Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[ChewbaccaD]

It is not forbidden to keep two conflicting ideas going at once. Introduce inflammatory language ("Wonderboy and the faithful"), and you might even stimulate an emotionally charged argument from someone who is annoyed with being unfairly tarred with the fanboy brush.

...says the poser who has "Cancer Boy and the Dopestrongs" as his avatar...

We do know what the rest of the peloton did--almost without exception, they praised Lance as a great champion. Either professional cyclists (a) have no idea what a great cycling champion is, (b) were unaware of Lance's doping; or (c) they were lying like crazy. In a thoroughly corrupt sport, where "races" are often nothing more than parades, I would expect them to lie like crazy. Doping is just something that professional cyclists do.

...searching for a point here, not really finding anything but fluff.

Why would one doper snitch off another? Why spit in the soup? Tyler Hamilton said that Lance was just doing what everybody else was doing. I believe him on that point. Floyd doesn't regret the doping, only the lying.

Questions presented and recitation of facts, but no analysis. Did you even pass the bar?

McQuaid and Verbruggen both got reelected, and McQuaid was Verbruggen's boy. This indicates that the federations loved the UCI's policies to whatever extent they favored Lance. Even after the Sysmexican money was reported, a very substantial minority of the federations voted for McQuaid.

McQuaid is a bad guy, very bad. Cycling is a bad sport, very bad.

What could the peloton do? Why would it do anything? It was fully complicit with Lance because it had no problems whatsoever with what Lance was doing?

Rhetorical questions, the hallmark of any good argument.

Sure, Lance is a bad guy. Destroying Greg Lemond's bike business was nasty and his treatment of the Andreus was awful. None of his badnesses bothered the peloton, though. It simply didn't care. Awful champions are not rare. Ty Cobb, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Kobe Bryant, and a universe of very bad champion professional football players (European and US) are proof of that. Lance is just another bad person who happens to be an athlete.

The "Lance was no different" line of apologist drivel, CHECK.

The "donkey" talk doesn't make any sense to me. Professional cycling is not a test of natural ability. It is a test of natural ability plus dope. The peloton is completely indifferent to whether a person is a "natural" champion or a "chemically enhanced" champion. Cycling has always been a doping game. It's never been about "purity" of any kind. It's about doing whatever it takes to win, with a Formula 1 / NASCAR attitude that if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying.

Cycling is bad, very bad. Cycling is the same as car racing. Very bad, but more apologist drivel just to cover all of the bases.

I want Lance to fall hard, not because he's the great corrupter of the peloton, but because he's the biggest and most visible symptom of just how sick professional cycling is. Bernard Hinault, notwithstanding.

Suuuurrreee you do...

MarkvW, slayer of Floyd Landis, defender of Stephanie McIlvain...because Stephanie has acted in such a virtuous manner...

 

[Oldman]

Yes. I wasn't denying it. Is it forbidden to keep two conflicting ideas going at once?

Idea #1: Cycling as a vaguely legitimate sport.
Idea #2: Cycling so thoroughly corrupted it may as well be the WWE.




What exactly would a team that constantly lost to Wiesel and Wonderboy do? To be fair, Wonderboy left the rest of the WT table scraps, basically most of the rest of the calendar.

The WWE controls it's image well and makes a lot of money. That is a fundamental difference with cycling....

 

[grizzlee]

Thats a bit OTT Chewie. I justed wasted about 2 mins of my life reading that sarcastic drivel.

 

[bodhizaffa]

What did Kobe Bryant do?

 

[DirtyWorks]

The WWE controls it's image well and makes a lot of money. That is a fundamental difference with cycling....

Well, we don't really know who is making what money with cycling besides Steve Johnson at USAC making $300,000+ on the books. And we know there is a whole other economy under the table.

Before deniers pretend there isn't a secondary revenue flow, please recall Gerard Bisceglia's brief work at USAC and the reason for his departure. (Och figures into it... What a surprise) There's also the UCI's mysterious license holding company for "Tour of XYZ" that has never been revealed.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Thats a bit OTT Chewie. I justed wasted about 2 mins of my life reading that sarcastic drivel.

You're welcome: http://www.spreeder.com/

 

[thehog]

Looks like SuperFrog is back on the program

Cookson has given lance a deal.

Cookson also announced that the UCI’s ‘Truth Commission’ could publish the results of its research in by March 2015.

The former British Cycling president again admitted that Lance Armstrong’s lifetime ban could be reduced if the evidence he provides to the independent inquiry is ‘helpful’, having previously said there may be a route to redemption for the banned rider.

“I do not know what conclusions will be drawn [from the commission], though I would draw a line when the results are known,” he said. “Maybe in the first third of 2015 the outcome of this research will be known.

“Lance Armstrong is banned for life, but I would find what he has to say very interesting and it would be a key contribution [to the investigation]. He talked with the panel and will do so again. If it helps, his suspension could decrease.”

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/brian-cookson-agrees-jail-terms-drug-cheats-145338

 

[D-Queued]

Looks like SuperFrog is back on the program

Cookson has given lance a deal.



http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/brian-cookson-agrees-jail-terms-drug-cheats-145338

No deal there.

Sounds like Cookson would be interested in what Lance could say about Nein and Phat.

Don't hold your breath.

Dave.

 

[DirtyWorks]

No deal there.

Sounds like Cookson would be interested in what Lance could say about Nein and Phat.

Don't hold your breath.

Dave.

Nope. CIRC people have already stated they want a reduced sanction. We know Cookson is protecting the interests of the UCI first. And the UCI appears to still be in love with Armstrong. Either that, or, Wonderboy is holding the UCI hostage with what he knows.

Now, how it plays out between many political interests outside the UCI is an open question.

 

[Granville57]

Nope. CIRC people have already stated they want a reduced sanction.

Specifically regarding Armstrong? The Panel of Three have stated that?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Specifically regarding Armstrong? The Panel of Three have stated that?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lan...ence-to-cycling-independent-reform-commission

Peters said. "We do think the ban was unfairly harsh and should be reduced.... He's talking in the spirit of not trying to benefit by getting somebody else in trouble, but in the spirit of let's tell the truth."

After the bolded part is another clue anything the CIRC produces will only be useful if printed on toilet paper. It reads like Armstrong, all by himself, pulled off the biggest global sports fraud probably ever. Vrijman report 2.0.

As discussed previously, lots of moving parts to getting the ban reduced, so I don't really know if it will happen. But, if the UCI (Cookson) had their way, that ban would be gone.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Why would one doper snitch off another? Why spit in the soup? Tyler Hamilton said that Lance was just doing what everybody else was doing. I believe him on that point. Floyd doesn't regret the doping, only the lying.

Same with any doper, including your man Wonderboy. Most didn't "speak out" for fear of intimidation/bullying/losing their livelyhood. The last line you wrote describes your boy Lance perfectly. He's mad he got caught.

McQuaid and Verbruggen both got reelected, and McQuaid was Verbruggen's boy. This indicates that the federations loved the UCI's policies to whatever extent they favored Lance. Even after the Sysmexican money was reported, a very substantial minority of the federations voted for McQuaid.

LOL, but what happened to Pat and Verbruggen? Both got launched.

What could the peloton do? Why would it do anything? It was fully complicit with Lance because it had no problems whatsoever with what Lance was doing?

Nope, because most were doing it too, not on the level of Wonderboy mind you, but many doped.

Sure, Lance is a bad guy. Destroying Greg Lemond's bike business was nasty and his treatment of the Andreus was awful. None of his badnesses bothered the peloton, though. It simply didn't care. Awful champions are not rare. Ty Cobb, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Kobe Bryant, and a universe of very bad champion professional football players (European and US) are proof of that. Lance is just another bad person who happens to be an athlete.

Last I checked, Barry Bonds wasn't a "champion" except for maybe home runs, and that's questionable too. FYI: He's not getting into the HOF anytime soon, so he's not really a "champion" is he? That would be a no.

The "donkey" talk doesn't make any sense to me. Professional cycling is not a test of natural ability. It is a test of natural ability plus dope. The peloton is completely indifferent to whether a person is a "natural" champion or a "chemically enhanced" champion. Cycling has always been a doping game. It's never been about "purity" of any kind. It's about doing whatever it takes to win, with a Formula 1 / NASCAR attitude that if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying.

This makes no sense. AGAIN, you're making EXCUSES for doping/dopers. My guess is, if you were one of those clean dopers, who was beaten by a doper in a race, you'd be ****ed, and have a different way of thinking on this.

I want Lance to fall hard, not because he's the great corrupter of the peloton, but because he's the biggest and most visible symptom of just how sick professional cycling is. Bernard Hinault, notwithstanding.

How is Hinault suddenly thrown into the "most despicable person in cycling" discussion, explain your logic here? Hinault was/is nowhere in the vicinity of being bad, or even remotely on the same radar, or page as to doing even a 1/3rd of what Wonderboy has done.

You really need to get out more.

 

[neineinei]

Looks like SuperFrog is back on the program

Cookson has given lance a deal.



http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/brian-cookson-agrees-jail-terms-drug-cheats-145338

Neither Cookson nor CIRC has the power to just grant a reduced sanction. USADA and WADA has the right to veto any reduction of sanction for Armstrong.

68. On a case by case basis, the CIRC can recommend an ad hoc reduction in sanction for a LH who is: (i) currently serving a period of ineligibility; or (ii) currently facing disciplinary proceedings, along the lines of the Reduced Sanctions defined in Section IV.B if said LH provides the CIRC with particularly valuable anti-doping relevant information:

(i) The reduction proposed by the CIRC is subject to the agreement of : (i) the UCI; (ii) the ADO which investigated and prosecuted the case which resulted in the period of ineligibility currently being served ; and (iii) WADA

http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/CleanSport/16/53/44/AdHocregulationCIRC2014ENG_English.PDF

 

[neineinei]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lan...ence-to-cycling-independent-reform-commission

Peters said. "We do think the ban was unfairly harsh and should be reduced.... He's talking in the spirit of not trying to benefit by getting somebody else in trouble, but in the spirit of let's tell the truth."

After the bolded part is another clue anything the CIRC produces will only be useful if printed on toilet paper. It reads like Armstrong, all by himself, pulled off the biggest global sports fraud probably ever. Vrijman report 2.0.

As discussed previously, lots of moving parts to getting the ban reduced, so I don't really know if it will happen. But, if the UCI (Cookson) had their way, that ban would be gone.

Peters is Armstrongs attorney.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Peters is Armstrongs attorney.

Yeah!!! Haha! I screwed that one up.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/independent-reform-commission-offers-olive-branch-to-lance-armstrong

The public should not expect a circus atmosphere around the proceedings. The CIRC, it said, will "conduct its investigation on a strictly confidential basis and will take all measures necessary to guarantee such confidentiality."

Vrijman report 2.0.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Cookson has given lance a deal.

I don't think that matters, VERY UNLIKELY USADA accepts any "deal" for Wonderboy.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Neither Cookson nor CIRC has the power to just grant a reduced sanction. USADA and WADA has the right to veto any reduction of sanction for Armstrong.

Exactly!!! USADA can reduce it, Tygarts said that numerous times, and said Wonderboy refuses to cooperate.

ONLY USADA/WADA can reduce his ban, regardless of whatever "Clueless" Cookson says.

Cookson is a tool.

 

[thehog]

I don't think that matters, VERY UNLIKELY USADA accepts any "deal" for Wonderboy.

Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia, Tygart will have to buckle and step down.

 

[D-Queued]

Wonderboy and the faithful are trying very hard to make every era the same such that wonderboy remains 'a champion' instead of the donkey he actually was.

I have to wonder if Hinault has inside-circ information. It would explain the sudden change in opinion. That's a crazy guess.

Not sure about the inner circle info.

But, this does prove one thing. Lance WAS telling the truth all along.

The French, they hate him.

Dave.

 

[grizzlee]

You're welcome: http://www.spreeder.com/

As much as it pains me to say it i actually laughed at that link.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Exactly!!! USADA can reduce it, Tygarts said that numerous times, and said Wonderboy refuses to cooperate.

ONLY USADA/WADA can reduce his ban, regardless of whatever "Clueless" Cookson says.

Cookson is a tool.

Or, per the WADA rules, the UCI appends their sanction rules so USADA has no choice when applying the federation's rules.

IMO, the UCI will go to great lengths to get the ban reduced. The IOC might actually see it as a pr problem. It should be interesting. Let's hope the sanction stands.

 

[Benotti69]

Monekymouth still being used to sell magazines

http://rouleur.cc/journal/riders/coming-soon-rouleur-lance-youve-never-seen-him

 

[thehog]

Monekymouth still being used to sell magazines

http://rouleur.cc/journal/riders/coming-soon-rouleur-lance-youve-never-seen-him

Fight like Lance!

When USADA released its Reasoned Decision in October 2012, Lance Armstrong was sunk. He rapidly went from being a modern sporting figurehead to one of its biggest frauds.

He has been expunged from Tour de France records, banned from all sport, dropped by former sponsors and still potentially faces a $100 million lawsuit.

So, how is life for Lance? Is he sorry? Morten Okbo and Jakob Kristian Sørensen find out over three days at his home in Aspen. The result, appearing in issue 51 of Rouleur, is an interview like no other.

“You’re an *******,” our man Morten begins. Armstrong agrees, but he’s not taking anything else lying down.

He goes on to discuss remorse and recriminations, haters and hypocrisy, Twitter-baiting, Tygart and Tinkov, plus his suggestions on how to improve modern cycling. One thing is abundantly clear: the American isn’t going down without a fight.

Lance Armstrong polarises opinion like no other cyclist past or present. Some of you will love the interview, some will loath it.

But, as always with Morten and Jakob’s work, it is compelling – and it gets inside Armstrong’s world like no article you have read before.

Issue 51 of Rouleur goes on sale at the end of November 2014.

 

[D-Queued]

Fight like Lance!

...He goes on to discuss remorse and recriminations, haters and hypocrisy, Twitter-baiting, Tygart and Tinkov, plus his suggestions on how to improve modern cycling. One thing is abundantly clear: the American isn’t going down without a fight. ...

Only a slight edit to the time-worn script. Looks like the adapted version is only missing the parts about the 'witch-hunt' and 'the French hate me'.

Well, maybe the part about loving cancer as well. But that could still be incorporated in the long version.

Dave.

 

[mewmewmew13]

He's trying to remain relevant ..