Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Zweistein]

Yeah last we heard he refused to take his "apology" call.

A full confession that could be used to clean up the sport is the only thing that ,in my opinion, would be taken by those wronged as an apology. Anything less is PR and not real repentance for what was done.

 

[D-Queued]

Betsy association = Husband admitting doping

Lemond association = death of a team mate possibly caused from experimental doping back in the 80's.

JV = confession to doping.

Let's see.

I knew someone who was busted for coke and committed suicide while in detention awaiting trial.

Does this mean that I have used coke, attempted suicide or been in jail?

Perhaps closer to the C-Shield, I know people that have died from breast cancer. Does that mean I have had it?

Your intent is obvious. Smear, smear and smear.

Dave.

 

[hiero2]

Let's see.

I knew someone who was busted for coke and committed suicide while in detention awaiting trial.

Does this mean that I have used coke, attempted suicide or been in jail?

Perhaps closer to the C-Shield, I know people that have died from breast cancer. Does that mean I have had it?

Your intent is obvious. Smear, smear and smear.

Dave.

Dave, with all due respect, horsin has clearly stated that he (horsin) is not trying to smear Lemond, and is not saying that Lemond doped. I know horsin can defend himself, so I'm leaving your post - but this is thin ice. And given Lemond's own testimony, we know that, today, Lemond knows about doping and doping techniques. Lemond also says he didn't know this stuff back in the early 90's, when it was first entering the peloton. Your last sentence, in particular, is inflammatory, and if the flames grow, I will come back and start deleting posts and doing all that. Don't try and make this something it isn't.

 

[86TDFWinner]

I think I heard Lemond discuss it on a video, but only in contxt of LA having been invited to the Texas conference. This is most likely where I drew my inference from.

I'm pretty sure that Dr Masarati and his famous counter intuition is correct on this one, that the university actually invited LA. He turned it down anyway, which just shows you what sort of person LA is, as if we need reminding.

This still doesn't explain where you got this crazy notion where you think Lemond doped though. So again, please explain how you came to this conclusion and please provide factual proof to back it up.

 

[86TDFWinner]

I think I heard Lemond discuss it on a video, but only in contxt of LA having been invited to the Texas conference. This is most likely where I drew my inference from.

.

And where is this video you claimed to have seen, please post it so we can see it too.

 

[ElChingon]

A full confession that could be used to clean up the sport is the only thing that ,in my opinion, would be taken by those wronged as an apology. Anything less is PR and not real repentance for what was done.

I think hiding under a rock from here on out is the only solution for him. Anything else is just feeding his ego, even bad press is helping him continue the charade, anyone wanting more is just as bad as he is, there is nothing he could say at this point that's going to help other than to feed the trolls of society. And this forum.

 

[hiero2]

And where is this video you claimed to have seen, please post it so we can see it too.

Actually, I believe I have seen a video of Greg speaking about his conference/seminar/speech thingy at the univ. And Greg saying that LA was invited to same- but I can't find it at the moment. I'm sure I could - but it would take hours of searching - and since this is a rather off-topic point - I don't SEE the point. So I ain't gonna spend hours searching through all the Greg Lemond stuff I've visited in the past months. You'll just have to take my word for it, and if that ain't good enuff, aw shucks. If somebody else wants to do that search - it is no skin off my nose. Meanwhile, back at the ranch . . .

Horsin can defend horsin, but afaic, this side-show topic drift has worn thin. Again - let's not make this conversation into something it isn't - namely a fight. Keep it civil and stay on topic.

 

[Zweistein]

I think hiding under a rock from here on out is the only solution for him. Anything else is just feeding his ego, even bad press is helping him continue the charade, anyone wanting more is just as bad as he is, there is nothing he could say at this point that's going to help other than to feed the trolls of society. And this forum.

Bad press feeding his ego? Apparently, you haven't watched him in anything after this mess broke. All of his bravado is gone. Watch the Livestrong party and the Oprah interview.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Actually, I believe I have seen a video of Greg speaking about his conference/seminar/speech thingy at the univ. And Greg saying that LA was invited to same- but I can't find it at the moment. I'm sure I could - but it would take hours of searching - and since this is a rather off-topic point - I don't SEE the point. So I ain't gonna spend hours searching through all the Greg Lemond stuff I've visited in the past months. You'll just have to take my word for it, and if that ain't good enuff, aw shucks. If somebody else wants to do that search - it is no skin off my nose. Meanwhile, back at the ranch . . .

Horsin can defend horsin, but afaic, this side-show topic drift has worn thin. Again - let's not make this conversation into something it isn't - namely a fight. Keep it civil and stay on topic.

I was keeping it civil, where wasn't I? I simply asked this gentlemen to post what he claimed, so we can all see it.

I don't think there is a video of Greg "inviting" Lance recently to any speaking events, which the poster claimed he did. I was just trying to see the video. I could be wrong.

It was about Wonderboy, and posted in a thread about Wonderboy, so I don't understand how it could be ",off topic", please explain how asking for a video is considered off topic?

 

[horsinabout]

In line with Hero2's comment, I saw a video with Lemond talking about an Armstrong invite, and Lemond was keen to point out that he (LA) had declined to attend. I can't recall Lemond saying that he invited him. Now I have already told you in my posts on this thread quite clearly that on this point Dr Masarati is most likely correct, in that the uni invite LA. And like Hero2 I have invested enough of my precious time on this none subject. I have no interest in looking for the said video.

Lastly, where did my reply to race radio post disappear to. Was it deleted?

You didn't delete glen-wilson's horrible baiting post did you?

 

[86TDFWinner]

I honestly didn't see the post(s)saying you were a woman, my bad. Ive heard of the video in question, yet didn't hear or know that LeMond himself supposedly "invited" Wonderboy to it. He probably could've been invited by the organizers/university of the event or something. I doubt seriously he'd have attended, regardless of who invited him.

Someone (you? As you said in another post in this very thread, YOU "BELIEVED LeMond invited him"-Your words from page 198)seemed to believe it was Greg who sent the invite, I was simply
asking for the link , so we could judge for ourselves.

Oh and I wasn't "baiting" you.

 

[hiero2]

In line with Hero2's comment, I saw a video with Lemond talking about an Armstrong invite, and Lemond was keen to point out that he (LA) had declined to attend. I can't recall Lemond saying that he invited him. Now I have already told you in my posts on this thread quite clearly that on this point Dr Masarati is most likely correct, in that the uni invite LA. And like Hero2 I have invested enough of my precious time on this none subject. I have no interest in looking for the said video.

I have also pointed out on many occasions, that I am a female poster. So I will take the Gentleman narrative to be not just an assumption, but a bait.

Lastly, where did my race radio post disappear to. Was it deleted?

You didn't delete glen-wilson's . . . post did you?

There were a couple of posts that got deleted as they were too far off-topic and inflammatory. One of your replies that was a direct response consequently also got deleted to keep the conversation on track.

I will put in that I think very few of the posters have read enough of your posts to catch the fact that you are female. I will say GW's post was not attempting to provoke argument or create insult (bait) - but honest. I actually think he did a good job of describing the possible outcomes of this conversation. Lemond and Armstrong in the same post is, ahem, controversial.

GW didn't know you are a she - as a matter of fact, I don't think I've ever noticed you tell us that you are female, and I've read quite a few of your posts! Well, now we know, it is Ms. Horsinabout.

 

[horsinabout]

There were a couple of posts that got deleted as they were too far off-topic and inflammatory. One of your replies that was a direct response consequently also got deleted to keep the conversation on track.

I will put in that I think very few of the posters have read enough of your posts to catch the fact that you are female. I will say GW's post was not attempting to provoke argument or create insult (bait) - but honest. I actually think he did a good job of describing the possible outcomes of this conversation. Lemond and Armstrong in the same post is, ahem, controversial.

GW didn't know you are a she - as a matter of fact, I don't think I've ever noticed you tell us that you are female, and I've read quite a few of your posts! Well, now we know, it is Ms. Horsinabout.

The above quote of mine I have deleted because it was out of context as so many of the posts relating to it have been deleted.

I don't think that my post was inflammatory re race radio. Race Radio's was a little forthright. But this is a controversial forum, so what do people expect. I have not expressed an opinion that I am not prepared to stand by.

Re not knowing I was a female poster. To this comment I will remain incredulous. But I will let this one go and take your words for it.

 

[ElChingon]

Re not knowing I was a female poster. To this comment I will remain incredulous. But I will let this one go and take your words for it.

Doesn't that mean he outed you as in providing personal info not known to others? Even if he's wrong he's still crossing the line, as in providing bogus information on a forum member which can lead to all kinds of legal issues we know the forum rules shake their pointy boney finger at.

Either way I will expect good old hiero2 to get some infraction points pronto.

PS: For the record I did not list out if horsinabout was any particular sex type.

 

[hiero2]

Doesn't that mean he outed you as in providing personal info not known to others? Even if he's wrong he's still crossing the line, as in providing bogus information on a forum member which can lead to all kinds of legal issues we know the forum rules shake their pointy boney finger at.

Either way I will expect good old hiero2 to get some infraction points pronto.

PS: For the record I did not list out if horsinabout was any particular sex type.

El? Did you read the prior posts at all? Must not have - how does that egg on your face taste?

 

[hiero2]

Interesting piece about a possible Truth commission/whatever. Controversial viewpoint.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/06/commentary/commentary-lance-armstrong-can-fix-pro-cycling_289564

 

[Fatclimber]

Interesting piece about a possible Truth commission/whatever. Controversial viewpoint.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/06/commentary/commentary-lance-armstrong-can-fix-pro-cycling_289564

Blah. I think they're greatly overestimating what armstrong can bring to the table. A large chunk of the information they think he can provide has already been given by Floyd, Tyler, Willy, Bernard, etc. Funny to hear Vaughters labelled as another potential savior. What's keeping him from talking now?

"Hey, UCI, lets form a T&R commission so I can rat you out and destroy you." Gee, I wonder why that's not gaining any traction.

It would be neat to see the role of certain sponsors in enabling armstrong, but I doubt we'd get the truth about that anyway. That goes for anything that would diminish his own personal achievements. There's no sense in giving Wonderboy any more attention/consideration, he's nothing.

 

[Race Radio]

Interesting piece about a possible Truth commission/whatever. Controversial viewpoint.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/06/commentary/commentary-lance-armstrong-can-fix-pro-cycling_289564

Armstrong did not cause the chaos in cycling all by himself......and he is not the sole fix

 

[horsinabout]

Armstrong did not cause the chaos in cycling all by himself......and he is not the sole fix

This is a controversial article. Let us make LA a hero all over again shall we? What a great idea, give Armstrong a legacy of a "force for good" for the next 100 years. Whilst they are at it, why don't they do a bronze statue of him, in memory of his good work.

I agree with Mark Johnson's, assessment of Vaughters, that he is a pragmatist. JV knows that it is only possible to have a "cleaner" sport rather than a "clean" one.

Back to my critique of the Johnson article. LA could create a "A firestorm of truth", why with his (LA's) "raw courage" just think of what could be achieved?

The system has already used LA, it was the system who created the monster. He has that kind of personality that gets things done, not because of his courage and determination, but because he has a lack of compunction to trample over anyone who gets in his way. Very useful when building an empire.

It was also the system that brought him (LA) down. The efforts of Greg Lemond and Betsy Audreu did not bring down LA. LA was brought down by the system that created him. Not through any overall good of the sport, but because it became uncontrollably dysfunctional.

Now in my view this T&RC is just another ploy by the system to manipulate the future direction of the sport, and to recruit their old friend Armstrong to help them out. And rather sickeningly give LA some sort of positive legacy?

And finally this wonderful comment beats all.......

"Today, opportunity knocks for Armstrong. He can direct that valour toward instigating and honestly participating in a cycling truth and reconciliation commission. It’s a big, hairy, audacious task that will shock and **** off a lot of people— just the type to appeal to Armstrong’s essential character"

I will let the reader ponder over this and make of it what they will. For me it says it all.....more of the same in a different uniform and more opportunities for LA. I think he'll bit both their arms off!.

 

[blackcat]

assessment of Vaughters, that he is a pragmatist. JV knows that it is only possible to have a "cleaner" sport rather than a "clean" one.

see POTUS n DC.

change, can we believe in?



cards heez bin delt.
_________________cleaner, not clean.





iz NORMAL

 

[red_flanders]

Lets not go there, thanks.

 

[Merckx index]

A century after his death in 1902, we don’t remember Cecil Rhodes for this unrepentant racism, his vicious use of the white man’s burden as justification for appropriating vast chunks of Africa (yes, Rhodesia), or the sleazy business betrayals he used to corner the diamond market with his De Beers empire. We think of Rhodes Scholars, those world-changing students who benefit from his legacy of full rides to Oxford University.

Likewise, most don’t picture John D. Rockefeller as the ruthless Standard Oil robber baron who monopolized energy markets. Nor do we think of Rockefeller the vicious union-buster behind 1914’s Ludlow Massacre, when he hired militia to machine-gun striking miners, wives, and children in Colorado. Instead, we know the man reincarnated by the legacy of the Rockefeller foundations, which set the standard for industrial-scale philanthropy and have improved the lives of millions through largesse to medicine and education.

Speak for yourself Mark Johnson. I find it sad if that isn't the way you see those men. People who read real history, instead of the watered down, whitewashed version offered in most schools, know very well what those men did.

 

[horsinabout]

Speak for yourself Mark Johnson. I find it sad if that isn't the way you see those men. People who read real history, instead of the watered down, whitewashed version offered in most schools, know very well what those men did.

MI, thank you, thank you, bow, thank you

 

[86TDFWinner]

Speak for yourself Mark Johnson. I find it sad if that isn't the way you see those men. People who read real history, instead of the watered down, whitewashed version offered in most schools, know very well what those men did.

Ironic that this very same thing can apply to Wonderboy, yet there are STILL people who believe he didn't do anything wrong. Thats just as equally sad.

 

[DirtyWorks]

This is a controversial article. Let us make LA a hero all over again shall we? What a great idea, give Armstrong a legacy of a "force for good" for the next 100 years. Whilst they are at it, why don't they do a bronze statue of him, in memory of his good work.

That rag is the perpetual codpiece of the UCI/USAC. Whoever is left at Velonews wants the myth to be reborn. I had thought they had replaced everyone with interns/college grads, but apparently not. Maybe there's some litmus test regarding Wonderboy prior to working for peanuts over there.

It's too soon Wonderboy. Try it in another 5-10 years. Not many will remember by then.