Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Warhawk]

Huh? Outside of a handful of remaining groupies and internet trolls Wonderboy is reviled in the US.

It is not just Lance but also the folks who helped him with his fraud. Last night at the ESPYs Stuart Scott, a ESPN commentator fighting cancer, was given a special award. It was proceeded by a video featuring various folks from the cancer community, including Doug Ulman (Head of Livestrong). Doug was booed loudly by the live audience, so loud they had to turn down the audio on the broadcast.

Eh, that's actually a little unfortunate, it's not really Ulman's fault. I'm not sure Livestrong can be salvaged, but I find it hard to blame Ulman for trying.

As to your larger point, it's worth pointing out that we have more reason to despise him than most. He betrayed the trust we placed in him. In some ways, that's more damnable than the simple act of cheating.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

I searched this thread for the word "bankruptcy" and got 41 hits. So rather than scour the 41 posts, I'm going to pretend the answer(s) might have changed in light of recent developments and ask, how much does Pharmstrong stand to lessen his losses if he takes bankruptcy? And how much less opulently does that mean FLandis will be feathering his nest with his split from the Qui Tam?

 

[Race Radio]

I think Lance was telling the truth when he said he didn't have $100M. I also think that Lance is seriously screwed in the qui tam. He's doomed on liability, and as the article RR posted notes, it is looking really bad on damages--maybe summary judgment bad. That doesn't portend a favorable settlement--at all. And I'm not even discussing SCA exposure. Whether Lance expensively litigates, or not, he's still going to likely lose his fortune. So why not expensively litigate? The longer he protracts things, the longer he can enjoy his wine cellar.

A couple years back Lance was telling folks he had $100 million, now it is time to play poor.

The last 6 years have been characterized by constant legal failure by Lance's legal team. Each maneuver results in the hole getting dug deeper. Opportunities to settle for comparatively small amounts are passed up for strategies that have been shown by experts, both real and internet, to make little legal sense and result in the situation getting worse.

While Herman is pretty clueless the rest are high dollar guys, best in their field. Why would they want to be associated with such a high profile failure? Have to wonder if lance negotiated some kind of alternative payment structure like a flat fee or a discounted hourly rate because at this point it appears he has received little value for his legal dollar

 

[Race Radio]

Eh, that's actually a little unfortunate, it's not really Ulman's fault.

Livestrong wasted hundreds of millions of dollars that donors gave thinking it went to cancer but was instead spent on $6,000,000 parties, extensive travel, advertising to promote the myth, and lobbying to protect Lance. Doug was integral in that portion of the fraud so it is understandable that some folks would be not be happy with him

 

[Race Radio]

I searched this thread for the word "bankruptcy" and got 41 hits. So rather than scour the 41 posts, I'm going to pretend the answer(s) might have changed in light of recent developments and ask, how much does Pharmstrong stand to lessen his losses if he takes bankruptcy? And how much less opulently does that mean FLandis will be feathering his nest with his split from the Qui Tam?

As far as I know any Qui Tam case settlement/judgement cannot be reduced in bankruptcy. The Government gets their money. SCA case could but I doubt they would allow for any extended payment schedule as they know this is a risk. In the previous settlement the majority of the money was paid in 30 days, expect the same this time.

 

[thehog]

Eh, that's actually a little unfortunate, it's not really Ulman's fault. I'm not sure Livestrong can be salvaged, but I find it hard to blame Ulman for trying.

As to your larger point, it's worth pointing out that we have more reason to despise him than most. He betrayed the trust we placed in him. In some ways, that's more damnable than the simple act of cheating.

There were a lot of people who just couldn't be told the bleeding obvious. They all wanted to believe.

Ulman was giving people what they craved. It was so disappointing to see the commercialisation of cancer.

 

[Warhawk]

Livestrong wasted hundreds of millions of dollars that donors gave thinking it went to cancer but was instead spent on $6,000,000 parties, extensive travel, advertising to promote the myth, and lobbying to protect Lance. Doug was integral in that portion of the fraud so it is understandable that some folks would be not be happy with him

Yeah, but he struck me more as a naïve dupe. Maybe with Lance out of the picture they can focus on actually helping people. Maybe I'm just naïve too, but I hope that's the case.

 

[blackcat]

Livestrong wasted hundreds of millions of dollars that donors gave thinking it went to cancer but was instead spent on $6,000,000 parties, extensive travel, advertising to promote the myth, and lobbying to protect Lance. Doug was integral in that portion of the fraud so it is understandable that some folks would be not be happy with him

yellow rose, coke, hookers too?

 

[thehog]

It just seems absurd to me that Lance has to pay back the sponsorship money. That is all.

It does a little but he knowingly entered into a contract to deceive. This wasn't just some accident. He risked their reputation and their money. At the time he should have given more consideration & thought that USPS wasn't a private company.

Festina benefited significantly from the Festina affair. Being a private company they had no interest in collecting on the sponsorship deal and nor could a citizen make a claim on their behalf.

Some due diligence on Lance's behalf way back when could have saved him a lot of money.

 

[thrawn]

Livestrong wasted hundreds of millions of dollars that donors gave thinking it went to cancer but was instead spent on $6,000,000 parties, extensive travel, advertising to promote the myth, and lobbying to protect Lance. Doug was integral in that portion of the fraud so it is understandable that some folks would be not be happy with him

$6mil parties???

 

[Benotti69]

Yeah, but he struck me more as a naïve dupe. Maybe with Lance out of the picture they can focus on actually helping people. Maybe I'm just naïve too, but I hope that's the case.

How could he be naive when he saw what was happening to donations? He jumped on the gravy train like plenty of others!!!

 

[Warhawk]

How could he be naive when he saw what was happening to donations? He jumped on the gravy train like plenty of others!!!

If he bought Lance's story, he could have seen it as PR necessary to the proper operation of the charitable organization.

 

[DirtyWorks]

If he bought Lance's story, he could have seen it as PR necessary to the proper operation of the charitable organization.

And Captain Renault was shocked to hear of gambling going on in this establishment.

The inverse of doing nothing was doing something that ended his career. Or, maybe just walk away. But, what org leader walks away from a growing operation?

The org was based on a fraud. The people behind the org knew it. I'm looking at Thom and Bart among others behind the scenes. When you are dealing with fraudsters, nothing seems right and there's no way the org leader didn't know it.

 

[Benotti69]

If he bought Lance's story, he could have seen it as PR necessary to the proper operation of the charitable organization.

Then he deserves what is coming to him.

Livewrong were not doing much that could be considered charitable.

Plenty of people have posted about Armstrong treating donors with complete disdain. Writing was on the wall. Just had to read Walsh's books, talk to a few people. Ullman can't blame anyone else for his own failings. Ullman was living in the internet age. Plenty of livewrong interns posting in here before the reasoned decision. Did Ullman order that?

 

[luckyboy]

My gran told me that Lance was on British TV show 'This Morning' with Emma O'Reilly today.

Is this true?! I find it hard to believe. Can't find anything about it on the internet anyway.

 

[del1962]

My gran told me that Lance was on British TV show 'This Morning' with Emma O'Reilly today.

Is this true?! I find it hard to believe. Can't find anything about it on the internet anyway.

Emma O'Reilly was on

Emma O'Reilly on This Morning

 

[MarkvW]

I've wondered how much money was transferred from Livestrong to Lance under the category of "services rendered." Not including scams like the Canadian cancer ride where Lance took a cut off the top.

 

[86TDFWinner]

I've wondered how much money was transferred from Livestrong to Lance under the category of "services rendered." Not including scams like the Canadian cancer ride where Lance took a cut off the top.

Has to be millions. Keep in mind, he's also used Livewrong funding for his plane, and parties, and so forth.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I've wondered how much money was transferred from Livestrong to Lance under the category of "services rendered." Not including scams like the Canadian cancer ride where Lance took a cut off the top.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

This is a common non-profit strategy.

For example, a fun ride can claim "all proceeds go to charity XYZ." What they don't tell you is that revenue is paid out as an expense to the promoter, paid appearances, whatnot leaving the charity some pittance of the income.

To be clear, there are legitimate costs, street closure, porta-potties, etc. But, non-profit status is not some guarantee of best practices. And it's not a crime to operate a non-profit this way.

 

[thehog]

My gran told me that Lance was on British TV show 'This Morning' with Emma O'Reilly today.

Is this true?! I find it hard to believe. Can't find anything about it on the internet anyway.

Never trust your grandmother

 

[the sceptic]

Never trust your grandmother

she might be a co-conspirator

 

[thehog]

she might be a co-conspirator

Its grandmas job to clean up cycling

 

[Catwhoorg]

My grandmother would fail a dope test.

Cannot trust a doper like that.

 

[thehog]

My grandmother would fail a dope test.

Cannot trust a doper like that.

High readings of Brandy and Lemsip?

 

[D-Queued]

I suspect that financially Lance considers himself a dead man walking, and he just doesn't care.

That is not the MO of a psycho/sociopath.

While he may not have a conscience, and doesn't care in that regard, he cares about Lance, including his money.

Dave.