that this was for an earthquake at the location of the plant and that they applied a factor 5 on top ( As far as I know a factor 3 on top of everything is standard practice for civil engineering for bridges, buildings, anything).

Tried to find his name but couldn't. I'll come back when I hear him again.