Official Alberto Contador hearing thread

[sulgpallur]

I apologize if the topic already been up, but more than 1000 comments are a bit to much to go through.
I just have a question about the case.
Unless Contador gets acquitted he will lose a lot of results from 2010 and 2011, and I´ve heard rumors this should/could most likely cost him quite a lot of money, in the area of $100 million?
To me this amount sounds insane if it´s true, so I would appreciate if someone with bigger knowledge perhaps could explain (or refute) how this number is possible.

And to Python, I hope your family member are ok.

That seems indeed quite a big sum of money.
I doubt he got so much prize money for winning Tour, Giro + other smaller races, because they would want their money back.

I would also be surprised, if sponsors want their money back, after having continued to sponsor him until now, but maybe he has some clause in his contract for damaging sponsors name and has to payback multiple times the amount he got from them

 

[doolols]

Maybe the "costing in the area of $100million" is in future earnings, rather than cash now?

 

[cycladianpirate]

work like what?
If AC (or Saxo) bribed anybody (emphasizing IF), we can only speculate about how the deal was done, how the money (or cookies, hookers, or whatever) flew, who promised what to whom, etc.
We're still in the dark as to how Lance bribed the UCI.
we know it happened, but everybody's still guessing where and how the money flew. In other words, we are still guessing how it worked. But it worked alright.

Not to speak about rumors of bribery in the world of, say, football (FIFA, UEFA). Of course, these are just rumors, but are you willing to claim that they are conspiracies? Nah... but how does it work? You tell me. Bribes come in different shapes.


Of course, CAS is not FIFA or UCI, and CAS has a much greater level of independency, I assume.
But the world of sports is too corrupt to not accept the idea of CAS panel members being bribed as a possibility at the very least.

Well. Yes, of course, everything is a possibility. But I go back to my original point. How much would Bertie have to spend to get witnesses and CAS panel members 'on side'? The latter have a huge amount to lose if they get caught.

I'm not suggesting for an instant that these people are angels, merely that the practicalities of 'fixing' a CAS panel are beyond AC's means.

But you go further and suggest that sponsors might get involved in such dirty tricks. I'm sure that the Saxo Bank board isn't entirely delighted by these turn of events, but mitigating their loss by bribery????

I just can't see it. Not due to any sense of 'fair play', but rather because they wouldn't risk their share options in such a cavalier manner.

 

[sniper]

Well. Yes, of course, everything is a possibility. But I go back to my original point. How much would Bertie have to spend to get witnesses and CAS panel members 'on side'? The latter have a huge amount to lose if they get caught.

I'm not suggesting for an instant that these people are angels, merely that the practicalities of 'fixing' a CAS panel are beyond AC's means.

But you go further and suggest that sponsors might get involved in such dirty tricks. I'm sure that the Saxo Bank board isn't entirely delighted by these turn of events, but mitigating their loss by bribery????

I just can't see it. Not due to any sense of 'fair play', but rather because they wouldn't risk their share options in such a cavalier manner.

IMO, you're seriously overestimating the moral and intellectual capacities of some of the players involved here.

What about Verbruggen? He surely didn't need LA's money. Nonetheless he took it. Probably business as usual for a slick ******* like him.
Now he's about to pay heavily for it. Not too clever in hindsight.

An interesting scandal is unfolding right now in Germany.
Due to some digging done by several journalists, it is coming to light how intensively the German Bundespräsident (Christian Wulff) has been seeking to grab every single (often illegal or at least dubious) opportunity to enrich himself, taking small bribes, dubious bankdeals, credits, etc..
Surely he would have been a rich man without those deals as well. Now it's all coming to light and he's about to loose his job, and ****loads of money with it.
Not too clever, in hindsight.
One of many revealing facts of this particular case is that the Bundespräsident isn't capable of admitting to any wrongdoing: he really doesn't see what he's done wrong. For him, taking small bribes (free holidays, free hotel bookings, advantageous bankloans, small-time stuff like that) from business men was simply business as usual.


Of course, all of this doesn't prove that AC or Riis bribed Barak.
Merely, it shows that people who already have truckloads of money will often be tempted to take what they perceive as minor risks, straddling the line between legal and illegal business. And what we call bribery, for them is often business as usual.

 

[Nilsson]

Maybe the "costing in the area of $100million" is in future earnings, rather than cash now?

$100 million is totally ridiculous of course, but it could definitly cost him a serious amount of money (and probably already has). A guy like Contador, if he has a good season and his image isn't damaged, can make (easily) between 5 and 10 million a year..

The situation he is in now, however, apart from his legal expenses, doesn't seem to affect him much. He has a very good contract with Saxo and Specialized and some smaller deals, and all of them were continued (although things could maybe have been better of course, and I can imagine that when some contracts expire terms will be reconsidered - for instance the contract with Specialized)...

If he's banned, it all depends on the length (and the starting point) of the ban. If he can't race for a year (or even two) it surely will cost him a big amount of money. But a shorter ban (or early starting ban) will too. He will loose all of his contracts, probably has to pay a big fine to the UCI, and new contracts won't be as good.

In the worst scenario it really could cost him (lots of) millions, maybe even up to 20 million and counting...

 

[cycladianpirate]

IMO, you're seriously overestimating the moral and intellectual capacities of some of the players involved here.

What about Verbruggen? He surely didn't need LA's money. Nonetheless he took it. Probably business as usual for a slick ******* like him.
Now he's about to pay heavily for it. Not too clever in hindsight.

An interesting scandal is unfolding right now in Germany.
Due to some digging done by several journalists, it is coming to light how intensively the German Bundespräsident (Christian Wulff) has been seeking to grab every single (often illegal or at least dubious) opportunity to enrich himself, taking small bribes, dubious bankdeals, credits, etc..
Surely he would have been a rich man without those deals as well. Now it's all coming to light and he's about to loose his job, and ****loads of money with it.
Not too clever, in hindsight.
One of many revealing facts of this particular case is that the Bundespräsident isn't capable of admitting to any wrongdoing: he really doesn't see what he's done wrong. For him, taking small bribes (free holidays, free hotel bookings, advantageous bankloans, small-time stuff like that) from business men was simply business as usual.


Of course, all of this doesn't prove that AC or Riis bribed Barak.
Merely, it shows that people who already have truckloads of money will often be tempted to take what they perceive as minor risks, straddling the line between legal and illegal business. And what we call bribery, for them is often business as usual.

I take your point.

However, I put my point again - how much would it take for AC to bribe the CAS panel?? I just don't think he has the money and neither do I think that Saxo Bank would sponsor him to do so.

That's it. That's my argument. It has nothing to do with the moral or intellectual capacities of anyone.

By the bye, I agree, the Wulff affair is truly shocking - how is he still hanging on? Bild has some use after all......

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I apologize if the topic already been up, but more than 1000 comments are a bit to much to go through.
I just have a question about the case.
Unless Contador gets acquitted he will lose a lot of results from 2010 and 2011, and I´ve heard rumors this should/could most likely cost him quite a lot of money, in the area of $100 million?
To me this amount sounds insane if it´s true, so I would appreciate if someone with bigger knowledge perhaps could explain (or refute) how this number is possible.

And to Python, I hope your family member are ok.

As pointed out the $100 million is a rather excessive figure.

Even if he is sanctioned, I do not believe he will have his 2011 results taken from him. However he would lose the 2010 Tour result, but again the prizemoney there is shared amongst the team.

But if he served a ban obviously he would lose salary and endorsements. When he was rumored to be leaving Astana in 2009 it was reported they offered at first €4 million p/a and then upped it to €8 million p/a - I doubt he is getting the €8m salary at Saxo, but if you add in endorsements and whatever prizemoney/bonuses he could earn then it certainly amount to the tens of millions - so there is a lot to play for.

 

[sniper]

However, I put my point again - how much would it take for AC to bribe the CAS panel?? I just don't think he has the money and neither do I think that Saxo Bank would sponsor him to do so.

Part of my point was that AC may not have needed that much money.
Verdruggen perhaps took no more than a few thousand dollars from LA.
The Wulff-case shows that, even though some guys are already rich as hell, they are still willing to illegally take small bribes, scrape some illegal bucks from the ground, pennies that they really don'T need.

 

[Fidolix]

As pointed out the $100 million is a rather excessive figure.

Even if he is sanctioned, I do not believe he will have his 2011 results taken from him. However he would lose the 2010 Tour result, but again the prizemoney there is shared amongst the team.

But if he served a ban obviously he would lose salary and endorsements. When he was rumored to be leaving Astana in 2009 it was reported they offered at first €4 million p/a and then upped it to €8 million p/a - I doubt he is getting the €8m salary at Saxo, but if you add in endorsements and whatever prizemoney/bonuses he could earn then it certainly amount to the tens of millions - so there is a lot to play for.

I agree on this sounds more plausible.

However, there´s been a lot of discussions about Contadors salary in the Saxo bank forum, and it´s estimated he recieves 30 - 32 million danish crones, it´s aprox. $5.5 million.
But from this amount he should pay for Navarro, Noval and Jesus him self. They call it the Spanish "packet"
But it´s not been confirmed, and can only be regarded as speculations in my opinion.
Personally I think it´s higher!

But thanks to all for the answers, I appreciate your opinions.

 

[Cimber]

So this will be the week were this "show" will finally see its end (maybe^^)

 

[doolols]

There's a Twitter rumour (from Reuters) that it will be announced today?

 

[Mambo95]

So this will be the week were this "show" will finally see its end (maybe^^)

Today's the day according to the cycling bloke at Reuters.

 

[Cimber]

There's a Twitter rumour (from Reuters) that it will be announced today?

Ye saw it too:

"julienpretotRTRjulienpretotRTR
CAS to make an announcement on #Contador case today"

Will be very interesting.

 

[balkou]

Ye saw it too:

"julienpretotRTRjulienpretotRTR
CAS to make an announcement on #Contador case today"

Will be very interesting.

I was sure they were waiting for the Tour of San Luis to finish.

PS. I haven't followed the arguments, but I saw there's a suspicion that CAS members can be bribed. That's not the case guys, it's professional "suicide" for any member of the court arbitrators to do so.

 

[JA.Tri]

bribes?

I don't for one second suspect that CAS Panel have succumbed to bribery. That said to argue that it cannot happen flies in the face of human history.

There are many cases that demonstrate otherwise. For petty reasons and modest favours/payment even the rich, influential and famous have demonstrated that any group in general is not immune.

 

[Fidolix]

I was sure they were waiting for the Tour of San Luis to finish.

PS. I haven't followed the arguments, but I saw there's a suspicion that CAS members can be bribed. That's not the case guys, it's professional "suicide" for any member of the court arbitrators to do so.

I totally agree that CAS tribunal members would never take bribes, for obvious reasons.

UCI are an entirely different matter tho, both Verbruggen and McQuad have personal economical interests involved and it´s unbelievable they can and could have this position. And of course we have already seen the result of that.

 

[meat puppet]

we'll see

Alex@velocentric:

BREAKING, CAS announcement: "my dog ate our notes, as a result the Contador verdict will be further delayed."

 

[Publicus]

According to reporters on twitter (AP and Reuters) NO verdict today.

 

[Cimber]

According to reporters on twitter (AP and Reuters) NO verdict today.

Yes false alarm it seems ):

stevewilsonapSteve Wilson
CAS says NO verdict today on Contador, putting to rest speculation. #doping #cycling

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Yes, the CAS just announced the decision will be announced on Monday, February 6.

Susan

 

[Forunculo]

Yes, the CAS just announced the decision will be announced on Monday, February 6.

Susan

lol not even the week of 31

 

[trevim]

I thought that my country was the only one with courts that are a joke. But it seems that it's something that is all over the world. What a disgrace for cyclung having this case pending for so long. Either give him a suspension or clear the guy.

 

[personal]

http://www.tas-cas.org/en/infogenerales.asp/4-3-5575-1092-4-1-1/5-0-1092-15-1-1/

 

[T-Nielsen]

So basically they have anounced another delay... swell...

 

[doolols]

One word - pathetic.