Nutrition

[durianrider]

Its a specialized Toupe. I probably rode over some ants on my way to the bike shop and the truck that delivered it, the dude probably ate a burger for lunch so then technically Im not a vegan perhaps..

How has a high carb, low fat vegan diet helped me performance wise? Great question.

* Weight loss for sure. No secret why the top riders eliminate or cut down their animal product foods like milk, eggs, dairy etc to drop the blubber and no secret that Sumo wrestlers laugh at the idea of being a vegan. They need all the body blubber they can store. Fair enough. So Im riding lighter with less training, eating more food than ever in my life and putting out better times on the climbs Ive been riding since 97. 2009 I set my best times up the Adelaide climbs. You got books like 'skinny *****' and 'skinny *******'. You guess what diet they are promoting? Skinny cyclists do better, you just dont want to starve and become a scrawny cyclist..that aint no fun. You see a lot of anorexics come over to a vegan diet(cos it keeps you lighter naturally) and just starve more and go off the deep end. Then they end up in hospital and the medical journals get written and the media forgets to mention the 'vegan' actually was an anorexic that was 6ft tall and 48kg..doesnt matter what diet you eat, you starve, your in trouble.

Hematocrit and hemoglobin- They go up when carb intake goes up and fat intake goes down. Here are some recent blood tests. They start 5mins in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaFYFm2nP7E Your blood gets thinner the less fat/protein you eat. Its easier to cut the fat and protein way back as a vegan.

*Vo2 max - Mine went from 67 to 74 measured at the same bodyweight. Same lab protocol. Its not a common concept in sports nutrition to eliminate dairy products when Nestle and co sponsor most sports institutes..but for the savvy riders, they read between the lines and join the dots. Dairy's main protein is casein. Casein is used in wood glue. Glued lungs anyone?

*Recovery -When you dont have a steak digesting for a week in your stomach/colon, then you have a lot more room for carbs. Nobody runs out of protein or fat during training/racing but even Contador has ran out of carbs and bonked from his glycogen tank running empty. Eating animal products just hinders carb uptake, transfer and delivery to the cells as stomach digestion is compromised when we consume foods with zero fiber. (animal products have zero fiber). My biggest week as a carnivore was 1000km, now its 1530km. My biggest day was 257 and now its 515km solo. Biggest year was 12 445 and now its 30 020km. Ive cycled over 170 000km as a vegan..Im convinced.

*Testosterone - Why pay the doctor for scrotum patches when you can raise yours naturally and never get busted? Here is a study confirming my hippy rant.

‎"The study measured testosterone levels in 696
Oxford University men. Of the study participants,
233 were vegan (ate no animal products) and 237
were vegetarian (ate milk and dairy products).
The remaining 237 subjects were men who ate meat
on most days of the week...vegans had higher
testosterone levels than vegetarians and meat
eaters."

British Journal of Cancer, 83(1), July 2000


*You get more chicks- anyone seen the ratio of vegan chicks to vegan guys? You do the math.And hey, no fak'n and sneak'n bacon guys, cos real chicks realise real lies. See this guy in the pic, he went vegan on friday morning and by friday night..look what happend.

 

[durianrider]

Much appreciated duriaN.

A great insight into your motivation for going vegan. I have to admit that at one point i did seriously consider it myself. I tried the less meat route and my health situation worsened (this was with help from an established vegan when making the necessary diet changes). I got sick more often, and my performance decreased. That was one of my reasons for switching back.

Once i also looked into where all the vegans here in canada were getting their food, it also caused me to reconsider the vegan position. Not that people around here can't live the vegan diet with local produce, but most if not all, choose to include exotic fruits and vegetables in their diets. I don't see anything wrong with enjoying a mango here and there, but to hear people were eating these foods to help the environment, well, i saw that has hypocritical as the carbon cost of bringing such foods to these shores is not helping the environment at all. So the hypocritical choices i saw vegans here making was a big turn off.

Thirdly, I digest meat with no problems. Never had any gastric issues with it, and i have canine teeth in my mouth. These two indications lead me to believe that we are omnivores, and as such i choose to eat meat and all the other abundant living things that i can get locally. Eating locally is my way of helping the environment. The beef i eat, comes from a local farmer he freely grazes highland cattle. I raise my own chickens and they get to hunt and peck at all the food they can find out in my fields. Produce and fruit are all purchased locally and some frozen for the winter months. I see this (my own opinion which i have rationalized to myself through my own research) as the healthiest, lowest impact way for me to eat and live.

P.S. I noticed that you ride a bamboo Calfee. Kudos on the bamboo choice, but did you ever consider a more local builder for bamboo to offset the carbon cost of shipping your green frame to Austrailia?

If you want diet advice, take it from a fellow athlete. I shudder when i hear sincere but sincerely wrong sedentary people giving dietary advice but they cant even run around the block. Or you got registered dieticians that cant go a morning without a cuppa and they are giving 'high energy diet advice'... When I went vegan, I tracked down the crew getting the results I desired vs a bong smoking, emo that is vegan for fashion reasons and 6 months later is back on the macca's. Not that makes someone a bad person but just like a good bike mechanic does a better job, its worth getting the right information. Dr McDougall nutritionally coached Carl Lewis and the results speak for themselves about Carl's experience as an olypmic champion vegan.

Coke, white bread and canola oil are all vegan but I dont recommend anyone consume them. Junk food is junk food, vegan or otherwise.

Based on the data Ive put up on other posts, you can't get greener than vegan. Australian meat is local and according to the CSIRO we have cleared 85% of our forrests solely for that purpose. Heaps sustainable..
Here is a great link. One of thousands on the subject. http://earthfirst.com/meat-eating-environmentalist-a-contradiction-in-terms/

Look at fisheries, we have eaten 90% of the worlds large fish stocks. It takes 4kg of wild fish to produce 1kg of farmed fish. Insects have the same protein content as flesh, our ancestors ate plenty of roaches, why cant we? Oh yeah, it doesnt make much money in a western system...but hey, they eat roaches in Thailand where I spend time kick box train'n. They eat em after training with a bit of chilli powder.

 

[craig1985]

I seldom eat seafood, but then that's because I don't like the taste. I have a mate in England who went vegetarian purely because he didn't like eating meat as a kid. He was five or six and he's the same age as me, and has always been like that.

 

[durianrider]

Good for you Craig as you decrease your heavy metal intake massively that way. Mad cow disease has inspired a lot of people in Europe and North America to make the jump. I was already mad so it didnt bother me. I think after eating 72 bananas in a day, I got 'mad banana syndrome'.

 

[durianrider]

And then we got world hunger...16kg of grain to produce 1kg of animal flesh..

So sure, me going vegan to increase my athletic performance sounds pretty selfish and vain, but there is always bigger reasons that arent always accepted to readily on forums. But I wont go there any further. So whats stiffer, dura ace 7700 or 7800 cranks and by what lineage percentile?

 

[Big GMaC]

And then we got world hunger...16kg of grain to produce 1kg of animal flesh..

Don't animals deserve to live too? Just because they take feeding.

The irony of veganism is that they 'love' fellow animals, but if no one was eating meat then there would be no point in humans keeping domesticated animals and the land they use as pasture would be put to more economic use than keeping animals no-one eats.

So think of the animals. Eat them

 

[durianrider]

Robert Millar, UK's best ever cyclist, according to the polls and his palmere's. His take on nutrition.


robert on food 'n' stuff

this snippet comes from a 1992 edition of the comic and suggests that millar was ahead of his time as far as eating was concerned.
millar is one of the few vegetarians in the professional bunch, but as he explained, it's not because he hates meat, but because he feels he rides better that way. "it's not a principle - it's a personal thing. i've read a lot of books about it"
as well as meat, egg yolks are out. egg whites are ok. millar says "a lot of diet is what you don't eat, having enough willpower. but if you never eat anything, you crack up. you see so many guys who are good athletes and put so many restrictions on themselves, that they crack up."
millar gets his protein through cereals, fruit and amino acid supplements. "in a normal diet, you take vitamin supplements anyway: if you take a protein supplement, that's the same."

 

[Boeing]

durianrider

can you give us a sample of your daily training menu and what do you eat while training?

learning to cook, yikes might be a deal killer..

If i lived in England again I would totally go Vegan no problem. They can't cook a steak anyway....

btw:I asked how many vegans friends I have on face book and got one reply: "My food shyts on your food"

 

[oncehadhair]

And then we got world hunger...16kg of grain to produce 1kg of animal flesh..

So sure, me going vegan to increase my athletic performance sounds pretty selfish and vain, but there is always bigger reasons that arent always accepted to readily on forums. But I wont go there any further. So whats stiffer, dura ace 7700 or 7800 cranks and by what lineage percentile?

As you probably well know, in areas if the world where people are starving, it is not the result of feeding vegetable matter to animals.

Humans have evolved as omnivores.

The amino acid makeup of fish, eggs and many animal products meets the AA requirements of humans better than any nut or grain - and is more easily digested.

Be a vegan if you want but there are plenty of meat eaters who are healthier than you. Maybe if you consumed some animal protein your cycling performance would improve.

And as far as women go - you can have your wasted, dreadlocked vegans but I prefer my ladies to be meat eaters.

 

[Big GMaC]

I prefer my ladies to be meat eaters.

[/Thread].......

 

[Polyarmour]

Much appreciated duriaN.

Thirdly, I digest meat with no problems. Never had any gastric issues with it, and i have canine teeth in my mouth. These two indications lead me to believe that we are omnivores, and as such i choose to eat meat and all the other abundant living things that i can get locally.

I've always been in two minds about whether we are supposed to eat meat. Firstly let me say that I eat meat and I like meat, however would I eat meat if I had to eat it raw? Mmmm ...not a chance. If I was given a choice to take my protein from raw meat or some beans, the beans would win hands down. And eating meat raw IS eating it in its natural state. I don't see any other carnivores cooking their meat and let's be honest this is the only way we can consume it. (even sushi is drowned in soy and wasabi to hide the flavour) Why is it that cooking meat changes the flavour so much and suddenly makes it so palatable? Is this one of nature's accidents? I'm happy to eat most of the fruits and vegetables raw.... but my meat has to be cooked. Is this really what mankind the animal is supposed to do? Are we the only animal on the planet that needs a Weber BBQ to survive in the wild?

 

[velocycling]

but if no one was eating meat then there would be no point in humans keeping domesticated animals and the land they use as pasture would be put to more economic use than keeping animals no-one eats.

So think of the animals. Eat them

Wow London must have changed since I was there.

Biggy how does your dogs and cats taste?

 

[craig1985]

Whilst I'm not going veg, I'm certainly going to be looking more into the nutrition side of things, and look at what foods I can cut out, or if I eat too much of it, cut it right back or remove it full stop. I'm not going to go to a nutritionist, because unless they understand cycling, I feel as though I may not get the best advice. I have no problem going uphill at all, in fact I often drop lighter riders then me, but I could always go a little bit quicker.

 

[durianrider]

1. Youd be better with a steak in your jersey pocket.. Lets remember I was eating animals and consuming their mammary juices when I first started competitive cycling. I developed chronic fatigue and wasnt eating any junk food at the time. I was a 'wholefooder'. But still, the animal products were slowing down my health and fitness so I did an experiement after a friend suggested it. I was deeply offended my friend even suggested it cos I prided myself on how well I was eating at the time. He said 'yeah, your eating great and can even ride your bike to work no more and used to do 250km in a day no probs..looks like your eating great Harley...' But I had nothing to lose and lots go gain so I went vego for a week and felt way better and then wanted more so went vegan. Over the years I ate more and more fruit instead of grains and thats brought me to where I am today.

2. Vegan chicks are all stoner dreadlock hippys!... Dread locks aint my thing but lots of peeps like em. Fair enough. As for vegan chicks all having dread locks..out of literally thousands of vegan chicks Ive talked with over the last 9 years, only a handful would have dreads benefits. If someone wants a sterotype of the average vegan female, go look at my friends list on facebook. For me the average vegan lady is about 30's, 40's,50's looks stunning for their age, has a fit body, has a lot of heart and intellect and can discern fact from fiction pretty quickly. Feel free to check the other photos Ive put up on this thread..

3. My mate that uses a bench press said that egg whites are complete protein.. Like Ive said before and provided the medical journal links, all plant foods contain all 8 essential amino acids and digest better. Foods with no fiber (animal products have zero fiber) dont digest well for humans. Sure Ive worked in the fitness industry for years and we used that sound bite' complete protein' but its just like saying that colnago sponsors cycling teams..yeah, so do other companies..so do plant foods have complete proteins and its scientifically vs gym rat proven.

4. Lots of meat eaters are healthier than you..go on, have a big mac lad!... I did a lot of drugs in my teen days, was always a sick child with dairy allergies..so I aint invincible but according to the peer reviewed scientific studies that show the links with animal products and cancer, stroke, obesity, diabeties, arthritis, osteoporosis etc..then Im sure doing my bit to increase the health I currently have and minimise any bad genetic factors.

Yesterday did a nice hard 90km bunch ride up some steep ciimbs with the local crew. I ran my 6th marathon today. Didnt set a pb as I did a 24hr race last weekend so just went out to notch another one on the marathon belt. Still passed a hundred or so people with my 'go vegan' singlet. Got a 220km fun ride this weekend.

 

[durianrider]

I've always been in two minds about whether we are supposed to eat meat. Firstly let me say that I eat meat and I like meat, however would I eat meat if I had to eat it raw? Mmmm ...not a chance. If I was given a choice to take my protein from raw meat or some beans, the beans would win hands down. And eating meat raw IS eating it in its natural state. I don't see any other carnivores cooking their meat and let's be honest this is the only way we can consume it. (even sushi is drowned in soy and wasabi to hide the flavour) Why is it that cooking meat changes the flavour so much and suddenly makes it so palatable? Is this one of nature's accidents? I'm happy to eat most of the fruits and vegetables raw.... but my meat has to be cooked. Is this really what mankind the animal is supposed to do? Are we the only animal on the planet that needs a Weber BBQ to survive in the wild?

You got some valid points there Polyarmour and one that I bring to the table when discussing the subject with certain university professors/diet book authors/live presenters etc..none of them EVER take my offer up on a me bringing them a live chicken and them biting in to it like a peach, stalk of wheat, bean or nut..

Here is a video I did just to show people Im open to other peoples lifestyles. He is a mate of mine and eats a diet of raw meat, eggs, milk and a few green bananas.Not something I would recommend but here is his opinion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZzbREplf40

Carnivores dont die from food poisoning but my mate almost did in this vid from raw meat.

 

[durianrider]

Whilst I'm not going veg, I'm certainly going to be looking more into the nutrition side of things, and look at what foods I can cut out, or if I eat too much of it, cut it right back or remove it full stop. I'm not going to go to a nutritionist, because unless they understand cycling, I feel as though I may not get the best advice. I have no problem going uphill at all, in fact I often drop lighter riders then me, but I could always go a little bit quicker.

Even Schlek and Contador could be a bit quicker..everyone can be a bit fitter and healthier..

 

[durianrider]

durianrider

can you give us a sample of your daily training menu and what do you eat while training?

learning to cook, yikes might be a deal killer..

If i lived in England again I would totally go Vegan no problem. They can't cook a steak anyway....

btw:I asked how many vegans friends I have on face book and got one reply: "My food shyts on your food"

I did a vid on my typical daily diet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUnY4vXH3w8

And here are my blood tests after being a vegan since 2001. Cos I can already here people say'n but you must be horribly deficient!?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O_A6Mh1J48

I personally prefer fruits as my source of carbs but others prefer rice, pasta, spelt, kamut, millet, quinoa, porridge, cous cous, polenta, corn, barley, wild rices etc..Its a bit like tyres...there is a lot out there, try a few and see what you like the feel of..

I like to get at least 3500 -5000cals a day or more if Im wanting to increase my mental/physical activity. Regardless, of how much Im doing, I always eat a minimum of 10g of carbs per kg of bodyweight. At 66kg for me thats 660g of carbs per day so thats like 30 -35 large bananas or if people are not eating fruit it would be from other carbs sources ie 1kg dry weight rice, pasta, oats etc.

So a typical vegan elite athlete diet of around 3500cals-4500cals, intake would be like this.

Breakfast: Fruit smoothy- 20 dates blended with 5 bananas and water. 2000cals.

Or
500g of porridge with soymilk/rice milk/oat milk, some chopped fruit/maple syrup/cinamon etc. 2000cals.

Lunch: Big tofu burger with salad. 700cals approx.

Or 500g dry weight of rice, polenta, cous cous, pasta cooked up and served with salad/ sauce. 1500cals.

Dinner: Same as lunch or maybe big heaping bowls of cereals, rices, pasta dishes etc.

This generic menu is low in fat, carb rich, nutrient dense and would contain all essential vitamins and nutrients. But just like all pro athletes do, taking a vitamin supp like b12 doesnt hurt as we live in a pretty b12 deficient earth these days.

Brendan Brazier has a good book called 'thrive diet'
Dr Douglas Graham has a good book called '80/10/10'
Dr McDougall has lots of great recipie DVD's
http://www.organicathlete.org has a free ebook menu planner with caloric breakdown etc.

Basically this diet is quick to make, very nutrient dense, very low in saturated fat, low in sodium/refined sugars/food additives etc, zero cholesterol, good for athletes glycogen stores + protein intakes etc and after we find out our fav plant foods, TASTES AMAZING!!!

Cos the real reason we eat is for taste yeah? At least I do. I wouldnt have got this far if my food tasted like stodge every meal..

 

[craig1985]

I thought pasta contained egg in it?

 

[Big GMaC]

I thought pasta contained egg in it?

Only some fresh pastas do. Most are durum wheat semolina.

Ok, I see your daily Diet there Durain, where are you getting protein?

Fruit - No
Porridge - No
Pasta - No
Tofu Burger - Not much and what if you have pasta/rice/cous cous
Same again.

Do you ever use protein supplements?

 

[craig1985]

Only some fresh pastas do. Most are durum wheat semolina.

Ok, I see your daily Diet there Durain, where are you getting protein?

Fruit - No
Porridge - No
Pasta - No
Tofu Burger - Not much and what if you have pasta/rice/cous cous
Same again.

Do you ever use protein supplements?

Is that the stuff that you buy at your local supermarket, and is that stuff actually good for you, or just crap?

 

[TopCarbon]

Only some fresh pastas do. Most are durum wheat semolina.

Ok, I see your daily Diet there Durain, where are you getting protein?

Fruit - No
Porridge - No
Pasta - No
Tofu Burger - Not much and what if you have pasta/rice/cous cous
Same again.

Do you ever use protein supplements?

what is that?

 

[twothirds]

what is that?

Depending on what part of the world you are from the grain that's used can differ, but i always grew up with it being cooked buckwheat. Just like using whole raw (unrolled) oats for oatmeal.

 

[Big GMaC]

Is that the stuff that you buy at your local supermarket, and is that stuff actually good for you, or just crap?

Thats like almost ALL pasta. You can get white or whole grain, both will be durum wheat, the white like white bread is more refined with the tougher bits, and the dark wheat pasta is like brown bread, heavier and 'better' for you. You have to cook it longer or it is really quite tough.

Yeah, like standard dried pasta.

 

[durianrider]

You have to look harder to find pasta with egg added than pasta sans egg.

 

[durianrider]

Only some fresh pastas do. Most are durum wheat semolina.

Ok, I see your daily Diet there Durain, where are you getting protein?

Fruit - No
Porridge - No
Pasta - No
Tofu Burger - Not much and what if you have pasta/rice/cous cous
Same again.

Do you ever use protein supplements?

This is the myth in society that plant foods dont contain any protein. Actually all non refined plant foods contain protein and ALL 8 essential amino acids. Im not talking oil, sugar and white flour Im talking fruits, veg, whole grains etc.

Using cronometer,a free nutritional analysis programme off the net, its also a caloric calculator referencing the USDA. I got 143g of protein from that above daily menu plain JUST from 500g brown rice, 500g of oats and 300g of cornflakes..thats not including any soy products, fruits, veg, etc. So just those 3 food portions contain well over the average intake of protein for the average westerner. Actually thats the reason I prefer fruit vs grains etc cos fruit has a lot less protein and from a health and fitness perspective, less is more. Its like someone riding a 63cm Cannondale cos the sales rep says' more is better mate! you could ride a 48, but you get more frame for the same price! thats a good deal ay? '


More is not better. Just like training, Its a goldilocks paradigm. Not too much, not too little, just right. Human mothers breastmilk is 5% calories coming from protein..fruit is 3-7% calories from protein..Nature has got it sorted, all we have to do is get the knowledge,believe it and put it into practise.

There isnt even a medical word for protein deficiency. Not even marasmus or kwashiorkor, as these terms refer to caloric deficiency.

One TV show I did, the overweight (but nice all the same) nutritionist said 'fruit has zero protein, calcium and iron...' I said 'Are you taking bets? Cos Id like to put down 50 000$ on that challenge..' Lets just say that my comment didnt make the editing room but hers did..

Do you take protein supplements? I dont as a vegan but used to as a meat eater. Walk into any health food store, gym,natropath's office etc and ask ' I eat heaps of meat and heaps of dairy, do you think I need to take a protein supp cos Im training hard? 99% of them will say yes.

Its ironic that the people that consume the most protein/vitamin/mineral supplements are the ones that eat the most animal products (mainstream bodybuilders) and these crew are the first ones to say, you wont get enough protein/vitamins/minerals as a vegan..but if they are getting enough cos they eat flesh, then come come they buy those 2 gallon whey protein isolates etc every month or 2?