Nutrition

[durianrider]

That's a jump considering I mentioned nothing about my eating habits or why I objected to the images.

BroDeal, those first two pics did nothing for me, but those last two . . . I'm headed to the kitchen to see what I have.

I wasnt referring to anyone in particular.

But now you mention it, better hurry up and get in the kitchen, tuna just got put on the endangered species list and Japan is fishing out the last stocks cos the price is about to sky rocket. Actually, this is from 2007..http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/22/health/22iht-tuna.4291357.html
so make that the critically endangered list.. eat it while you can.

Here is a picture of vegan sushi. No heavy metals (tuna and swordfish have the highest heavy metal content of any food product), tuna and dolphin friendly and good for the waistline too. Sprinkle some flax seeds in there and you have over 50 times the Omega 3 fatty acid content. Delicious food without being violent.

Rice
Cucumber
Mirin
tofu/tempeh/avocado strips
flax/seaseme seeds.

 

[TopCarbon]

Durian, you are a Vegan. Great. It works for you and many others.

I am not, and based on the reaction of many, I am not alone. Posting inflammatory pictures rarely convinces anybody to change their dietary habits.

You are way over the top in defense of your veganism.

 

[durianrider]

Well durian I saw water and barley on that vegan pyramid so you're halfway to something worth putting in your body.

The reason people feel sick at the sight of slaughtered animals is because we are by and large an ignorant society since the inventions of modern conveniences. We don't have to do things for ourselves and we've become afraid of getting our hands bloody. People don't want to think how meat gets into the package any more than they want to think what happens when they flush the toilet. It doesn't mean that meat is bad for you. Of course you can be healthy on a vegan diet, nobody disputes that. Now why don't you post some pictures of the millions of high performance athletes who don't follow your chosen diet?

You have some good points, too bad they have to be rammed down our throats like the gospel according to fruit boy.

We used to think the earth was flat and anyone that said otherwise was called a crackpot.

Remember I aint ramm'n nothing down anyones throat by actually telling anyone to do any particular thing directly, despite people questioning my sexuality, gender, sanity, calling me abusive names!

One thing being a vegan has taught me is tolerance toward other living creatures. Forum members included.

 

[Road Hazard]

Who knew a thread on nutrition in the general forum could have as much drama as a Clinic thread.

I'm sure we can all think of anecdotal examples of vegan athletes and meat eating fatsos, as well as vegans who are quite evidently malnourished and meat eating athletes.

Personally, I've thought about the morality of eating animals who dream of life like I do, except on balance I get the very strong sense that they don't quite look forward to life like I do. They don't really have plans.

In terms of health, red meat in excess (or even in moderate abundance) is unhealthy, or so I understand. Fish and lean meats are healthy, and as far as I can tell from what the lord hath presented to mine eyes, an entirely natural and "intended" food source.

 

[TopCarbon]

Who knew a thread on nutrition in the general forum could have as much drama as a Clinic thread.

I'm sure we can all think of anecdotal examples of vegan athletes and meat eating fatsos, as well as vegans who are quite evidently malnourished and meat eating athletes.

Personally, I've thought about the morality of eating animals who dream of life like I do, except on balance I get the very strong sense that they don't quite look forward to life like I do. They don't really have plans.

In terms of health, red meat in excess (or even in moderate abundance) is unhealthy, or so I understand. Fish and lean meats are healthy, and as far as I can tell from what the lord hath presented to mine eyes, an entirely natural and "intended" food source.

When I see a Cow, on a bike, riding beside me, I will strongly reconsider eating meat.

 

[durianrider]

Durian, you are a Vegan. Great. It works for you and many others.

I am not, and based on the reaction of many, I am not alone. Posting inflammatory pictures rarely convinces anybody to change their dietary habits.

You are way over the top in defense of your veganism.

Its a forum, we are adults, we can enter into positive debates. Its all good. An objection is a request for more information...lets put the information on the table and learn from each other. Lifes too dull and boring otherwise.

 

[TopCarbon]

Its a forum, we are adults, we can enter into positive debates. Its all good. An objection is a request for more information...lets put the information on the table and learn from each other. Lifes too dull and boring otherwise.

agreed.

btw, my daughter is a vegetarian. she enjoys it, it works for her. She believe its right for her.

 

[durianrider]

Who knew a thread on nutrition in the general forum could have as much drama as a Clinic thread.

I'm sure we can all think of anecdotal examples of vegan athletes and meat eating fatsos, as well as vegans who are quite evidently malnourished and meat eating athletes.

Personally, I've thought about the morality of eating animals who dream of life like I do, except on balance I get the very strong sense that they don't quite look forward to life like I do. They don't really have plans.

In terms of health, red meat in excess (or even in moderate abundance) is unhealthy, or so I understand. Fish and lean meats are healthy, and as far as I can tell from what the lord hath presented to mine eyes, an entirely natural and "intended" food source.

Genisis 1:29
Leviticus 3:17

Someone said something about 'though shall not kill' and WWJD?

I used to think the same RH, but with all the science out there providing the dangers of fish, birds, pigs, horses, cat consumption etc the jury is out. Anyone can google up the 'china study', effects of dietary cholesterol/saturated fat/uric acid/benzopyrenes, harvard nurses study, pcrm, etc.

Ive travelled thru south east asia extensively over the last 6 years. Ive stayed with really nice people that ate cat, dog and rat as those are traditional fleshes in some parts. I wonder if they posted on here about eating cat legs for recovery if they would be accepted? I met a man living on the street in San Fran that was eating dog food on toast. He was telling me how bad off he was. I said 'bro, see that person other there eating a burger?' What is the difference? Its the same animal, same factory, same body parts all mashed together, same nutrient profile?' He said 'I guess you gotta point and my meal cos me 1.20$ and his probably a lot more...'

Sometimes contrast is a powerful thing. Cycling around the world talking with people from all demographic groups has given me some contrasts for sure.

As for whats actually in a hamburger these days..check this link out!! They even made a book and movie about it! 'Fast food nation'
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Health/What's_In_Meat_FFN.html Crikey!

 

[Road Hazard]

If eating meat was so natural, how come people feel sick at the sight of slaughtered animals when they are having bacon and eggs for breakfast? I dont mind if someone chops a carrot in front of me? Or boils up some porridge? Remember that Jamie Oliver show were he killed the baby animal? That caused an uproar amongst the crew that eat meat. They said 'Jamie, you cant do that!' Jamie said 'Well this is what it takes to put the food on the table if and if people are not prepared to kill their animals then they shouldnt expect others too..'

Frankly speaking I think this is an interesting although slightly off-center argument, but it gets to deeper issues with modern day society. I ain't no essayist so I'll leave the commentary to them.

Suffice to say that if the rule were that one had to face the production of modern day life or go without it, we wouldn't have plastic, gas, garbage dumps, or even recycling plants. Nor would we bury our dead or perform autopsies. Nor investigate murders or have prosecutors face criminals in court much less jails.

 

[durianrider]

Frankly speaking I think this is an interesting although slightly off-center argument, but it gets to deeper issues with modern day society. I ain't no essayist so I'll leave the commentary to them.

Suffice to say that if the rule were that one had to face the production of modern day life or go without it, we wouldn't have plastic, gas, garbage dumps, or even recycling plants. Nor would we bury our dead or perform autopsies. Nor investigate murders or have prosecutors face criminals in court much less jails.

Great points RH, but like taking a bathroom break somethings are a part of life and somethings get minimised when one certain product gets consumed less. The only vegan crim's I know are crew that paint walls and break windows. There has been many studies done on diet and violent crimes. As is the fact that the UN even says animal product industries cause the most waste, resource usage and green house gas emissions. But perhaps thats another topic for another day.

 

[durianrider]

agreed.

btw, my daughter is a vegetarian. she enjoys it, it works for her. She believe its right for her.

And you thought you could come here and get some escape from the vego's! Just dont tell her about the book 'skinny *****' by Rory Freedman or you will never hear the end of it!

 

[Big GMaC]

That looks good, Almost like the Dog I ate in China

You should go to South China and see how people there get by. They eat everything. Insects, Eels, Dogs, Cats. And didn't look too fat to me

 

[durianrider]

Your spot on Big Mac, they are pretty small people but when they get the cash, they can afford the western diet rich in animal product and they get the same disease rates as we do. In rural China they dont even have a word for osteoporosis cos they dont drink milk/eat much animal in those parts (animal protein is the main cause for osteoporosis). Maybe a few praying mantids squashed up in the rice and veg. Thats about it. Half a frog leg a week if they are lucky. A rat for xmas. Then again, China has more vegans than any nation cos of their buddhism.

Here is dog served in Australian supermarket.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0M7L0sq3Uo

 

[craig1985]

I once saw jellyfish sushi for sale in Japan, and the thought "DO NOT WANT" kept ringing in my head. But then the idea of eating jellyfish just seemed revolting.

 

[TopCarbon]

I once saw jellyfish sushi for sale in Japan, and the thought "DO NOT WANT" kept ringing in my head. But then the idea of eating jellyfish just seemed revolting.

a little peanut butter and it would be fine.

 

[twothirds]

I have to ask, and not as an attack, but what does it matter to you what anyone else eats?

Why is it that vegans are so pushy with their views? I have vegan friends that behave like this as well, and I can never get a rational explanation for the fervor or zeal behind their missonary approach to trying to convert the whole world to veganism.

Just like you, they bring certain arguments to the table that are pro vegan/anti meat. They show me pictures of fat people eating meat. I give them pro meat arguments for why I eat meat. I show them pictures of fat vegans. For some reason they are dismissive of anything I bring to the table.

This isn't a personal flame at you durian. I'm of the "do what you like as long as you're not harming anyone else" mindset. To me, what you eat is a personal choice, and yours alone. I don't go around telling vegans that they should eat meat. I don't criticize their choices, and neither should they criticize mine.

It's funny how some vegans (some, not all), will criticize your choices, and continue to push their agenda, yet can't take the heat when you turn around and critize their lifestyle choices (this is true for much more than veganism, and extends to people of many walks of life/orientation). Where do people get off thinking that they are saints meant to save mankind?

 

[ihavenolimbs]

Why is it that vegans are so pushy with their views?

I find the reverse. If a meatie finds out that I'm a vegan then I have to put up with an endless stream of foolishness.

We've read books (an excellent one is "The China Study") and articles documenting the benefits: health, economic, environmental, and even athletic-performance. Many veg*ns then feel the need to share this information. Most learn pretty quickly that non-veg*ns get very defensive (almost like they're trying to rationalise their behaviour), and we give up trying to share our hard-fought-for knowledge.

I don't bother trying to inform people, except for answering specific questions they've asked. It is not our problem if you: die earlier (and typically far more painfully), smell bad, or we beat you in bike races more easily.

 

[twothirds]

I find the reverse. If a meatie finds out that I'm a vegan then I have to put up with an endless stream of foolishness.

So we can agree that it goes back and forth, tit for tat, so why don't we all just stop it?

We've read books (an excellent one is "The China Study") and articles documenting the benefits: health, economic, environmental, and even athletic-performance. Many veg*ns then feel the need to share this information. Most learn pretty quickly that non-veg*ns get very defensive (almost like they're trying to rationalise their behaviour), and we give up trying to share our hard-fought-for knowledge.

Just as there are articles and documentation showing there are benefits to the lifestyle, there are also articles and documents that present counter arguments that are justifiable as well. I like to read both sides, as I do have a genuine interest in things that concern my health, the envireonment, etc, and am pretty open to most ideas if there is enough research to back up the claims. I also don't see how that knowledge is so hard ot obtain. Any good bookstore has a whole shelf devoted to veganism not to mention magazines and other periodicals geared to the lifestyle. It's pretty easy for me to obtain.

Yes everyone is going to try to rationalize their personal choices when somebody else questions them. It's a good thing humans stand by their beliefs, if we didn't then integrity wouldn't exist.

I don't bother trying to inform people, except for answering specific questions they've asked.

Awesome, I wish more people were like you when it came to their personal beliefs. Your approach of imforming people instead of pushing an agenda does more to endear people to a cause than have people react in a stonewalling manner.

It is not our problem if you: die earlier (and typically far more painfully), smell bad, or we beat you in bike races more easily.

All opinions that vegans spout forth if you ask me. A few personal examples. I had a grandfather that lived to be 98. Died of natural causes in his sleep. He had a diet that most would deem unhealthy -butter, eggs, bacon, but he never ate anything processed. It was all stuff he raised on his farm or bought at the market. I also had a family friend who was a tee-totaling vegan most of her life (since she was 12), and died of lung cancer (at 46) despite never smoking (or working in a bar) and living 2 hours from any metropolis most of their life. And I've beaten plenty of vegans in bike races .

 

[craig1985]

I suppose it can't get any worse then this:

You are so going to hell for eating that.

 

[durianrider]

I could beat 99% of the population riding a bmx up a hill if they were on a 10$k roady. Doesnt mean I should stay riding a bmx though does it. I could out run 99% of the population wearing my shoes on the wrong feet. Doesnt mean its the best way to wear shoes. What I do find helpful, is comparing ourselves to ourselves. Ask ourselves, were we are today and where we want to be in the future and what we have to do to get there. Are todays diet and lifestyle choices going to take us where we want to go? Or do we have to take action and make some positive lasting changes?

Does anyone else here have smokers say 'why do you non smokers always have to say something..why can you mind your own business..' .Heck, Im the guy that walks past someone holding a baby in one hand and a cigarette in another and says 'why dont you give your kid a cigarette. Why dont I mind my own business?

Well I say, clean air, healthy societys,child abuse, clean water ways, abundant forrests, healthy economies, enough food for everyone is everyones business.. and a plant based diet meets these targets head on.

For me being a vegan has made me a way better bike rider and as a longterm bonus, its helping the planet, my health and the animals. Sounds like a win win situation to me...

Nothing gives me greater satisfaction than helping people help themselves get fit and healthy. Judging by our current global health and fitness crisis, I say that the diets we have been eating, just aint tak'n us were we need and want to go...

I did a 24hr race last weekend and got the Brisbane marathon this weekend. Thats the sort of stuff I dreamed of doing when I had chronic fatigue as a meat eater. Now Im living my dreams. Some people find that a source of irritation, some find it a source of inspiration. I guess at the end of the day all we can do is like Ghandi said 'be the change you wanna see'.

 

[durianrider]

As for longevity, in John Robbins (son of baskin robbins ice cream)book 'health at 100' he shows that the longest lived tribes where ones that ate the least fat and animal products and most high carbohydrates/ fruits and veg. Hunzas, vilicabambas, turrahumar indians etc. http://www.healthyat100.org/

The eskimo's and Massai' tribes experienced the shortest lifespans and consumed the most animal products.

This lady looks good for a 100. And she explains why.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr19gqQhJhQ

If I can prevent/decrease/reverse my incidence of stroke, heart disease, cancer, obesity, diabeties..via my diet and lifestyle, heck, Id like that sort of info rammed in my face vs another meaningless TV advert by Sam Neal.

If I died tommorrow, people might be quick to blame my diet vs the thousands of burgers Ive eaten and drugs I used to take. Some people have better genetics, past health history etc but we can all do our best to improve on what we have. Just cos your born with Huffy/Giant/Merida genetics doesnt mean you can 'bling' out your health and make the most of what you got.

Like my smoker friends, if they want to hear it, its peachy, if they dont want to hear it, its preachy. We are all human at the end of the day and we can all do our bit to make this world a better place, cos its just more fun being part of the solution vs part of the problem. And lets remember nobody is perfect but everybody can make excellent choices in the moment.

 

[twothirds]

Much appreciated duriaN.

A great insight into your motivation for going vegan. I have to admit that at one point i did seriously consider it myself. I tried the less meat route and my health situation worsened (this was with help from an established vegan when making the necessary diet changes). I got sick more often, and my performance decreased. That was one of my reasons for switching back.

Once i also looked into where all the vegans here in canada were getting their food, it also caused me to reconsider the vegan position. Not that people around here can't live the vegan diet with local produce, but most if not all, choose to include exotic fruits and vegetables in their diets. I don't see anything wrong with enjoying a mango here and there, but to hear people were eating these foods to help the environment, well, i saw that has hypocritical as the carbon cost of bringing such foods to these shores is not helping the environment at all. So the hypocritical choices i saw vegans here making was a big turn off.

Thirdly, I digest meat with no problems. Never had any gastric issues with it, and i have canine teeth in my mouth. These two indications lead me to believe that we are omnivores, and as such i choose to eat meat and all the other abundant living things that i can get locally. Eating locally is my way of helping the environment. The beef i eat, comes from a local farmer he freely grazes highland cattle. I raise my own chickens and they get to hunt and peck at all the food they can find out in my fields. Produce and fruit are all purchased locally and some frozen for the winter months. I see this (my own opinion which i have rationalized to myself through my own research) as the healthiest, lowest impact way for me to eat and live.

P.S. I noticed that you ride a bamboo Calfee. Kudos on the bamboo choice, but did you ever consider a more local builder for bamboo to offset the carbon cost of shipping your green frame to Austrailia?

 

[twothirds]

Also at durian, do you eat any dairy products?

 

[Martin318is]

Its a forum, we are adults, we can enter into positive debates. Its all good. An objection is a request for more information...lets put the information on the table and learn from each other. Lifes too dull and boring otherwise.

No I think you are confused about his point.

His objection is not a request for more information, its a request for you to just put the information in one place instead of copying the same posts across at least 3 threads (that I have seen you do it on).

That type of thing will lead to posts being deleted and/or threads being merged - and doesn't help people see your point of view in a positive light

 

[Boeing]

I could beat 99% of the population riding a bmx up a hill if they were on a 10$k roady. Doesnt mean I should stay riding a bmx though does it. I could out run 99% of the population wearing my shoes on the wrong feet. Doesnt mean its the best way to wear shoes. What I do find helpful, is comparing ourselves to ourselves. Ask ourselves, were we are today and where we want to be in the future and what we have to do to get there. Are todays diet and lifestyle choices going to take us where we want to go? Or do we have to take action and make some positive lasting changes?

Does anyone else here have smokers say 'why do you non smokers always have to say something..why can you mind your own business..' .Heck, Im the guy that walks past someone holding a baby in one hand and a cigarette in another and says 'why dont you give your kid a cigarette. Why dont I mind my own business?

Well I say, clean air, healthy societys,child abuse, clean water ways, abundant forrests, healthy economies, enough food for everyone is everyones business.. and a plant based diet meets these targets head on.

For me being a vegan has made me a way better bike rider and as a longterm bonus, its helping the planet, my health and the animals. Sounds like a win win situation to me...

Nothing gives me greater satisfaction than helping people help themselves get fit and healthy. Judging by our current global health and fitness crisis, I say that the diets we have been eating, just aint tak'n us were we need and want to go...

I did a 24hr race last weekend and got the Brisbane marathon this weekend. Thats the sort of stuff I dreamed of doing when I had chronic fatigue as a meat eater. Now Im living my dreams. Some people find that a source of irritation, some find it a source of inspiration. I guess at the end of the day all we can do is like Ghandi said 'be the change you wanna see'.

is that a leather saddle?

come on now....I got dropped by a BMX bike up a hill on my Roadie once here in So Cal many years ago. turns out it was a famous rider guy on like 190 cranks back then. PM if you want name. maybe he was a vegan.. maybe you?

Vegan is interesting. how has it made you a better rider apart from perhaps weight loss