- Jun 3, 2012
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He's part of the Russian Generation. It's a doping generator. It's like poetry, the same thing keeps happening over and over.
- Jun 14, 2010
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Re: Re:
I don't agree with everything he says, and its not that simple, but something like that does definately exist.
Why did Steve Cram and other journos accuse Makhloufi of doping at the olympics, but not Farrah? Farrah was more dominant. But he's also British. Makhloufi is from Morrocco (same part of Africa the guy I saw yesterday was referring to). Cram may not realize he is being racist (or culturealist I guess, though equally bad), he might not do it on purpose, but he is.
Its exactly the same attitude among the anglophone journos and cyclists in cycling. Eastern Europe and Southern Europe are different cultures. Its "the other". Different. They may not do it on purpose but they don't trust these other cultures. That's why Valverde is always a doper. Zakarin will always be a doper. Millar however is "repentant" as is Hesjedal. Repentant only really means "anglophone". No sane person could look at Millar's contributions to the doping debate over the last decade and conclude this is a repentant person. He's more pro doping than almost anyone else.
Hesjedal is like the least repentant doper imaginable. During all this time he was allegedly "repentant" he was determined to keep his doping a secret. He even conspired with authorities to help him cover up his doping and avoid ANY punishment for it. He has not offered one act or word of repentance since he doped, and only admitted to it once someone else did him the disservice of revealing it to the world for him.
Why does the secret pro trust O Grady and defend him and attack the people who are angry with him, but in the exact same article gives Santa the full Judas treatment? Same reason, unfortunately.
Its also of course no surprise that there is a massive overlap between the people who practise this logic and the people who believe in wiggins and froome and porte and evans and in armstrong before. I remember one innocent sky poster who no longer posts here saying a few years ago that it was universally accepted that all the young US riders are clean. He wasn't trying to troll, he actually believed it. Couldn't come up with a reason though, or any arguments, and if he searched deeper into his subconcious and tried to discover the actual reasons behind these opinions, i wonder if he would be disturbed with what he found.
Its subconcious racism. I saw on tv yesterday a guy arguing that it exists in society in general, offering for example the fact that Australians are welcomed with open arms in British society while people from Africa are not.SeriousSam said:
I don't agree with everything he says, and its not that simple, but something like that does definately exist.
Why did Steve Cram and other journos accuse Makhloufi of doping at the olympics, but not Farrah? Farrah was more dominant. But he's also British. Makhloufi is from Morrocco (same part of Africa the guy I saw yesterday was referring to). Cram may not realize he is being racist (or culturealist I guess, though equally bad), he might not do it on purpose, but he is.
Its exactly the same attitude among the anglophone journos and cyclists in cycling. Eastern Europe and Southern Europe are different cultures. Its "the other". Different. They may not do it on purpose but they don't trust these other cultures. That's why Valverde is always a doper. Zakarin will always be a doper. Millar however is "repentant" as is Hesjedal. Repentant only really means "anglophone". No sane person could look at Millar's contributions to the doping debate over the last decade and conclude this is a repentant person. He's more pro doping than almost anyone else.
Hesjedal is like the least repentant doper imaginable. During all this time he was allegedly "repentant" he was determined to keep his doping a secret. He even conspired with authorities to help him cover up his doping and avoid ANY punishment for it. He has not offered one act or word of repentance since he doped, and only admitted to it once someone else did him the disservice of revealing it to the world for him.
Why does the secret pro trust O Grady and defend him and attack the people who are angry with him, but in the exact same article gives Santa the full Judas treatment? Same reason, unfortunately.
Its also of course no surprise that there is a massive overlap between the people who practise this logic and the people who believe in wiggins and froome and porte and evans and in armstrong before. I remember one innocent sky poster who no longer posts here saying a few years ago that it was universally accepted that all the young US riders are clean. He wasn't trying to troll, he actually believed it. Couldn't come up with a reason though, or any arguments, and if he searched deeper into his subconcious and tried to discover the actual reasons behind these opinions, i wonder if he would be disturbed with what he found.
- Jul 21, 2012
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All these clowns in the cycling media who are now doubting Zakarin would never ever dream of doubting Hesjedals giro win.
Hell, even most clinic posters have a lot more faith in Hesjedal even though there is no logical reason for it.
Hell, even most clinic posters have a lot more faith in Hesjedal even though there is no logical reason for it.
Flies like a bird in Romandie
Forgets to top up
Drops like a stone in Giro 1st Week
Fuel up on rest day
Flies like a bird in Giro 2nd Week
Forgets to top up
Drops like a stone in Giro 1st Week
Fuel up on rest day
Flies like a bird in Giro 2nd Week
Re:
what about 'agrees with team manager/team doc not to top up so as not to raise too many eyebrowes'IndianCyclist said:
I think it was funny how Kelly was trying to cover him up by saying his style is very efficient.
Eurosport is interesting with Hatch, who sounds like he doesn't approve of doping. And Kelly, who does. It must be really awkward in their commentary box
Eurosport is interesting with Hatch, who sounds like he doesn't approve of doping. And Kelly, who does. It must be really awkward in their commentary box
Re: Re:
Brave New Generation of Sagan (sprinting, TTing, beating climbers) or Alaphilippe (almost beaten Mt. Baldy supercharged time of Levi+Horny), etc - welcome to Movement For Incredible Cycling
sniper said:
Brave New Generation of Sagan (sprinting, TTing, beating climbers) or Alaphilippe (almost beaten Mt. Baldy supercharged time of Levi+Horny), etc - welcome to Movement For Incredible Cycling
- Jul 11, 2013
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Very interesting rider... There's prolly not much doubt that he dopes.. But he sure can put on a spectacle...
He may look like Froome but the way he throws his bike down wet descents bares no resemblance to the Froomish style of riding downhill..
Will be interesting to see more of him in loongish mountains with burning heat..
He may look like Froome but the way he throws his bike down wet descents bares no resemblance to the Froomish style of riding downhill..
Will be interesting to see more of him in loongish mountains with burning heat..
- Jul 15, 2013
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This is going to be the semi-big name that gets popped during the Giro to show that anti-doping is still working.
Re: Re:
I laughed.
Also, to other people saying that the commentator didn't mention Ryder Hesjedal - I'm assuming that since Zakarin is relatively new to the scene he was simply calling it out.
@Hitch. I would agree their is an 'anglobias' in his commentary but I would assume their would be bias by all commentators, regardless of country, race or region. I will be the first to admit - I was biased. When US riders were having success, I was hoodwinked into believing they were clean. But I was wrong. Boy was I wrong.
sniper said:
I laughed.
Also, to other people saying that the commentator didn't mention Ryder Hesjedal - I'm assuming that since Zakarin is relatively new to the scene he was simply calling it out.
@Hitch. I would agree their is an 'anglobias' in his commentary but I would assume their would be bias by all commentators, regardless of country, race or region. I will be the first to admit - I was biased. When US riders were having success, I was hoodwinked into believing they were clean. But I was wrong. Boy was I wrong.
Re: Re:
In every country, "our boys" or "our girls" are treated as inherently more credible than those dubious foreigners and the more "foreign" the foreigner the more that applies. This is undeniable to anyone who has listened to sports commentary from a number of different countries.
But that's not the only issue involved. There are also other factors. When it comes to proven dopers for intance, there's also the narrative offered by the rider. Take a rider who says some subset of "I confessed. I cooperated with the authorities. I was young and stupid. I was forced to do it by Lance. I was desperate and depressed." And then goes on to say something like "I've learned my lesson. I've taken my (reduced!) punishment. I deserved it. But now I want to be a voice of hope, a story of redemption, etc etc." That rider is generally treated very differently by commentators, journalists and many fans than a rider who is popped but never confesses, maintains he did nothing wrong and treats questions about the issue as impertinence.
It's perfectly reasonable to question how repentant or how "redeemed" the first type of doper really is. But that's a different issue from whether or not the first narrative factually gets you an easier rider than the second. The issue is whether it does get you treated differently not whether it should. It isn't just Americans or Anglophones who put a Zabriskie and a Valverde in different mental categories. One has (in his case a reasonably plausible) tale to tell, the other is seen as someone who is still lying.
Zakarin, well all any of the commentators really know about him is that he was on a programme from very young and that he seems to have suddenly exploded from nowhere. There's only one narrative they are going to construct from those facts. (In fact, he hasn't quite exploded from nowhere, he was winning boatloads of crappy small races for years but commentators don't pay much attention to the GP Adygeya). He actually could sell a "redeemed" narrative if he wanted to, playing on how he was a kid and was led astray, but he'd have to throw a bunch of people under the bus to do that and would stir up interest in something that happened six years ago. He presumably figures that's not worth his while.
The Hitch said:
In every country, "our boys" or "our girls" are treated as inherently more credible than those dubious foreigners and the more "foreign" the foreigner the more that applies. This is undeniable to anyone who has listened to sports commentary from a number of different countries.
But that's not the only issue involved. There are also other factors. When it comes to proven dopers for intance, there's also the narrative offered by the rider. Take a rider who says some subset of "I confessed. I cooperated with the authorities. I was young and stupid. I was forced to do it by Lance. I was desperate and depressed." And then goes on to say something like "I've learned my lesson. I've taken my (reduced!) punishment. I deserved it. But now I want to be a voice of hope, a story of redemption, etc etc." That rider is generally treated very differently by commentators, journalists and many fans than a rider who is popped but never confesses, maintains he did nothing wrong and treats questions about the issue as impertinence.
It's perfectly reasonable to question how repentant or how "redeemed" the first type of doper really is. But that's a different issue from whether or not the first narrative factually gets you an easier rider than the second. The issue is whether it does get you treated differently not whether it should. It isn't just Americans or Anglophones who put a Zabriskie and a Valverde in different mental categories. One has (in his case a reasonably plausible) tale to tell, the other is seen as someone who is still lying.
Zakarin, well all any of the commentators really know about him is that he was on a programme from very young and that he seems to have suddenly exploded from nowhere. There's only one narrative they are going to construct from those facts. (In fact, he hasn't quite exploded from nowhere, he was winning boatloads of crappy small races for years but commentators don't pay much attention to the GP Adygeya). He actually could sell a "redeemed" narrative if he wanted to, playing on how he was a kid and was led astray, but he'd have to throw a bunch of people under the bus to do that and would stir up interest in something that happened six years ago. He presumably figures that's not worth his while.
- Jul 21, 2012
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Re: Re:
By the way, do we have any reliable first hand account of a team actually holding back a doped rider from riding as well as he can just because he would be too good and would look too fishy? I can't recall one from any of the doping memoirs, yet it's a staple explanation for variations in form here.
By the way, do we have any reliable first hand account of a team actually holding back a doped rider from riding as well as he can just because he would be too good and would look too fishy? I can't recall one from any of the doping memoirs, yet it's a staple explanation for variations in form here.
Re: Re:
I believe US Postal at one of the later TdFs didn't use their last blood bags for this very reason. And they were already far enough ahead, safe jersey, etc.
Zinoviev Letter said:
I believe US Postal at one of the later TdFs didn't use their last blood bags for this very reason. And they were already far enough ahead, safe jersey, etc.
Re: Re:
Interesting. Whose account was that from?
If that's accurate though, it's still not a team deciding not to win. Do we have a team actually deciding not to win for fear of setting off alarm bells?
Beech Mtn said:
Interesting. Whose account was that from?
If that's accurate though, it's still not a team deciding not to win. Do we have a team actually deciding not to win for fear of setting off alarm bells?
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