Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Scott SoCal]

To be fair on Bernie he did have a lot people invest with him of their own accord. A lot of them were fairly thick not to realise that his year on year gains defied all known logic. He was not culpable alone. Along with the fact that every investment bank in town knew he was a shiester along with the SEC jumping into to bed with him along with the government.

Bernie was not actually all that bad. He was just too nice and wanted everyone to be rich. I don't have a whole lot of empathy that Brad Pitt avoided paying tax by investing with Madoff.

Lance in my mind was way worse than Bernie Madoff. Giving false hope to those stricken with cancer on a human level is very sick. Very sick indeed.

This trollkraft blows.

 

[Scott SoCal]

What is absurd is the notion that his lawyers are bleeding him dry. What alternative does he have? To represent as a layperson? Of course he has to appoint representation. By not doing so would be absurd.

This trollkraft blows. You are having an off-day.

 

[thehog]

This trollkraft blows.

It's very well documented the assistance the SEC gave Madoff. You perhaps should educate yourself rather than troll as you are. Its a well known fact that the SEC were asleep at the wheel and fraternising with the Madoff family. Key personal within the SEC were dressed down in the congress headings. Most resigned.

Madoff never would have been who he was nor pull off what he did what did without the government and the SEC allowing him to do so. Takes the time educate yourself. You might learn something.

It's a little like the UCI allowing doping.

 

[thehog]

This trollkraft blows. You are having an off-day.

So you think Armstrong shouldn't be represented by a lawyer?

That's utterly absurd.

 

[MarkvW]

What is absurd is the notion that his lawyers are bleeding him dry. What alternative does he have? To represent as a layperson? Of course he has to appoint representation. By not doing so would be absurd.

I suspect that financially Lance considers himself a dead man walking, and he just doesn't care.

 

[86TDFWinner]

No, 86TDF is. He’s the one claiming that LA’s connections are all that are preventing him from being put away from life now.

Umm, NOOOOOO! You asked why he wasn't in jail, and up til recently it has been his connections(lawyers), and the fact that he has piles of $$$ to defend himself from going to jail. hasnt this been obvious to you? Of course it has.

Actually, 86TDF said LA was “much worse” than Madoff, so I guess he thinks LA deserves the death penalty, since that is the only sentence worth than life imprisonment. Except that now 86TDF has been called out, he says he was being factious, i.e., intentionally trying to create divisions, which is a pretty good definition of trolling, though to be fair I think he meant facetious.

Whoops, sorry for the misspelling. Yes, what Wonderboy has done is basically on par with what Madoff did IMO, but thats MY opinion of course. You "called me out" on nothing, since most of what you say is facetious. I was intentionally what? seems YOU have serious issues with what was a harmless comment, and you're **** hurt now.

So if I understand the new, revised 86TDF correctly, he thinks LA deserves the same life imprisonment as Madoff, not anything worse, because he ripped off the foundation, though the foundation itself has not filed any charges, and neither as far as I know have any cancer patients.

What "revisions" did I make exactly? LOL, You pointed out all the wonderful work he's done supposedly for all the cancer people, and it's been posted here ad nauseum about how the whole "Livestrong Foundation", is, was and continues to be a sham. I can't believe we're even discussing this, but not not surprising coming from you.

Except that he was being factious, or probably facetious, so doesn't really mean it. So I guess he doesn't think LA should be in jail for life, even though he also says LA would have been without connections.

LOL, You have issues.....YOU'RE the only one taking issues with what I said, not surprising though.

Psst, I’m a cancer researcher, and I know they’re an awareness foundation. That does not rise to the crime of a Madoff. In fact, it’s not a crime at all that I’m aware of.

Umm, hate to break it to you, but YEAH, it DOES. Both duped hundreds of millions of dollars from folks for their own personal gains. Wonderboy took it a step further though, because he continued lying/bullying/scamming folks for the better part of a decade. Because of his $$$ and his lawyers, he's avoided any sort of jail time, even after perjuring himself. So orry to contradict myself here, but now that i think it over again, Madoff and Wonderboy are bad people, and Wonderboy used a phoney foundation in order to commit serious fraud.

Sorry you can't comprehend any of this. Go troll someone else.

 

[86TDFWinner]

What are your estimates of a possible settlement? How likely and how much? Supposedly the government wanted, I keep forgetting what was reported, something like $13 million? You said you knew someone who reported some offer to you. Seems at this point $20-30 million would be a bargain for LA, assuming the government would take it. But maybe he can't even afford that, particularly if he's going to lose a lot to SCA.

If the settlement were $20-$30 million, then no way the govt settles for that.

 

[86TDFWinner]

I suspect that financially Lance considers himself a dead man walking, and he just doesn't care.

I doubt this very much. He doesnt want to lose anything monetarily to anyone...even SCA, and that's nowhere near the ballpark of what the Qui tam case is. he cares, his $$$ is the only thing he has left pretty much.

 

[MarkvW]

I doubt this very much. He doesnt want to lose anything monetarily to anyone...even SCA, and that's nowhere near the ballpark of what the Qui tam case is. he cares, his $$$ is the only thing he has left pretty much.

I think Lance was telling the truth when he said he didn't have $100M. I also think that Lance is seriously screwed in the qui tam. He's doomed on liability, and as the article RR posted notes, it is looking really bad on damages--maybe summary judgment bad. That doesn't portend a favorable settlement--at all. And I'm not even discussing SCA exposure. Whether Lance expensively litigates, or not, he's still going to likely lose his fortune. So why not expensively litigate? The longer he protracts things, the longer he can enjoy his wine cellar.

 

[86TDFWinner]

I think Lance was telling the truth when he said he didn't have $100M

.

Unfortunately, We'll probably never know. He very well could've hidden the cash in some off shore accounts or something, just my guess.

I also think that Lance is seriously screwed in the qui tam. He's doomed on liability, and as the article RR posted notes, it is looking really bad on damages--maybe summary judgment bad.

I agree here, but he's not smart enough to realize that IMO.

That doesn't portend a favorable settlement--at all. And I'm not even discussing SCA exposure. Whether Lance expensively litigates, or not, he's still going to likely lose his fortune. So why not expensively litigate? The longer he protracts things, the longer he can enjoy his wine cellar.

Not to mention, the more $$$ he burns through, which I'm assuming is the reason why he's wasting so much time during both cases. Maybe he thinks by doing this, he'll blow through it all w/expensive litigation, and when it comes time to pay, he claims he can't, as he's broke due to the lengthy court cases.

 

[buckle]

These are tough times for WASPs who desperately need hero so I can understand why they love him in the States still. I can also understand why he was pinged as the Americans love to convince themselves that they have no issues (coughs nervously) with the 'r' word. The image therefore of doctors from the 'burbs' juicing dumb kids from the 'projects' which was emerging from USADA was offset by the Armstrong bust.

 

[del1962]

These are tough times for WASPs who desperately need hero so I can understand why they love him in the States still. I can also understand why he was pinged as the Americans love to convince themselves that they have no issues (coughs nervously) with the 'r' word. The image therefore of doctors from the 'burbs' juicing dumb kids from the 'projects' which was emerging from USADA was offset by the Armstrong bust.

You seem obsessed with WASPs, strange laddie.

 

[the sceptic]

What is absurd is the notion that his lawyers are bleeding him dry. What alternative does he have? To represent as a layperson? Of course he has to appoint representation. By not doing so would be absurd.

Well, he could have asked one of the clinic lawyers?

By the way.. Why is Lance personally responsible for paying back the sponsorship money, what about everyone else that were involved in the doping?*



*Im not a lawyer, sorry if this is a stupid question.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Well, he could have asked one of the clinic lawyers?

By the way.. Why is Lance personally responsible for paying back the sponsorship money, what about everyone else that were involved in the doping?*



*Im not a lawyer, sorry if this is a stupid question.

The term you're looking for is Joint and Several Liability. They can collect from any one or multiple defendants. I'd go to the deepest pockets, and then let them fight it out with the rest of the crew themselves. If they get it all from Lance, it's up to him to get the share everyone else owes himself. He would have to file his own action to do so.

Ain't the law grand!

 

[WillemS]

.
I agree here, but he's not smart enough to realize that IMO.

If some random guy on the internet, without access to a lot of information, realizes something, then I think someone closer to him will make the same inference.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Well, he could have asked one of the clinic lawyers?

By the way.. Why is Lance personally responsible for paying back the sponsorship money, what about everyone else that were involved in the doping?*



*Im not a lawyer, sorry if this is a stupid question.

This is also why MarkvW's "Lance has no motivation to bring Weisel into this" line is ridiculous...Lance has millions of reasons to have Weisel named as a defendant.

 

[thehog]

I suspect that financially Lance considers himself a dead man walking, and he just doesn't care.

I think he cares very much. But agree, he is a dead man walking and he knows it. That's why hiring a legal to reduce the dead man walking part makes very good sense.

If your exposure is $100m and your legal team gets you to settle at $35m then that's a victory of sorts. Lawyers aren't allowed to "bleed" their clients dry. That is against the law.

 

[Bannockburn]

This times 100! I've being telling people this for years. Any former winner who thinks Lance should have his tours back has quite simply just admitted his own guilt to doping. These guys all think cheating is ok. They want to be able to keep theirs even though they cheated as well. It really is a sad state of affairs. Sooooo many cheaters.....

They don't even think it's cheating.

 

[nevada]

How much would he have been worth without the doping ?

 

[Warhawk]

These are tough times for WASPs who desperately need hero so I can understand why they love him in the States still. I can also understand why he was pinged as the Americans love to convince themselves that they have no issues (coughs nervously) with the 'r' word. The image therefore of doctors from the 'burbs' juicing dumb kids from the 'projects' which was emerging from USADA was offset by the Armstrong bust.

No we don't.

 

[the sceptic]

How much would he have been worth without the doping ?

This whole case seems absurd to me, but I guess thats the legal games.

How can they say they didnt get any value for their money if they didnt even know about the doping at the time? It appears like money well spent to me. Great publicity.

Would the 40 million have been better off if Lance was riding in the autobus? Or maybe they could have sued him then too.

 

[Race Radio]

they love him in the States still

Huh? Outside of a handful of remaining groupies and internet trolls Wonderboy is reviled in the US.

It is not just Lance but also the folks who helped him with his fraud. Last night at the ESPYs Stuart Scott, a ESPN commentator fighting cancer, was given a special award. It was proceeded by a video featuring various folks from the cancer community, including Doug Ulman (Head of Livestrong). Doug was booed loudly by the live audience, so loud they had to turn down the audio on the broadcast.

 

[Race Radio]

This whole case seems absurd to me, but I guess thats the legal games.

How can they say they didnt get any value for their money if they didnt even know about the doping at the time? It appears like money well spent to me. Great publicity.

Would the 40 million have been better off if Lance was riding in the autobus? Or maybe they could have sued him then too.

If you read the thread, and the documents, you would know that is not what the case is about. It has been covered over and over.

 

[thehog]

This whole case seems absurd to me, but I guess thats the legal games.

How can they say they didnt get any value for their money if they didnt even know about the doping at the time? It appears like money well spent to me. Great publicity.

Would the 40 million have been better off if Lance was riding in the autobus? Or maybe they could have sued him then too.

It's an interesting question. If he came back from cancer and presented himself as the "average guy" making it good in the peloton he would have been ok. He wasn't Froome. Armstrong could maybe win a stage at the Tour and one day races. He could have even become a David Miller type and campaigned to rid the sport of the doping that have him cancer. Still would have made money. Good money as well.

But it wasn't him. He had to win all the time. So he fairly much went back to what he was doing and on a much larger scale.

There was an interview around the time after he came back after cancer when he returned to Europe. He had very poor results and went back to Texas again. He sounded humble and disillusioned. Almost likeable. It's probably around that time he decided that he was going to do this thing "hard" or not at all.

Sliding Doors. What could have been.

 

[the sceptic]

If you read the thread, and the documents, you would know that is not what the case is about. It has been covered over and over.

It just seems absurd to me that Lance has to pay back the sponsorship money. That is all.