Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Wiggo's Package]

Re: Re:

It's a matter of the US Government wasting taxpayers money fighting a spurious claim - Shame on the Government.

Dude, the Feds surely came out ahead on this. Not by too much...but ahead.

Correct

Lovin' that the the flat earthers are claiming Lance won. Or that it might be a draw :lol: :lol:

It's cost him $10m+ and has done nothing to salvage his reputation

Move on! :razz:

 

[hrotha]

Re:

It's a matter of the US Government wasting taxpayers money fighting a spurious claim - Shame on the Government.

Did I fall through a time portal? Is this 2012?

 

[hrotha]

Re:

[double post]

 

[aphronesis]

Actually the clear heads in the room are claiming no one won.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

Actually the clear heads in the room are claiming no one won.

But there's gotta be a winner, man. Like with those seven Tour titles - someone must have won them. And this.

NB: for those with poor reading skills, yes, that is sarcasm. How anyone can think anyone actually won here is beyond me.

 

[Scott SoCal]

Re: Re:

Somewhat off topic, but has anyone noticed that the most recent Cycling News Podcast (covering Fleche Wallone, etc...) is brought to you by...Floyds of Leadville. Ya can't make this **** up.

Don't throw shade on my man Floyd. In the years I have known him he has never expressed the expectation of walking away with a jackpot from this. He has always known he would end up with little to nothing for the time, trouble, and trauma. The math with the average whistle blower percentage, the lawyers' cut, the taxes, and the deferred prosecution agreement was pretty simple. It was never about the money.

€1,000,000 isn't bad. I wouldn't pass that up.

His legal fees paid too.

If it wasn't about the money, what was it about?

Legal settlements are not taxed thus a reasonable sum for the time involved. I don’t think it was about the money, it has been 8 years and counting which equates to around $120k per year. That’s not a lot. My experience says Floyd wanted to make a difference to anti-doping and free himself of the burden. He achieved one of those objectives.

Mostly Floyd wanted to leave a 2x4 stuck sideways up LA's backside. Permanently.

Seriously, that LA had to pay Floyd more than a nickel means FL won bigly.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Some Clinic worthy facts.

Lance Armstrong has a net worth of $50 million
Floyd Landis has a net worth of $3 million

LA's worth will take an immediate dip of 10%, Landis's will jump 33%. But now LA is freed up to sign those book and film deals. As is Landis - I'm looking forward to a Hollywood epic about a mennonite who takes up an effete Euro sport, gets caught cheating, gets caught hacking, gets caught picking on a guy who was abused as a kid, and then seeks redemption in the weed business. "Uplifting! Five stars!"

 

[Scott SoCal]

Re:

Some Clinic worthy facts.

Lance Armstrong has a net worth of $50 million
Floyd Landis has a net worth of $3 million

LA's worth will take an immediate dip of 10%, Landis's will jump 33%. But now LA is freed up to sign those book and film deals. As is Landis - I'm looking forward to a Hollywood epic about a mennonite who takes up an effete Euro sport, gets caught cheating, gets caught hacking, gets caught picking on a guy who was abused as a kid, and then seeks redemption in the weed business. "Uplifting! Five stars!"

Net worth is at best a snapshot in time. LA's income potential has been hit awfully hard. Not too long ago he was stating lost endorsements, etc., were in the low 9 figures (accurate or not... we can all agree it has cost him a lot of money).

So LA having to pay anything of what's left to the dude that took that kind of income away from him has got to leave a forever mark.

 

[aphronesis]

Re: Re:

Some Clinic worthy facts.

Lance Armstrong has a net worth of $50 million
Floyd Landis has a net worth of $3 million

LA's worth will take an immediate dip of 10%, Landis's will jump 33%. But now LA is freed up to sign those book and film deals. As is Landis - I'm looking forward to a Hollywood epic about a mennonite who takes up an effete Euro sport, gets caught cheating, gets caught hacking, gets caught picking on a guy who was abused as a kid, and then seeks redemption in the weed business. "Uplifting! Five stars!"

Net worth is at best a snapshot in time. LA's income potential has been hit awfully hard. Not too long ago he was stating lost endorsements, etc., were in the low 9 figures (accurate or not... we can all agree it has cost him a lot of money).

So LA having to pay anything of what's left to the dude that took that kind of income away from him has got to leave a forever mark.

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he’s gained enough introspection to see, as many have noted, that they could have just hired Floyd back and saved all that. So he was the only thing that cost him that. Maybe it all would have broken apart differently. Some people are able to say “if I lost that big” I can still do much more.

Some people don’t sit around rueing and plotting forks in time.

 

[MarkvW]

Re: Re:

Somewhat off topic, but has anyone noticed that the most recent Cycling News Podcast (covering Fleche Wallone, etc...) is brought to you by...Floyds of Leadville. Ya can't make this **** up.

Don't throw shade on my man Floyd. In the years I have known him he has never expressed the expectation of walking away with a jackpot from this. He has always known he would end up with little to nothing for the time, trouble, and trauma. The math with the average whistle blower percentage, the lawyers' cut, the taxes, and the deferred prosecution agreement was pretty simple. It was never about the money.

€1,000,000 isn't bad. I wouldn't pass that up.

His legal fees paid too.

If it wasn't about the money, what was it about?

Legal settlements are not taxed thus a reasonable sum for the time involved. I don’t think it was about the money, it has been 8 years and counting which equates to around $120k per year. That’s not a lot. My experience says Floyd wanted to make a difference to anti-doping and free himself of the burden. He achieved one of those objectives.

Mostly Floyd wanted to leave a 2x4 stuck sideways up LA's backside. Permanently.

Seriously, that LA had to pay Floyd more than a nickel means FL won bigly.

By any objective standard, Floyd was a very clear winner. First, Floyd is getting a lot of money. Second, Lance had to pay it. Third, Lance is always going to remember that ALL of this very expensive catastrophe would have been avoided had he only given Floyd a ride.

This is a good ending, but I would like to have seen Fraud get lot more money. Hopefully he can pay back his victims now!

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

It's a matter of the US Government wasting taxpayers money fighting a spurious claim - Shame on the Government.

Dude, the Feds surely came out ahead on this. Not by too much...but ahead.

Doubt the Fed's get much change from five million - And the context of my post is the USA Govt decided to waste taxpayers money, when other Government Departments/Agencies that sponsor cycling teams have not gone down this route - It says everything about the USA.

 

[Scott SoCal]

Re: Re:

Some Clinic worthy facts.

Lance Armstrong has a net worth of $50 million
Floyd Landis has a net worth of $3 million

LA's worth will take an immediate dip of 10%, Landis's will jump 33%. But now LA is freed up to sign those book and film deals. As is Landis - I'm looking forward to a Hollywood epic about a mennonite who takes up an effete Euro sport, gets caught cheating, gets caught hacking, gets caught picking on a guy who was abused as a kid, and then seeks redemption in the weed business. "Uplifting! Five stars!"

Net worth is at best a snapshot in time. LA's income potential has been hit awfully hard. Not too long ago he was stating lost endorsements, etc., were in the low 9 figures (accurate or not... we can all agree it has cost him a lot of money).

So LA having to pay anything of what's left to the dude that took that kind of income away from him has got to leave a forever mark.

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he’s gained enough introspection to see, as many have noted, that they could have just hired Floyd back and saved all that. So he was the only thing that cost him that. Maybe it all would have broken apart differently. Some people are able to say “if I lost that big” I can still do much more.

Some people don’t sit around rueing and plotting forks in time.

Maybe he’s gained enough introspection

Perhaps. But I very much doubt it.

Somehow I don't see LA changing his stripes all that much.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

Doubt the Fed's get much change from five million

They're not even getting five mil, though, are they? Landis is getting $1.1m, so that leaves the Feds ... give me a moment while I do the math ... less than four mil, right?

(And Landis, he doesn't actually get to keep that $1.1 mil - he still owes the thick end of half a mil to the deluded fools who supported his fairness fund.)

(If the five mil is effectively returning USPS's sponsorship money, then does that mean LA gets to claim a tax deduction on the five mil? Landis won't be paying tax on his portion, that's like Lottery winnings. The rest - is that going to USPS or to who? If USPS, presumably they will have to pay tax on it, if they were able to claim the sponsorship as a deductible. So that still leaves the tax people picking up a portion of the tab here, doesn't it?)

 

[Digger]

Re: Re:

Doubt the Fed's get much change from five million

They're not even getting five mil, though, are they? Landis is getting $1.1m, so that leaves the Feds ... give me a moment while I do the math ... less than four mil, right?

(And Landis, he doesn't actually get to keep that $1.1 mil - he still owes the thick end of half a mil to the deluded fools who supported his fairness fund.)

(If the five mil is effectively returning USPS's sponsorship money, then does that mean LA gets to claim a tax deduction on the five mil? Landis won't be paying tax on his portion, that's like Lottery winnings. The rest - is that going to USPS or to who? If USPS, presumably they will have to pay tax on it, if they were able to claim the sponsorship as a deductible. So that still leaves the tax people picking up a portion of the tab here, doesn't it?)

Wrong........

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Re:

Some Clinic worthy facts.

Lance Armstrong has a net worth of $50 million
Floyd Landis has a net worth of $3 million

LA's worth will take an immediate dip of 10%, Landis's will jump 33%. But now LA is freed up to sign those book and film deals. As is Landis - I'm looking forward to a Hollywood epic about a mennonite who takes up an effete Euro sport, gets caught cheating, gets caught hacking, gets caught picking on a guy who was abused as a kid, and then seeks redemption in the weed business. "Uplifting! Five stars!"

So, we have a winner [up 33%] and a loser [down 10%++] (cos by accident or design you're forgetting about Lance's and Floyd's legal fees ouchy)

Thanks for confirming. The earth is round after all. Phew!

Btw no one is paying either of them for a film deal. Way too many of them already

Move on! They put a fork in Lance

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

Move on!

You keep saying this. If only you would.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Doubt the Fed's get much change from five million

They're not even getting five mil, though, are they? Landis is getting $1.1m, so that leaves the Feds ... give me a moment while I do the math ... less than four mil, right?

(And Landis, he doesn't actually get to keep that $1.1 mil - he still owes the thick end of half a mil to the deluded fools who supported his fairness fund.)

(If the five mil is effectively returning USPS's sponsorship money, then does that mean LA gets to claim a tax deduction on the five mil? Landis won't be paying tax on his portion, that's like Lottery winnings. The rest - is that going to USPS or to who? If USPS, presumably they will have to pay tax on it, if they were able to claim the sponsorship as a deductible. So that still leaves the tax people picking up a portion of the tab here, doesn't it?)

Landis took on the biggest cycling star and promotion machine in the world and won, has a thriving business, travels the country and places value in areas that are not monetary based. If that’s your measure then...... well, I guess he’s doing a little better than a book reviewer

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Re: Re:

With BD here, we just miss TFF.

If this doesn't get Chewy out of retirement nothing will. Same with Race Radio.

True

Here is my 2 cents:

1. I feel nothing but disinterest for Armstrong. My assessment is that he's a narcissist, who likely has as much contempt for his sycophants here, as he does his detractors. He isn't someone I'd trust, because he believes his on inner dialogue, and I don't like how he expresses it in action or word. At the same time, as Longfellow wrote, “If we could read the secret history of our enemies, we should find in each man’s life sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostility.”

2. Lance didn't create doping in sports, and he certainly didn't end it. Those guys from the island that is the heart of the Empire, ALMOST perfected it...AL.MOST. News Flash!!!: Cycling still has doping...

3. I've gotten to know Betsy over the last few years, as well as you can get to know someone from online conversations. She is a principled and passionate person. We do not agree on a lot of topics, but she is honest, and in my estimation is the type of person you can trust. I would think that her detractors here would feel differently if they stood in her shoes, but burn her for being in the hospital room, if that's what you need to do.

4. In my estimation, Floyd is the type of person I trust, from what I've seen. Sure, some dodgy s**t might go down, but he seems like the type of person who doesn't hide who he actually is, and I trust people like that as much as I can trust them...which depends on how dodgy they are, but as long as you're not pretending to be someone else, at least I know where you stand. Plus, you can never take away that morning I sat and read his posting of the letter to the UCI. I kept saying over, and over, "HOLY S**T!! HOLY S**T!!!" It was a great day that...a great day.

5. Whoever is the last person out of this thread, make sure to lock-up, and turn off the lights. I can't see why anyone would want to visit this museum of horses**t after this, and conservation of energy is vital to a sustainable planet...

Nice to see everyone.

 

[Alpe73]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

Eight to 12 hrs of lag time .... that’a about right. The amount of time for the haters to deal with their disgust, put on a brave face ... and try to put a winning spin on their utter disappointment.

Like someone who’s lost an election .... really bad feeling in the gut, urged on by supporters looking for a bit of solace in numbers.

Recount! Drowning man waving at a ship who doesn’t see him.

Reality is ... the haters lost. Why? Greed. So *** ironic.

Lifetime ban wasn’t enough, disgrace wasn’t enough, casting Armstrong as the devil wasn’t enough. They wanted to see him scorched, destroyed, totally humiliated ... impoverished.

Greed doesn’t pay, “12”. Now suck it up.

 

[DamianoMachiavelli]

Re:

Exactly what would her testifying again have achieved for her? How could this time possibly have brought her closure. He won't apologise or acknowledge the hospital room happened. We all know it did happen. But I don't know where she will find peace in all this. Testifying in this case, had it gone to trial wasn't going to bring it. We all believe her.
However as the years have gone by this isn't black and white. I went from being a big Betsy supporter to growing uneasy.

Yup. After a while it became obvious that the only thing she was interested in is continuing her feud with Lance, the truth be damned. I thought the low point might be her spreading rumors of Lance using a motor, but it appears there is a long way still to fall before hitting bottom. Her latest salvo is complaining about Lance using the word "wife" to refer to the woman he has lived with for a decade, mother of his children and fiance. To her using the word wife instead of girlfriend is proof he is still liar and is worthy of ranting about on the web. This goes beyond obsessed to unhinged.

It is cosmic irony that the supposed bad guys in this affair gained some level of self awareness while the supposed good guys have spiraled ever deeper into the abyss.

 

[Scott SoCal]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

Eight to 12 hrs of lag time .... that’a about right. The amount of time for the haters to deal with their disgust, put on a brave face ... and try to put a winning spin on their utter disappointment.

Like someone who’s lost an election .... really bad feeling in the gut, urged on by supporters looking for a bit of solace in numbers.

Recount! Drowning man waving at a ship who doesn’t see him.

Reality is ... the haters lost. Why? Greed. So **** ironic.

Lifetime ban wasn’t enough, disgrace wasn’t enough, casting Armstrong as the devil wasn’t enough. They wanted to see him scorched, destroyed, totally humiliated ... impoverished.

Greed doesn’t pay, “12”. Now suck it up.

+0

Na na na na na isn’t gonna work, bro. LA’s career path went to sh*t and LA fans are gonna have to live with it. If the victory dance includes the loss of hundreds of millions in income then I’m not real sure what the celebration is about.

Of course there’s more to life than money... but if one keeps score then it’s a bit difficult to say LA wins.

Spin at will and to each his own, of course.

 

[Scott SoCal]

Re: Re:

Exactly what would her testifying again have achieved for her? How could this time possibly have brought her closure. He won't apologise or acknowledge the hospital room happened. We all know it did happen. But I don't know where she will find peace in all this. Testifying in this case, had it gone to trial wasn't going to bring it. We all believe her.
However as the years have gone by this isn't black and white. I went from being a big Betsy supporter to growing uneasy.

Yup. After a while it became obvious that the only thing she was interested in is continuing her feud with Lance, the truth be damned. I thought the low point might be her spreading rumors of Lance using a motor, but it appears there is a long way still to fall before hitting bottom. Her latest salvo is complaining about Lance using the word "wife" to refer to the woman he has lived with for a decade, mother of his children and fiance. To her using the word wife instead of girlfriend is proof he is still liar and is worthy of ranting about on the web. This goes beyond obsessed to unhinged.

It is cosmic irony that the supposed bad guys in this affair gained some level of self awareness while the supposed good guys have spiraled ever deeper into the abyss.

LA and self awareness don’t belong in the same sentence.

Floyd on the other hand is about as weirdly down to earth as it gets.

OTOH, the real worst guys from the era are either dead or (mostly) out of the sport. And I sincerely doubt if any had or have had the light suddenly switch ‘on.’ Del Moral may be a recent possible exception.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

Eight to 12 hrs of lag time .... that’a about right. The amount of time for the haters to deal with their disgust, put on a brave face ... and try to put a winning spin on their utter disappointment.

Like someone who’s lost an election .... really bad feeling in the gut, urged on by supporters looking for a bit of solace in numbers.

Recount! Drowning man waving at a ship who doesn’t see him.

Reality is ... the haters lost. Why? Greed. So **** ironic.

Lifetime ban wasn’t enough, disgrace wasn’t enough, casting Armstrong as the devil wasn’t enough. They wanted to see him scorched, destroyed, totally humiliated ... impoverished.

Greed doesn’t pay, “12”. Now suck it up.

Mmmmm, salty!!!

 

[Alpe73]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

Eight to 12 hrs of lag time .... that’a about right. The amount of time for the haters to deal with their disgust, put on a brave face ... and try to put a winning spin on their utter disappointment.

Like someone who’s lost an election .... really bad feeling in the gut, urged on by supporters looking for a bit of solace in numbers.

Recount! Drowning man waving at a ship who doesn’t see him.

Reality is ... the haters lost. Why? Greed. So **** ironic.

Lifetime ban wasn’t enough, disgrace wasn’t enough, casting Armstrong as the devil wasn’t enough. They wanted to see him scorched, destroyed, totally humiliated ... impoverished.

Greed doesn’t pay, “12”. Now suck it up.

+0

Na na na na na isn’t gonna work, bro. LA’s career path went to sh*t and LA fans are gonna have to live with it. If the victory dance includes the loss of hundreds of millions in income then I’m not real sure what the celebration is about.

Of course there’s more to life than money... but if one keeps score then it’s a bit difficult to say LA wins.

Spin at will and to each his own, of course.

Mine is not a "Na na na na na" dance, brutha. Not about Floyd. Not about $, either.

About people, outside the sphere of involvement, trying to burn a guy at the stake via social media ... your shiv of choice ... for what? Whatever it was ... was pathologically beyond sports banter.

He weathered it all. Tough SOB.

Keeping score? In that regards ... *** rights.

 

[Koronin]

My thoughts on this:
I'm not really sure there are any actual winners in this. Looser, yep, but not winners.
I also doubt either Lance or Floyd will go away either. I'm sure that's asking too much.
I also don't think we really learned anything new from any of this either.