Official lance armstrong thread, part 2 (from september 2012)

[fatandfast]

You don't know how good it is to drop into CN this morning and not see any report containing the same old dribble from he who says he's done with doping issues and won't talk about it anymore but continues to use his spokespersons to do his talking, while he squirms in the background on some beach sipping a brew.

harder still to see "credible" scientists say that they smelled a rat in 2009 but made the decision to collect a pay check rather than speak up. Omerta may need to updated for selfishpigism.

Armstrong's secret keeping squad is selling everything from products to his 10 or 15 year old story and claiming that telling was impossible one way or another. Until now for fun and profit. Ashenden is as corrupt as all the rest another Lielong Pharmstrong enabler that has been given a pass. 2009 are f-ckin kiddin me? It took four years and a severely damaged Armstrong to speak out? How courageous

 

[thehog]

You don't know how good it is to drop into CN this morning and not see any report containing the same old dribble from he who says he's done with doping issues and won't talk about it anymore but continues to use his spokespersons to do his talking, while he squirms in the background on some beach sipping a brew.

VN: The UCI recently voted not to proceed with a Truth and Reconciliation Commission, saying it preferred instead to focus on the future. Do you see this as wise or counter-productive?

MA: I thought the UCI congress stuffed their head in the Maastricht sand. I think the motion they put to the management committee was self-serving twaddle. For example, they claimed that some doping practices can only be detected by police methods. That’s just rubbish. USADA are not the police, they do not have subpoena powers, and yet they were able to unearth evidence of blood tranfusions simply by interviewing cyclists who were persuaded to tell the truth.

But even more worrying was the claim by the UCI congress that awareness of what had happened in the past does not help clean up cycling today. At this point, so contorted was their logic, that the collective head burying must have damn near penetrated the earth’s crust. USADA had to go back in the past to unravel the web. But when they did, every single one of Armstrong’s conspirators named by USADA were still active in sport today. How on earth does banning them from sport not help clean up cycling today? Either the UCI congress had not read USADA’s charging letter - head in the sand - or they had wilfully disregarded it - head in the crust.

I do understand why the UCI congress feel that doping scandals stigmatise their sport for the young generations. I don’t think there is any question they do. But on the flip side, does massaging the truth about doping disregard a duty of care toward that young generation? Is it conscionable to watch young riders enter the ranks of professional cycling without disclosing to them the risks?

 

[thirteen]

Gerard Vroomen: Fabiani is getting old.

Are we supposed to believe that the biological passport is “clear to everyone but Fabiani”? No. Because I don’t think Fabiani is stupid, far from it, he just says stupid things. Which must mean that saying stupid things is the smartest thing he can do, likely because the smarter things would make his client look stupid.

someone asked the other day if Fabiani is stupid... then this blog came my way, so i thought i'd post. (emphasis added is mine)

 

[Race Radio]

harder still to see "credible" scientists say that they smelled a rat in 2009 but made the decision to collect a pay check rather than speak up.

Did you read the interview? Ashenden did speak up, the UCI did nothing

 

[Microchip]

+1 - Armstrong got a hero's welcome at the Rev3 Tri yesterday. They had a spike in registration (up 30% after his participation was announced), volunteers, and crowds. An event the evening before featuring a panel with Armstrong was sold out....

Maybe some people just want to see what a thug looks like in person.

ETA: Just saw RR's post about there being only 17 more participants. LOL!!!

 

[Microchip]

Oh yeah, the blood values...
BroDeal posted that before..

Too funny!

 

[Microchip]

You don't know how good it is to drop into CN this morning and not see any report containing the same old dribble from he who says he's done with doping issues and won't talk about it anymore but continues to use his spokespersons to do his talking, while he squirms in the background on some beach sipping a brew.

Good description and the imagery is so comical.

 

[Race Radio]

Maybe some people just want to see what a thug looks like in person.

ETA: Just saw RR's post about there being only 17 more participants. LOL!!!

In the long course they had 1 more participant, and 20 less Pro's. Tri Pro's don't want to be seen with the doper and avoided the race

 

[Microchip]

In the long course they had 1 more participant, and 20 less Pro's. Tri Pro's don't want to be seen with the doper and avoided the race

The cracks are beginning to show.

 

[Aleajactaest]

Who cares what Wiki says?!?! Even the creator says it is an unreliable piece of garbage system.

Well, the thing he wanted to change should be changed. They corrected the page to say LA won all the tours he won. Until UCI actually gets the "reasoned decision" from USADA, they can't strip Lance of his titles. By their rules, he passed the tests and is the winner.

 

[zigmeister]

Well, the thing he wanted to change should be changed. They corrected the page to say LA won all the tours he won. Until UCI actually gets the "reasoned decision" from USADA, they can't strip Lance of his titles. By their rules, he passed the tests and is the winner.

It is sad when people are so worked up and concerned about some piece of crap website that the creator says is flawed in many ways.

Wiki is garbage and can't be relied upon.

Of course, the Feds apparently just cut/paste Wiki side effects about steroids in a case they were working on. How lazy are they...yeah, Wiki is the end-all be-all for facts...pleeeeaazzzeee..

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

Lance's training partner and fellow shirtless Austin running poseur has slimmed down dramatically to play an AIDS patient.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ted-takes-weight-loss-AIDS-role-step-far.html

Maybe Lance gave him some AICAR?

The Wiggins look doesn't suit him much.

 

[Oldman]

Yeah, guys who do eg. the Embrunman in France, which is well known for its bike leg at 188km and 5000 m of climbing, including the Col d’Izoard. Only that they preceed that by a 4km swim, and run a marathon afterwards. All in under 10 hours total with a sub 6 hour bike split and sub 3 hour marathon. Would not call that a major athlete of course.

But yes, totally delusional...

Was that this race? I'm talking about the guys Lance was beating...sounds like you're a little sensitive.

 

[Aleajactaest]

It is sad when people are so worked up and concerned about some piece of crap website that the creator says is flawed in many ways.

Wiki is garbage and can't be relied upon.

Of course, the Feds apparently just cut/paste Wiki side effects about steroids in a case they were working on. How lazy are they...yeah, Wiki is the end-all be-all for facts...pleeeeaazzzeee..

Ignorance of how crowd sourcing works doesn't make it garbage. I wouldn't quote it but properly used and annotated it is often a good starting point for research. In the instant case, the person objected to the crowd, correctly for now, saying Lance still holds his titles. The question of whether he will continue to hold them is up to the UCI so the objection was valid. That's all I am saying. However, being quite a rabid as you are relfect more poorly on you than on Wikipedia. Not that this forum is exactly a shining source of great intelligence on either side of this debate.

 

[Tubeless]

In the long course they had 1 more participant, and 20 less Pro's. Tri Pro's don't want to be seen with the doper and avoided the race

Perhaps this is just stating the obvious:

Armstrong's appeal is to the masses who don't read much about cycling and want to believe in their heroes. Cancer charity touches many personally. They're more likely to stay with the image of "Lance - the doer of good" rather than "Lance - the cheater".

PROs and serious competitors who know what's going on will avoid racing with Lance for two reasons. First, to avoid the appearance of being associated with the doper - and secondly for the simple reason that there's a high likelihood than Lance is not racing clean. He's out to win / do well - and why would you want to pick a race where a known doper is in the lineup, and no testing to protect the clean racers?

 

[thirteen]

TOTO on the delay

the natives are getting restless.

 

[Willy_Voet]

TOTO on the delay

the natives are getting restless.

Ain't that the truth...The UCI is relentless in its pursuit of saddle set back violators and organized efforts to exceed the 3:1 aspect ratio.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

It is sad when people are so worked up and concerned about some piece of crap website that the creator says is flawed in many ways.

Wiki is garbage and can't be relied upon.

Wikipedia is actually remarkably good at conveying information that is supported by reliable sources, and not saying things that are not supported by reliable sources.

Officially, Armstrong still retains his titles, and so Wikipedia reflects that. Once the reasoned decision makes it the UCI, and the UCI (or ASO or CAS?) makes the stripping official, then it will be reflected in Wikipedia.

Anything wrong with that?

 

[fatandfast]

Armstrong must pay for crimes, claims ex-Tour star LeMond

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/...crimes-claims-ex-tour-star-lemond-210305.html

Lemond is right..oops Lance wasn't given a lifetime ban? Was that not punishment? Or does he need re-punishing by the UCI? Why not call for some sanction from USPro or USAC? As has been set up by pro cycling, return to the nest and begin the punishment at the place of your birth. Schleck is doing in Lux,Contador went to Spain to ask the question, What next?

Armstrong is the only athlete discussed that squeezed his problems outside the geenie's bottle to be dealt with by the justice dept or finally USADA. Armstrong has been punished so has Landis.
Just last month the courts disagreed with cyclings punishment and handed down an additional punishment for a sub-process in Landis's lying and fined him 480,000 dollars.
Hamilton as Lemond mentioned was punished for rules violations while riding with a pro license.He was never punished for his olympic conduct,either for repayment for testing and testimony he gave while defending his at the time, didn't dope stance.

Other pro riders that hold some pro cycling credential Levi,George,CVV,DZ have all taken part in some part of Lance's doping. They either did it,knew about it,or lied about it at one point during the continuously maintained pro cycling employment. When will they be punished?

Armstrong has been stripped of his titles. His enablers or co-violators must also face the music, in parallel not after the ferver so that they are less harmed by the feeding frenzy. All dopers pre-Lance are probably thanking their lucky stars
that there punishment took place before federal governments globally started paying attention and money toward the problem.

Lemond should embrace wide spread testing,at the USADA level rather than act as if the only athlete he cares about is Armstrong. That right isn't it, he does care about catching all the other dopers? doesn't he? don't they? or is this super high level of justice only for Armstrong?

I hope Levi gets it first because he is so small and easy to catch. I hope they make him set all his dog tag machines to "CHEATER" and make him and all his other cheaters wear those.
When is Hincapie getting it? Will it be before the USPro race is held in his home town?
maybe they can combine his public flogging for lying for a decade+ with the race winner award to save money.
These guys are lucky they didn't sh!t in Lemond's sports deals or else he would be out to get them some street justice.
What if Danielson is guilty of dope or being dopie? What should happen to him? and when? or nothing.or nothing until "they" are done with Lance. We need some justice asap. Greg get a van and drive around picking guys up for punishment lets get them all.

 

[peterst6906]

These guys are lucky they didn't sh!t in Lemond's sports deals or else he would be out to get them some street justice.

Two things:

1. These guys didn't set out to destroy Le Mond's business and reputation, Lance did

2. These guys have reportedly (yet to be confirmed) all admitted their doping and the extent of their involvement (for a range of different reasons and motivations), Lance hasn't

I have no problem with LeMond's focus on Lance: eye-for-an-eye and all that, plus the depth of involvement of Lance in organising, influencing, trafficking and managing the process.

It's not so much a case of ****ting in Le Mond's sports deals. Lance attacked Le Mond first because he was upset about questions of his ties to Ferarri. All Le Mond did was ask some simple and relevant questions and received a barrage of recriminations, legal action and smears from Lance. About time Le Mond had things turn around for him.

 

[thehog]

Apparently it's a big tobacco conspiracy against lance!

 

[D-Queued]

Sheesh.

Hasn't this been discussed to death already?

The concept of reduced sentences for cooperation, plea bargaining, etc. is fully consistent with the legal system.

But, that is moot.

Speculating about who might have provided testimony and what, if any, leniency they may have been offered needs to wait for some facts.

Until then, the only purpose of this discussion is to inflame the dialog.

As for Greg (or anyone else) saying that Armstrong (or anyone else) should 'pay for their crimes', there is nothing wrong with using the conditional tense in that statement.

Dave.

 

[fatandfast]

Apparently it's a big tobacco conspiracy against lance!

just the uneven hand of justice

 

[Tubeless]

Lemond is right..oops Lance wasn't given a lifetime ban? Was that not punishment? Or does he need re-punishing by the UCI? Why not call for some sanction from USPro or USAC? As has been set up by pro cycling, return to the nest and begin the punishment at the place of your birth. Schleck is doing in Lux,Contador went to Spain to ask the question, What next?

Armstrong is the only athlete discussed that squeezed his problems outside the geenie's bottle to be dealt with by the justice dept or finally USADA. Armstrong has been punished so has Landis.
Just last month the courts disagreed with cyclings punishment and handed down an additional punishment for a sub-process in Landis's lying and fined him 480,000 dollars.
Hamilton as Lemond mentioned was punished for rules violations while riding with a pro license.He was never punished for his olympic conduct,either for repayment for testing and testimony he gave while defending his at the time, didn't dope stance.

Other pro riders that hold some pro cycling credential Levi,George,CVV,DZ have all taken part in some part of Lance's doping. They either did it,knew about it,or lied about it at one point during the continuously maintained pro cycling employment. When will they be punished?

Armstrong has been stripped of his titles. His enablers or co-violators must also face the music, in parallel not after the ferver so that they are less harmed by the feeding frenzy. All dopers pre-Lance are probably thanking their lucky stars
that there punishment took place before federal governments globally started paying attention and money toward the problem.

Lemond should embrace wide spread testing,at the USADA level rather than act as if the only athlete he cares about is Armstrong. That right isn't it, he does care about catching all the other dopers? doesn't he? don't they? or is this super high level of justice only for Armstrong?

I hope Levi gets it first because he is so small and easy to catch. I hope they make him set all his dog tag machines to "CHEATER" and make him and all his other cheaters wear those.
When is Hincapie getting it? Will it be before the USPro race is held in his home town?
maybe they can combine his public flogging for lying for a decade+ with the race winner award to save money.
These guys are lucky they didn't sh!t in Lemond's sports deals or else he would be out to get them some street justice.
What if Danielson is guilty of dope or being dopie? What should happen to him? and when? or nothing.or nothing until "they" are done with Lance. We need some justice asap. Greg get a van and drive around picking guys up for punishment lets get them all.

I believe you know all this, but let's try to be factual:

1. Many riders dope and are punished for their doping with racing bans when caught. Few riders engage in corruption, doping conspiracy, witness intimidation and attempts to destroy other people's lives. That's the criminal behavior LeMond is accusing Lance of - where a simple lifetime racing ban (for a "retired" athlete) won't bring sufficient justice to.

2. Landis was ordered to repay $478,000 back to his donors as "restitution" - this is technically not a fine.

3. Leipheimer, Zabriskie, Hincapie, Vande Velde, Danielson will likely receive their punishment when the "reasoned decision" is handed out as it involves their statements. They're guilty of doping, not guilty for "helping" Lance. They will receive a reduced ban for helping USADA, an accommodation allowed by the WADA code.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

Yeah, Herman wrote a letter to Bill Bock saying it.



http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...g-TopStories+(Sports+-+Cycling+-+Top+Stories)

The "pig" here are truths about Armstrong that will make world headlines. Clinton's story is about 1 intern, and 1 blowjob. This is a lot different, as the billing from Fabiani and Lehehe most certainly reflect.

As a side note, I am sure there is a 'blue dress' somewhere in the LA evidence. That will be spectacularly funny....