Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Catwhoorg]

Lance is a fighter! He won't stop till everyone is thrown under a bus!

Lance is the bus driver. Go Lance!

Is that EPO down his pants ?

Or is he just really enjoying this ?

 

[D-Queued]

This has to be completely about the defense strategy.

The story is evolving as follows:

- Yes, I doped
- Hein made me do it
- Everyone else was doing it, so it was standard practice and a level playing field
- Hein could have changed his mind at anytime, making the challenge of winning for me even harder

Thus, Lance will propose that the insurance contracts were completely legit.

It is a Hail Mary with full pretzel logic, and is ulimately complete nonsense, but might be the best thing he has going for him.

The only thing I don't get is the 'I want to win Ironman' thing. WTF? Lance doesn't care about anyone or anything except himself. Who cares about Ironman?

Oh, and nice parental abuse foreshadow. 'It would be war' ...?

Who writes this stuff?

Dave.

 

[WinterRider]

I like that Lance is insinuating that he has a lot of evidence to present at the inquiry that will sink Hein.

But let's be honest, we're never going to see that evidence (if it even exists). Lance will only show up at the inquiry if his ban is first reduced, that's his play right now. No way will he give up the goods for free, and no way will USADA even consider reducing his ban unless he offers up some really good info first.

I see this going absolutely nowhere as of today.

What might change things is his coming depositions under oath.

I recall Nov 21st as being the date of the first one, is that still on? If so, I hope the lawyers have a field day with his recent revelations to Emma. I suspect Lance wasn't thinking clearly when he said those things in the lead up to under oath testimony, and hopefully he has just provided the thin end of the wedge to start digging up that pile of dirt.

 

[blackcat]

The only thing I don't get is the 'I want to win Ironman' thing. WTF? Lance doesn't care about anyone or anything except himself. Who cares about Ironman?

Oh, and nice parental abuse foreshadow. 'It would be war' ...?

Who writes this stuff?

Dave.

Lance got some equity in the firm that has amalgamated the Ironman in the developed markets, and no doubt has some incentive attached to his stock, wrt Kona.

now, I am not sure on this, Race Radio is the man for confirmation.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Lance is a fighter! He won't stop till everyone is thrown under a bus!

Lance is the bus driver. Go Lance!

LOL, agreed. He feels he was tossed under the bus, so why not join em if you can't beat em, right.

 

[86TDFWinner]

This has to be completely about the defense strategy.

The story is evolving as follows:

- Yes, I doped
- Hein made me do it
- Everyone else was doing it, so it was standard practice and a level playing field

Sadly, this is the common/typical defense from the Lance supporters whenever they talk about how wronged their hero was. "They all doped, so what? it was a level playing field, they were all doing it, he just happened to do it better.... blah blah blah".

There are still people today infact(knowing what we've learned and known for some time about Cancer Jesus) who still use this line of defense when talking about Wonderboy.

 

[DirtyWorks]

damning, perhaps. but i find it hard to believe that hein is seriously concerned about this revelation.
if asked, he'll probably stick to the narrative that it wasn't a positive in the first place, so there was nothing to be covered up.

The way the positives were presented to the UCI mattered. One was clearly positive, the other borderline. Guess which one became the "A" sample? As long as Hein doesn't deviate from the story that the primary sample was borderline, he's bulletproof.

Also, the way the story is being written doesn't highlight the simple fact an IOC sports federation was:

1. Hiding positives
2. Enabling doping
3. Picking winners.

It's no better than entertainment wrestling. Yet, the reporting bends over backwards to sell the idea it was a lone-doper plus one guy.

Instead, this story bumps and grinds along because no one is willing to acknowledge the wholesale corruption. I don't get why that is the case, but there it is.

 

[sniper]

The way the positives were presented to the UCI mattered. One was clearly positive, the other borderline. Guess which one became the "A" sample? As long as Hein doesn't deviate from the story that the primary sample was borderline, he's bulletproof.

Also, the way the story is being written doesn't highlight the simple fact an IOC sports federation was:

1. Hiding positives
2. Enabling doping
3. Picking winners.

It's no better than entertainment wrestling. Yet, the reporting bends over backwards to sell the idea it was a lone-doper plus one guy.

Instead, this story bumps and grinds along because no one is willing to acknowledge the wholesale corruption. I don't get why that is the case, but there it is.

i think in the eyes of the average IOC stakeholder, Verbruggen did the right thing in 1999.
No worse than what's going on at IAAF, ATP and FIFA, so I'm not sure who (if anybody) at IOC is able/willing to put any sort of pressure on Verbruggen?
Or perhaps somebody outside of IOC? What's that lady's name again, president of Transparency International?


++++++

David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST 9h

@RossHarte The others co-operated with process, LA fought it. Tried to screw USADA but failed. During career, he led. Teammates followed.

Walsh apologizing hard for the Garmin boys. What is walsh saying here anyway? That everybody who raced with lance was a victim without free will?
Walsh milking the last drops of milk out of the lance story.
Playing hard ball with lance, but missing big red flags wrt sky.

 

[thehog]

i think in the eyes of the average IOC stakeholder, Verbruggen did the right thing in 1999.
No worse than what's going on at IAAF, ATP and FIFA, so I'm not sure who (if anybody) at IOC is able/willing to put any sort of pressure on Verbruggen?
Or perhaps somebody outside of IOC? What's that lady's name again, president of Transparency International?


++++++
Walsh apologizing hard for the Garmin boys. What is walsh saying here anyway? That everybody who raced with lance was a victim without free will?
Walsh milking the last drops of milk out of the lance story.
Playing hard ball with lance, but missing big red flags wrt sky.

Yes the cortisone positive is nothing news. He'd did it with Brochard and countless others. It was the norm.

 

[DirtyWorks]

i think in the eyes of the average IOC stakeholder, Verbruggen did the right thing in 1999.
No worse than what's going on at IAAF, ATP and FIFA, so I'm not sure who (if anybody) at IOC is able/willing to put any sort of pressure on Verbruggen?
Or perhaps somebody outside of IOC? What's that lady's name again, president of Transparency International?

Now that Hein is theoretically retired from cycling even though he is some kind of permanent office-holder, and definitely heading out the door at the IOC's Olympic Broadcast Company after Sochi they will have a hard time doing anything but forgetting about it.

It would be great if the story dogged the IOC, but the federations you mention are no better.

 

[Benotti69]

Now that Hein is theoretically retired from cycling even though he is some kind of permanent office-holder, and definitely heading out the door at the IOC's Olympic Broadcast Company after Sochi they will have a hard time doing anything but forgetting about it.

It would be great if the story dogged the IOC, but the federations you mention are no better.

It would be fantastic if Hein was to create a domino effect that took out most of them.........

I could almost forgive, almost, Armstrong if by throwing Hein under the bus sent a huge wave through these corrupt POS federations.

 

[gooner]

A whistleblower lawsuit accusing former champion cyclist Lance Armstrong of defrauding the government by using banned substances in violation of his team’s contract with the U.S. Postal Service will probably proceed, a federal judge in Washington said.

U.S. District Judge Robert Wilkins said he was inclined to let at least part of a suit filed by Armstrong’s former teammate, Floyd Landis, continue. His comments followed almost three hours of arguments today by lawyers for Armstrong and others named in the complaint seeking to have the case thrown out.

“It may be dismissed as to some defendants,” Wilkins said. “I’ll tell you I doubt it as to all” defendants.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...laims-case-likely-to-proceed-judge-says.html?

Matt Lawton on Newstalk tonight(starts 43 mins in)

http://www.newstalk.ie/player/listen_back/10/5620/18th_November_2013_-_Off_The_Ball_Part_1

 

[Fatclimber]

some people need serious setbacks to turn human. not sure if that's disingenuous.
....

It's obvious what la's priorities are, still. Despite his serious setbacks, which I find it difficult not to laugh at referring to them as serious setbacks while he still has millions in the bank, I don't believe he's yet in danger of becoming human. Still talking out both sides of his mouth. Still focused on himself above all else.

 

[IndianCyclist]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/landis-invokes-wartime-law-in-armstrong-whistleblower-suit

I think somebody in the Landis team is getting too greedy. It is pretty far fetched to say that the government couldn't investigate.

 

[MarkvW]

I think somebody in the Landis team is getting too greedy. It is pretty far fetched to say that the government couldn't investigate.

It's not, if itself, a sign of greediness. It's just an alternative reason (like fraudulent concealment) for why the statute of limitations should not bar the lawsuit in this case. If Floyd and the US don't get around the statute of limitations, then Floyd and the US won't get any of Lance's money.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Cancer Boy Seeks to Have Lawsuit(s) Dismissed. Yeah umm, good luck with that:


http://www.bicycle.net/2013/lance-armstrong-seeks-dismissal-fraud-case

 

[Archibald]

Personally think an apology from Armstrong is useless, however I will gladly accept cash.

he's somewhat naive if he thinks some sort of verbal apology and some quiet cash will make up for years of destroyed lives he generated.
I can't see the Andreaus and Lemonds being quite that accepting, and if that still gives him some conscience issues, then good.
Not that I think he's particularly repentant [privately] of what he did to people

 

[D-Queued]

It's obvious what la's priorities are, still. Despite his serious setbacks, which I find it difficult not to laugh at referring to them as serious setbacks while he still has millions in the bank, I don't believe he's yet in danger of becoming human. Still talking out both sides of his mouth. Still focused on himself above all else.

The unavoidable irony being that he is now more an example of not being able to trust a liar than all those he has accused. His motivations must always be questioned.

It is hard to not be certain that Hein knew.

But, it is inescapable that Lance is making up whatever story might suit him today.

If Floyd, Tyler, or anyone else might have been self-serving to some degree, they are again children compared to Lance.

Lance is a real pro.

Dave.

 

[GrilledFish]

The unavoidable irony being that he is now more an example of not being able to trust a liar than all those he has accused. His motivations must always be questioned.

It is hard to not be certain that Hein knew.

But, it is inescapable that Lance is making up whatever story might suit him today.

If Floyd, Tyler, or anyone else might have been self-serving to some degree, they are again children compared to Lance.

Lance is a real pro.

Dave.

Why does the degree matter? I always hear rape is rape. If nice guy doped and bad guy doped, well dope is dope. Why treat them differently?

 

[42x16ss]

Why does the degree matter? I always hear rape is rape. If nice guy doped and bad guy doped, well dope is dope. Why treat them differently?

When you start adding a few other violations to the original crime it all gets a little worse...

Like bribery, coersion, money laundering, drug dealing/supply, witness intimidation, perjury, libel, fraud and corrupt business practices

Add all that into the mix and the perp in question deserves slightly different treatment to somebody who takes the odd shot of EPO every now and then don't you think?

 

[frenchfry]

The unavoidable irony being that he is now more an example of not being able to trust a liar than all those he has accused. His motivations must always be questioned.

It is hard to not be certain that Hein knew.

But, it is inescapable that Lance is making up whatever story might suit him today.

If Floyd, Tyler, or anyone else might have been self-serving to some degree, they are again children compared to Lance.

Lance is a real pro.

Dave.

We are witnessing a world class lie-off between Monkey Mouth and Verdruggen. May the best liar win.

 

[MonkeyFace]

We are witnessing a world class lie-off between Monkey Mouth and Verdruggen. May the best liar win.

And the winner goes up against the Pathological Liar for the title.

iar

 

[DirtyWorks]

It is hard to not be certain that Hein knew.

It's not hard, after Armstrong himself outs Hein there's no doubt left.

Which leads to the bigger story that doesn't seem to be written yet, the federation is enabling doping and picking winners.

If an athlete knows the leader of the federation is hiding positives, then why would anyone in their right mind stop doping? The federation will just hide it for you. Until they don't, which is how the less valuable athletes seem to turn up positive.

 

[Berzin]

I think of all the guys the Federation weren't protecting. The biggest names at the time-Vino, Ullrich, Basso, Landis, etc.

So just as I believe that Ferrari handling The USPS doping program exclusive of any other tour team was a major advantage for many reasons, so was Armstrong's relationship with Hein Verbruggen.

Armstrong could say his doping practices were conservative, they were not if you include all this.

 

[Samson777]

If an athlete knows the leader of the federation is hiding positives, then why would anyone in their right mind stop doping? The federation will just hide it for you. Until they don't, which is how the less valuable athletes seem to turn up positive.

Yes, that was also what made the Chicken consider suicide. Would be a much more interesting story, if more of that practice was brought out in the open, than the normal solo doper stories.. But I doubt how realistic it is. IOC would not allow that I think, and cycling wise Cookson probably have to much too lose, since it is not like he just became a UCI member when he was elected president.