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Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

Page 150 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Granville57 said:
FFS, this argument has been gaining WAY too much traction lately by people that should, quite frankly, know better. It's not like USADA didn't provide us all with the details behind their decision, ya' know a REASONED DECISION?

It's all right there. There is absolutely no need to employ short-term memory or selective reading when evaluating exactly what actions USADA took against Armstrong and why. IT'S ALL RIGHT THERE!
-----------------

USADA Reasoned Decision
Page 7

II. CHARGES AGAINST LANCE ARMSTRONG

The anti-doping rule violations for which Mr. Armstrong was sanctioned include:

(1) Use and/or attempted use of prohibited substances and/or methods including EPO,
blood transfusions, testosterone, corticosteroids and/or masking agents.
(2) Possession of prohibited substances and/or methods including EPO, blood transfusions and related equipment (such as needles, blood bags, storage containers and other transfusion equipment and blood parameters measuring devices), testosterone, corticosteroids and/or masking agents.15
(3) Trafficking of EPO, testosterone, and/or corticosteroids.
(4) Administration and/or attempted administration to others of EPO, testosterone, 
and/or cortisone.
(5) Assisting, encouraging, aiding, abetting, covering up and other complicity 
involving one or more anti-doping rule violations and/or attempted anti-doping rule violations.
(6) Aggravating circumstances (including multiple rule violations and participated in a sophisticated scheme and conspiracy to dope, encourage and assist others to dope and cover up rule violations) justifying a period of ineligibility greater than the standard sanction.

-----------
Further clarification is provided later in the same document:
-----------

Page 146
VI. EVIDENCE OF ARMSTRONG’S EFFORTS TO SUPPRESS THE TRUTH ABOUT HIS ANTI-DOPING RULE VIOLATIONS

Article 2.8 of the World Anti-Doping Code includes as an anti-doping rule violation, “assisting, encouraging, aiding, abetting, covering up or any other type of complicity involving an anti-doping rule violation or any Attempted anti-doping rule violation.”

Additionally, proof that an athlete “engaged in deceptive or obstructing conduct to avoid the detection or adjudication of an anti-doping rule violation” can be grounds for increasing a sanction. Fraudulent concealment or other efforts to subvert the legal process, such as perjury or witness intimidation can also result in suspension or waiver of the statute of limitations.

Accordingly, in this section USADA discusses some of the evidence of efforts by Armstrong and his entourage to cover up rule violations, suppress the truth, obstruct or subvert the legal process and thereby encourage doping.
---------

The USADA document then provides the specifics behind this reasoning. It's all right there for everyone to read. No mystery. No behavior on the part of USADA that they are not fully entitled to. None.


Allow me to reiterate a few important and pertinent points in all of the above:

"Aggravating circumstances...justifying a period of ineligibility greater than the standard sanction."

"Additionally, proof that an athlete “engaged in deceptive or obstructing conduct to avoid the detection or adjudication of an anti-doping rule violation” can be grounds for increasing a sanction. Fraudulent concealment or other efforts to subvert the legal process, such as perjury or witness intimidation can also result in suspension or waiver of the statute of limitations".







"...can be grounds for increasing a sanction."

Weltz spend most of his life trafficking dope across borders it seems. When will somebody hold the guy accountable?
 
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Get them all or not, scapegoats are so Lee Harvey.

And you really believe that USADA has the resources to to do that? Or anyone for that matter.

If a cop catches one person that speeds, that doesn't make them a scapegoat. Everyone else just happened to be not be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
MonkeyFace said:
And you really believe that USADA has the resources to to do that? Or anyone for that matter.

If a cop catches one person that speeds, that doesn't make them a scapegoat. They just happened to be in the right place and the right time.

lets just say USADA made a mistake with Hesjedal, but there are more low hanging fruit around. No reason to sit back and relax.....
 
Sep 29, 2012
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Merckx index said:
In fact, I would turn around and ask you this question: given an either-or choice, which would you rather see: LA forced to give back all his prize money, to the point where most of his net worth was lost, or his lifetime ban maintained? I would much rather see the former. If that happened, I don't see why anyone here should care if he continued to compete in tris.

I am not sure the question is constructed properly. If LA returned prize money, he would only be returning 1% of his wealth, not 100%.

Most of his wealth came from endorsements, business deals (eg: gold mine in SA with Paul and Phil) and gambling (the insurance premiums). All of which came due to the brand created from his victories. Which came through doping and deals with the UCI management team.

This sporting brand "inertia" is such that I believe he could regenerate a significant / similar amount of wealth, despite the stigma / cloud he is now under, inside 10 years, if given the opportunity to compete again.

So we will have to agree to disagree, and I would say the latter option. Keep your existing, prize-money formed wealth, and stay out of sport.

The first option says, "Dope and get caught, and you might lose material things, but there's nothing to stop you regaining them by continuing to compete".

The second option says, "Dope and get caught, and it's over".
 
Sep 29, 2012
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If I answer the question from the POV of someone who was cheated out of earnings by dopers, ie trying to empathise, I would answer similarly.

LA cheated me out of winnings, through doping, whilst I took the high road and stayed clean. He is now being stripped of those victories, and people are chasing their money to be returned.

It's too late for me to stand on the podium he stole from me, to sign the endorsement deals and be flown off the mountain to tonight's hotel in the race chopper rather than wait with the rest of the plebs in the team bus as we crawl our way down the mountain to our hotel for the night.

Even if he lost nothing of his gains, the sight of him, still competing, still winning, still signing endorsements while I am now a plumber or other "normal" job thanks to my value system, would annoy the living snot out of me. No. Enough is enough. The past is the past, but please, no more of this guy's face in the news / podium pics / sponsorship deals.

No more.
 
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My two cents in the never ending LA saga:
Give the guy a rest. He admitted many times now, he apologized (no matter if it came from the heart or not, it´s still more than many other dopers did), he lost almost all results, he will certainly lose most of his wealth. If he gives information to Wada (or any other appropriate authority) under oath, i think his ban should be reduced to 4, max 8 years. BTW, i think Ricco should also have his ban reduced.
 
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Dear Wiggo said:
If I answer the question from the POV of someone who was cheated out of earnings by dopers, ie trying to empathise, I would answer similarly.

LA cheated me out of winnings, through doping, whilst I took the high road and stayed clean. He is now being stripped of those victories, and people are chasing their money to be returned.

It's too late for me to stand on the podium he stole from me, to sign the endorsement deals and be flown off the mountain to tonight's hotel in the race chopper rather than wait with the rest of the plebs in the team bus as we crawl our way down the mountain to our hotel for the night.

Even if he lost nothing of his gains, the sight of him, still competing, still winning, still signing endorsements while I am now a plumber or other "normal" job thanks to my value system, would annoy the living snot out of me. No. Enough is enough. The past is the past, but please, no more of this guy's face in the news / podium pics / sponsorship deals.

No more.
but should guys like hincapie and vdv be allowed to organize paid cycling clinics and live off the fame achieved through repentless doping? Their near-impunity would grieve me just as much as, or perhaps even more than, the prospect of the eternally disgraced lance racing again in 8 or 12 years.
or take hesjedal. If i had ever raced clean against him in the early 00s, i,d be furious to see him walk with that giro trophee and a fat contract.
 
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sniper said:
but should guys like hincapie and vdv be allowed to organize paid cycling clinics and live off the fame achieved through repentless doping? Their near-impunity would grieve me just as much as, or perhaps even more than, the prospect of the eternally disgraced lance racing again in 8 or 12 years.
or take hesjedal. If i had ever raced clean against him in the early 00s, i,d be furious to see him walk with that giro trophee and a fat contract.

zachary, couldn't agree more. and said as much a few pages back.
 
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MonkeyFace said:
And you really believe that USADA has the resources to to do that? Or anyone for that matter.

If a cop catches one person that speeds, that doesn't make them a scapegoat. Everyone else just happened to be not be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I believe Usada/the Feds have used a tunnel vision to get the capo di capi. When we take the list Granville posted:


(1) Use and/or attempted use of prohibited substances and/or methods including EPO,
blood transfusions, testosterone, corticosteroids and/or masking agents.
(2) Possession of prohibited substances and/or methods including EPO, blood transfusions and related equipment (such as needles, blood bags, storage containers and other transfusion equipment and blood parameters measuring devices), testosterone, corticosteroids and/or masking agents.15
(3) Trafficking of EPO, testosterone, and/or corticosteroids.
(4) Administration and/or attempted administration to others of EPO, testosterone, 
and/or cortisone.
(5) Assisting, encouraging, aiding, abetting, covering up and other complicity 
involving one or more anti-doping rule violations and/or attempted anti-doping rule violations.
(6) Aggravating circumstances (including multiple rule violations and participated in a sophisticated scheme and conspiracy to dope, encourage and assist others to dope and cov
er up rule violations) justifying a period of ineligibility greater than the standard sanction.

I do think all the other riders are guilty of point 1 to 5. Subsequently getting a six months vacation in the off season is not a reasonable decision in my book. Giving someone a lifetime ban for being the best doper out there is disproportionate, at least to me.

Look at that affadavit of Tom Danielson, just laughable. It is a small step from Danielson to Rick Crawford to Garmin's junior team.
Interesting bio:
http://wp.tomdanielson.com/bio
The next year Tom raced elite and headed off to Colorado to attend Fort Lewis College in Durango, and to pursue his career in off-road racing. Three years of mediocre results saw Tom’s career on the mountain bike stagnating.
It is no secret who was 'the coach' there.

Good thing Johnny Vague did not know of Crawfords' reputation while leaving his youngsters under his care.
 
Granville57 said:
"...can be grounds for increasing a sanction."


The entire issue here I see with USADA etc...is they are a private/quasi government organization, that has ZERO criminal enforcement and power.

Hence, Tygart can gain his claim to fame, put the big bad Armstrong away, they can whine/cry like little babies protected by the Feds, and when they don't get their way (Armstrong not willing to talk unless he is given a fair shake), they say...Sorry....you are banned for life...because we have "discretion" to do whatever we want.

The whistler blower thing is going nowhere. Just like the Feds case went nowhere...why? As I said before, they can't prove anything in these type of cases, nor have they with any sport in the past to get a criminal penalty against anyone.

The best they've done is get people for lying under oath/grand jury, and they get put away for that.

Marion Jones...she finally just came out and admitted she lied, so they sent her to prison. They didn't get her on drug use, because she passed them all. Same for Lance. Except the cortisone thing and a 1 time supposed EPO positive, but that is shady at best. Barry Bonds etc..the list goes on and on of the government getting involved is crap they don't need to be involved with.

For once with this entire doping thing, I agree with Lance and many others, this ridiculous "fall guy" mentality of USADA/Tygart is so misguided and has/will accomplish nothing regarding the real issues of the past.

Truth/Reconciliation is the only way. Guys can get a pass, short suspension and move on. The problem with that, all of these teams, like Sky, felt under the gun to put in place agreements with staff, many having shady histories, and they signed it saying they never did anything, when many did. Or they didn't sign and move on to something else in life. So they can never come out and tell their story and get past it. They will lose their livelihood from things they did 10-15yrs ago if they signed it and hope the truth isn't revealed. How is this going to fix anything? It won't, it continues the cycle.

Stupid knee-jerk reaction by a bunch of yahoo, impulsive people creating the mess we have how. Most involved in it since the start of wide EPO usage, now trying to act like they are the saviors.
 
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FoxxyBrown1111 said:
My two cents in the never ending LA saga:
Give the guy a rest. He admitted many times now, he apologized (no matter if it came from the heart or not, it´s still more than many other dopers did), he lost almost all results, he will certainly lose most of his wealth. If he gives information to Wada (or any other appropriate authority) under oath, i think his ban should be reduced to 4, max 8 years. BTW, i think Ricco should also have his ban reduced.
Technically speaking, Lance has lost nothing, he cannot "lost" something that he had gotten by illegal means.
Fisrt he has to finish to repay people, then it will be time to speak of ban reduction if full cooperation.
 
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zigmeister said:
The entire issue here I see with USADA etc...is they are a private/quasi government organization, that has ZERO criminal enforcement and power.

Hence, Tygart can gain his claim to fame, put the big bad Armstrong away, they can whine/cry like little babies protected by the Feds, and when they don't get their way (Armstrong not willing to talk unless he is given a fair shake), they say...Sorry....you are banned for life...because we have "discretion" to do whatever we want.

The whistler blower thing is going nowhere. Just like the Feds case went nowhere...why? As I said before, they can't prove anything in these type of cases, nor have they with any sport in the past to get a criminal penalty against anyone.

The best they've done is get people for lying under oath/grand jury, and they get put away for that.

Marion Jones...she finally just came out and admitted she lied, so they sent her to prison. They didn't get her on drug use, because she passed them all. Same for Lance. Except the cortisone thing and a 1 time supposed EPO positive, but that is shady at best. Barry Bonds etc..the list goes on and on of the government getting involved is crap they don't need to be involved with.

For once with this entire doping thing, I agree with Lance and many others, this ridiculous "fall guy" mentality of USADA/Tygart is so misguided and has/will accomplish nothing regarding the real issues of the past.

Truth/Reconciliation. Guys get a pass...the problem here, all of these teams, like Sky, felt under the gun to put in place agreements with staff, many having shady histories, and they signed it saying they never did anything. So they can never come out and tell their story and get past it. They will lose their livelihood from things they did 10-15yrs ago. Stupid knee-jerk reaction by a bunch of yahoo, impulsive people creating the mess we have how.

Wow, someone is still wearing their yellow wrist band. Armstrong and fairness??? What planet is that from, oh yeah, Planet Armstrong where unless everything is in Armstrong's favour it is not fair.

Armstrong was invited like every other particicpant in the 'reasoned decision' to participate. He told them to F**k off. Now he is crying because he is got exactly what he deserved and with more coming down the line he thinks Sh!t this is gonna cost me all my ill gotten gains and maybe more! AAAAARRRRRGGGHHH cry whinge cry whinge cry whinge.

Remember Armstrong went to talk to Oprah, not USADA, not WADA, not the Feds, he went to a celebrity hoping she would wave her magic wand and make it all go away. hahahahahahahahahahahahaha, even that backfired, cos Oprah aint stoopid like the Texan MonkeyMouth is.

Gonna be great when MonkeyMouth takes the stand, boy i hope they televise that one, watching him squirm will be a small payback to all those he screwed over.

It is quite funny watching MonkeyMouth try and talk to those who will get his 'message across' about his 'death penalty' and all he has to do is call Tygart but he wont. Just tells you how far the idiot is gonna fall before he realises he f**ked up.

The idea that he calls it a 'death penalty' is pathetic and shows how immoral he is.
 
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Dear Wiggo said:
Because despite the opinions of some, I am not a complete and utter frigging moron.

But you seem to be lacking in comprehension skills of Hill's point.

Let's say you are stronger than me clean in the pre-EPO era. Let's say that I take anabolics, coritizone, etc. that enables me to become as strong or stronger than you. Not too far of a stretch in that day and age with no OOC testing, no internet and hyper outrage outlet, journalists looking the other way.

Would those PEDs be a game changer?
 
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Benotti69 said:
The idea that he calls it a 'death penalty' is pathetic and shows how immoral he is.

This is it - it's like the guy never had cancer at all. I guess Lancey-poo never actually stared death in the face and challenged him to an arm wrestle after all.
 
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zigmeister said:
The entire issue here I see with USADA etc...is they are a private/quasi government organization, that has ZERO criminal enforcement and power.

Hence, Tygart can gain his claim to fame, put the big bad Armstrong away, they can whine/cry like little babies protected by the Feds, and when they don't get their way (Armstrong not willing to talk unless he is given a fair shake), they say...Sorry....you are banned for life...because we have "discretion" to do whatever we want.

The whistler blower thing is going nowhere. Just like the Feds case went nowhere...why? As I said before, they can't prove anything in these type of cases, nor have they with any sport in the past to get a criminal penalty against anyone.

The best they've done is get people for lying under oath/grand jury, and they get put away for that.

Marion Jones...she finally just came out and admitted she lied, so they sent her to prison. They didn't get her on drug use, because she passed them all. Same for Lance. Except the cortisone thing and a 1 time supposed EPO positive, but that is shady at best. Barry Bonds etc..the list goes on and on of the government getting involved is crap they don't need to be involved with.

For once with this entire doping thing, I agree with Lance and many others, this ridiculous "fall guy" mentality of USADA/Tygart is so misguided and has/will accomplish nothing regarding the real issues of the past.

Truth/Reconciliation is the only way. Guys can get a pass, short suspension and move on. The problem with that, all of these teams, like Sky, felt under the gun to put in place agreements with staff, many having shady histories, and they signed it saying they never did anything, when many did. Or they didn't sign and move on to something else in life. So they can never come out and tell their story and get past it. They will lose their livelihood from things they did 10-15yrs ago if they signed it and hope the truth isn't revealed. How is this going to fix anything? It won't, it continues the cycle.

Stupid knee-jerk reaction by a bunch of yahoo, impulsive people creating the mess we have how. Most involved in it since the start of wide EPO usage, now trying to act like they are the saviors.

Don't make stuff up.

Marion Jones went to prison for check fraud, nothing to do with sport.

1 time supposed EPO positive? Please.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/spo...armstrongs-b-samples-to-us-investigators.html

http://velonews.competitor.com/2005...rmstrong-samples-show-epo-use-in-99-tour_8740

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...-drugs-times-1999-Tour-France-UCI-admits.html

"This data is fully consistent with blood manipulation including EPO use and/or blood transfusions,"

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i...nvict-cheater-article-1.1113450#ixzz2kpmBCfvs

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i...ood-attempt-convict-cheater-article-1.1113450

The whistleblower case is going nowhere? How come Armstrong lawyer Herman was trying to get the federal whistleblower case dismissed in exchange for cooperation? There is so much stuff coming out of the wood work now that Armstrong's team has to accuse USADA of leaking information to get chance to see what they have because they are afraid they are going get get ambushed by a mountain of evidence.


Truth and reconciliation? A 6 month suspension in the offseason is pretty damn close to that already and look how many teeth you have to pull to get anything.
 
MonkeyFace said:
Don't make stuff up.

Marion Jones went to prison for check fraud, nothing to do with sport.

1 time supposed EPO positive? Please.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/spo...armstrongs-b-samples-to-us-investigators.html

http://velonews.competitor.com/2005...rmstrong-samples-show-epo-use-in-99-tour_8740

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...-drugs-times-1999-Tour-France-UCI-admits.html

"This data is fully consistent with blood manipulation including EPO use and/or blood transfusions,"

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i...nvict-cheater-article-1.1113450#ixzz2kpmBCfvs

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i...ood-attempt-convict-cheater-article-1.1113450

The whistleblower case is going nowhere? How come Armstrong lawyer Herman was trying to get the federal whistleblower case dismissed in exchange for cooperation? There is so much stuff coming out of the wood work now that Armstrong's team has to accuse USADA of leaking information to get chance to see what they have because they are afraid they are going get get ambushed by a mountain of evidence.


Truth and reconciliation? A 6 month suspension in the offseason is pretty damn close to that already and look how many teeth you have to pull to get anything.

You'd better get your own facts right before you start aggressively sniping other people. Marion Jones went down for check fraud and perjury--the same kind of perjury as Tammy Thomas (lying about her doping).
 
Sep 29, 2012
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ChrisE said:
But you seem to be lacking in comprehension skills of Hill's point.

No, I am not. You, however, have lost objective reasoning, that much is obvious, when it comes to certain riders.

ChrisE said:
Let's say you are stronger than me clean in the pre-EPO era. Let's say that I take anabolics, coritizone, etc. that enables me to become as strong or stronger than you. Not too far of a stretch in that day and age with no OOC testing, no internet and hyper outrage outlet, journalists looking the other way.

Would those PEDs be a game changer?

Hyper outrage outlet? You think I give a toss about Armstrong? Or any other pro cyclist? Good grief. Get a grip.

The fact that you do not understand the difference between oxygen vector doping (EPO) and recovery drugs (Test, Cort) is fine, but don't go telling me I don't understand Hill's point.

If "those PEDs" from Merckx's era were game changers - which IMO is doubtful - they come nowhere near EPO and its partners. They certainly wouldn't put Merckx where he was vs everyone else.

When EPO hit the peloton, we get quotes like this:

When I saw riders with fat asses climbing like airplanes, that’s when I knew,” said Luis Herrera

FYI: journalists don't look the other way now. They write the PR for the dopers instead.
 
Dear Wiggo said:
No, I am not. You, however, have lost objective reasoning, that much is obvious, when it comes to certain riders.



Hyper outrage outlet? You think I give a toss about Armstrong? Or any other pro cyclist? Good grief. Get a grip.

The fact that you do not understand the difference between oxygen vector doping (EPO) and recovery drugs (Test, Cort) is fine, but don't go telling me I don't understand Hill's point.

If "those PEDs" from Merckx's era were game changers - which IMO is doubtful - they come nowhere near EPO and its partners. They certainly wouldn't put Merckx where he was vs everyone else.

When EPO hit the peloton, we get quotes like this:



FYI: journalists don't look the other way now. They write the PR for the dopers instead.

It should be noted that EPO is a recovery drug. It's one of the reasons why modern tour riders can string together excellent days. Surprised you criticize another poster on a topic you don't quite understand.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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MarkvW said:
It should be noted that EPO is a recovery drug. It's one of the reasons why modern tour riders can string together excellent days. Surprised you criticize another poster on a topic you don't quite understand.

I notice you haven't actually explained how it works, or how it helps recovery, MarkW? Simply put me down. A common tactic when attacking another poster when you have nothing to add yourself, as evidenced by JV's posts, so you're learning from the master, chapeau.

Let me help you.

If it is a recovery drug (doubtful), it's a recovery drug that increases your Hemoglobin as much as you want, based on the amount of EPO you take.

NB: So does testosterone, to an extent.

My educated guess is that Test helps recovery more than it helps Hgb production, and the opposite is true for EPO.

EPO takers can string together excellent days because they are riding so much further below threshold (FTP) power than those without the added boost to Hgb. Instead of riding at threshold on the climbs, they are riding below it still. Dawdle along all day and of course you can string together "excellent days". Duh.

It's particularly useful if you have naturally low Hgb, but good efficiency. Increase that Hgb and you are going to reap the benefits far more so than someone with an already naturally high Hgb (but subsequently lower efficiency). (This is the "donkeys to race horses" effect I mentioned.)

EPO is useful for helping stimulate heart muscle growth, which apparently you lose easily when losing weight quickly, like when training with a calorie deficit, but that's hardly going to have the same impact as the Hgb it allows you to maintain as your BV expands, given the riders eat to maintain weight at a GT, or lose as little as possible.

EPO also stimulates the generation of new blood vessels, as well as smooth muscle. Although I am unsure of the usefulness of more smooth muscle, the new blood vessels are going to be very handy for transporting more oxygen around the body.

But please. Tell me I don't know what I am talking about again. Sounds believable when you don't back it up with any actual information yourself.
 
Perhaps epo's greatest benefit is its tested and proven ability to delay time to exhaustion by 50%. There is also huge anecdotal evidence as well, from one day riders specifically known for their inability to recover over three weeks suddenly become GT champions, to reputed clean riders renowned for their ability to recover and be the strongest come the third week suddenly dropping more and more time as the GT progresses. And as the epo doping became perfected the dopers had fewer and fewer bad days and did not have to worry as much about conserving energy from day to day, while clean riders lasted fewer and fewer days, often abandoning well before the end.
 
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zigmeister said:
The entire issue here I see with USADA etc...is they are a private/quasi government organization, that has ZERO criminal enforcement and power.
...snip...
For once with this entire doping thing, I agree with Lance and many others, this ridiculous "fall guy" mentality of USADA/Tygart is so misguided and has/will accomplish nothing regarding the real issues of the past.
...

Rider A dopes, rider B doesn't:
A get's $fame & $glory, B get's out and can't complain.
First world problem, right? The unfair treatment of B is not an issue since A is winning on a level field ;)

Rider A and also-ran rider C are caught and banned:
A get's banned for life, C get's 6 months.
This is major violation of the universal rights of fairness since A was clearly better than C on the level field and cheated fairly. Call in the Human Rights squadron and make sure A get's a reduction while C get's proportionally slapped on the wrist.

Let us all be on the alert for unfair punishment of cheating white male bicycle riders...:rolleyes:
 
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Merckx index said:
... snip
In fact, I would turn around and ask you this question: given an either-or choice, which would you rather see: LA forced to give back all his prize money, to the point where most of his net worth was lost, or his lifetime ban maintained? I would much rather see the former. If that happened, I don't see why anyone here should care if he continued to compete in tris.
I care no end.

Triathlon is (beleive it or not) a real sport under the olympic umbrella. If my child later moves on from (the also olympic) sports of football, swimming and running into triathlon, I sure as sh!t wouldn't want that guy around, highlighted or referenced to in any way, shape or form.

Send him to fake wrestling, body building or ultimate fighting. He'll fit right in...

Now, about the doping issues in those olympic sports, I digress...:rolleyes:
 
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Nicko. said:
I care no end.

Triathlon is (beleive it or not) a real sport under the olympic umbrella. If my child later moves on from (the also olympic) sports of football, swimming and running into triathlon, I sure as sh!t wouldn't want that guy around, highlighted or referenced to in any way, shape or form.

Send him to fake wrestling, body building or ultimate fighting. He'll fit right in...

Now, about the doping issues in those olympic sports, I digress...:rolleyes:

This I would love to see. I wonder how long he'll keep his teeth after he gives some jailbird 'the look'?
 

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