Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

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MarkvW

MarkvW

Aug 10, 2010
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Oldman said:
I was baiting slightly on the Tebow thing but you got the gist of Lance's character analysis. He felt entitled to grab anything, possibly because of his upbringing....but some character seems ingrained.
As for Mark's assertion the USAC "groomed" him: he was among the willing to step up and take dope. Period. That character was imitated by Tyler, George, Christian, Levi and others. Some were less successful and still others showed character and refused. The riders that refused were left on the outside because the details of the LIE need to involve all that benefitted. Lance, Thom Weisel, Gorski all knew that because they were all cheaters in most phases of their professional life. Lance gravitated to it and lent authority to that attitude.
It is unfair to throw Tebow into that mix other than to shed light on the shallowness that some athletes will go to expand marketability. Tebow only had a limited act, so let's find another comparison for that.
Mark's wrong, though. Lance was a sociopath looking for a venue. Why else would he struggle to get back to Tri sports?
Click to expand...

I agree with a lot of what you say. Do you agree with this: From the very beginning, and from the perspective of all the participants (and not necessarily from a wholesome or even realistic perspective), Lance, USAC (and later the UCI) were a perfect dream of a match. They thought they were a match made in heaven.

I'm not arguing that Lance's moral outlook was shaped by USAC/UCI. I'm arguing that USAC saw Lance exactly for what he was and created the environment needed to make him a champion. In other words, USAC was Lance's first "gang." That gang taught him, supported him, and promoted him. Without that gang, he would have been a nothing.
 
blackcat

blackcat

Mar 13, 2009
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MonkeyFace said:
I am no Tim Tebow fan but he would be playing QB irregardless of his jesus shroud if he could play QB. He was the number #1 selling jersey one season and that carries weight.

Any other thing Lance would have gone into likely would have ended the same way. He is ruthless but he is also dumb. Just like your moron friend who goes all-in on every other poker hand. He thinks he is hot **** getting everyone to fold for small pots until he bumps into someone willing to match him with a good hand. Lance would have been small time in any other venture because he can't assess risk and has a preoccupation with turning everything into a ****ing match.
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bob hamman

http://www.dmagazine.com/publicatio...amman-plays-the-right-cards-in-insurance-game
 
blackcat

blackcat

Mar 13, 2009
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Archibald said:
sounds like Nixon - "I am not a crook"


Have to agree on the Floyd side of it. I really don't feel he should profit from this. Enough to ressurect himself for a decent living, perhaps - some compensation for the way he was treated and torn up by LA n Co. But, definately not be profitting in the way he may well do from this...
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I disagree,

Floyd should be able to profit out of this. You are still thinking of Landis the doper, Landis the cyclist.

Ok, compartmentalise it, click it back to Zero. 0. Now begin again.

Landis is blowing the whistle that has come at some cost, but he did so because there is an incentive to. Without the incentive, Landis does not incur the personal cost and getting the story out there.
 
blackcat

blackcat

Mar 13, 2009
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StyrbjornSterki said:
FLandis deserves to be rewarded because none of this would have happened, and Pharmstrong's reputation still would be unbesmirched, still the official winner of seven Tours de France, had Floyd not shattered pro cycling's omertà.

Which only came about as a consequence of Pharmstrong's utter lack of humanity, his failure in the first first part to exert his considerable muscle in Landis' defence (ignoring the possibility he might have been the cause of his troubles), and his failure in the second part for refusing to draw Floyd to his bosom and hire him, giving him a spot on a major team once he had served his suspension.

The irony is that Pharmstrong was not brought down by his cheating, but by his forsaking of friendship and camaraderie.


Hell hath no fury like a Floyd Landis scorned. If he emerges from this with a hundred million US dollars in the bank, I will mark every cent of it well-earned.
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^^^^^^^^^this
this
this
 
Benotti69

Benotti69

May 26, 2010
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StyrbjornSterki said:
FLandis deserves to be rewarded because none of this would have happened, and Pharmstrong's reputation still would be unbesmirched, still the official winner of seven Tours de France, had Floyd not shattered pro cycling's omertà.

Which only came about as a consequence of Pharmstrong's utter lack of humanity, his failure in the first first part to exert his considerable muscle in Landis' defence (ignoring the possibility he might have been the cause of his troubles), and his failure in the second part for refusing to draw Floyd to his bosom and hire him, giving him a spot on a major team once he had served his suspension.

The irony is that Pharmstrong was not brought down by his cheating, but by his forsaking of friendship and camaraderie.


Hell hath no fury like a Floyd Landis scorned. If he emerges from this with a hundred million US dollars in the bank, I will mark every cent of it well-earned.
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this needs to be reposted every week :cool:
 
D

Digger

May 10, 2009
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The people who say he only came forward when he had nothing left to lose - he was told he'd be open to prosecution for the fund...something he barely avoided prison over...and he is court ordered to pay back...so yeah, nothing left to lose. :rolleyes:
 
Berzin

Berzin

Aug 6, 2009
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I just peeped "The Lance Armstrong Story-Stop at Nothing".

It's different from the other programs I've seen on this subject. It was very informative. I had never seen Kimmage's rebuttal to Armstrong when he dissed him at the ToC press conference. He hit Armstrong right back, and good for him for doing so.

Betsy Andreu should be appointed to a high-level cabinet position, like Secretary of State. She was great.

So many funny moments if you're a fan of irony, sarcasm, and dark humor. Man, I couldn't stop laughing...
 
O

Oldman

Jun 19, 2009
6,013
887
19,680
MarkvW said:
I agree with a lot of what you say. Do you agree with this: From the very beginning, and from the perspective of all the participants (and not necessarily from a wholesome or even realistic perspective), Lance, USAC (and later the UCI) were a perfect dream of a match. They thought they were a match made in heaven.

I'm not arguing that Lance's moral outlook was shaped by USAC/UCI. I'm arguing that USAC saw Lance exactly for what he was and created the environment needed to make him a champion. In other words, USAC was Lance's first "gang." That gang taught him, supported him, and promoted him. Without that gang, he would have been a nothing.
Click to expand...

I agree with this except some fine points on the timeline and this is where Weisel drove it all. TW was the first win at all costs neo-felon. He got into racing and then looked to build a ego building toy around that fixation. Eddie B used to fly to Master's Natz venues by helicopter to serve that need. Lance actually was such a demanding pain that he was considered too much trouble. He thought he was the Center of the Universe even before Weisel was aware of "potential" and seized the opportunity. It was a marriage made in their heaven.
 
blackcat

blackcat

Mar 13, 2009
16,853
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Berzin said:
I just peeped "The Lance Armstrong Story-Stop at Nothing".

It's different from the other programs I've seen on this subject. It was very informative. I had never seen Kimmage's rebuttal to Armstrong when he dissed him at the ToC press conference. He hit Armstrong right back, and good for him for doing so.

Betsy Andreu should be appointed to a high-level cabinet position, like Secretary of State. She was great.

So many funny moments if you're a fan of irony, sarcasm, and dark humor. Man, I couldn't stop laughing...
Click to expand...
i told her that she proved that the aphorism tv puts on 10lbs was apocryphal. it really puts on 15lbs. On this subject, Lance was right.

/irony for those not au fait of my tenor
 
StyrbjornSterki

StyrbjornSterki

Jul 18, 2010
1,301
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David Walsh, from "The Lance Armstrong Story - Stop at Nothing,"

When Floyd has lost all his money fighting his ban, and he calls up Johan Bruyneel and says, 'Look, will you get me on your team? I need a place.'

And Lance and Bruyneel, both kindred spirits in terms of having no emotional intelligence, decide they don't want to have anything to do with Floyd. He's just a loser, he got caught.

They don't realize that they're ...they're actually handling a ...a ticking bomb here. Floyd has offered them a chance to defuse the bomb. To take out that little pin or whatever. Give him a little small job in the team, everything is okay.

They tell him to get lost, and the bomb blows up in their faces.
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P

Pazuzu

Feb 4, 2012
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BikeCentric

BikeCentric

Apr 9, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
Perhaps the biggest miscalculation in the history of sports.
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Yes. I just finished "Cycle of Lies" and in it Landis most definitely comes across as the type of guy you clearly don't want to mess with. So of course Armstrong decides he absolutely must mess with with and dominate Floyd - didn't work out so well for Lance. He made the same miscalculation with Tygart, and "Tiger" Williams, and Bob Hamman. Armstrong just has to make enemies, it's in his nature, and I guess he just doesn't understand that most enemies want to get even and most of the people he thought he was dominating were actually a lot smarter than him and just biding their time to take him down in a calculated manner.
 
Granville57

Granville57

Dec 7, 2010
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Pazuzu said:
Good luck with that. Exaclty two people will donate to it -- Scott Mercier & Emma O'Reilly... oh and Kristin Armstrong, OK so that make three.:D
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Maybe Lance will be left with only Floyd to approach for some seed money.
 
Scott SoCal

Scott SoCal

Nov 8, 2012
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0
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Pazuzu said:
Good luck with that. Exaclty two people will donate to it -- Scott Mercier & Emma O'Reilly... oh and Kristin Armstrong, OK so that make three.:D
Click to expand...

Maybe his new foundation will be designed as a resource for those in - and to raise awareness as to the difficulties of - bankruptcy. He could sell bracelets maybe;

images
 
Archibald

Archibald

Jun 15, 2009
3,404
17
13,510
blackcat said:
I disagree,

Floyd should be able to profit out of this. You are still thinking of Landis the doper, Landis the cyclist.

Ok, compartmentalise it, click it back to Zero. 0. Now begin again.

Landis is blowing the whistle that has come at some cost, but he did so because there is an incentive to. Without the incentive, Landis does not incur the personal cost and getting the story out there.
Click to expand...

I didn't say he should get nothing - I give him full credit for turning whistleblower. That's no small thing to go up against the LA Corporation

Pazuzu said:
Good luck with that. Exaclty two people will donate to it -- Scott Mercier & Emma O'Reilly... oh and Kristin Armstrong, OK so that make three.:D
Click to expand...

McConaughey? or has that lovefest ended too
 
DirtyWorks

DirtyWorks

Feb 10, 2010
10,645
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22,510
Scott SoCal said:
Perhaps the biggest miscalculation in the history of sports.
Click to expand...

Also worth noting, Per JV1973, ASO and the UCI are directly involved in rider selection on teams.

I agree that Hog and Co could have miscalculated on their own. Just a couple of other possibilities.
 
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